one of you "WE GOTTA LOSE THIS WEEK!" people

[jester43]

please go through the nfl draft history for the past 10-12 years and identify all the top three picks (because remember, we just HAVE TO HAVE A TOP 3 PICK THIS YEAR OR WE'LL NEVER BE GOOD!!) who have proven to be studs and transformed bad teams into good ones. i did notice ryan was taken 3rd by the falcons in '08, so there is one check in your column. but as i scroll back through those lists, i see mostly guys who were drafted by sucky teams who have continued to suck. which supports my view that we don't have to have a top3 pick to turn this team around...what we need is guys who can draft.

 

meanwhile there are as many productive players in the 4-8 spots, where we'll wind up drafting if OMYGOD SHEER AND UTTER DISASTER STRIKES and we win sunday.

 

link:

http://www.nfl.com/draft/history/fulldraft?season=2009&round=round1

 

<edited for content> Beerball

[RuntheDamnBall]

I sort of agree with you but would not be upset if we had Matt Ryan, Jake Long, Calvin Johnson, Sam Bradford, Joe Thomas, or some of those other dudes.

[jester43]

but everyone's point seems to be that we can't possibly improve unless we pick top 3. but the record shows that picking top 3 is not what turns your team around. so we do not gain by losing Sunday. we just lose. again. it's one thing to PREDICT losses by the bills...that is far too easy. it is quite another thing to ROOT FOR THEM out of the misguided belief that it turns your franchise around.

 

what turns your franchise around is seeking out, and paying for, top notch front office talent and then coaches. in that order. unfortunately ralph is neither willing nor able to do this...even if his handpicked yes-men beancounters convinced him this was the smart way to go, he wouldn't know how to hire a good gm anyway. and if he got one by accident he'd run him out of town before he got the job done.

[Dr. Fong]

but everyone's point seems to be that we can't possibly improve unless we pick top 3.

 

Nobody is saying they can't improve if they don't pick top 3, but it doesn't hurt to have a higher pick in each round. I'm indifferent. I say play the youngsters and see what happens, but realistically a win doesn't really do anything for the Bills. A loss gives them a better draft pick.

[Thoner7]

Are you serious? You dont get the point.

 

Every single HOF player, could have been drafted by a top 3 pick. Every stinking one in the history of the draft. Every player that just made this years pro bowl could have been drafted in the top 3 too. Whether the teams drafting in the top 3 were smart enough to draft them is another story, but do not confuse opportunity with execution.

 

I cant control who the Bills pick, but I want them to have the best ***opportunity*** to draft that HOFer, and drafting in the top 3 gives them a better chance to WIN than drafting 8. That, is a fact.

[jester43]

i guess we want different things. you want an infinitesimally greater chance at drafting a hall of famer by having your pick of 2 or 3 more guys per round. call me crazy, but just i want the bills to win.

 

what are you going to be wishing for next year at this time when we're 5-10 and everyone is bitching that our top pick isn't producing? same thing i presume?

 

i'm sure you are good guy...your handle is thoner, which i hope is short for marathoner...in that case we have plenty to talk about...but as a bills fan, ...nothing personal.

 

<edited for content> Beerball

[BillsVet]

The true measure of a team after drafting top 10 is if they return there. Detroit, Cleveland, Cincinnati, and Oakland never seem to rise out of the doldrums and graduate to being playoff teams. And then you look at a team like STL who've drafted high a few years and now are no less that an average team. Their high picks are contributing and have the team winning at least 7 games after 3 years of 3 or less. And yet, DET, CLE, CIN, and BUF are again drafting top 10. So what's the difference? It's that STL made real changes at GM and HC, and got their picks right enough to be what they are. One would hope Buffalo doesn't draft high year after year, certainly for the financial implications, but if they do for 2-3 years, get those picks right far more often.

 

Right now, the question is whether the team will begin hitting on top picks wherever they draft and supplementing that with quality starters in UFA. Recent history suggests they can't do the former and refuse to do the latter.

[KD in CA]

please go through the nfl draft history for the past 10-12 years and identify all the top three picks (because remember, we just HAVE TO HAVE A TOP 3 PICK THIS YEAR OR WE'LL NEVER BE GOOD!!) who have proven to be studs and transformed bad teams into good ones. i did notice ryan was taken 3rd by the falcons in '08, so there is one check in your column. but as i scroll back through those lists, i see mostly guys who were drafted by sucky teams who have continued to suck. which supports my view that we don't have to have a top3 pick to turn this team around...what we need is guys who can draft.

 

meanwhile there are as many productive players in the 4-8 spots, where we'll wind up drafting if OMYGOD SHEER AND UTTER DISASTER STRIKES and we win sunday.

 

link:

http://www.nfl.com/d...09&round=round1

 

 

Settle down, Beavis.

[CosmicBills]

but everyone's point seems to be that we can't possibly improve unless we pick top 3. but the record shows that picking top 3 is not what turns your team around. so we do not gain by losing Sunday. we just lose. again. it's one thing to PREDICT losses by the bills...that is far too easy. it is quite another thing to ROOT FOR THEM out of the misguided belief that it turns your franchise around.

 

what turns your franchise around is seeking out, and paying for, top notch front office talent and then coaches. in that order. unfortunately ralph is neither willing nor able to do this...even if his handpicked yes-men beancounters convinced him this was the smart way to go, he wouldn't know how to hire a good gm anyway. and if he got one by accident he'd run him out of town before he got the job done.

Well actually your outlook is far more bleak and grim. You're essentially saying that this team will never improve until Ralph dies -- since we know that's the only way he's going to give up control. And thus, you just want to win because no matter who the Bills pick in April, the team will still suck and you want to feel good for just one more Sunday.

 

That's way worse than hoping for a loss in a meaningless game. There's nothing that can be improved with a win since momentum does not carry over from season to season. There's no hope for a playoff birth. There's no hope for a winning record. There's no hope for a winning record within the division even. There's NOTHING to be gained by a win for the Bills as an organization this weekend. There's only something for the fans who refuse to see, or perhaps don't care to see, the big picture.

 

Still, your viewpoint is way more grim and far more of a loser mentality. I'm not saying you're wrong. Hell, I think those same thoughts every day. Still, I can't come to grips with it. Apparently you can. You have deemed it impossible for this team to turn a corner even with Ralph at the helm. I haven't. You are seemingly content with a few wins every year, a few glimmers of hope splashed in for good measure. I'm not. See, I just can't admit that it's impossible for this team to turn a corner. With Ralph, even Nix and Modrak -- hell, even with Fitz! There's still hope.

 

Getting SEVEN higher draft picks (or however many total picks we have) provides even more of a foundation for realistic hope than simply winning one meaningless game against the Jets. A rivalry that's more dead than Disco. Yeah, I said that cheesy line in an effort to make a point ... (did you buy that? whew)

 

The fans that want a win on Sunday are short sighted. They are not seeing the forest through the trees. While there's no guarantee that these higher draft picks will improve the long term future of this team, there's a far greater chance of these picks doing just that than there is of a meaningless win at the end of a miserable season. Instead, all a win guarantees is momentary satisfaction for those short sighted fan's. Immediate gratification has its benefits and is certainly a big part of being a fan. But it's fleeting.

 

That doesn't mean I expect the Bills to come out and try to lose on purpose. They won't and shouldn't. The players are playing for their own jobs. Coaches too. There's no way they come out with anything but the best they can muster. And if they win, they win. I won't celebrate it for more than 24 hours because it means nothing in the grand scheme of trying to elevate this proud franchise out of the utter sh*thole it has been mired in for over a decade.

 

So you can keep your grim thoughts. I'll stick with the far more optimistic approach.

 

Go Bills!

[ajzepp]

Are you serious? You dont get the point.

 

Every single HOF player, could have been drafted by a top 3 pick. Every stinking one in the history of the draft. Every player that just made this years pro bowl could have been drafted in the top 3 too. Whether the teams drafting in the top 3 were smart enough to draft them is another story, but do not confuse opportunity with execution.

 

I cant control who the Bills pick, but I want them to have the best ***opportunity*** to draft that HOFer, and drafting in the top 3 gives them a better chance to WIN than drafting 8. That, is a fact.

 

I definitely don't want the team to lose, and I also feel that a higher draft slot doesn't necessarily assure us a better player, but I DO like the fact that we would have just a little more control and flexibility with the draft the higher we pick. There are so many potential defensive studs with first round grades that I would really like to see us keep our first pick and then put some sort of package together to get back into the first round. Sort of like what they did to get McCargo, but this time hopefully making a smarter pick. It also may be smart to try to move back a few spots and pick up another top 30 player that way. I'll be happy as a pig in slop if we hear a name like Dareus or Bowers when the Bills are on the clock. I'm pretty much just rambling now....that is all

[CosmicBills]

I definitely don't want the team to lose, and I also feel that a higher draft slot doesn't necessarily assure us a better player, but I DO like the fact that we would have just a little more control and flexibility with the draft the higher we pick. There are so many potential defensive studs with first round grades that I would really like to see us keep our first pick and then put some sort of package together to get back into the first round. Sort of like what they did to get McCargo, but this time hopefully making a smarter pick. It also may be smart to try to move back a few spots and pick up another top 30 player that way. I'll be happy as a pig in slop if we hear a name like Dareus or Bowers when the Bills are on the clock. I'm pretty much just rambling now....that is all

See? That's why you and I get along AJ. I totally respect that stance. You don't want to actively root for the Bills to lose (nor do I) but you see the benefits if they do lose. That's called being rational. Must mean you need one of these ...

[Albany,n.y.]

Well actually your outlook is far more bleak and grim. You're essentially saying that this team will never improve until Ralph dies -- since we know that's the only way he's going to give up control. And thus, you just want to win because no matter who the Bills pick in April, the team will still suck and you want to feel good for just one more Sunday.

 

That's way worse than hoping for a loss in a meaningless game. There's nothing that can be improved with a win since momentum does not carry over from season to season. There's no hope for a playoff birth. There's no hope for a winning record. There's no hope for a winning record within the division even. There's NOTHING to be gained by a win for the Bills as an organization this weekend. There's only something for the fans who refuse to see, or perhaps don't care to see, the big picture.

 

Still, your viewpoint is way more grim and far more of a loser mentality. I'm not saying you're wrong. Hell, I think those same thoughts every day. Still, I can't come to grips with it. Apparently you can. You have deemed it impossible for this team to turn a corner even with Ralph at the helm. I haven't. You are seemingly content with a few wins every year, a few glimmers of hope splashed in for good measure. I'm not. See, I just can't admit that it's impossible for this team to turn a corner. With Ralph, even Nix and Modrak -- hell, even with Fitz! There's still hope.

 

Getting SEVEN higher draft picks (or however many total picks we have) provides even more of a foundation for realistic hope than simply winning one meaningless game against the Jets. A rivalry that's more dead than Disco. Yeah, I said that cheesy line in an effort to make a point ... (did you buy that? whew)

 

The fans that want a win on Sunday are short sighted. They are not seeing the forest through the trees. While there's no guarantee that these higher draft picks will improve the long term future of this team, there's a far greater chance of these picks doing just that than there is of a meaningless win at the end of a miserable season. Instead, all a win guarantees is momentary satisfaction for those short sighted fan's. Immediate gratification has its benefits and is certainly a big part of being a fan. But it's fleeting.

 

That doesn't mean I expect the Bills to come out and try to lose on purpose. They won't and shouldn't. The players are playing for their own jobs. Coaches too. There's no way they come out with anything but the best they can muster. And if they win, they win. I won't celebrate it for more than 24 hours because it means nothing in the grand scheme of trying to elevate this proud franchise out of the utter sh*thole it has been mired in for over a decade.

 

So you can keep your grim thoughts. I'll stick with the far more optimistic approach.

 

Go Bills!

This is one of the best, if not the best, posts ever on this topic. Sums things up about as perfectly as possible.

Edited December 29, 2010 by Albany,n.y.

[CosmicBills]

This is one of the best, if not the best, posts ever on this topic. Sums things up about as perfectly as possible.

(Bows) Thank you, kind sir.

[ajzepp]

See? That's why you and I get along AJ. I totally respect that stance. You don't want to actively root for the Bills to lose (nor do I) but you see the benefits if they do lose. That's called being rational. Must mean you need one of these ...

 

Right on, brother

 

It's hard for me to not see the benefit in a loss, cause I'm a huge believer in building through the draft. I wanted to see effort and growth this season more than I wanted to see wins. Next season I will have different goals and hopes for this team, but for right now it's all about this upcoming offseason and the draft. We gotta find some PLAYERS, BABY!!!

[RuntheDamnBall]

Losing is for losers. I don't care if the Jets suit up Jenn freaking Sterger out there. I want the Bills to punch them in the mouth and for them to have a hangover going into the playoffs, by virtue of the Bills. I want Jabba and Sanchpoise to lose in their first playoff game and wonder what happened to their momentum.

 

Tanking for draft picks is as reprehensible as betting on your own game. If Gailey goes out there and tells the players it's OK to lose this Sunday, I want him fired the next day. You all should feel the same way. If the Bills really, really want a certain player more than anyone else, and feel that player can help them more than anyone else in this upcoming draft, then they should trade up for him. Otherwise, let the scouts do their jobs and let the team on the field do theirs.

[CosmicBills]

Losing is for losers. I don't care if the Jets suit up Jenn freaking Sterger out there. I want the Bills to punch them in the mouth and for them to have a hangover going into the playoffs, by virtue of the Bills. I want Jabba and Sanchpoise to lose in their first playoff game and wonder what happened to their momentum.

 

Tanking for draft picks is as reprehensible as betting on your own game. If Gailey goes out there and tells the players it's OK to lose this Sunday, I want him fired the next day. You all should feel the same way. If the Bills really, really want a certain player more than anyone else, and feel that player can help them more than anyone else in this upcoming draft, then they should trade up for him. Otherwise, let the scouts do their jobs and let the team on the field do theirs.

Your missing the point. No one is saying the players should tank. The players would never tank because they're playing for their own jobs. Their family's food. They have to go out and play hard and they will. Nothing can be done about that. Nor should it.

 

But that doesn't mean, in this instance, that a win helps with the bigger goal. The team goal. Namely, helping the Buffalo Bills out of their playoff slumber. In fact, very good arguments have been made that a win in this particular instance could potentially hurt said goal.

 

I'm not saying that you should root for the team to lose. But I am saying that any rational person can clearly see that the only ones who benefit from a Bills win are the fans who crave nothing more than instant gratification because "it's the Jets! They're our rival! blah blah ...". 'Cause truth is, that is all bs anyway. The players don't care about this "rivalry", the nation doesn't care about this rivalry, hell the Jets don't even consider it a rivalry because this organization has been a cellar dweller for a DECADE.

 

The only way to change that is to build a team that can compete for more than a 7 win season. We need to build a team that can seriously contend for the AFC East year in and year out. Like the Pats. Like the Steelers. Like the Colts. Like the Ravens. Like the (bad year to use them) Chargers. And while the draft isn't the only way, nor is it even a guaranteed way, to build the team -- it certainly improves your odds if you have 7 higher draft picks. At least more than winning the last game of the season to bring your record up to 5-11.

 

But go on believing that this rivalry means anything to anyone BUT the Bills fans. The players don't see it as a rivalry. The Coaches don't. Jets fans don't. The list goes on ...

 

GO BILLS!

[Trader]

Are you serious? You dont get the point.

 

Every single HOF player, could have been drafted by a top 3 pick. Every stinking one in the history of the draft. Every player that just made this years pro bowl could have been drafted in the top 3 too. Whether the teams drafting in the top 3 were smart enough to draft them is another story, but do not confuse opportunity with execution.

 

I cant control who the Bills pick, but I want them to have the best ***opportunity*** to draft that HOFer, and drafting in the top 3 gives them a better chance to WIN than drafting 8. That, is a fact.

I agree completely. I don't get it either. The quick shot of adrenilin they get from a win soon passes and the Bills remain the pathetic collection of embarrasing doormats they have been for the decade. They don't get that draft position is more then the first round it's improved draft position in All SEVEN rounds. I love the draft and I have followed it for twenty years. It really galls me when the player we need is drafted one or two spots ahead of the one I want.

[Metal Man]

You guys make it seem like hoping for something to happen is actually going to make it happen.

 

How about you root for the Bills and just let things fall the way they will because regardless of who you want to win that is how it is going to work. The Bills could win and still be drafting top 5 if some other lowly teams pull off some upsets too.

 

Way too much energy is wasted arguing about this. When the season is over it is going to be a lot more important how we draft instead of where we draft.

[1billsfan]

please go through the nfl draft history for the past 10-12 years and identify all the top three picks (because remember, we just HAVE TO HAVE A TOP 3 PICK THIS YEAR OR WE'LL NEVER BE GOOD!!) who have proven to be studs and transformed bad teams into good ones. i did notice ryan was taken 3rd by the falcons in '08, so there is one check in your column. but as i scroll back through those lists, i see mostly guys who were drafted by sucky teams who have continued to suck. which supports my view that we don't have to have a top3 pick to turn this team around...what we need is guys who can draft.

 

meanwhile there are as many productive players in the 4-8 spots, where we'll wind up drafting if OMYGOD SHEER AND UTTER DISASTER STRIKES and we win sunday.

 

link:

http://www.nfl.com/draft/history/fulldraft?season=2009&round=round1

 

<edited for content> Beerball

 

My problem isn't with winning this game, it's with playing their starters vs backups in a vain and patronizing attempt to show improvement to fans. The Colts win last season was meaningless. Just like a Jet win vs their backups will be meaningless. Well maybe not meaningless, do you remember the name Patrick Willis?

 

If the Bills do play their starters against the Jets' JV and win, I want to hear from you on draft day when guys like Fairley, Bowers and Dareus all go off the board before the Bills pick and we end up with the 5th rated defensive player in the draft.

 

I'm going to this game and all I want to see is the Bills not try to pull another "Hey, look stupid Bills fans, we beat THE COLTS!" type of win. They should play it the way the Jets play it, it's their call. Whoever does play in it should play the game to win be it the varsity or JV.

[KRT88]

please go through the nfl draft history for the past 10-12 years and identify all the top three picks (because remember, we just HAVE TO HAVE A TOP 3 PICK THIS YEAR OR WE'LL NEVER BE GOOD!!) who have proven to be studs and transformed bad teams into good ones. i did notice ryan was taken 3rd by the falcons in '08, so there is one check in your column. but as i scroll back through those lists, i see mostly guys who were drafted by sucky teams who have continued to suck. which supports my view that we don't have to have a top3 pick to turn this team around...what we need is guys who can draft.

 

meanwhile there are as many productive players in the 4-8 spots, where we'll wind up drafting if OMYGOD SHEER AND UTTER DISASTER STRIKES and we win sunday.

 

link:

http://www.nfl.com/draft/history/fulldraft?season=2009&round=round1

 

<edited for content> Beerball

 

 

wel normally I'd agree but all the experts say that with the new CBA coming, a rookie wage scale will be in place, this would put the Bills in a great position to trade the pick and collect extra picks. The higher you pick, the more likely you are get a kings randsom for the traded pick. Of couse, that assumes the Bills brass would be smart enough to deal the pick and we all know how smartly they work the draft, based on past results.