Real Sports Journalist or Internet Poster

[Bills99999]

I have noticed some of you guys would make pretty good sports writers, but some of you guys are idiots who spew that which has already been spewed?

 

Why is it that some guys get to make a living at it, while others just post on forums?

 

I went to high school and played football with Leo Roth who writes for the Rochester D&C. He was a smart and popular guy, but I wonder what made him so special that he gets to make a living at it?

Edited December 29, 2010 by Bills99999

[The Big Cat]

I would NEVER want to be a sports writer. Its not a job for sports fans (if you want to be good at it) and the demands are ludicrous.

 

That said: the role of the sports writer has changed DRASTICALLY in the last ten years. No longer are fans reliant upon print (digital or otherwise) to get the game "story."

 

Now it's up to the writers to leverage their access (something the Buffalo media does a poor job with, IMO), provide in depth analysis (a job better suited for former players (a new prerequisite), and most importantly, act as investigative reporters on matters of finance, business, and data (all things which jeopardize the access that sets them apart from bloggers in the first place).

[Captain Hindsight]

I would NEVER want to be a sports writer. Its not a job for sports fans (if you want to be good at it) and the demands are ludicrous.

 

That said: the role of the sports writer has changed DRASTICALLY in the last ten years. No longer are fans reliant upon print (digital or otherwise) to get the game "story."

 

Now it's up to the writers to leverage their access (something the Buffalo media does a poor job with, IMO), provide in depth analysis (a job better suited for former players (a new prerequisite), and most importantly, act as investigative reporters on matters of finance, business, and data (all things which jeopardize the access that sets them apart from bloggers in the first place).

Agreed I love talking about sports and would love to be a commentor or an analyst but a writer? It just seems like invetigating like you said Big Cat, not my cup of tea

[Bills99999]

Agreed I love talking about sports and would love to be a commentor or an analyst but a writer? It just seems like invetigating like you said Big Cat, not my cup of tea

 

 

Do you think you could really hack it if you tried?

[boyst]

Do you think you could really hack it if you tried?

I could not.

 

The demands are ridiculous. The best non-athlete sports journalists, well, I cannot think of many? Kiper is not a journalist. Berman and Clayton are the only two who are successful. Schefter is propped up by ESPN, even TG has to dig under the bottom of the barrel to make an interesting story; and he does this well. I am a fan ot TG, go read other reporters to other divisions and you'll see it's just not the same.

 

What people forget is in many cases these people report the story - which is fact, with supporting information. Rarely do they get the chance to voice their opinions. ESPN muffles some thoughts, all of the media outlets do.

 

It is a sad day when Warren Sapp is regarded as a media figure and mind. I am waiting for Alstott to host a show. "Hello dar, I'm Mikey Alstott. Welcome to my show, today we talk abawt finger paint. Oh, I like me finger paint. This show is brought to you by the color October."

Edited December 29, 2010 by jboyst62

[Malazan]

There is very little difference now. Many writers (or 'columnists') had the benefit of working for a gatekeeper who gave them access and a podium. Now we're seeing many writers who made a living this way exposed now that they have to compete. I think we know a few of those who have been exposed.

 

It's confusing now because you have a lot of leftovers from the old media business and they're trying to convert. Some do a good job others do a ridiculously horrible job (ie anyone writing one of the 'logs' for ESPN).

 

People make a living at it because of the same reason people make a living at most things. They got in on it somewhere along the way. The same reason many people here work in an office and file TPS reports..

[cusebob]

Leo was a journalism major in school. He studied the basics of his craft and then went out and got a job. That's how it's done. It's not a popularity contest.

 

Most people don't start out as the Bills beat writer. Working in media (especially newspapers) is a little like minor-league baseball, as you get more experience, you move to a larger city/paper. Eventually, you get to a place you like and you start raising a family and suddenly that's where you are. Leo has had a variety of assignments at the D&C through the years. By the way, not every staff member is chomping at the bit for that beat. It's very time consuming and has become nearly year-round. Leo and Sal (and the News guys) do it well.

 

It was stated that the game story isn't a big part of what readers want anymore. That may be true, but try and find any media outlet that doesn't have some version of one online or in print the next day. Those things are cranked out very quickly, even on an NFL game day, because the reporter has a handful of things to take care of (sidebars, video wrapup, notebooks, etc.). Night games are more challenging when a deadline looms or even passes as the game is winding down, and you still have to get to the locker room.

 

As for athletes taking over, that's a slippery slope. Yes, they have access, provided by a mega-TV network. That's good. But how well do they use it? Do they have the ability to ask a tough question, more than "talk about ... ?" Merrell Hoge is one of the best, IMO, but he rarely -- if ever -- speaks to players on camera. As an athlete, you probably let your guard down when you see Warren Sapp coming because you know it's not going to be the most demanding interview of your life. I'm pretty sure those things are prepared by someone else and Marcellus Wiley just has to walk in and turn on that smile.

 

Having been in the middle of those press gaggles, I can pretty much guarantee that 95 percent of the quotes that get played over and over again on ESPN or wherever came as the result of a question from a newspaper reporter. Why? Because they know how to ask a question. Probably learned it in school.

[stony]

I could not.

 

The demands are ridiculous. The best non-athlete sports journalists, well, I cannot think of many? Kiper is not a journalist. Berman and Clayton are the only two who are successful. Schefter is propped up by ESPN, even TG has to dig under the bottom of the barrel to make an interesting story; and he does this well. I am a fan ot TG, go read other reporters to other divisions and you'll see it's just not the same.

 

What people forget is in many cases these people report the story - which is fact, with supporting information. Rarely do they get the chance to voice their opinions. ESPN muffles some thoughts, all of the media outlets do.

 

It is a sad day when Warren Sapp is regarded as a media figure and mind. I am waiting for Alstott to host a show. "Hello dar, I'm Mikey Alstott. Welcome to my show, today we talk abawt finger paint. Oh, I like me finger paint. This show is brought to you by the color October."

 

Are we talking just on ESPN or national newspapers or city newspapers? Because all the big networks/websites have cleaned out many of the best writers in the nation from their local papers. Regardless, TV is where the money is made, hence the reason why respected columnists go on Around the Horn. I remember reading a couple of years back that they initially received 500$ a show. I'm sure this has gone up since then. Also a reason why we are seeing more of Bill Simmons on TV now.

[The Big Cat]

TV is hardly "where the money's at."

 

It CAN be where the money's at IF you make it as far as the PTI guys, etc.(writers)

 

As for SportsCenter anchors? Forget it. Their bosses are WELL aware of the small army lined up to take that job, and theyre paid accordingly.

[RealityCheck]

I have noticed some of you guys would make pretty good sports writers, but some of you guys are idiots who spew that which has already been spewed?

 

Why is it that some guys get to make a living at it, while others just post on forums?

 

I went to high school and played football with Leo Roth who writes for the Rochester D&C. He was a smart and popular guy, but I wonder what made him so special that he gets to make a living at it?

If he was SPECIAL at it, he would be a coach and a little thing like accountability would rule his day. Writers and accountability do not exist anymore.

[IDBillzFan]

I can't speak for others, but I simply can not ignore the allure of being a sports writer covering the Bills. The idea of spending countless nights in low-budget Rochester motels, Marlboro Manning my way to a 3 a.m. deadline while finishing the last savory drip of Jim Beam before chewing open a two-tablespoon bottle of Jack from the room's overpriced mini-bar to get me ready for the upcoming breakfast of Corn Flakes and Genny while repeatedly hitting F5 in hopes that my 27 paragraphs didn't get cut to a 16 pt. headline over three sentences and no byline.

[PromoTheRobot]

The career of journalism isn't what it used to be. That said those who became columnists usually had to work their way up the ladder to get that plum job. The idea was that those who would write opinions would base them on a body of knowledge and connections gained over years. Unfortunately in more than a few cases those jobs went to cynical blowhards with an ax to grind.

 

On the other extreme are the bloggers. There is no degree or license required. A computer and a webpage is all you need. Some bloggers are great. Some of you know I'm a big fan of Coach Sal. The guy has a football background and breaks down what the Bills do rather than just goes off on a mindless rant. Then there are posers like Pat Moran at BuffaloSportsDaily.com. I don't know him personally but my sense of him is he is a wannabe who "reports" what other sites and reporters say and acts like he's some kind of legit journalist.

 

So yeah, in 2011 there probably isn't much separating the pros from the amateurs except for access. Teams only grant access to media they consider legitimate. It's very hard, if not near impossible, for a blogger to get big-league media credentials. There's a number of reasons. One, there is only so much room for media at One Bills Drive. Two, where do you draw the line with people who can literally show up one day and say they are the press? And three, NFL credentials make you legitimate so they are not about to let any knucklehead into the club.

 

PTR

Edited December 29, 2010 by PromoTheRobot

[stony]

TV is hardly "where the money's at."

 

It CAN be where the money's at IF you make it as far as the PTI guys, etc.(writers)

 

As for SportsCenter anchors? Forget it. Their bosses are WELL aware of the small army lined up to take that job, and theyre paid accordingly.

 

I disagree 100%. According to a Newsweek article writing about his departure from ESPN, Keith Olbermann was making 350,000$ at the end of his run in 1997. That's a long time ago, and since then, ESPN has grown tremendously. There's a reason why the top columnists are doing more appearances on TV and radio. If the 500$ per episode tag has increased from a few years ago, and those guys are doing roughly 150-200 appearances per year, that's over 100,000$ for 20 min or less of debate each day. It seems that's where the money is at.

[Gugny]

TV is hardly "where the money's at."

 

It CAN be where the money's at IF you make it as far as the PTI guys, etc.(writers)

 

As for SportsCenter anchors? Forget it. Their bosses are WELL aware of the small army lined up to take that job, and theyre paid accordingly.

I wish that army would take out Stuart Scott. Can't stand that guy.

[The Big Cat]

I disagree 100%. According to a Newsweek article writing about his departure from ESPN, Keith Olbermann was making 350,000$ at the end of his run in 1997. That's a long time ago, and since then, ESPN has grown tremendously. There's a reason why the top columnists are doing more appearances on TV and radio. If the 500$ per episode tag has increased from a few years ago, and those guys are doing roughly 150-200 appearances per year, that's over 100,000$ for 20 min or less of debate each day. It seems that's where the money is at.

 

Are you a troll?

 

I wish that army would take out Stuart Scott. Can't stand that guy.

 

Ugh, ESPN.

 

Ugh.

[stony]

Are you a troll?

 

 

Yeah, because I said something you disagreed with regarding the current state of sports journalism. Way to refute my position...

[Bills99999]

Leo was a journalism major in school. He studied the basics of his craft and then went out and got a job. That's how it's done. It's not a popularity contest.

 

Most people don't start out as the Bills beat writer. Working in media (especially newspapers) is a little like minor-league baseball, as you get more experience, you move to a larger city/paper. Eventually, you get to a place you like and you start raising a family and suddenly that's where you are. Leo has had a variety of assignments at the D&C through the years. By the way, not every staff member is chomping at the bit for that beat. It's very time consuming and has become nearly year-round. Leo and Sal (and the News guys) do it well.

 

It was stated that the game story isn't a big part of what readers want anymore. That may be true, but try and find any media outlet that doesn't have some version of one online or in print the next day. Those things are cranked out very quickly, even on an NFL game day, because the reporter has a handful of things to take care of (sidebars, video wrapup, notebooks, etc.). Night games are more challenging when a deadline looms or even passes as the game is winding down, and you still have to get to the locker room.

 

As for athletes taking over, that's a slippery slope. Yes, they have access, provided by a mega-TV network. That's good. But how well do they use it? Do they have the ability to ask a tough question, more than "talk about ... ?" Merrell Hoge is one of the best, IMO, but he rarely -- if ever -- speaks to players on camera. As an athlete, you probably let your guard down when you see Warren Sapp coming because you know it's not going to be the most demanding interview of your life. I'm pretty sure those things are prepared by someone else and Marcellus Wiley just has to walk in and turn on that smile.

 

Having been in the middle of those press gaggles, I can pretty much guarantee that 95 percent of the quotes that get played over and over again on ESPN or wherever came as the result of a question from a newspaper reporter. Why? Because they know how to ask a question. Probably learned it in school.

 

 

I am wondering if I am making more money than Leo is

 

I was a better football player than he was, but he was a much better student than I was

[The Big Cat]

Yeah, because I said something you disagreed with regarding the current state of sports journalism. Way to refute my position...

 

But you didn't refute anything. I said you don't get paid unless you're a big name and your rebuttal was Keith freaking Olberman.

 

And then, to really "drive" your point home you ripped off some fact about his salary which is taken almost verbatim from KO's (sited, yes) Wikipedia page.

[stony]

But you didn't refute anything. I said you don't get paid unless you're a big name and your rebuttal was Keith freaking Olberman.

 

And then, to really "drive" your point home you ripped off some fact about his salary which is taken almost verbatim from KO's (sited, yes) Wikipedia page.

 

Whatever man. I didn't think someone would get pissed off disagreeing about this topic. I merely disagreed with your statement "As for SportsCenter anchors? Forget it. Their bosses are WELL aware of the small army lined up to take that job, and they're paid accordingly." Whether your Keith Olbermann or a newer guy, they all make big money. Have a great day.

[The Big Cat]

Whatever man. I didn't think someone would get pissed off disagreeing about this topic. I merely disagreed with your statement "As for SportsCenter anchors? Forget it. Their bosses are WELL aware of the small army lined up to take that job, and they're paid accordingly." Whether your Keith Olbermann or a newer guy, they all make big money. Have a great day.

 

I'm sorry, buddy, but you're wrong.

 

Are you close friends with someone who humped the desk for SportsCenter within the past five years? Not to be a blowhard, but I AM. You're wrong. TODAY'S SortsCenter anchors don't make that much money. TRUST ME.

 

If you have proof other than Keith Olberman--who, again, doesn't follow the "unless you're a personality" precursor--by all means, lay it on me.