Thoner7 Posted December 27, 2010 Posted December 27, 2010 Yea, we could end up with a Matt Ryan or Sam Bradford rookie season! How horrible that would be!
Offside Number 76 Posted December 27, 2010 Posted December 27, 2010 Would be a great draft, but I dont think the players you have listed at our 2nd and 3rd picks will be there. Carimi doesnt make it out of the first round, possibly top 10. Absolutely right.
gumby Posted December 27, 2010 Posted December 27, 2010 Until the Bills get a legitimate QB they will never compete consistently. Fitzpatrick is what he is an above average back-up QB.
1B4IDie Posted December 27, 2010 Posted December 27, 2010 "NEWSFLASH" There is no Bradford, Ryan, Roethlisberger in this years draft. The only one of the same caliber is Luck and it looks like he is staying. So yeah it would take a few years to develop someone. "NEWSFLASH" It took years for Roethlisberger and Ryan to develop too. And will take years for Bradford to develop as well. Mallet has more potential than Stafford or Bradford.
PromoTheRobot Posted December 27, 2010 Posted December 27, 2010 Until the Bills get a legitimate QB they will never compete consistently. Fitzpatrick is what he is an above average back-up QB. Fitz has 23 TDs and 3,000 yards in 14 games. Statistically he is in the same neighborhood as Rothlesberger, Favre, Cassell and Hasselbeck. So what exactly makes Fitz a "back-up" and these other guys "starters?" PTR Yea, we could end up with a Matt Ryan or Sam Bradford rookie season! How horrible that would be! Sam Bradford is having a worse year than Fitz, so if Fitz is so horrible then why do you want a QB that's playing worse? PTR
Offside Number 76 Posted December 27, 2010 Posted December 27, 2010 "NEWSFLASH" It took years for Roethlisberger and Ryan to develop too. And will take years for Bradford to develop as well. Mallet has more potential than Stafford or Bradford. Well, let's at least get the facts straight. It did not take years for Ryan to develop. He led the Falcons to a playoff berth his first season. He was named Rookie of the Year by the AP. Roethlisberger was undefeated in the regular season as a rookie starter: 13-0. Won a playoff game that year, too. His second year, he won a Super Bowl It did not take years for Roethlisberger to develop, either. What any of this has to do with Mallett or any quarterback available in this year's draft, I don't know.
gumby Posted December 27, 2010 Posted December 27, 2010 Fitz has 23 TDs and 3,000 yards in 14 games. Statistically he is in the same neighborhood as Rothlesberger, Favre, Cassell and Hasselbeck. So what exactly makes Fitz a "back-up" and these other guys "starters?" PTR Sam Bradford is having a worse year than Fitz, so if Fitz is so horrible then why do you want a QB that's playing worse? PTR I don't care about Cassell or Hasselbeck and don't consider them great. Plus if you're comparing Fitz to a broken down Favre well that says it all there. I once heard a saying that went like this "Stats are for losers" Rothlisberger and Favre may not have great numbers but they win games. There are many instances where you can point to where one of those guys rallied his team down the stretch to win a game. That to me is the essence of a great QB. When the chips are down can you rally the team to victory. 2 years ago Big Ben had a season of those that led to a Super Bowl win. Favre has a career of them. Where's Fitzpatrick's moment, in a big game that meant something. All the Bills were saying all week was the Pats game was a "gauge game" to see how far along they've come. And Fitzpatrick proceeds to produce his worse game of the season. Sorry I'm sure he's a nice guy, Harvard educated, and has a truly awesome beard. But I want the team I root for to be great not just "good enough" and hope we can sneak into the playoffs as a wild card team.
1B4IDie Posted December 27, 2010 Posted December 27, 2010 (edited) Well, let's at least get the facts straight. It did not take years for Ryan to develop. He led the Falcons to a playoff berth his first season. He was named Rookie of the Year by the AP. Roethlisberger was undefeated in the regular season as a rookie starter: 13-0. Won a playoff game that year, too. His second year, he won a Super Bowl It did not take years for Roethlisberger to develop, either. What any of this has to do with Mallett or any quarterback available in this year's draft, I don't know. So Roethlisberger and Ryan were just winging the ball 30 times a game during those runs like they are now? Lets get this straight they weren't. It took them time to be "The Man" The 2009 Atalnta Team was about Michael Turner and Norwood. Not Ryan's 17TDs and 11Ints. And we know Roethlisberger was just a custodian QB in that first season, that was about defense and the running game. Past 1st Round QB picks are used as a comparison to the possibilities they can offer to the Bills. I don't know why that would be confusing or hard to understand. Edited December 27, 2010 by Why So Serious?
PromoTheRobot Posted December 27, 2010 Posted December 27, 2010 (edited) I don't care about Cassell or Hasselbeck and don't consider them great. Plus if you're comparing Fitz to a broken down Favre well that says it all there. I once heard a saying that went like this "Stats are for losers" Rothlisberger and Favre may not have great numbers but they win games. There are many instances where you can point to where one of those guys rallied his team down the stretch to win a game. That to me is the essence of a great QB. When the chips are down can you rally the team to victory. 2 years ago Big Ben had a season of those that led to a Super Bowl win. Favre has a career of them. Where's Fitzpatrick's moment, in a big game that meant something. All the Bills were saying all week was the Pats game was a "gauge game" to see how far along they've come. And Fitzpatrick proceeds to produce his worse game of the season. Sorry I'm sure he's a nice guy, Harvard educated, and has a truly awesome beard. But I want the team I root for to be great not just "good enough" and hope we can sneak into the playoffs as a wild card team. So what you are saying because Fitz has a bad game against the best team in the NFL you'd dump him for a rookie that would take years to be any good...if ever? And you are saying that QBs alone win or lose games? And you still didn't answer my question as to why Fitz is a back-up when his stats are as good as the average NFL starter? PTR Edited December 27, 2010 by PromoTheRobot
JStranger76 Posted December 27, 2010 Posted December 27, 2010 Take away Fitzy's stats though Promo and you can see when you watch him he clearly only has the tools of a backup QB, as least when it comes to throwing the ball.
PromoTheRobot Posted December 27, 2010 Posted December 27, 2010 (edited) Take away Fitzy's stats though Promo and you can see when you watch him he clearly only has the tools of a backup QB, as least when it comes to throwing the ball. Okay...so I should ignore all the plays he makes and just focus on the ones he doesn't? Gotcha! CLEARLY he is only a backup. CLEARLY! Why didn't anyone explain it to me this way before? It's my fault for expecting any rational thought after a bad Bills loss. PTR Edited December 27, 2010 by PromoTheRobot
JStranger76 Posted December 27, 2010 Posted December 27, 2010 One example is if Fitz can't step into a throw it's pretty much guaranteed the pass has no chance to be completed. The elite guys can pull this off when they have to. Nobody said ignore the plays he makes, but he has clear limitations. It's OK, I love the beard too!
PromoTheRobot Posted December 27, 2010 Posted December 27, 2010 (edited) One example is if Fitz can't step into a throw it's pretty much guaranteed the pass has no chance to be completed. The elite guys can pull this off when they have to. You mean like the 2 TD throws he made vs Miami? Your argument wouldn't be so laughable if you weren't talking about a QB who threw 23 TDs in 14 games with a less-than-great team around hum. How many bad QBs throw 23 TDs? If we had Andrew Luck and he goes 4-12 but throws 23 TDs and 3,000 yards you'd be calling him the franchise. PTR Edited December 27, 2010 by PromoTheRobot
JStranger76 Posted December 27, 2010 Posted December 27, 2010 I never said he didn't make ANY plays Promo. Frank Reich threw a few TD's here and there too. Easy killer, I don't think anyone, especially me, said Fitz was bad. In fact I hope he stays here a long time. But should the Bills have a chance at a TRUE franchise guy with top notch skills, I have no problem with them taking that chance.
John from Riverside Posted December 27, 2010 Posted December 27, 2010 Who said replace them?? Take a step close to the screen. Williams has been great this year--but he was a 5th round pick, not a 1st or second. Again, the point is that this organization has spent high picks on the D front 7 (add McCargo and Denney to the list. Poz?) for several years and where's the front 7?--in need of an overhaul by all accounts here. Weo, The team is trying to run a 3-4......do you have any doubt that Troupe would no be starting if Kevin Williams wasnt playing so well? If anything be concerned that we are running a 3-4 with a penetrating DT as our NT who does not take up space which hurts the purpose....that is something to B word about. Carrington was raw when we drafted him.....but the fact is he has outplayed Stroud when he has been on the field....they are probably looking for leadership for Stroud and DID NOT CARE ABOUT WINNING THIS YEAR.....Carrington is a pick for next year. Maybin was an absolute mistake.....you cant blame players like Denny on this regime he was drafted by an earlier one You only get so many picks in a draft....the chances of them going front seven defensively heavy in this next draft (starting with Bowers) especially if they get that 2nd pick is very good...... This team was screwed up by prior regimes for years....its not gonna get fixed in a year when we have a hard time getting premium talent to come play here. I actually feel better about this team right now then i have in the last few years
gumby Posted December 27, 2010 Posted December 27, 2010 So what you are saying because Fitz has a bad game against the best team in the NFL you'd dump him for a rookie that would take years to be any good...if ever? And you are saying that QBs alone win or lose games? And you still didn't answer my question as to why Fitz is a back-up when his stats are as good as the average NFL starter? PTR You like stats so much and then you go on to say the Pats are the best team in the NFL. Yet their defense is ranked 27th in the league which by the way is lower than the Bills. Furthermore they hammer the Bills 34-3. The Pats are the best team in the league because they have the best QB in the league. Period. End of discussion. The rest of that team is interchangeable and isn't much better than the Bills. The NFL is a QB driven league, with a great QB your chances of winning are increased exponentially. Would I take a rookie QB? Absolutely! Am I afraid he might not develop? No! How is drafting an o-linemen or defensive front 7 any safer?. For every Leaf, Couch, Carr, Russell that others throw out on this message board, one can list Mandarich, Gallery, Williams, Bosworth. All positions have their busts. I for one won't curl up in a fetal position with worry because we "might" draft a bust at QB. A rookie QB might take a few years to develop. But at least we would be heading in the right direction. With Fitzpatrick you're just spinning your wheels and putting off the day when the position needs to be addressed. I guess we should agree to disagree. You see Fitzpatrick and see potential. All I see is mediocrity.
JStranger76 Posted December 27, 2010 Posted December 27, 2010 Agree gumby. I don't see us going all the way with Fitz unless we build a 85 Bears or 2000 Ravens defense. Top QB or legendary D, either way it's gonna take a few years to develope one.
djrocks Posted December 27, 2010 Posted December 27, 2010 If you are in the group who want to draft a QB with the first round pick get used to this last game and this season. It will mean at least 3 more loosing crap seasons. It will be a couple of years before a rookie QB comes close to being good. Sure Fitz shot the bed today. But look at the season he had. Look how pathic the front seven on defense is. What the Bills need is a team to build around Fitz, not a another QB. No pressure at all on Brady. Could'nt stop the run. I say draft nothing but front seven defense player, and maybe an Offensive tackle. Draft this. If your serious about the 3-4 defense you need LB's. 1. Da'Quan Bowers DE, Clemson. 2. Gabe Carimi OT, Wisconsin 3. Jeremy Beal OLB, Oklahoma 4. Jonathan Cornell ILB, Mississippi 4b. Mike McNeill TE, Nebraska 5. Kheeston Randall NT, Texas 6. Cliff Matthews OLB, South Carolina 7. Alex Wujciak ILB, Maryland thank god you are not running our draft. nix knows you build your team around a QB and that its the most important position on any team by far. ST Louis was 1 and 15 last year they get Bradford and next week they play for their division championship and a playoff appearance. you fits lovers drive me crazy. mark my words we will draft our QB of the future in this drafts first or second round. get ready for Mallett boys or who ever Nix thinks is the best QB in this draft after Luck. Its ridiculous with this fitz crap my lord he had 6 int and 4 fumbles in the last 2 games and you want to blame everyone but him get real!
K Gun Special Posted December 27, 2010 Posted December 27, 2010 You mean like the 2 TD throws he made vs Miami? Your argument wouldn't be so laughable if you weren't talking about a QB who threw 23 TDs in 14 games with a less-than-great team around hum. How many bad QBs throw 23 TDs? If we had Andrew Luck and he goes 4-12 but throws 23 TDs and 3,000 yards you'd be calling him the franchise. PTR Yea bc if Luck came in and posted those same numbers in his rookie season; its a lot more impressive than a 6th year journeyman QB
Mr. WEO Posted December 27, 2010 Posted December 27, 2010 So Roethlisberger and Ryan were just winging the ball 30 times a game during those runs like they are now? Lets get this straight they weren't. It took them time to be "The Man" The 2009 Atalnta Team was about Michael Turner and Norwood. Not Ryan's 17TDs and 11Ints. And we know Roethlisberger was just a custodian QB in that first season, that was about defense and the running game. Past 1st Round QB picks are used as a comparison to the possibilities they can offer to the Bills. I don't know why that would be confusing or hard to understand. Actually, Ryan averaged 27 passes a game his rookie year--and had 6 games over 30. So....yes, he was the man right away. Big Ben had 17 TDs his rookie year and threw 23 times a game. Flacco has lead his team to the playoffs three years in a row--including his rookie season, where he passes for 3000 yards. If you want to argue that Fitzy is a solid starter, do so--and stop there. You're argument that rookie QBs can't come in and help out right away isn't holding water.
Recommended Posts