Donte Whitner Sucks.

[8-8 Forever?]

But he does have a lot of meaningless tackles.

 

Ughhhh. Can we please let this overpaid chump go?

He won't be back. the team as much told him that.. not to worry

[BADOLBILZ]

If George Wilson or Jairus Byrd had been in coverage it would have been the front 7's fault.

 

If George Wilson were making $6M per year and couldn't make a play, George Wilson would be catching flak too.

 

It has been one thing dealing with what Donte's overdrafting cost the teams in terms of personnel, and then knowing that he basically was earning an average of $6M over the past 5 miserable seasons. I think most fans were past that. However, when he starts taking his negotiations public with a month left in the season he is going to catch hell from the fans. He has been practically stealing money for the past 5 years, he needs to keep his mouth shut and not start biting the hand that fed him the then richest contract in team history.

 

Your problem, and that of many others is that you keep defending Donte for what he does, which is provide adequate SS play. An undersized complementary player with a lot of passion. But the Donte you are defending is not the guy who Donte thinks he is. He thinks he is a star player.

[San-O]

Sorry - I don't buy it. Yeah, Brady had too much time - but Gronkowski must have been gaining ground on Whitner every one of those few (not seven) seconds to be as open as Whitner was leaving him.

 

And yeah, I admit it - I will never forgive him for not being Haloti (sp?) Ngata. Every time I watch Whitner come up small (while watching Ngata kick butt here in Maryland) I want to go back and time and stop Wilson from hiring Levy as GM.

 

Seriously - did Levy make a single good move in his tenure?

 

 

"crickets"

[Ramius]

If George Wilson were making $6M per year and couldn't make a play, George Wilson would be catching flak too.

 

It has been one thing dealing with what Donte's overdrafting cost the teams in terms of personnel, and then knowing that he basically was earning an average of $6M over the past 5 miserable seasons. I think most fans were past that. However, when he starts taking his negotiations public with a month left in the season he is going to catch hell from the fans. He has been practically stealing money for the past 5 years, he needs to keep his mouth shut and not start biting the hand that fed him the then richest contract in team history.

 

Your problem, and that of many others is that you keep defending Donte for what he does, which is provide adequate SS play. An undersized complementary player with a lot of passion. But the Donte you are defending is not the guy who Donte thinks he is. He thinks he is a star player.

 

My point is that Whitner is the better safety than Wilson. He may not be more cost efficient, but on an absolute sense, he's a better safety.

 

How was Whitner's rookie deal the richest in team history? What about the Moulds extension, and the Mike Williams deals. Both of those were more than Donte's, and William's had to be more than his on a per year basis. Not to mention that rookie deals are loaded with incentives and escalator clauses, so how much was Whitner really getting paid?

Edited December 27, 2010 by Ramius

[BADOLBILZ]

"crickets"

 

The problem with Donte in pass protection aren't the plays that are made where the QB has all kinds of time and finds a TE open by 15 feet in the endzone when it was Donte's man.

 

The problem is the contestable plays. There was one play where Gronkowski made a grab with his body twisted back toward the QB while Donte was literally right on his heels. If Donte were 6' with long arms he could have easily reached in and defensed that ball. But because he is small and has a very short reach he literally has to be on top of the receiver to make a play.

 

I think most Bills fans realize Whitner's limitations. But for those that refuse to admit that he is not exceptional......it's not his fault he is physically limited....it's not his fault because the rest of the defense isn't up to his ability......it's not his fault he was paid $6m per year and so on.

 

My point is that Whitner is the better safety than Wilson. He may not be more cost efficient, but on an absolute sense, he's a better safety.

 

How was Whitner's rookie deal the richest in team history? What about the Moulds extension, and the Mike Williams deals. Both of those were more than Donte's, and William's had to be more than his on a per year basis. Not to mention that rookie deals are loaded with incentives and escalator clauses, so how much was Whitner really getting paid?

 

You are correct, Whitner's deal was the second richest rookie deal in Bills history. Whitner was paid $29M over over the last 5 seasons.

[Dawgg]

The justifications for Donte Whitner's subpar play has evolved over the years. At first, he could do no wrong. He was an up-and-coming safety who was the right pick for the right team at the right time and deserved comparisons to Bob Sanders and Troy Polamalu.

 

Now that 6 years have elapsed and it's clear as day that he's an average player (at best), the new argument is that "Hey, at least he's better than the converted-from-WR safety George Wilson."

 

Irrespective of these ill-fated justifications, the underlying thesis remains true: Donte is not worth the rich contract extension he seeks. This team would be far better served giving it to a playmaking defender than they would extending Donte with a contract to his liking. Donte can be be replaced. If George Wilson steps in, you may see a dropoff but it won't be significant.

 

Those who applauded the pick back in 2005 may continue to hold onto the misguided notion that Whitner is a good player. Nevertheless, it's bad football business to give rich extensions to players who have not performed on the field.

[San-O]

The justifications for Donte Whitner's subpar play has evolved over the years. At first, he could do no wrong. He was an up-and-coming safety who was the right pick for the right team at the right time and deserved comparisons to Bob Sanders and Troy Polamalu.

 

Now that 6 years have elapsed and it's clear as day that he's an average player (at best), the new argument is that "Hey, at least he's better than the converted-from-WR safety George Wilson."

 

Irrespective of these ill-fated justifications, the underlying thesis remains true: Donte is not worth the rich contract extension he seeks. This team would be far better served giving it to a playmaking defender than they would extending Donte with a contract to his liking. Donte can be be replaced. If George Wilson steps in, you may see a dropoff but it won't be significant.

 

Those who applauded the pick back in 2005 may continue to hold onto the misguided notion that Whitner is a good player. Nevertheless, it's bad football business to give rich extensions to players who have not performed on the field.

 

 

Agreed. Yet the F.O. extends a player like Kelsay. Who were they bidding against? Really?

 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

The justifications for Donte Whitner's subpar play has evolved over the years. At first, he could do no wrong. He was an up-and-coming safety who was the right pick for the right team at the right time and deserved comparisons to Bob Sanders and Troy Polamalu.

 

Now that 6 years have elapsed and it's clear as day that he's an average player (at best), the new argument is that "Hey, at least he's better than the converted-from-WR safety George Wilson."

 

Irrespective of these ill-fated justifications, the underlying thesis remains true: Donte is not worth the rich contract extension he seeks. This team would be far better served giving it to a playmaking defender than they would extending Donte with a contract to his liking. Donte can be be replaced. If George Wilson steps in, you may see a dropoff but it won't be significant.

 

Those who applauded the pick back in 2005 may continue to hold onto the misguided notion that Whitner is a good player. Nevertheless, it's bad football business to give rich extensions to players who have not performed on the field.

 

So, when they don't re-up him, and "create another hole," are you going to blast the FO for doing so?

 

Just checking, because one of the favorite harpings of one of the biggest bashers of picking DBs around here is that we draft them and let them go and have to spend picks that could be spent on OL on DBs.

 

Just want to make sure we're keeping things intellectually honest here.

Edited December 27, 2010 by joesixpack

[JStranger76]

The front office better go after a couple other positions like TE, RT, or LB. You just can't "sit out" free agency. Just be smart about it. Go after positions that are not as pricey as others and such.....

[Dawgg]

So, when they don't re-up him, and "create another hole," are you going to blast the FO for doing so?

 

Just checking, because one of the favorite harpings of one of the biggest bashers of picking DBs around here is that we draft them and let themn go and have to spend picks that could be spent on OL on DBs.

Just want to make sure we're keeping things intellectually honest here.

Howdy Joe! Are you too intellectually dense to comprehend that not all players are created equal? Nothing on this board surprises me anymore By your logic, anyone who creates a positional hole should be extended. Should we extend Jon Corto to a rich 5 year deal since we might need to replace him on special teams?

 

Jokes aside, you're wrong about the source of my complaints. My complaint has nothing to do specifically with DBs, OL's, and LB's, it has everything to do with boneheaded front offices moves, something this team has been awfully good at over the years.

 

- Drafting Donte Whitner at #8 overall when blue chip line prospects are available is not smart.

- Trading up for McCargo in the 1st round when he was the third best DL on his collegiate tam is not smart.

- Allowing Clements to walk for no compensation in return is stupid.

- Extending Kelsay to a rich deal, which required extending Schobel 3 years early is not smart.

- Signing Dockery and Walker is not smart.

 

The stupidity of these moves were apparent from the moment they were made. Posters who actually understood the concept of value spoke out against them then, just as they do now. Lemmings like you, on the other hand, lauded these moves at every turn.

 

So back to your core question: Intellectual honesty has always been there, your comprehension notwithstanding.

[Thoner7]

Create a hole? The hole will be FILLED when Whitner leaves. George Wilson proved last year he was clearly better than Whitner. Our team has a long, embarrassing history of not being able to assess the talent on our own roster, and this is no different. Jim Leonard? He stinks – cut him. Greer? Nah. Fred Jackson? Not over A train! This is the scenario again.

 

The Bills starting roster gets BETTER when GW supplants Whitner. Better!

[Ramius]

So, when they don't re-up him, and "create another hole," are you going to blast the FO for doing so?

 

Just checking, because one of the favorite harpings of one of the biggest bashers of picking DBs around here is that we draft them and let them go and have to spend picks that could be spent on OL on DBs.

 

Just want to make sure we're keeping things intellectually honest here.

 

Since we're being intellectually honest here, we should bring up that dawgg was a huge proponent of Dusty Dvorcek at DT as the savior to all the Bills woes. Dusty is no longer in the league and is rocking it it UFL-style.

[Dawgg]

Create a hole? The hole will be FILLED when Whitner leaves. George Wilson proved last year he was clearly better than Whitner. Our team has a long, embarrassing history of not being able to assess the talent on our own roster, and this is no different. Jim Leonard? He stinks – cut him. Greer? Nah. Fred Jackson? Not over A train! This is the scenario again.

 

The Bills starting roster gets BETTER when GW supplants Whitner. Better!

Shhh you don't want to crush the spirits of those who will defend Whitner to the grave irrespective of his subpar play. You have to be more indirect with your arguments.

[DDD]

Those stats don't really say anything about the strengths or weaknesses of Whitner or any of the players on the list. Some are better than him, some are worse. However Berry, Polamalu, Wilson and Laron Landry all make more than what Whitner is reportedly asking for (7 Mil) and all are old contracts except for Berry, who makes the most of all of them, so it's difficult to compare the $7 mill number against their contracts. The question isn't really how good is Whitner, which is probably average to above average, but what they'd replace him with or what resources (2nd round pick?) they'd have to use to get that replacement. You also conveniently left out tackles.

 

 

It's almost too easy.

 

Agreed. Whitner is a decent safety, he just doesn't make alot of big plays. I think if he was a 2nd or 3rd round (where he was projuected) pick people would singing his praise. It's not his fault Levy picked him so high and above Ngata. By the way, your avatar is making me

[Dawgg]

Since we're being intellectually honest here, we should bring up that dawgg was a huge proponent of Dusty Dvorcek at DT as the savior to all the Bills woes. Dusty is no longer in the league and is rocking it it UFL-style.

Really Ramius?

 

I simply stated that the trade the Bills made was bad. They got Jon McCargo for 2 picks that became Dvoracek and Manning. I never lauded Dvoracek as a player, I simply said that the Bills made a bad trade.

 

And they did.

 

You on the other hand, wanted the Bills to select Devin Thomas with their first rounder. Probably a good thing they didn't.

You bought a Whitner jersey and believed that he was the right pick at #8. Once again, you were wrong.

You also said Vick can't be a QB in this league. He's one of the leading candidates for the NFL's MVP award.

 

I'll stand by my record of Bills-related assessments any day of the week when put side by side with yours

[DC Tom]

Agreed. Whitner is a decent safety, he just doesn't make alot of big plays. I think if he was a 2nd or 3rd round (where he was projuected) pick people would singing his praise. It's not his fault Levy picked him so high and above Ngata. By the way, your avatar is making me

 

Whitner's biggest problem is playing on a defense where he has to support the pathetic LB corps against the run, AND cover for a free safety who doesn't know what he's doing, while playing his normal duties of covering the center of the field and supporting the DBs on the edges.

 

Put him on a team where everyone else is doing THEIR jobs - where his FS isn't running around like a headless chicken, and his MLB doesn't always have his back to the runner, and the DE-converted-to-OLB isn't three yards deep in the backfield when he should be covering the shallow out route, and he'll be solid.

[Ramius]

Agreed. Whitner is a decent safety, he just doesn't make alot of big plays. I think if he was a 2nd or 3rd round (where he was projuected) pick people would singing his praise. It's not his fault Levy picked him so high and above Ngata. By the way, your avatar is making me

 

Agreed. Too many people are hung up on how a player plays relative to their draft position, not on their actual talent. We could get the same production out of Freddie J, but if he was a round 2 pick, he'd have been strung up by now.

 

We should have drafted Ngata instead of Whitner. Everyone agrees on that. But that should have no bearing on the decision to re-sign him now or evaluating his play now.

[Dawgg]

Agreed. Whitner is a decent safety, he just doesn't make alot of big plays. I think if he was a 2nd or 3rd round (where he was projuected) pick people would singing his praise. It's not his fault Levy picked him so high and above Ngata. By the way, your avatar is making me

I 100% agree with this statement.

 

Let's take this point even further. If Whitner was a 2nd or 3rd round pick (as he should have been), he would have been making around $1.2M per year.

 

Presented with a contract extension that pays him $4-5M per year, he'd be ecstatic!

 

Unfortunately, as the #8 overall pick, $5M per year isn't enough for Donte. He wants a hefty pay raise. And therein lies the problem. Yes, his status as the #8 overall pick shouldn't impact the decision on whether to re-sign him, but it certainly impacts the decision on how much to re-sign him for.

 

Unfortunately, even the $5M a year the Bills are offering Donte is too much, given his on-field production. How much do you want to sign him for, when taking into consideration where this team is?

Edited December 27, 2010 by Dawgg

[John from Riverside]

I would actually like to see George Wilson's numbers next to Dante's

 

That right there tells the true story.....he isnt even the best safety on his own team much less the names the OP put out there....

 

And he wants a raise?

[BuffaloBud]

It seems as if this has turned into a 3 way conversation, but let me add this to the mix. How many of those FS listed have top end front 7's to allow the FS to make impact plays instead of having to protect the backside?