Donte Whitner Sucks.

[Dawgg]

Not sure, but you seem to have an odd fascination with those 2.

 

That being said, congrats! After 4,630 absolutely worthless posts stating nothing other than "the bills suck, der, smithers, der, ralph in senile, der" you've actually posted something different. Perhaps after a few correspondence courses you'll actually be able to make a valid point about something!

 

When all else fails, make the personal attack. That's been your MO for quite some time, almost as if to mask the fact that you've been pretty much dead wrong in your assessments of the team over the past many years.

 

Like it or not, while you were praising the Dockery and Walker signings, posters like Vet knew they were ill-advised acquisitions. While you were so psyched about the Whitner pick you went out and bought his jersey, others knew that the Bills had squandered yet another golden opportunity to improve the team.

 

You say Donte is a good safety who should be retained. At what price would you say that it's best to let Donte walk? Or do you suggest giving him whatever he wants?

Edited December 28, 2010 by Dawgg

[Pete]

Seriously - did Levy make a single good move in his tenure?

Kyle Williams and Fred Jackson

[JStranger76]

I just hope we DO try and strengthen some other areas in free agency whether or not we bring Whitner back. That's what we should all REALLY be hoping for.

[stony]

For starters, as was mentioned, he's been starting all season long. This coaching staff has demonstrated that they aren't going to keep a weaker player on the field. They benched/cut Edwards. They cut Cornell Green. They benched Maybin. Stevie Johnson got benched after a couple of games. If they honestly thought one of the other safeties were better, Wilson or Scott would be starting. But they aren't.

 

As for play, Wilson and Scott are too one-dimensional. Scott of an in-the-box extra LB type of safety. Wilson is a strictly roaming coverage safety. Neither of they have the ability and flexibility of Whitner (which he has demonstrated by playing every position in the secondary at some point during his career here).

 

Whitner is in on almost every single play. Watch the guy. He's simply all over the field. He constantly in the pile making tackles in the run game, he's all over the field in coverage on WRs, TEs, and RBs. Lots of times, he's covering for someone else's blown assignment, such as an LB that can't keep up with a TE, or for Byrd who has had a horrific year.

 

Whitner isn't an elite safety. But he's a good one. And its foolish to let him go and create another hole in an already porous defense. Think about this. Would you rather overpay a bit to keep a good player and have the draft pick to use on the front 7 or OL? Or let him go so then we have to look elsewhere to replace him and waste a pick in effort to try and replace him?

 

Totally agree. But don't tell that to the posters who think George Wilson is a better SS, despite the fact he doesn't play that position.

 

The only way you don't pay him a reasonable contract is because you're are planning on going after a David Harris or another free agent. However, because winning the lotto is more likely to occur before that happens, keep him. I can deal with people who opine that he sucks, thus should not be resigned. But those who are offering arguments based on money I don't buy. We are well below the cap, and no one to our knowledge is getting the shaft because money is going to Whitner. This contract will not hamstring us like many of the posters here believe.

Edited December 28, 2010 by stony

[BADOLBILZ]

Are the stats referenced for Scott from 2009? He played OLB a large portion of the games he was active for.

 

Yeah, I'm aware of that. I'm not trying to say that Scott would have had 160 tackles as SS this year or George Wilson 10 pics. But Scott also started at SS ahead of Whitner until injuries necessitated the move to LB where he was subsequently injured. Gotta' say, with virtually the same players in the secondary...........under Fewell the group was FAR BETTER. A significant difference was Whitner starting full time at SS this year. Just sayin'.

[cåblelady]

Just sayin'.

I vote u keep the beard. It looks nice. Just sayin'

[Adam]

I'm not sure what Whitner you are watching, but the guy is not all over the field. He literally makes a lot of tackles 8-10 yards downfield on running plays and after the catch but he is also invisible for much of the game. The last two weeks his lack of impact has been particularly evident. He is a target in the pass game. SS is not a strength for this team, it's hard to justify paying Donte like he is a strength when he is not.

 

I've said it before, I am not for saving Ralph's money. But this team could just as easily find a BETTER player than Donte virtually by accident (late draft or udfa or right here on the roster). I don't want to see him signed to a deal so lucrative that it prevents the team from exhausting the possibilities at the position. Is it a coincidence that the team went from a ball-hawking secondary last year to a no-play making mess this year with Donte going from part time to all the snaps? The guy NEVER has a big season in terms of impact plays. It's time to face the facts, he is not that good.

There is absolutely a drop off in the performance of the defense, noticably in the secondary. That was expected when going from an undersized 4-3 to a 3-4, particularly with the departure of our top pass rusher. Without enough explosive big bodies up front to tie up the OLs, our secondary has been exposed.

 

I agree that we are better off keeping Whitner and using our picks elsewhere, but we can't offer too much more than we already are, despite the fact he is clearly better than the other guys

[stony]

When all else fails, make the personal attack. That's been your MO for quite some time, almost as if to mask the fact that you've been pretty much dead wrong in your assessments of the team over the past many years.

 

Like it or not, while you were praising the Dockery and Walker signings, posters like Vet knew they were ill-advised acquisitions. While you were so psyched about the Whitner pick you went out and bought his jersey, others knew that the Bills had squandered yet another golden opportunity to improve the team.

 

You say Donte is a good safety who should be retained. At what price would you say that it's best to let Donte walk? Or do you suggest giving him whatever he wants?

 

Or you go your route and say (and I'm paraphrasing) "nothing on this board ceases to amaze me anymore" whenever someone says something you disagree with. But to each their own...

 

This is the big question. He should not get whatever he wants, the argument on the board seems to center on what we all think he is worth. 7 mil is not going to happen, so I think the magic number (and the obvious compromise to the 5mil/7mil rumors) is 5.5-6ish.

[Ramius]

I'm not sure what Whitner you are watching, but the guy is not all over the field. He literally makes a lot of tackles 8-10 yards downfield on running plays and after the catch but he is also invisible for much of the game. The last two weeks his lack of impact has been particularly evident. He is a target in the pass game. SS is not a strength for this team, it's hard to justify paying Donte like he is a strength when he is not.

 

I've said it before, I am not for saving Ralph's money. But this team could just as easily find a BETTER player than Donte virtually by accident (late draft or udfa or right here on the roster). I don't want to see him signed to a deal so lucrative that it prevents the team from exhausting the possibilities at the position. Is it a coincidence that the team went from a ball-hawking secondary last year to a no-play making mess this year with Donte going from part time to all the snaps? The guy NEVER has a big season in terms of impact plays. It's time to face the facts, he is not that good.

 

You seriously think that the reason for the dropoff from 2009 to 2010 is Whitner playing more? :lol:

 

I guess it has nothing to do with the fact that we got new coaches, completely switched defenses that require all personnel, and lost our best pass rusher.

[BADOLBILZ]

[/b]

 

Or you go your route and say (and I'm paraphrasing) "nothing on this board ceases to amaze me anymore" whenever someone says something you disagree with. But to each their own...

 

This is the big question. He should not get whatever he wants, the argument on the board seems to center on what we all think he is worth. 7 mil is not going to happen, so I think the magic number (and the obvious compromise to the 5mil/7mil rumors) is 5.5-6ish.

 

I'd say he is WORTH about $4M per as a capable veteran safety with a modest signing bonus around $6M. I'd say he wants $42M over 6 years with about $20M guaranteed. Condon is not getting involved for peanuts and I'm sure Condon knows the Bills are an easy mark which is why he is involved. That contract would prohibit the coaching staff from opening up the position for competition.

[Lurker]

ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.

The value this thread (number 1,093,421 in the DW Sucks! series) brings to TSW?

 

Fug'n A...

[BADOLBILZ]

You seriously think that the reason for the dropoff from 2009 to 2010 is Whitner playing more? :lol:

 

I guess it has nothing to do with the fact that we got new coaches, completely switched defenses that require all personnel, and lost our best pass rusher.

 

Just one more bit of evidence. A sprinkle on top of the cake. Everything you put forth to defend Whitner is completely subjective. Like "he is all over the place" or that he must be good otherwise George Edwards wouldn't be playing him over the others ('cuz in George we trust). Yeah, right.

[Ramius]

Just one more bit of evidence. A sprinkle on top of the cake. Everything you put forth to defend Whitner is completely subjective. Like "he is all over the place" or that he must be good otherwise George Edwards wouldn't be playing him over the others ('cuz in George we trust). Yeah, right.

 

You assume: a) the coaches know that Wilson/Scott are better, but play Whitner for what reason? They have no vested interest in him. or b)the fans know more, which is laughable.

 

But hey, it must be nice to live in your world where the only reason the Bills are worse on D is because Whitner is playing more. What about Arthur Moats? Using your simplistic analysis, the Bills defense is worse because of him. He's played more in 2010 than he played in 2009.

[BADOLBILZ]

You assume: a) the coaches know that Wilson/Scott are better, but play Whitner for what reason? They have no vested interest in him. or b)the fans know more, which is laughable.

 

But hey, it must be nice to live in your world where the only reason the Bills are worse on D is because Whitner is playing more. What about Arthur Moats? Using your simplistic analysis, the Bills defense is worse because of him. He's played more in 2010 than he played in 2009.

 

As I've already stated, this coaching staff and the ones before it have made some poor evaluations of their own talent.

 

Edwards over Ryan Fitzpatrick? Really? Kelsay getting an extension based in part on his "improving play at OLB"? REALLY??

 

And what exactly has George Edwards done to deserve the benefit of the doubt regarding his ability to evaluate talent in the NFL? His defense looked like an utter clusterfuk all year long. What the hell is going on up front with this team? What are they trying to do, PURPOSELY open holes for the opposition running game?

 

The man guided this defense to one of the worst performances in the league but I am supposed to trust his evaluation of Whitner? Have you ever considered that he might have been overwhelmed and lacked the grip of his own defense to utilize his secondary the way Fewell did last year? This was anything but a matchup defense. Maybe it was just easier to plug Donte in and sacrifice matchups in favor of trying to figure out how to make his front 7 work (which he never succeeded at).

 

George Edwards didn't show anything. The man probably should be replaced, he was all Chan could get on short notice and now we probably have to live with him for at least another year. I hope not, but realistically this team is probably going to have to get better in spite of this guy.

[Adam]

As I've already stated, this coaching staff and the ones before it have made some poor evaluations of their own talent.

 

Edwards over Ryan Fitzpatrick? Really? Kelsay getting an extension based in part on his "improving play at OLB"? REALLY??

 

And what exactly has George Edwards done to deserve the benefit of the doubt regarding his ability to evaluate talent in the NFL? His defense looked like an utter clusterfuk all year long. What the hell is going on up front with this team? What are they trying to do, PURPOSELY open holes for the opposition running game?

 

The man guided this defense to one of the worst performances in the league but I am supposed to trust his evaluation of Whitner? Have you ever considered that he might have been overwhelmed and lacked the grip of his own defense to utilize his secondary the way Fewell did last year? This was anything but a matchup defense. Maybe it was just easier to plug Donte in and sacrifice matchups in favor of trying to figure out how to make his front 7 work (which he never succeeded at).

 

George Edwards didn't show anything. The man probably should be replaced, he was all Chan could get on short notice and now we probably have to live with him for at least another year. I hope not, but realistically this team is probably going to have to get better in spite of this guy.

As was previously stated, going from a 4-3 to a 3-4 is going to take time, but I think it will be worthwhile to get more athletic and have more playmakers

[BADOLBILZ]

As was previously stated, going from a 4-3 to a 3-4 is going to take time, but I think it will be worthwhile to get more athletic and have more playmakers

 

It's a mystery what defense they will play next year. Kyle Williams and Chris Kelsay are 4-3, one gap lineman. Kelsay in particular is a one trick pony. Dwan Edwards, Carrington and Troup are 3-4 DL. It's 50/50 right now what they are going to do.

[Bill from NYC]

As I've already stated, this coaching staff and the ones before it have made some poor evaluations of their own talent.

 

Edwards over Ryan Fitzpatrick? Really? Kelsay getting an extension based in part on his "improving play at OLB"? REALLY??

 

And what exactly has George Edwards done to deserve the benefit of the doubt regarding his ability to evaluate talent in the NFL? His defense looked like an utter clusterfuk all year long. What the hell is going on up front with this team? What are they trying to do, PURPOSELY open holes for the opposition running game?

 

The man guided this defense to one of the worst performances in the league but I am supposed to trust his evaluation of Whitner? Have you ever considered that he might have been overwhelmed and lacked the grip of his own defense to utilize his secondary the way Fewell did last year? This was anything but a matchup defense. Maybe it was just easier to plug Donte in and sacrifice matchups in favor of trying to figure out how to make his front 7 work (which he never succeeded at).

 

George Edwards didn't show anything. The man probably should be replaced, he was all Chan could get on short notice and now we probably have to live with him for at least another year. I hope not, but realistically this team is probably going to have to get better in spite of this guy.

 

I hear ya, but Whitner didn't make plays under Fewell/Jauron either.

Btw, isn't it interesting to see the Giants defense collapse? They are getting torched, and they would seem to have twice our talent. Is Fewell better than Edwards? I'm not too sure, but the amount of damage that Levy did to this team by bringing in poor coaches and poor players is enough to stagger a herd of elephants.

[Adam]

It's a mystery what defense they will play next year. Kyle Williams and Chris Kelsay are 4-3, one gap lineman. Kelsay in particular is a one trick pony. Dwan Edwards, Carrington and Troup are 3-4 DL. It's 50/50 right now what they are going to do.

If Troup makes enough progress to get significant time, we can play Williams at DE for a number of snaps. That would probably help our pass rush and having both on the field for a significant amount of time would bolster our front 7 and run defense.

[DreReed83]

These stats prove A LOT. It shows that he doesn't make INTs. He doesn't defend the pass well, he doesn't pressure the QB, he doesn't create turnovers, he's not a playmaker. Just like Spiller. A guy who's taken with the top 10 pick, he better produce and earn his money. So far, Whitner and Spiller haven't shown me jack.

[BADOLBILZ]

I hear ya, but Whitner didn't make plays under Fewell/Jauron either.

Btw, isn't it interesting to see the Giants defense collapse? They are getting torched, and they would seem to have twice our talent. Is Fewell better than Edwards? I'm not too sure, but the amount of damage that Levy did to this team by bringing in poor coaches and poor players is enough to stagger a herd of elephants.

bB

 

Fewell is overrated, his performance with the Bills really did nothing to justify his elevation to DC from his assistant's role in Chicago. Let's not forget, he was ALL JAURON COULD GET. Not unlike Edwards. But after 4 years with this defense he didn't have any problem mixing and matching in his secondary. No question he had a better grip on how to use most of these same players. Whitner is a second down safety. He isn't good in coverage, but he isn't good in the box either. You need the area 8-12 yards from the LOS defensed, he's your man.

 

George Edwards looked like he was in over his head this year. At least Gailey is a seasoned pro. I'm sick of coaches like Edwards who take mediocre talent and make it look very mediocre and need to be given mull-agains at our expense.

 

If Troup makes enough progress to get significant time, we can play Williams at DE for a number of snaps. That would probably help our pass rush and having both on the field for a significant amount of time would bolster our front 7 and run defense.

 

The traditional 3-4 defenses employ 3 down lineman who play 2 gaps. Some of the best employ 3 starting DL you may have never heard of, like SD does.

 

That's the opposite of Kyle Williams. His game is all about one gap penetration versus stubby, less athletic interior lineman. He has clearly emerged as the Bills best defender, considerably so. The traditional 3-4 doesn't suit him.

 

Now if we had a Mike Nolan or Rex Ryan type running a Ravens/Jets type defense then maybe this defense could be tweaked to take advantage of Kyle Williams without creating huge holes up front. I have no faith in George Edwards. None.