Donte's offer?

[cmjoyce113]

well the bills stated they gave the big deal to kelsay as he is very important to the team. whitner sees himself as more important than kelsay and even tweeted that he wants to be paid based on his contribution to this team. whitner is not going to accept a deal where he is paid less than kelsay nor should he since he is more important to the defense than kelsay.

 

 

I would disagree based on kelsays performance the last half the year...

[Zulu Cthulhu]

So donte gets skewered here for what, not having 15 interceptions or whatever and still *gasp* trying to get as much money as possible. Even though he's a leading tackler on the team and the best SS we have.

 

But kelsay gets a pass and deserves his raise for miserably failing for the majority of this season. Makes sense.

 

Yes i am aware kelsay has played better of late; that's difficult not to do when he started as horribly as he did.

[BillsVet]

You probably won't get much argument from the Bills staff that Kelsay is better at a '4-man front DE' than a standup OLB, but they didn't pay him because of his progress at learning a new position.

 

The NFL is a cut throat business plain and simple. You don't pay for performance as much as you do for potential if it's done right and teams don't re-sign players because they're locker room leaders. It's about production and whether the player brings value to the team and if they can help the team win. Kelsay is a liability in the 34 and average on a good day as a base end in a 43.

 

Only the Bills would throw that kind of cash at a guy for being a locker room leader who can't get to the QB and can't play in their new defensive scheme. And people wonder why no one wants to coach or be the GM in Buffalo.

[RTW2012]

Wrong. These clowns have job security because the fan base is so gullible, they get excited when the front office makes boneheaded moves, renewing their season tickets and purchasing Whitner jerseys in droves.

 

In any other market, these clowns would get run out of town.

 

Yeah, the fan base got so excited this year the Bills sold 10,000 fewer season tickets.

[Pirate Angel]

This reminds me of the arguments for keeping London Fletcher, both men make alot of tackles, cover alot of ground, and play with a high motor...however they do not make alot of game changing/ momentum changing plays to warrent a big contract. Personally I think its a very good offer, if he is committed to the Bills and wants to be here there is a very reasonable contract offer that doesnt break the bank and yet still pays him more than he has produced which should make him happy. Most likely he will hit the open market and a team will over pay for him.

[LabattBlue]

Donte is 25 years old and will see the Pro Bowl by the age of 31. He will start his 5th season at 26 years old. He is only going to get better with age, unless injured of course.

Based on what? Does every player continue to get better as they get older? There is nothing in Whitner's play over the last few years to suggest that he is getting significantly better, let alone getting better to the point where he will end up in the Pro Bowl.

 

He is still the same Whitner who is a liability in pass coverage and takes bad tackling angles.

[8-8 Forever?]

and in a year or two if he becomes dominant will you be one of those bleeping that the bills let another star get away?

 

BTW .... he pass defensed against 18 so far..

 

What is the going rate for an average SS?

 

 

he'd like to be paid like a top-five defensive back - about $7 million a season.

NO way , let him walk. We have plenty of guys waiting to take his place. He is pulling a NateClements on us. Let him either take the 5mil or walk. He's no Reed or Troy P. not even close.

[8-8 Forever?]

Based on what? Does every player continue to get better as they get older? There is nothing in Whitner's play over the last few years to suggest that he is getting significantly better, let alone getting better to the point where he will end up in the Pro Bowl.

 

He is still the same Whitner who is a liability in pass coverage and takes bad tackling angles.

That hit and bounce off he made in Miami was terrible. Nice hit Donte, must have felt good.. now tackle the guy to the ground. Oooops. Do that this Sunday and its 6 points.

 

Big mistake bringing your gripes out in the open. Evans and Kelsay played it right. Play hard, keep your mouth shut be a good team guy and you get paid. You may not deserve it based on your play, but you will get the cash.

[CardinalScotts]

If we were loaded on defense you could play Whitner and get away with it. But- of course we are not loaded and he's no better than Wilson or Scott if at all. How often when Scott or Wilson are out there do you think oh I didn't notice Whitner was not out there?- I'll speak for everyone when I say all the time. He's a dime a dozen player with a little extra splash of leadership.

Edited December 24, 2010 by CardinalScotts

[Dawgg]

This reminds me of the arguments for keeping London Fletcher, both men make alot of tackles, cover alot of ground, and play with a high motor...however they do not make alot of game changing/ momentum changing plays to warrent a big contract. Personally I think its a very good offer, if he is committed to the Bills and wants to be here there is a very reasonable contract offer that doesnt break the bank and yet still pays him more than he has produced which should make him happy. Most likely he will hit the open market and a team will over pay for him.

1) None of the fans who knew what they were talking about wanted to run Fletcher out of town.

 

2) Had the Bills selected David Harris instead of Poz in the draft (an obvious decision at the time) they may have been able to fill that vacancy with a playmaker.

 

3) Donte doesn't deserve to be mentioned in the same light as Fletcher.

[San-O]

polamalu makes 8 mil per, ed reed about 7 per, donte should be more than happy with that deal but the bills shot themselves in the foot with the kelsay deal.

 

 

That really seemed like a rookie mistake by a rookie GM, IMO.

 

I understand not wanting to create additional holes, but the Bills aren't going anywhere with guys like Whitner and Kelsay, they're

just not.

 

and in a year or two if he becomes dominant will you be one of those bleeping that the bills let another star get away?

 

BTW .... he pass defensed against 18 so far..

 

What is the going rate for an average SS?

 

 

he'd like to be paid like a top-five defensive back - about $7 million a season.

 

 

Who, Whitner? He's in his 5th season. He's been holding out all this time?

 

[San-O]

If we were loaded on defense you could play Whitner and get away with it. But- of course we are not loaded and he's no better than Wilson or Scott if at all. How often when Scott or Wilson are out there do you think oh I didn't notice Whitner was not out there?- I'll speak for everyone when I say all the time. He's a dime a dozen player with a little extra splash of leadership.

 

 

He wasn't even a starter all of last year, on a 6-10 defense.

 

But he is now however, on the worst D in the league.

 

 

Bills front office blows.

[stony]

1) None of the fans who knew what they were talking about wanted to run Fletcher out of town.

 

2) Had the Bills selected David Harris instead of Poz in the draft (an obvious decision at the time) they may have been able to fill that vacancy with a playmaker.

3) Donte doesn't deserve to be mentioned in the same light as Fletcher.

 

Yeah, because David Harris doesn't benefit from Bart Scott, Kris Jenkins, Shaun Ellis, etc. etc. etc...

[skibum]

That seems like a fair price for both sides. Donte needs to take a step back and see how he really compares to the top-echelon guys in the league. Teams game-plan to deal with guys like Polamalu.

 

If he goes to the FA market, I bet he makes less than the Bills are offering. The stats just aren't there for him, and neither is the reputation.

[BADOLBILZ]

You may be right, but again, how many of the NFL players are "playmakers?"

 

 

Bell signed this deal when he was 31 years old, and is almost 33 now. He was paid on his past performances. He is at the very top of his performance and will not get any better and in fact will continue to decline like he has this year. Donte is 25 years old and will see the Pro Bowl by the age of 31. He will start his 5th season at 26 years old. He is only going to get better with age, unless injured of course. It is the way of the NFL that younger players continue to get more for what they are doing then players have in the past. Am I saying that he should be paid more then $5mil? I cannot answer that. I can only say that Whitner is better then people realize, is a leader on this team as much as Kelsey, and we would be taking a step back to not have him on this team next year.

 

We have 3 great safeties, Wilson, Byrd and Whitner. Why aren't people crying for Youboty to step up, anyway?

 

Donte might get better, but I doubt it. If anything, he has peaked. He came into the league playing at the level he is playing now. His restrictions are size, instincts, and ball skills and those aren't likely to get better.

 

In between that time and now he has had some problems with injuries which I feel are related to him being asked to play like a big SS instead of the small SS he is. That would be a defense, if not for the fact that he is much better in run support than pass defense.

 

And we do have depth at safety as you noted. Last year, in 9 games Bryan Scott had over 100 tackles. He is actually big and tough at the LOS and a good pass rusher. George Wilson had 4 interceptions and a FF last year, but has seen a lot less action this year. These guys can play, and they did play ahead of Whitner a good deal last year. I'm not for letting Whitner walk just for the sake of letting him walk, but all things considered it's hard to justify making a non-impact SS the highest paid player on the defense just so they don't lose him. Would they take a step back without Whitner? If Scott and Wilson continue to contribute big plays in extended time, like they did in 2009, then I don't think you can say that.

[Rico]

Based on what? Does every player continue to get better as they get older? There is nothing in Whitner's play over the last few years to suggest that he is getting significantly better, let alone getting better to the point where he will end up in the Pro Bowl.

 

He is still the same Whitner who is a liability in pass coverage and takes bad tackling angles.

Lil Donte just needs more time.

[Thunderstealer]

Late in last weeks game, Donte tried tackle Brandon Marshall with his shoulder instead of wrapping him up. Of course Marshal bounced off for another six yards.

 

Drayton Florence couldn't believe it. He gave Donte the the WTF shrugg. lol.

[BADOLBILZ]

1) None of the fans who knew what they were talking about wanted to run Fletcher out of town.

 

2) Had the Bills selected David Harris instead of Poz in the draft (an obvious decision at the time) they may have been able to fill that vacancy with a playmaker.

 

3) Donte doesn't deserve to be mentioned in the same light as Fletcher.

 

 

All three statements are correct. People want to defend Whitner using past examples of good players lost. Donte is not on the level of a guy like Fletcher.

 

Fletcher's only crime was not being Brian Urlacher. He was an ultra-durable playmaker(two things Donte is NOT). Fletcher also plays for roughly half the money that Urlacher earns and he is still out there and playing well 4 years later.

 

Donte has been paid in the neighborhood of the best safeties in the league the past 5 seasons, courtesy of overdrafting. Now, he wants to continue to be paid like a star even though he hasn't played like one and even though the true stars make MUCH more than the next level of player, the category where Donte AT BEST falls.

 

One of the mistakes the Bills have repeatedly made is letting a good player walk then immediately using a high pick to replace that guy. They keep getting diminishing returns. Poz clearly isn't as good in pass defense as Fletcher and he has been far from durable. Harris would have been the better pick, but not making the hole in the first place would have been the wiser decision.

 

Letting Whitner go won't create a hole that they would need to fill with an early pick. They have talent at safety that should provide no less than comparable play to what Donte is providing now.

[KOKBILLS]

He is still the same Whitner who is a liability in pass coverage and takes bad tackling angles.

 

Agreed! IMHO this is Lil Donte in a nutshell...

 

I would add he rarely wraps up and instead tries to make that lights-out hit...But he's not that big...And all to often the ball-carrier just bounces off and keeps going...

[NoSaint]

Agreed! IMHO this is Lil Donte in a nutshell...

 

I would add he rarely wraps up and instead tries to make that lights-out hit...But he's not that big...And all to often the ball-carrier just bounces off and keeps going...

 

Could part of his bad angles be that he has played cb, fs, and ss - all with learning curves associated.