Moch Draft with Bills Picking at #12

[1B4IDie]

1 12 Buffalo Anthony Castonzo OT Boston College

2 44 Buffalo Cameron Heyward DE34 Ohio State

3 76 Buffalo Dontay Moch OLB34 Nevada

4 108 Buffalo Nate Irving ILB North Carolina State

4 109 Buffalo Wayne Daniels OLB34 TCU

5 140 Buffalo Preston Dial TE Alabama

6 172 Buffalo Terry Griffin DT34 Elizabeth City State

7 197 Buffalo Greg Salas WRF Hawaii

 

I don't know if Cam Heyward will fall that far but hey Jeremy Beal would be there at 44.

 

I love getting Castonzo, I love getting Heyward, I love love love getting Moch, I love love love love getting Wayne Daniels in the 4th, Terry Griffin is gigantic.

 

Originally QB was ranked 4 but and we got Pat Delvin, QB Delaware in the 4th. I changed the need to 9, I don't think taking a late round QB is going to help this team long or short term. Pat Delvin is this year's unheralded interesting prospect. I would rather have Wayne Daniels in the 4th. Devlin is a guy that can end up being somebody at QB, I don't know if its an upgrade over Brian Brohm though. That would actually be kind of interesting if it did happen though.

 

Preston Dial is an interesting H-Back, I don't know if he would be a good fit, not as good at blocking as Rocky but a better pass catcher. I'm sure he could be a good Special Teamer.

 

For all the "lose out" crowd, this draft looks better than some mocks where we picked in the top5.

 

I would be so excited if the 2011 draft looked like this.

Marshawn Lynch for Wayne Daniels in 3 years would like a steal for the Bills

Edited December 22, 2010 by Why So Serious?

[Magox]

1 12 Buffalo Anthony Castonzo OT Boston College

2 44 Buffalo Cameron Heyward DE34 Ohio State

3 76 Buffalo Dontay Moch OLB34 Nevada

4 108 Buffalo Nate Irving ILB North Carolina State

4 109 Buffalo Wayne Daniels OLB34 TCU

5 140 Buffalo Preston Dial TE Alabama

6 172 Buffalo Terry Griffin DT34 Elizabeth City State

7 197 Buffalo Greg Salas WRF Hawaii

 

I don't know if Cam Heyward will fall that far but hey Jeremy Beal would be there at 44.

 

I love getting Castonzo, I love getting Heyward, I love love love getting Moch, I love love love love getting Wayne Daniels in the 4th, Terry Griffin is gigantic.

 

Originally QB was ranked 4 but and we got Pat Delvin, QB Delaware in the 4th. I changed the need to 9, I don't think taking a late round QB is going to help this team long or short term. Pat Delvin is this year's unheralded interesting prospect. I would rather have Wayne Daniels in the 4th. Devlin is a guy that can end up being somebody at QB, I don't know if its an upgrade over Brian Brohm.

 

Preston Dial is an interesting H-Back, I don't know if he would be a good fit, not as good at blocking as Rocky but a better pass catcher. I'm sure he could be a good Special Teamer.

 

For all the "lose out" crowd, this draft looks better than some mocks where we picked in the top5.

 

I would be so excited if the 2011 draft looked this.

Marshawn Lynch for Wayne Daniels in 3 years would like a steal.

Remember when you said Quinn wasn't able to get sacks against quality opponents?

 

Take a look at this

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kqJrjwjf55c

 

Does that count?

[1B4IDie]

Remember when you said Quinn wasn't able to get sacks against quality opponents?

 

Take a look at this

 

 

youtube.com/watch?v=kqJrjwjf55c

 

Does that count?

 

What I quoted was this:

 

At first glance, his stats appear to be great; 52 tackles, 11 sacks Sophomore year. But let's take a closer look. Let's divide the stats from all of the North Carolina games last year based on the strength of the teams Quinn played against. Against The Citadel, East Carolina, Virginia, Georgia Southern, Duke, Boston College, and North Carolina State (7 games), he got ALL of his 11 sacks and 33 of his tackles; against Virginia Tech, Pittsburgh, Florida State, Miami, Connecticut, and Georgia Tech (6 games), he got a mere 19 tackles and 0 sacks! That is a staggering dispersion of stats between teams he played! He made absolutely no impact in games against good teams, yet he dominated against bad teams.

 

And what I said is

 

Robert Quinn is a gifted athletic but this franchise doesn't need to risk its 1st round pick on a player that has been sitting on the couch watching football for the 8 months leading up to the draft.

 

And I still stand by that.

 

Because we're not in the Top 10, taking the best NFL RT at #12 isn't a horrible reach.

 

Also because we're picking #12 in this draft, we don't have to worry about it, Robert Quinn went #9 to the Washington Redskins. Quinn and Orakpo is trouble for the NFC East.

 

Here is the first 3 rounds if anyone is interested:

 

 

1 Carolina Andrew Luck QB Stanford

2 Cincinnati Nick Fairley DT43 Auburn

3 Denver Da'Quan Bowers DE34 Clemson

4 Detroit Prince Amukamara CB Nebraska

5 Arizona Patrick Peterson CB LSU

6 Dallas Marcell Dareus DE34 Alabama

7 Tennessee Bruce Carter OLB43 North Carolina

8 San Francisco A.J. Green WRF Georgia

9 Washington Robert Quinn OLB34 North Carolina

10 Cleveland Julio Jones WRF Alabama

11 Houston Derek Sherrod OT Mississippi State

12 Buffalo Anthony Castonzo OT Boston College

13 Seattle Cameron Newton QB Auburn

14 Minnesota DeMarcus Love OT Arkansas

15 St Louis Justin Blackmon WRF Oklahoma State

16 New England Cameron Jordan DE34 California

17 Miami Mark Ingram RBF Alabama

18 Indianapolis Stephen Paea DT43 Oregon State

19 Kansas City Stefen Wisniewski OC Penn State

20 San Diego Akeem Ayers ILB UCLA

21 Tampa Bay Adrian Clayborn DE43 Iowa

22 Jacksonville Greg Jones ILB Michigan State

23 Green Bay Von Miller OLB34 Texas A&M

24 Chicago Brandon Harris CB Miami (FL)

25 NY Giants J.J. Watt DE34 Wisconsin

26 NY Jets Marcus Cannon OG TCU

27 Philadelphia Jason Pinkston OG Pittsburgh

28 Baltimore Janoris Jenkins CB Florida

29 New Orleans Kyle Rudolph TE Notre Dame

30 Pittsburgh Gabe Carimi OT Wisconsin

31 Atlanta D.J. Williams TE Arkansas

32 New England Michael Floyd WRF Notre Dame

33 New England Nate Solder OT Colorado

34 Cincinnati Ahmad Black FS Florida

35 Denver Travis Lewis ILB Oklahoma

36 Detroit Justin Houston DE43 Georgia

37 Arizona Ryan Mallett QB Arkansas

38 Dallas Jimmy Smith CB Colorado

39 Tennessee Drake Nevis DT43 LSU

40 San Francisco Jake Locker QB Washington

41 Washington Jonathan Baldwin WRF Pittsburgh

42 Cleveland Ryan Kerrigan OLB34 Purdue

43 Houston Mark Barron FS Alabama

44 Buffalo Cameron Heyward DE34 Ohio State

45 Seattle Allen Bailey DE43 Miami (FL)

46 Minnesota Colin Kaepernick QB Nevada

47 St Louis Mikel LeShoure RBF Illinois

48 Oakland Corey Liuget DT43 Illinois

49 Denver Jerrell Powe DT34 Mississippi

50 Indianapolis Orlando Franklin OT Miami (FL)

51 Kansas City Torrey Smith WRF Maryland

52 San Diego Tyler Sash FS Iowa

53 Tampa Bay Martez Wilson ILB Illinois

54 Jacksonville Shane Vereen RBF California

55 Green Bay Kendall Hunter RBC Oklahoma State

56 Chicago Jake Kirkpatrick OC TCU

57 NY Giants Ryan Williams RBF Virginia Tech

58 NY Jets Quan Sturdivant ILB North Carolina

59 Philadelphia Jeremy Beal DE43 Oklahoma

60 Baltimore Ryan Broyles WRS Oklahoma

61 New Orleans Jordan Todman RBF Connecticut

62 Pittsburgh Brandon Burton CB Utah

63 Atlanta Matt Reynolds OT BYU

64 New England Davon House CB New Mexico State

65 Carolina Sione Fua DT43 Stanford

66 Cincinnati Rodney Hudson OG Florida State

67 Denver Lance Kendricks TE Wisconsin

68 Detroit Mike Pouncey OG Florida

69 Arizona James Carpenter OT Alabama

70 Dallas Colin McCarthy ILB Miami (FL)

71 Tennessee Luke Stocker TE Tennessee

72 San Francisco Aaron Williams CB Texas

73 Washington Kristofer O'Dowd OC USC

74 Cleveland Tank Carder ILB TCU

75 Houston Courtney Upshaw ILB Alabama

76 Buffalo Dontay Moch OLB34 Nevada

77 San Diego Leonard Hankerson WRF Miami (FL)

78 New England DeMarco Murray RBF Oklahoma

79 St Louis Mason Foster OLB43 Washington

80 Oakland Andy Dalton QB TCU

81 Miami Tim Barnes OC Missouri

82 Indianapolis Benjamin Ijalana OG Villanova

83 Kansas City Kendrick Ellis DT34 Hampton

84 San Diego Christian Ballard DE34 Iowa

85 Tampa Bay Daniel Thomas RBF Kansas State

86 Jacksonville Austin Pettis WRF Boise State

87 Green Bay Don'ta Hightower ILB Alabama

88 Chicago Brian Lainhart FS Kent State

89 NY Giants Ras-I Dowling CB Virginia

90 San Diego Aldon Smith OLB34 Missouri

91 Philadelphia Lavonte David SS Nebraska

92 Baltimore Dwayne Harris WRF East Carolina

93 New Orleans Rahim Moore FS UCLA

94 Pittsburgh DeAndre McDaniel SS Clemson

95 Atlanta Danny Watkins OG Baylor

96 New England Kelvin Sheppard ILB LSU

Edited December 22, 2010 by Why So Serious?

[Magox]

What I quoted was this:

 

At first glance, his stats appear to be great; 52 tackles, 11 sacks Sophomore year. But let's take a closer look. Let's divide the stats from all of the North Carolina games last year based on the strength of the teams Quinn played against. Against The Citadel, East Carolina, Virginia, Georgia Southern, Duke, Boston College, and North Carolina State (7 games), he got ALL of his 11 sacks and 33 of his tackles; against Virginia Tech, Pittsburgh, Florida State, Miami, Connecticut, and Georgia Tech (6 games), he got a mere 19 tackles and 0 sacks! That is a staggering dispersion of stats between teams he played! He made absolutely no impact in games against good teams, yet he dominated against bad teams.

 

 

But of course this implies that he wasn't able to get sacks against quality players right? I would also imagine that in your view Castonzo is a quality player?

 

Just in that clip alone, against a player who you view as the top tackle in the draft, Quinn racked up a sack, drew a holding call, made two inside power rush moves that created pressure that caused two interceptions and had two other QB pressures which one led to a sack.

 

I'd say on the passing plays, Castonzo was abused by Quinn. I'd much rather have Quinn than Castonzo, it is quite clear that Quinn is the dominant player out of the two.

Edited December 22, 2010 by Magox

[1B4IDie]

But of course this implies that he wasn't able to get sacks against quality players right? I would also imagine that in your view Castonzo is a quality player?

 

Just in that clip alone, against a player who you view as the top tackle in the draft, Quinn racked up a sack, drew a holding call, made two inside power rush moves that created pressure that caused two interceptions and had two other QB pressures which one led to a sack.

 

I'd say on the passing plays, Castonzo was abused by Quinn. I'd much rather have Quinn than Castonzo, it is quite clear that Quinn is the dominant player out of the two.

That may have been true in the year 2009.

 

Do you think players get better over time in college?

 

Castonzo spent a year honing his craft and improving while Quinn spent a year eating Pringles.

 

Nice try though.

 

In this draft we take Demarcus Love instead of Castonzo would that make you happy?

Edited December 22, 2010 by Why So Serious?

[JStranger76]

How will we pick 12th though? Tradedown? I'm calling 6th.

[1B4IDie]

How will we pick 12th though? Tradedown? I'm calling 6th.

When we beat the S-U-C-Ks and go 5-11, with out Strength of Schedule we'll probably pick #12.

[flmike]

Remember when you said Quinn wasn't able to get sacks against quality opponents?

 

Take a look at this

 

 

youtube.com/watch?v=kqJrjwjf55c

 

Does that count?

 

Makes you really want Costanzo doesn't it?

[1B4IDie]

Makes you really want Costanzo doesn't it?

I'm sure he has bad games in 2008 or 2007 you can pull some High School games too.

 

Who cares. I'd be happy with Costanzo or Love at RT. Its really splitting hairs at this point. Love has a reputation for being nasty.

 

However One game in 2009 isn't the whole story on a player.

[Magox]

That may have been true in the year 2009.

 

Do you think players get better over time in college?

 

Castonzo spent a year honing his craft and improving while Quinn spent a year eating Pringles.

 

Nice try though.

 

In this draft we take Demarcus Love instead of Castonzo would that make you happy?

I didn't try anything, I was just showing your top pick getting abused by the guy you were criticizing.

 

To answer your question, yes I absolutely believe that players get better over time. Having said that, I'm pretty sure that if they were to match up again against each other, the outcome wouldn't be all that different. Remember, I watch the ACC as Carolina is my favorite team, and I'm telling you right now, Quinn is a beast.

 

You have to admit, on the pass plays, Castonzo was dominated and that has to be cause for concern.

[billsfan89]

Isn't it almost impossible for us to be picking 12th even if we win out? Also I would be shocked to see a split happen let alone a sweep. If we win out we finish 6-10 its unlikely we will be finishing outside the top 10. I think that we will finish with a top 7-5 pick. Far from the 1st overall but still well into the top 10. All in all I can't see us beating a Pats* team probably playing the best football in all the league and then going away to beat a very good Jets team that is likely going to need that game to clinch the playoffs.

 

And if we win out that leaves us at 6-10 last year we were 6-10 and finished with the 9th pick.

 

Isn't it almost impossible for us to be picking 12th even if we win out? Also I would be shocked to see a split happen let alone a sweep. If we win out we finish 6-10 its unlikely we will be finishing outside the top 10. I think that we will finish with a top 7-5 pick. Far from the 1st overall but still well into the top 10. All in all I can't see us beating a Pats* team probably playing the best football in all the league and then going away to beat a very good Jets team that is likely going to need that game to clinch the playoffs.

 

And if we win out that leaves us at 6-10 last year we were 6-10 and finished with the 9th pick.

[1B4IDie]

I didn't try anything, I was just showing your top pick getting abused by the guy you were criticizing.

 

To answer your question, yes I absolutely believe that players get better over time. Having said that, I'm pretty sure that if they were to match up again against each other, the outcome wouldn't be all that different. Remember, I watch the ACC as Carolina is my favorite team, and I'm telling you right now, Quinn is a beast.

 

You have to admit, on the pass plays, Castonzo was dominated and that has to be cause for concern.

 

Definitely cause for concern.

 

Again would Demarcus Love make you feel better in this mock?

 

I didn't hand pick the picks, its a simulator. I'm not married to Costanzo if you think he is a scrub, I'll take your word for it.

I have watched a lot of Arkansas this year to watch Ryan Mallet and Love would be a great addition to the Bills.

 

I would have hand picked the Wayne Daniels and the Moch pick though.

Edited December 22, 2010 by Why So Serious?

[Magox]

Definitely cause for concern.

 

Again would Demarcus Love make you feel better in this mock?

 

I didn't hand pick the picks, its a simulator. I'm not married to Costanzo if you think he is a scrub, I'll take your word for it.

I have watched a lot of Arkansas this year to watch Ryan Mallet and Love would be a great addition to the Bills.

 

I would have hand picked the Wayne Daniels and the Moch pick though.

No, I'm not saying Costanzo is a scrub, he may of just had a bad game, plus as you noted he had another year in college and he went up arguably the top DE in the conference. Costanzo received a lot of accolades this year, and I know that wasn't for nothing.

 

I really don't know enough about Demarcus Love to have an informed opinion.

 

I happen to believe that this years draft is loaded with D Linemen, and I'd like for us to get the top lineman available. At this stage of the game and this will most likely change as we get closer to the draft, I'd go after Bowers, Fairley or Quinn and in that order. Even if those three are off the board by the time the Bills pick there are a few others that are top ten worthy.

[1B4IDie]

Isn't it almost impossible for us to be picking 12th even if we win out? Also I would be shocked to see a split happen let alone a sweep. If we win out we finish 6-10 its unlikely we will be finishing outside the top 10. I think that we will finish with a top 7-5 pick. Far from the 1st overall but still well into the top 10. All in all I can't see us beating a Pats* team probably playing the best football in all the league and then going away to beat a very good Jets team that is likely going to need that game to clinch the playoffs.

 

And if we win out that leaves us at 6-10 last year we were 6-10 and finished with the 9th pick.

 

Isn't it almost impossible for us to be picking 12th even if we win out? Also I would be shocked to see a split happen let alone a sweep. If we win out we finish 6-10 its unlikely we will be finishing outside the top 10. I think that we will finish with a top 7-5 pick. Far from the 1st overall but still well into the top 10. All in all I can't see us beating a Pats* team probably playing the best football in all the league and then going away to beat a very good Jets team that is likely going to need that game to clinch the playoffs.

 

And if we win out that leaves us at 6-10 last year we were 6-10 and finished with the 9th pick.

 

There are 15 teams that have 6 wins or worse right now. The Bills have the worst\best Strength of Schedule meaning we are going to lose all tie breaks.

There are 12 teams that have 5 wins or worse now.

 

If we won out its likely we would pick outside the Top 10.

 

This draft is showing worst\best case draft scenario if we beat the NJ Jets.

 

And it looks pretty great to me.

 

No, I'm not saying Costanzo is a scrub, he may of just had a bad game, plus as you noted he had another year in college and he went up arguably the top DE in the conference. Costanzo received a lot of accolades this year, and I know that wasn't for nothing.

 

I really don't know enough about Demarcus Love to have an informed opinion.

 

I happen to believe that this years draft is loaded with D Linemen, and I'd like for us to get the top lineman available. At this stage of the game and this will most likely change as we get closer to the draft, I'd go after Bowers, Fairley or Quinn and in that order. Even if those three are off the board by the time the Bills pick there are a few others that are top ten worthy.

 

In this specific scenario with those 3 off the board who would you take at #12?

 

I'd be fine with Clayborn.

 

Really there is a lot of talent here, it would take a Buffalo Billian first round flop detector to screw it up.

 

1 Carolina Andrew Luck QB Stanford

2 Cincinnati Nick Fairley DT43 Auburn

3 Denver Da'Quan Bowers DE34 Clemson

4 Detroit Prince Amukamara CB Nebraska

5 Arizona Patrick Peterson CB LSU

6 Dallas Marcell Dareus DE34 Alabama

7 Tennessee Bruce Carter OLB43 North Carolina

8 San Francisco A.J. Green WRF Georgia

9 Washington Robert Quinn OLB34 North Carolina

10 Cleveland Julio Jones WRF Alabama

11 Houston Derek Sherrod OT Mississippi State

12 Buffalo Anthony Castonzo OT Boston College

13 Seattle Cameron Newton QB Auburn

14 Minnesota DeMarcus Love OT Arkansas

15 St Louis Justin Blackmon WRF Oklahoma State

16 New England Cameron Jordan DE34 California

17 Miami Mark Ingram RBF Alabama

18 Indianapolis Stephen Paea DT43 Oregon State

19 Kansas City Stefen Wisniewski OC Penn State

20 San Diego Akeem Ayers ILB UCLA

21 Tampa Bay Adrian Clayborn DE43 Iowa

22 Jacksonville Greg Jones ILB Michigan State

23 Green Bay Von Miller OLB34 Texas A&M

[Magox]

There are 15 teams that have 6 wins or worse right now. The Bills have the worst\best Strength of Schedule meaning we are going to lose all tie breaks.

There are 12 teams that have 5 wins or worse now.

 

If we won out its likely we would pick outside the Top 10.

 

This draft is showing worst\best case draft scenario if we beat the NJ Jets.

 

And it looks pretty great to me.

 

 

 

In this specific scenario with those 3 off the board who would you take at #12?

 

I'd be fine with Clayborn.

 

Really there is a lot of talent here, it would take a Buffalo Billian first round flop detector to screw it up.

 

1 Carolina Andrew Luck QB Stanford

2 Cincinnati Nick Fairley DT43 Auburn

3 Denver Da'Quan Bowers DE34 Clemson

4 Detroit Prince Amukamara CB Nebraska

5 Arizona Patrick Peterson CB LSU

6 Dallas Marcell Dareus DE34 Alabama

7 Tennessee Bruce Carter OLB43 North Carolina

8 San Francisco A.J. Green WRF Georgia

9 Washington Robert Quinn OLB34 North Carolina

10 Cleveland Julio Jones WRF Alabama

11 Houston Derek Sherrod OT Mississippi State

12 Buffalo Anthony Castonzo OT Boston College

13 Seattle Cameron Newton QB Auburn

14 Minnesota DeMarcus Love OT Arkansas

15 St Louis Justin Blackmon WRF Oklahoma State

16 New England Cameron Jordan DE34 California

17 Miami Mark Ingram RBF Alabama

18 Indianapolis Stephen Paea DT43 Oregon State

19 Kansas City Stefen Wisniewski OC Penn State

20 San Diego Akeem Ayers ILB UCLA

21 Tampa Bay Adrian Clayborn DE43 Iowa

22 Jacksonville Greg Jones ILB Michigan State

23 Green Bay Von Miller OLB34 Texas A&M

I like Clayborn, very physical DE with a hellacious forearm shiver.

 

Moats and Clayborn on the edges passing the rusher sounds good to me. I'd rather have Bowers, but Clayborn would do just fine.

[whodat]

Impressive! You guys handled these apparent immovable positions with such superior negotiating skill and ease.

that

I want to be the first to nominate you both to the future arbitration panel that I am sure will become a popular feature of this site.

 

Seriously. But not so seriously. Why did I post this? I was moved. Really I was. And I just want to add, though unrelated but seems apropos in giving this post more purpose, that the expression ‘having said that’ should be outlawed. I beseech the Future Arbitration panel which is yous. Please make a ruling.

 

Having said that, oh never mind. This was probably a bad idea.

 

Can we have both Castanso and Quinn. But Castanso sounds too much like that guy on Seinfeld. Oh there I go again.

 

But that was a good debate!

[The Tomcat]

Quinn has a Bruce Smith look about him...

[Magox]

Impressive! You guys handled these apparent immovable positions with such superior negotiating skill and ease.

that

I want to be the first to nominate you both to the future arbitration panel that I am sure will become a popular feature of this site.

 

Seriously. But not so seriously. Why did I post this? I was moved. Really I was. And I just want to add, though unrelated but seems apropos in giving this post more purpose, that the expression ‘having said that’ should be outlawed. I beseech the Future Arbitration panel which is yous. Please make a ruling.

 

Having said that, oh never mind. This was probably a bad idea.

 

Can we have both Castanso and Quinn. But Castanso sounds too much like that guy on Seinfeld. Oh there I go again.

 

But that was a good debate!

[dailar]

Seriously if we are picking at 12 and we dont take Von Miller I would be gutted.

[3rdnlng]

I like Clayborn, very physical DE with a hellacious forearm shiver.

 

Moats and Clayborn on the edges passing the rusher sounds good to me. I'd rather have Bowers, but Clayborn would do just fine.

 

Why would you want them to play so poorly against the rush?