Travis Posted December 21, 2010 Posted December 21, 2010 Actually it's not. RB is the position with the shortest learning curve and rookie RBs have traditionally had a high rate of return in their rookie year. Almost no matter where you take them. 2nd RD RBs (MJD comes to mind) have been as productive as 1st, even 3rd and 4th rounders. Hell, even UDFA like Freddie. Which is why the RB position is the most overrated position in the modern NFL. You can find them ANYWHERE for cheap. The days of the single work horse RB are over. It's a tandem now. A cheap tandem. Which is why picking a RB with the number 9 pick, no matter how good he is, when you already had 2 Pro Bowl caliber backs on the roster and multiple gaping holes at several key positions was a catastrophic f*&k-up for the front office. But they made the choice, so we have to deal with it. But then to take the 9th pick and NOT play him is even worse. The kid should be learning on the field, especially when your team is a miserable 4-10 and has no shot at the playoffs. CJ Spiller has been a huge disappointment in his rookie year. There's no other way to color it. He needed to come in and be a game breaker from day one to validate the pick by the front office. He didn't. Don't make excuses now. That doesn't mean he won't become a good back. But it's not a good sign that he is taking this long to adjust when RB is the easiest position to adjust to in the NFL. As history has repeatedly shown. +1
Dorkington Posted December 21, 2010 Posted December 21, 2010 CJ is a big fat bust so far. But, he has a few more years to change that into being a big fat success. He has the physical tools, he just needs to read the defense and see running lanes better.
BillsfaninFl Posted December 21, 2010 Posted December 21, 2010 Spiller as quitly gained 1331.4 all purpose yards this year with two games left. The remaining two game could easily amount to another 200 yards, for a projected total of 1500 +. Not to bad I would say with his limited role. Just an opinion. Make that 351 yards rushing and receiving with low average gains. Your spin on the numbers is decieving.
silvermike Posted December 21, 2010 Posted December 21, 2010 Make that 351 yards rushing and receiving with low average gains. Your spin on the numbers is decieving. And even if he did hit 1500 all purpose yards, that's still more than 1000 fewer yards than Fred Jackson had last year.
beatlebum Posted December 21, 2010 Posted December 21, 2010 he was horrible out of the backfield against the dolphins. i realize the entire run game was ineffective and chan said the o-line blew the schemes, but there were a few times where he could have squared his shoulders through a soft little seam for 3 - 5, but instead he just fiddle-faddled himself laterally, then backwards. he's got to learn he can make it to the second level between the tackles, not just around the end. he also takes too long to try to make people miss. he needs to be more efficient, like freddy.
34-78-83 Posted December 21, 2010 Posted December 21, 2010 Spiller was drafted for the future. No it was not a ploy by Ralph to sell tickets. What he does this year is gravy. I can't prove it but it's pretty clear to me and many other reasonably level-headed Bills fans I'm betting if you put a gun to their heads Gailey and Nix would still be happy if Spiller didn't see the field at all this season.
DreReed83 Posted December 21, 2010 Posted December 21, 2010 (edited) Spiller was drafted for the future. No it was not a ploy by Ralph to sell tickets. What he does this year is gravy. I can't prove it but it's pretty clear to me and many other reasonably level-headed Bills fans I'm betting if you put a gun to their heads Gailey and Nix would still be happy if Spiller didn't see the field at all this season. If you wanna draft a RB for the FUTURE, then don't waste a top 10 draft pick for it. That's just fckin retarded. You're saying we're paying a RB all that money so he can be used in the future? That is the biggest load of crp I've ever heard. No team would take a RB in the top 10 and save him for the future. If you wanna draft a RB for the future, then you do it in the later rounds, not with a top 10 pick. Unless you're a QB, u take a player in the top 10 to play NOW. I've heard it all. If you're a RB that was taken in the top 10, and you're not on the field, then you're not doing your job. Coaches won't SAVE a secret weapon for the future. This is how it works... You do well in training camp, and in practice. You get playing time. You improve in games, then coach will give you more carries. That's just how the game operates. You honestly think the Vikings would've "SAVED" Peterson for the future? You think the Saints would've SAVED Bush for the future? Edited December 21, 2010 by DreReed83
34-78-83 Posted December 21, 2010 Posted December 21, 2010 If you wanna draft a RB for the FUTURE, then don't waste a top 10 draft pick for it. That's just fckin retarded. You're saying we're paying a RB all that money so he can be used in the future? That is the biggest load of crp I've ever heard. No team would take a RB in the top 10 and save him for the future. If you wanna draft a RB for the future, then you do it in the later rounds, not with a top 10 pick. Unless you're a QB, u take a player in the top 10 to play NOW. I've heard it all. If you're a RB that was taken in the top 10, and you're not on the field, then you're not doing your job. Coaches won't SAVE a secret weapon for the future. This is how it works... You do well in training camp, and in practice. You get playing time. You improve in games, then coach will give you more carries. That's just how the game operates. You honestly think the Vikings would've "SAVED" Peterson for the future? You think the Saints would've SAVED Bush for the future? I don't think they'd admit it, but yes he was drafted for the future and was the best player available and a game breaker type of play-maker...Yes better than the 3rd Tackle. They knew they weren't going anywhere this year, and money was certainly not an issue. Again, many reasonable fans I know agree... not all mind you. Bush was not drafted to be a savior in year one either.
DreReed83 Posted December 21, 2010 Posted December 21, 2010 (edited) I don't think they'd admit it, but yes he was drafted for the future and was the best player available and a game breaker type of play-maker...Yes better than the 3rd Tackle. They knew they weren't going anywhere this year, and money was certainly not an issue. Again, many reasonable fans I know agree... not all mind you. Bush was not drafted to be a savior in year one either. If you truly believe this then I feel really really really really really sorry for you. No team in their right mind would EVER save a RB for the future like that. If you produce you play. Not that difficult to comprehend. He wasn't the best player available, Dez Bryant was, and he's outproduced him in ever way possible. Punt returns, touchdowns, and it's MUCH harder to produce as a rookie WR than it is for a rookie RB. So save yourself that bullsht. YOU BRINGING UP BUSH??? REGGIE BUSH - 565 YDS RUSHING, 742 RDS RECEIVING, 88 RECEPTIONS, 8 TDS. CJ SPILLER - 248 YDS RUSHING, 22 RECEPTIONS, 103 YDS AND 1 TD Almost twice as many rushing yds, about 6 times more receiving yds, 4 times more receptions, and 8 times more TD's. Saints didn't hold back in using Bush. TRUST ME. Saints found ways to get Bush on the field because they knew he could play. Not because they were "saving him for the future." That is the DUMBEST thing I've EVER heard in my entire life. Edited December 21, 2010 by DreReed83
NickelCity Posted December 21, 2010 Posted December 21, 2010 This thread is getting pretty funny. Either you think Spiller will pan out or he wont. I think he'll turn out to be a stellar player.
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted December 21, 2010 Posted December 21, 2010 I would love to see them put freddie on the shelf for the Jets and Pats to give CJ more of that coveted game time expereince. They know what Jackson can do and I trust he still comes in next camp as the #1 guy but Get CJ more snaps to develop him.
tennesseeboy Posted December 21, 2010 Posted December 21, 2010 Spiller hasn't proven anything yet. Potential won't even get you cheap coffee at McDonald's. When he produces he'll get kudos, but I'm waiting to see what he's worth. As I said before...he's a bust until he's not a bust. I'll be happy if gets over 100 yards a game in the next two games or if he produces a very good season next year...but being a 9 pick and highly paid doesn't cut the mustard.
Mr. WEO Posted December 21, 2010 Posted December 21, 2010 Little difference in the two OLs? Ask Bill which RB he would rather have? The Bills and the pats have nearly identical rushing numbers this year. It can't be that thier O-line is superior in run blocking. Nope--the difference is in the value we got from a 1st round RB vs a guy like Woodhead. Drafting a RB in the first round is foolish--unless he is the last position of weakness you need to fill.
34-78-83 Posted December 21, 2010 Posted December 21, 2010 If you truly believe this then I feel really really really really really sorry for you. No team in their right mind would EVER save a RB for the future like that. If you produce you play. Not that difficult to comprehend. He wasn't the best player available, Dez Bryant was, and he's outproduced him in ever way possible. Punt returns, touchdowns, and it's MUCH harder to produce as a rookie WR than it is for a rookie RB. So save yourself that bullsht. YOU BRINGING UP BUSH??? REGGIE BUSH - 565 YDS RUSHING, 742 RDS RECEIVING, 88 RECEPTIONS, 8 TDS. CJ SPILLER - 248 YDS RUSHING, 22 RECEPTIONS, 103 YDS AND 1 TD Almost twice as many rushing yds, about 6 times more receiving yds, 4 times more receptions, and 8 times more TD's. Saints didn't hold back in using Bush. TRUST ME. Saints found ways to get Bush on the field because they knew he could play. Not because they were "saving him for the future." That is the DUMBEST thing I've EVER heard in my entire life. Sorry , Still think what I'm saying is true. Your capital letters, name-calling and stats didn't convince me otherwise. Also, nowhere did I say they were "saving him" re: Spiller or Bush... If he got on the field, so be it... If not so much, that's ok too. because they knew they weren't winning football games this year. This is the 1st year of an actual building project. Something that hasn't been attempted since early in the Donahoe era. It's been patches and band-aids since then. And Bush wasn't forced on the field either, but they didn't know about the quality of the other backs there quite yet in his 1st year. Anyway, I'm quite sure of what I'm saying being true... as sure as one can be without working in the organization.
DreReed83 Posted December 21, 2010 Posted December 21, 2010 Sorry , Still think what I'm saying is true. Your capital letters, name-calling and stats didn't convince me otherwise. Also, nowhere did I say they were "saving him" re: Spiller or Bush... If he got on the field, so be it... If not so much, that's ok too. because they knew they weren't winning football games this year. This is the 1st year of an actual building project. Something that hasn't been attempted since early in the Donahoe era. It's been patches and band-aids since then. And Bush wasn't forced on the field either, but they didn't know about the quality of the other backs there quite yet in his 1st year. Anyway, I'm quite sure of what I'm saying being true... as sure as one can be without working in the organization. I could care less what you think cuz i KNOW you're wrong. That's the difference. I KNOW you're wrong. You THINK you're right. Whatever. You brought up Bush in comparison to the situation here. And my point was that he wasn't being saved for anything. That's the difference between your posts and mine. I back up my statements with facts, and you keep feeding this bullsht of stuff you can't even prove and just doesn't make sense. Lastly i never namecalled. I called you posts dumb, which they are, but never did i insult YOU. Whether the team is winning or not, players who produce get on the field. No team SAVES players for the future. This concept you have is just mindblowing. It really is.
billsfreak Posted December 21, 2010 Posted December 21, 2010 Spiller not doing to Bad!!! He isn't doing too good either!!!!! Sounds like alot of yards, but when you have a defense that for awhile was giving up at least 40 points a game, that is a lot of kick returns, of which your average return man gets 25-30 yards on every return. Bottom line so far, he is one of if not the biggest bust from the entire first round of the 2010 NFL Draft, if not the draft in it's entirety.
34-78-83 Posted December 21, 2010 Posted December 21, 2010 I could care less what you think cuz i KNOW you're wrong. That's the difference. I KNOW you're wrong. You THINK you're right. Whatever. You brought up Bush in comparison to the situation here. And my point was that he wasn't being saved for anything. That's the difference between your posts and mine. I back up my statements with facts, and you keep feeding this bullsht of stuff you can't even prove and just doesn't make sense. Lastly i never namecalled. I called you posts dumb, which they are, but never did i insult YOU. Whether the team is winning or not, players who produce get on the field. No team SAVES players for the future. This concept you have is just mindblowing. It really is. Nah... I would never say I "know" . I'll leave that to you. You can't back up what you're saying about Spiller as fact just the same. Not one thing you said proves that. Saying you know doesn't cut it. It's not a tough concept really... You organize a business plan within your organization to regain a measure of long term success. A draft pick comes a long that is a game-breaker whom you think will help you greatly as that plan comes to life, even though you already have a couple really good guys at his position. He is rated higher on your draft board by a mile than any other player thats up there still....so you take him. As you begin to implement season 1 of the plan, you are not too concerned with wether he is approved by fans with little to no attention span or long term view. You hope he gets in there, learns a little, get's used to the speed of the NFL. Your goal however is for him to be ready when your team is ready to make a run for real contention. And please don't generalize about my posts... I've seen hundreds of you come and go since the early days of this board. Move on to something else if my opinion or concept is too mindblowing for you to jive with. Opinions are encouraged here. So in saying that, I understand your 'opinion' and if you have nothing to add then just move on.
Cash Posted December 21, 2010 Posted December 21, 2010 I'd also like to point out that Spiller's return numbers are okay, but not great. His kickoff return average is 24.3 with 1 TD. Among players with at least 10 returns, his average ranks 20th. 15 players have returned at least 1 kickoff for a TD, and 21 total kickoffs have been returned for TDs. Spiller has 2 kickoff returns of 40+ yards (including the TD), which ties him for 17th in the league. Purely as a kickoff returner, Spiller is about average. On punts, he's done a little better, but with a very small sample size. His average is 14.6 with a long of 34. Among players with at least 9 returns (Spiller has only returned 9 punts so far), that average ranks 5th. Three of Spiller's 9 returns have been for 20+ yards, which is probably the second-highest percentage in the league*, and probably won't hold up. Still, his 3 20+ yard returns rank him tied for 9th in the league. No 40+ yard returns or TDs to date. *Bryan McCann, who took over punt returns for Dallas when Dez Bryant got hurt, has been sick. He's only returned 4 punts, but 1 was a 97 yard TD and two others went over 20 yards. He's currently averaging 34.5 yards a return. I don't expect either that average or his 75% rate of 20+ yard returns to hold up. NFL.com stats
silvermike Posted December 21, 2010 Posted December 21, 2010 Nah... I would never say I "know" . I'll leave that to you. You can't back up what you're saying about Spiller as fact just the same. Not one thing you said proves that. Saying you know doesn't cut it. It's not a tough concept really... You organize a business plan within your organization to regain a measure of long term success. A draft pick comes a long that is a game-breaker whom you think will help you greatly as that plan comes to life, even though you already have a couple really good guys at his position. He is rated higher on your draft board by a mile than any other player thats up there still....so you take him. As you begin to implement season 1 of the plan, you are not too concerned with wether he is approved by fans with little to no attention span or long term view. You hope he gets in there, learns a little, get's used to the speed of the NFL. Your goal however is for him to be ready when your team is ready to make a run for real contention. And please don't generalize about my posts... I've seen hundreds of you come and go since the early days of this board. Move on to something else if my opinion or concept is too mindblowing for you to jive with. Opinions are encouraged here. So in saying that, I understand your 'opinion' and if you have nothing to add then just move on. I think this is a good point - the coaching staff didn't bring him in this year to be the focal point of the offense, but to bring him along and get him ready to be a long-term weapon. I'm fine with that, but the problem is that I think even that plan is severely behind schedule given Spiller's performance this year. I think it's okay that he hasn't taken the job away from Fred Jackson, but right now, he's really struggling to move the ball forward at all. There are excuses - he's adjusting, the line isn't opening holes for him, etc. And they're accurate. But even given those factors, his play has been hugely disappointing. RBs who look that bad in their first years rarely turn it around as they mature (There are a lot of William Greens for every Darren McFadden). I'm not going to rake Chix over the coals for the selection, sometimes you have to swing for the homerun, and they made a lot of other good moves that can excuse it. But I hope that their first draft pick turns it around next year.
Cookiemonster Posted December 21, 2010 Posted December 21, 2010 I don't put too much stock in pre-season performances (otherwise Joique Bell would be a Pro Bowler), or what Gailey said after a pre-season game. Spiller was met in the backfield 4 times against the Dols. That's on the O-line, not Spiller. Very good point, the offensive line, although a bit better since Wood took over center, has not gotten any push in ions, and if that is not obvious to anybody watching a Bills game, then I will let you borrow my glasses. Jackson didn't do much better against the fins, or all year for that matter, and that is not an indightment on Freddy.
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