A Few Thoughts About The Game

[bill in Livonia]

Hi Bill, Mostly I agree with your post, but did you notice that Wood seems to be an upgrade at center.

Wrotto is improving. Maybe we havr a good start at an "O" line.

 

 

 

1) Fitz might not have had his best statistical game yesterday, but a couple of those throws were the nicest I have ever seen him make. This would include both touchdowns, and a particular sideline pattern to Nelson.

 

2) He doesn't show up on the game stat sheet, but I saw Troup penetrating, and we really must hope that he develops more as the season closes.

 

3) I think that this game brought us closer to the realization that the OT position is hurting. I know, Bell was hurt last year, he is green, etc. But, the sack that he gave up to Misi (who admittedly looks like a monster), almost got Fitzy killed. And, there was a lack of running room all day.

 

4) It is official. I am a fan of Reggie Corner. Random statement? Sure, but he does what is asked of him. I freaked out when he was drafted (the position AND name), but he is a contributor.

 

 

5) It's tough to write this because I like the guy SO much, but I'm getting just a bit concerned with Moorman.

 

6) Whitner made 2 nice plays in a row just before the half. It was also good to see him on a blitz package. Then again, that was a sweet pick by Wilson, ya know?

 

7) Kyle Williams, from what I could see, was being double teamed for most of the game but he still made plays. He caught Ricky Williams by surprise on that screen and really banged him out! He knew exactly where that play was going, ran to the perfect place and put a monster hit on a very strong back. That was freaking awesome.

 

8) Carrington is obviously a player who is listening to his coaches. He played well and that blocked pass was huge. How great is it to see the young defenders contribute? Carrington and Troup were brought along slowly, but it is starting to pay off. The Bills are a different team in 2011 if these guys turn out to be good players.

 

9) There is nothing at all not to like about David Nelson. And, it really is great to have a tall receiver with long arms.

 

10) Btw, I give Florence quite a bit of slack for the receptions he gave up to Brandon Marshall. The coverage wasn't so bad, and I have not really seen enough of Marshall to know just how good he is.

 

11) A big time shout out to Arthur Moats! He was literally all over the field, in addition to his 1.5 sacks.

 

12) Count me as sold on this coaching staff. The difference between this game and a Jauron win was the fact that this team went after their opponent and came away victorious, as opposed to laying back and waiting for a weak team to make a mistake.

 

13) Football depression? Mascochism? Self loathing perhaps? NOT this week.

 

14) GO BILLS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[silvermike]

I'm also not convinced that we don't need a right tackle more than a left tackle. Our pass protection is actually pretty good: greatly aided by Fitz's ability to get rid of the ball, of course, but he gets sacked much less than most QBs in the league. Even Tom Brady gets sacked more often. Fitz gets sacked about once every 20 dropbacks, which I think is basically acceptable.

 

Our problems really lie in the inability of the line to open up holes for the RBs, and that's where a real power type RT could help us a lot. I'm not saying burn off a top-10 pick on the guy, but I think I'd rather have a new beast at RT and keep Bell where he is than try to monkey with the line more by moving him around. Similarly, I like Wood at guard more than center, I think - the guy can pull with the best of them. Hang is acceptable, but if we have a shot at a center this offseason, I'd take it.

[JohnC]

Thanks John!

 

I never blasted the 2010 draft, other than the selection of Spiller.

Nix has made a living for many years finding talented players. I am not worried about this aspect of his job as GM. What I do worry about is interference from "upstairs."

And to his credit, he brought us Gailey, with whom I am quite satisfied with as a head coach. Despite the southern drawl, there is something almost stately about him. I feel like he is really teaching his players.

 

I believe that Gailey and Nix know that the team needs to get better on both lines. They absolutely MUST know this. Levy/Jauron were primarily about defensive backs, special teams, and playing not to lose.

 

I have a feeling that if Mr. Wilson lets these men run the team (especially the draft), the Bills will soon be playoff contenders.

 

One observatin I noticed in this game is that Henne, although he had decent passing stats, seems to be beaten down. He might be a player who needs a change of scenery to get on track. What I have learned from the Edwards era is that your qb can't be skittish no matter how much he gets pummelled. A quarterback who plays scared is a lost soul on the field.

 

I still consider Fitz to be an average starting qb at best. (A minority view on this board of Fitz zealots.) But what is very apparent watching him play is that he has a big heart. He is not afraid to make throws and he trusts his receivers. There was a lot attention given to the TD pass made to David Nelson. But what impressed me the most was a sideline pass made to Roosevelt when there was good coverage on him by three players. That play demonstrated to me more than any play in this game that he wasn't afraid to make a tight throw and that he trusted his receiver to go and make a play on the ball. In my view, the psychology of the qb was more impressive than the play itself. It was a play that neither Henne or Edwards have the fortitude to make.

 

I still recommend that you be patient with the Spiller selection. Bulking up the tackle position will in the not too distance future demonstrate Spiller's big play ability. Although his running stats were not overwhelming yesterday he is much more decisive with his runs than he was earlier on. A sign of good coaching and player receptivity.

Edited December 20, 2010 by JohnC

[Peace]

I still consider Fitz to be an average starting qb at best. (A minority view on this board of Fitz zealots.) But what is very apparent watching him play is that he has a big heart. He is not afraid to make throws and he trusts his receivers. There was a lot attention given to the TD pass made to David Nelson. But what impressed me the most was a sideline pass made to Roosevelt when there was good coverage on him by three players. That play demonstrated to me more than any play in this game that he wasn't afraid to make a tight throw and that he trusted his receiver to go and make a play on the ball. In my view, the psychology of the qb was more impressive than the play itself. It was a play that neither Henne or Edwards have the fortitude to make.

 

This continues to surprise me. I realize you temper it with the compliments that follow but what the Fitz Bills are compared to the talent they lack and have had been for years is incredible. He makes the line (which let's face it is pretty bad) and WRs (also not stellar) quite good. And he makes the Bills offense "go."

 

He should end the season with in the range of 3100-3300 yards passing. Give him 2 average games (for him) that he didn't start and that's a full season at about 3500-3700 yards. Only 1 Kelly season and Bledsoe's amazing 2002 Bills campaign rank higher in total yards. Even at 3200 or so, he'd be top 10 in Bills history. And he has no Thurman, Reed, Lofton, Hull, Wolford etc. He's working with Bell, Green, Roscoe Parrish...

 

Fitz has been nothing short of flat out amazing. No rookie or journeyman QB can do what he's doing.

 

BTW, here are the stats. With 2 games to go (and the 2 games he didn't play...and not really fair that in game 3 he barely got practice time), he's at #23 all time.

 

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/buf/single-season-passing.htm

Edited December 20, 2010 by Peace

[bluv]

I'm also not convinced that we don't need a right tackle more than a left tackle. Our pass protection is actually pretty good: greatly aided by Fitz's ability to get rid of the ball, of course, but he gets sacked much less than most QBs in the league. Even Tom Brady gets sacked more often. Fitz gets sacked about once every 20 dropbacks, which I think is basically acceptable.

 

Our problems really lie in the inability of the line to open up holes for the RBs, and that's where a real power type RT could help us a lot. I'm not saying burn off a top-10 pick on the guy, but I think I'd rather have a new beast at RT and keep Bell where he is than try to monkey with the line more by moving him around. Similarly, I like Wood at guard more than center, I think - the guy can pull with the best of them. Hang is acceptable, but if we have a shot at a center this offseason, I'd take it.

I agree. the sack Bell gave up was a coverage sack; even the announcers said that Fitz held on to the ball too long; it's not like the guy beat Bell off jump. The only game where I saw him get beat was the game against Minnesota and in that game Allen beat him off the snap 3 times due to crowd noise and beat him stright up once; when he got set he stoned him the other plays. Bell is the least of our problems for even though we can upgrade, we could do way worse and have much gretaer needs. All the talk about moving him to RT is crazy for he is suited to play LT; find an upgrade at RT and we'd be OK on the O-line. Find a consistence pass rusher, run-stuffing LBs and you will have a contender in 2011.

[Realist]

This continues to surprise me. I realize you temper it with the compliments that follow but what the Fitz Bills are compared to the talent they lack and have had been for years is incredible. He makes the line (which let's face it is pretty bad) and WRs (also not stellar) quite good. And he makes the Bills offense "go."

 

He should end the season with in the range of 3100-3300 yards passing. Give him 2 average games (for him) that he didn't start and that's a full season at about 3500-3700 yards. Only 1 Kelly season and Bledsoe's amazing 2002 Bills campaign rank higher in total yards. Even at 3200 or so, he'd be top 10 in Bills history. And he has no Thurman, Reed, Lofton, Hull, Wolford etc. He's working with Bell, Green, Roscoe Parrish...

 

Fitz has been nothing short of flat out amazing. No rookie or journeyman QB can do what he's doing.

 

BTW, here are the stats. With 2 games to go (and the 2 games he didn't play...and not really fair that in game 3 he barely got practice time), he's at #23 all time.

 

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/buf/single-season-passing.htm

I want to know why everyone thinks Fitz can't be our QB for the next 5 or so years. He's having a season that is among the best ever for a Bills QB, but hardly anyone wants him for our future, only to groom the new guy. I just don't know what more anyone could ask for out of a QB that some rookie is going to be better.

[NickelCity]

1. LB

2. LT

3. DE

4. TE

 

+1 This is the order of my draft wishlist.

[Peace]

+1 This is the order of my draft wishlist.

 

Between LT, LB, and DE, I don't have a draft "order," I just want the best of those 3 available. If a crappy LB and stud LB is there, take the stud. The Bills have plenty of holes to fill.

[AmishRifle]

I too finished watching the game with the same feeling you mention in regards to Moorman. I don't believe its a physical issue because he crushed a 60 yard punt at the end of the game. Maybe he's being directed to get hang time vice distance...

[dgrid]

I know you might not like to hear this, but I have a feeling that DBs will be drafted. McGee is getting old and banged up, McKelvin is spotty at best and consider Whitner gone...

agree. plus Florence will be a FA in 2011.

 

I want to know why everyone thinks Fitz can't be our QB for the next 5 or so years. He's having a season that is among the best ever for a Bills QB, but hardly anyone wants him for our future, only to groom the new guy. I just don't know what more anyone could ask for out of a QB that some rookie is going to be better.

think jury's still out on Fitz-for-5yrs, but I say plan on Fitz next yr, and draft to strengthen the rest of the team. If Fitz doesnt play well in 2011, at least we'll have a solid team for the rook in 2012.

Edited December 20, 2010 by dgrid

[JohnC]

This continues to surprise me. I realize you temper it with the compliments that follow but what the Fitz Bills are compared to the talent they lack and have had been for years is incredible. He makes the line (which let's face it is pretty bad) and WRs (also not stellar) quite good. And he makes the Bills offense "go."

 

He should end the season with in the range of 3100-3300 yards passing. Give him 2 average games (for him) that he didn't start and that's a full season at about 3500-3700 yards. Only 1 Kelly season and Bledsoe's amazing 2002 Bills campaign rank higher in total yards. Even at 3200 or so, he'd be top 10 in Bills history. And he has no Thurman, Reed, Lofton, Hull, Wolford etc. He's working with Bell, Green, Roscoe Parrish...

 

Fitz has been nothing short of flat out amazing. No rookie or journeyman QB can do what he's doing.

 

BTW, here are the stats. With 2 games to go (and the 2 games he didn't play...and not really fair that in game 3 he barely got practice time), he's at #23 all time.

 

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/buf/single-season-passing.htm

 

My aspirations are much higher than most on this board. The question I am asking myself is what does it take to be a SB contending team? If you look at teams such as New England, Indianapolis, Pittsburgh, New Orleans, San Diego, Philly (with Vick) and Green Bay and watch their games you will see that those qbs are capable of consistently making big plays. They elevate their teams to a very high level.

 

Fitz is a very smart qb with physical limitations. In my view he falls in a the category of a qb who can capably manage the game. I put him in the category of Cassell, Hasselbeck and Garrard.

 

What I have been advocating for awhile is if the Bills are in a position to get a qb with the talent of a Matt Ryan and Bradford then seize the opportunity. The advantages that the Bills have is that Fitz is good enough to allow a more physically talented qb to learn from him. The qb I favor, assuming Luck is not attainable, is Newton. I think he has extraordinary skills that if developed would put him in the upper tier level.

 

I appreciate what Fitz has done for this franchise. He has exhibited a competency at the qb position that hasn't been seen since the Kelly era. I'm looking at a big picture, a picture much bigger than most others are not willing or daring to see.

Edited December 20, 2010 by JohnC

[truth on hold]

Spiller showed good progress and turned in his most complete performance: an important run and catch, big punt return that lead to a score and effectlively picked up the blitz, helping Fitz to only 1 sack.

[bills44]

I'm looking at a big picture, a picture much bigger than most others are not willing or daring to see.

 

Little dramatic, don't you think?

[Peace]

My aspirations are much higher than most on this board. The question I am asking myself is what does it take to be a SB contending team? If you look at teams such as New England, Indianapolis, Pittsburgh, New Orleans, San Diego, Philly (with Vick) and Green Bay and watch their games you will see that those qbs are capable of consistently making big plays. They elevate their teams to a very high level.

 

Fitz is a very smart qb with physical limitations. In my view he falls in a the category of a qb who can capably manage the game. I put him in the category of Cassell, Hasselbeck and Garrard.

 

What I have been advocating for awhile is if the Bills are in a position to get a qb with the talent of a Matt Ryan and Bradford then seize the opportunity. The advantages that the Bills have is that Fitz is good enough to allow a more physically talented qb to learn from him. The qb I favor, assuming Luck is not attainable, is Newton. I think he has extraordinary skills that if developed would put him in the upper tier level.

 

I appreciate what Fitz has done for this franchise. He has exhibited a competency at the qb position that hasn't been seen since the Kelly era. I'm looking at a big picture, a picture much bigger than most others are not willing or daring to see.

 

Fitz's TDs are 9th all time currently. His completion % is right there around Kelly's career completion %. His QB rating is top 10 for guys who played more than 10 games in a season. His yards rushing for QB is only surpassed by Flutie in 1999.

 

No rookie will do any of those things for years.

 

Imagine how good Fitz would be with some tackles, a good TE, and a running game.

[C.Biscuit97]

Bill, I enjoy your thoughts after the game. My only criticism is that you have players that you just stubbornly don't like. You formed an opinion on them early and won't change it. For whatever reason, you have always been very critical of D. Bell. Again, he is a very raw football player and suffered a major injury last year & missed all of OTAs.

 

Yet, the guy has help up very well agaisnt a very difficult schedule of pass rusher. He just helped hold the NFL leading sacker to 2 tackles and very little pressure. A full offseason of conditioning should only help him. Add to that, Bell seems to play with fire and doesn't back down.

 

I'm very happy with Bell and look forward to our young oline continuing to grow together.

[Coach Tuesday]

Bill, I enjoy your thoughts after the game. My only criticism is that you have players that you just stubbornly don't like. You formed an opinion on them early and won't change it. For whatever reason, you have always been very critical of D. Bell. Again, he is a very raw football player and suffered a major injury last year & missed all of OTAs.

 

Yet, the guy has help up very well agaisnt a very difficult schedule of pass rusher. He just helped hold the NFL leading sacker to 2 tackles and very little pressure. A full offseason of conditioning should only help him. Add to that, Bell seems to play with fire and doesn't back down.

 

I'm very happy with Bell and look forward to our young oline continuing to grow together.

 

Please publish a list of the items that TSW members are permitted to complain about. You may consult with Promo the Robot if you like. That way, we'll know in advance which complaints/criticisms are allowed. Thanks.

[Dr. K]

 

3) I think that this game brought us closer to the realization that the OT position is hurting. I know, Bell was hurt last year, he is green, etc. But, the sack that he gave up to Misi (who admittedly looks like a monster), almost got Fitzy killed. And, there was a lack of running room all day.

 

 

 

There's much I agree with in your comments, as usual, but I think you are wrong about this play. I watched it twice just now, and that sack was on Fitzpatrick for holding the ball too long. Bell held off Misi on his initial rush (quite well in fact considering Misi took an inside path, across the inside of the formation to Bell's right) and nobody else helped out on the block. Bell used his arms to push Misi off on his initial move as they moved to Bell's right along the line of scrimage. It was only on his second move, when they were already on the RIGHT side of the pocket (away from Bell's side entirely) that Misi got by Bell to trip up Fitz.

 

Also, it did not look to me like Fitz took anywhere near the kind of hit he was taking on other sacks earlier this season. He just got caught and went down.

 

IMHO

[Bill from NYC]

I agree. the sack Bell gave up was a coverage sack; even the announcers said that Fitz held on to the ball too long; it's not like the guy beat Bell off jump. The only game where I saw him get beat was the game against Minnesota and in that game Allen beat him off the snap 3 times due to crowd noise and beat him stright up once; when he got set he stoned him the other plays. Bell is the least of our problems for even though we can upgrade, we could do way worse and have much gretaer needs. All the talk about moving him to RT is crazy for he is suited to play LT; find an upgrade at RT and we'd be OK on the O-line. Find a consistence pass rusher, run-stuffing LBs and you will have a contender in 2011.

 

I have never been an advocate of moving Bell to RT. He isn't a bruiser, which was my problem on that sack.

Bell was out muscled by a player who is listed at 251 pounds, a rookie at that. In my OP, I did admit that this particular player looks very good, but I have an issue with Bell being shoved aside by a LB, or pushed after a play by a defensive back (this happened last week). Say what you will about Jason Peters, but NOBODY was going to toss him around.

 

Bell is very agile. He has good feet, but I am afraid it is because he is light in the ass. I would love nothing more than for him to be a probowl, long term LT for our football team. My fear is that he isn't big or strong enough to do this, and imo this is something that a smart organization would not take a chance on.

 

Jmo.

Edited December 21, 2010 by Bill from NYC

[Rico]

Please publish a list of the items that TSW members are permitted to complain about. You may consult with Promo the Robot if you like. That way, we'll know in advance which complaints/criticisms are allowed. Thanks.

[Dr. K]

I have an issue with Bell being shoved aside by a LB, or pushed after a play by a defensive back (this happened last week).

 

Jmo.

 

I saw that play last week that you are talking about, and you mis-characterize it as much as you do this sack by Misi this week.

 

On that play, Bell was engaged with a lineman/linebacker up to the whistle, pushing forward. As the whistle blew, he let up, and at that point the defensive back pushed him from behind. Bell did not even see the guy, who came up behind him and hit him while he was engaged with a guy in front of him, and after the whistle.

 

You make it sound like he is being pushed around face on by defensive backs.

 

I have to say that I think you are still pining for Jason Peters, and that it is evident in your every comment on Bell, whom you will never give a fair shake. Yes he is not Jason Peters.

When Bell is in his eighth year at LT for the Bills, maybe not a pro-bowler but a good player, are you still going to be dissing him because Peters would have been better?