We will find out how important Lee Evans is

[mike oxhurtz]

Lee Evans or not, we still need some sort of deep threat. It could be Lee Evans, it could be someone else, I don't really care. Johnson and Nelson have solid hands, but aren't deep guys from what I've seen. Roscoe is too small, even though he is damned fast.

 

I'll agree with that. It's unknown at this point if Easley can be that deep threat we need, but he was putting up a strong case before he was prematurely put on IR for the year. A majority of fans were clamoring for the Bills to finally give Stevie Johnson a shot and finally in his 3rd year, he got it and is exceeding everyone's expectations. This is Johnson's first year getting legimate playing time, so he still has a ton of room to grow.

[Dorkington]

I'll agree with that. It's unknown at this point if Easley can be that deep threat we need, but he was putting up a strong case before he was prematurely put on IR for the year. A majority of fans were clamoring for the Bills to finally give Stevie Johnson a shot and finally in his 3rd year, he got it and is exceeding everyone's expectations. This is Johnson's first year getting legimate playing time, so he still has a ton of room to grow.

Yeah, I don't see why everyone is so upset with Lee. Yeah, he's probably over paid. And has questionable hands/effort sometimes... but he does what we want him to do, and that's loosen up the secondary a bit. Hopefully Easley works out for us, as I'm sure Lee isn't long for the team.

[Jerry Jabber]

Going into the game yesterday, the Phins were #4 against the pass (that's what one of their players said). I believe they are #6 right now after giving up more than they normally do. Either way, their run defense and their pass defense have been very good, between 4-6. Yesterday, they decided to change their strategy a little because of lee Evans not playing. This is one of the smarter defensive masterminds in all of football, Mike Nolan. Mike Nolan says to his team, without Evans they can't throw the ball downfield. So they let the Bills try to beat them that way, and completely took away our run.

 

Their players came right out and said it. To take away our run. It worked. We were terrible. It was statistically the worst game of Fred's career YPR with a decent amount of carries. Spiller averaged less than two yards. They were not only stopping us at the LOS they were in our backfield all day. That's because they had one or two extra players in there at the LOS because, as they admitted, they "left their CBs on an island" to stop our run. As I said, IF we can win by not being able to run, not being able to pass deep, and throw into tight coverage, then sure we don't need Evans.

 

We did it yesterday. I doubt we can consistently do it. I doubt we will trade Evans. I will bet anyone right now that Gailey and Fitz want Lee Evans starting next week if he could, and will next year. Wanna bet me $1000 that Lee Evans, barring injury, is in the starting lineup next year opening week? Why? Because Coach Gailey and Ryan Fitzpatrick think that gives us the best chance for success.

 

You can keep the excuses coming all day long, but there's no denying Evans had one of his worst statistical performances this year, but yet Fitz is having one of the best stats for a Bills QB's in over 8 years. I knew you were going to use the Trent Edwards excuse, so let's see what our run game does this week. If it's similiar to yesterday's game, then you might have a valid point, but if the Bills run game is more successful, then your point about Evans is absolutely wrong.

[Kelly the Dog]

You can keep the excuses coming all day long, but there's no denying Evans had one of his worst statistical performances this year, but yet Fitz is having one of the best stats for a Bills QB's in over 8 years. I knew you were going to use the Trent Edwards excuse, so let's see what our run game does this week. If it's similiar to yesterday's game, then you might have a valid point, but if the Bills run game is more successful, then your point about Evans is absolutely wrong.

Steve Johnson has repeatedly said in interviews, that teams put two guys on Lee Evans and he has benefited from that. If you want to ignore what the players say, what the coaches say, and what is actually happening on the field, and rely on stats, feel free.

 

Next week will be interesting. The Patriots are vulnerable on defense, despite having the best defensive coach in football, and almost inarguably its shrewdest tactician. They are in the middle of the pack against the run, and at the very bottom against the pass (stats, of course, that are distorted because they are usually winning and in the second half teams pass most every play against them).

 

So what is Belicheat going to do? Wanna bet he just ignores the fact his pass defense stinks and tries to stop the Bills from running, making us beat them downfield with the pass? The thing that should be, statistically, the opposite of what you should do since the Bills pass so much better than we run? Why would the smartest coach in the league do such a thing?

 

Because we don't have Lee Evans. Little speed or deep threats at WR. No need for a safety to watch for the long ball.

 

I expect Gailey to try to go deep anyway and see if our guys single covered can beat their CBs down the field. If we can, that will be awesome and open up the playbook. I wouldnt count on it, but Gailey is clever, too. It would be a lot easier with Evans taking up two men. We put up 30 on them the first time.

 

I noticed you didn't take the bet.

 

Answer this for me, would you believe that the Bills like and need and intend to keep and start Lee Evans as the starting WR if Chan Gailey came out and said it right now? I mean, he would know better than you or I, wouldn't he?

Edited December 20, 2010 by Kelly the Fair and Balanced Dog

[mike oxhurtz]

Kelly, you are an excuse machine. So the Phins stacked the box against the Bills to shut down the run, tell me, how many times have teams stacked 7 or 8 against the Bills to shut down the run over the last 5 years....almost every single game! Your boy Evans is overrated, overpaid and is on the downside of his career. It's time for the Bills to move on with Evans.

[Jerry Jabber]

Kelly, you are an excuse machine. So the Phins stacked the box against the Bills to shut down the run, tell me, how many times have teams stacked 7 or 8 against the Bills to shut down the run over the last 5 years....almost every single game! Your boy Evans is overrated, overpaid and is on the downside of his career. It's time for the Bills to move on with Evans.

 

You're right, this guy is a non-stop excuse machine.

 

I'm not willing to say all of that about Evans, but at this point, I'd say Evans is a #3 WR at best.

[Kelly the Dog]

Kelly, you are an excuse machine. So the Phins stacked the box against the Bills to shut down the run, tell me, how many times have teams stacked 7 or 8 against the Bills to shut down the run over the last 5 years....almost every single game! Your boy Evans is overrated, overpaid and is on the downside of his career. It's time for the Bills to move on with Evans.

I can only assume you're in seventh grade or don't watch football much. So I will attempt to explain (without much hope it will get through) what has happened to the Bills the last several years and why our offense was crappy. These are not necessarily in order of importance.

 

1] We had one legitimate WR and deep threat in Lee Evans.

2] We had crappy QBing.

3] We had crappy pass blocking.

4] We had crappy offensive coaching.

 

Teams, as you said, stacked 7 or 8 in the box, daring us to throw AND only watched Evans, daring us to throw to anyone besides him. They took away our run, usually rather successfully. We kept trying and trying to find a guy to put opposite Evans so teams COULDNT do this. We continued to have crappy QBing and coaching and we stunk.

 

Last year, we brought in TO. People fail to understand or acknowledge the fact that twice a game approximately, TO was WIDE OPEN deep. He was open all over the field almost the entire season. Teams still double covered Evans and TO roamed free. If we had decent passing, TO almost certainly would have led the league in touchdowns. I can't even count the number of times he was wide open deep and the ball was nowhere near him or the QB missed him or the line caved too early. It actually worked. Our quarterbacking and line play and coaching was still horribly bad, that our offense still sucked.

 

This year. we get smart coaching. After the first two games of terrible QBing and line play (sometimes because of the terrible QBing) we still sucked. Even gailey didnt call good games. What happened then? Fitz came in. Parrish started making plays. Stevie started making plays. Teams STILL did what they always did double covering Evans and we were successful through the air. Dynamic at times. Because Fitz started playing well and masking the deficiencies in the OL and making plays to single covered Parrish and Johnson while teams still watched Evans with their safety as well as CB.

Edited December 20, 2010 by Kelly the Fair and Balanced Dog

[Magox]

Steve Johnson has repeatedly said in interviews, that teams put two guys on Lee Evans and he has benefited from that. If you want to ignore what the players say, what the coaches say, and what is actually happening on the field, and rely on stats, feel free.

 

Next week will be interesting. The Patriots are vulnerable on defense, despite having the best defensive coach in football, and almost inarguably its shrewdest tactician. They are in the middle of the pack against the run, and at the very bottom against the pass (stats, of course, that are distorted because they are usually winning and in the second half teams pass most every play against them).

 

So what is Belicheat going to do? Wanna bet he just ignores the fact his pass defense stinks and tries to stop the Bills from running, making us beat them downfield with the pass? The thing that should be, statistically, the opposite of what you should do since the Bills pass so much better than we run? Why would the smartest coach in the league do such a thing?

 

Because we don't have Lee Evans. Little speed or deep threats at WR. No need for a safety to watch for the long ball.

 

I expect Gailey to try to go deep anyway and see if our guys single covered can beat their CBs down the field. If we can, that will be awesome and open up the playbook. I wouldnt count on it, but Gailey is clever, too. It would be a lot easier with Evans taking up two men. We put up 30 on them the first time.

 

I noticed you didn't take the bet.

 

Answer this for me, would you believe that the Bills like and need and intend to keep and start Lee Evans as the starting WR if Chan Gailey came out and said it right now? I mean, he would know better than you or I, wouldn't he?

Who care's what he said, players say stuff all the time when receiving accolades, they say the standard "I owe it to the Olinemen" or "I owe it to the QB for making the right reads" or "I owe it to Evans for drawing double coverage". People say stuff to appear more modest, I think any rational person who has the ability to think for himself understands this.

 

All I know is that without Lee Evans opposite of Stevie against one of the best D's in the NFL, Stevie did what Stevie does, which was catch passes and make T.D's.

 

Twice he was able to make catches in double and triple coverage. Once he juked Vontae Davis out of his socks to make a nice catch, break tackle and run. When do you EVER see Evans do this? I'll tell you, hardly EVER.

 

Never have I seen Evans make a juke that way.. Evans is an extremely effective one trick pony with great hands. His weaknesses are that he is an average route runner, and he has absolutely NO feel or awareness in finding the soft spot in coverages in zones to make the catch. If he did, then he would have more catches, plain and simple.

[Kelly the Dog]

 

Twice he was able to make catches in double and triple coverage. Once he juked Vontae Davis out of his socks to make a nice catch, break tackle and run. When do you EVER see Evans do this? I'll tell you, hardly EVER.

 

Never have I seen Evans make a juke that way.. Evans is an extremely effective one trick pony with great hands. His weaknesses are that he is an average route runner, and he has absolutely NO feel or awareness in finding the soft spot in coverages in zones to make the catch. If he did, then he would have more catches, plain and simple.

Game against the Ravens. Fitz throws a short pass to Evans because he is single covered and the safety watching him blitzed. Evans jukes the one guy covering him and walks into the endzone for a TD. He didnt have to break the tackle because he made one cut and left the guy whiffing. Next.

 

Here is all you really need to know. Chan Gailey, whom everyone right now seems to trust with the offense, thinks the team is better with Evans starting. He never took him out. He benched Steve Johnson earlier in the year, he never took Evans out. He still said even yesterday he wasn't AT ALL surprised that the young guys did well because he knew they were good. If Evans were healthy next week, he would be starting. There wouldnt be any question about it. Because Gailey, not me or any other poster or writer, thinks he gives us the best chance to succeed and score on offense, and in turn win.

[Magox]

Game against the Ravens. Fitz throws a short pass to Evans because he is single covered and the safety watching him blitzed. Evans jukes the one guy covering him and walks into the endzone for a TD. He didnt have to break the tackle because he made one cut and left the guy whiffing. Next.

If you think that Evans has anywhere near the ability to separate from defenders as much as Stevie does, than you are as delusional as these posters say you are.

 

And here is what I qualifed that statement with

 

Once he juked Vontae Davis out of his socks to make a nice catch, break tackle and run. When do you EVER see Evans do this? I'll tell you, hardly EVER.

 

I think you are going to need to recall your "next"

 

Game against the Ravens. Fitz throws a short pass to Evans because he is single covered and the safety watching him blitzed. Evans jukes the one guy covering him and walks into the endzone for a TD. He didnt have to break the tackle because he made one cut and left the guy whiffing. Next.

 

Here is all you really need to know. Chan Gailey, whom everyone right now seems to trust with the offense, thinks the team is better with Evans starting. He never took him out. He benched Steve Johnson earlier in the year, he never took Evans out. He still said even yesterday he wasn't AT ALL surprised that the young guys did well because he knew they were good. If Evans were healthy next week, he would be starting. There wouldnt be any question about it. Because Gailey, not me or any other poster or writer, thinks he gives us the best chance to succeed and score on offense, and in turn win.

 

I never suggested that we weren't or that we should cut him or anything of the sort. What I said was that he isn't nearly as valuable to this offense as the homers of this board suggest and that it would be logical to shop him around and see if we could get something of value for him, considering our depth at the position.

Edited December 20, 2010 by Magox

[Kelly the Dog]

If you think that Evans has anywhere near the ability to separate from defenders as much as Stevie does, than you are as delusional as these posters say you are.

 

And here is what I qualifed that statement with

 

 

 

I think you are going to need to recall your "next"

 

 

 

I said he didnt need to break a tackle because the juke did the trick.

 

Granted, Steve Johnson has a great juke, is terrific at taking one step outside and then cutting inside to get open quickly. Far better at that than Evans. They complement each other perfectly. Almost every team in the league would love to have a deep threat speed demon on one side and a solid possession receiver who consistently gets open on the other. That's the prime combination. Take away Evans and we have no deep threat.

[Magox]

I said he didnt need to break a tackle because the juke did the trick.

 

Granted, Steve Johnson has a great juke, is terrific at taking one step outside and then cutting inside to get open quickly. Far better at that than Evans. They complement each other perfectly. Almost every team in the league would love to have a deep threat speed demon on one side and a solid possession receiver who consistently gets open on the other. That's the prime combination. Take away Evans and we have no deep threat.

I agree that it is ideal to have that deep ball threat and not having Lee Evans does take that away... However, there is a possibility that Easley could be that man, he certainly has the speed and size and he did show promise in camp. I'm hoping that Easley fills that role.

[mike oxhurtz]

Kelly, you have a book full of excuses for Evans. Sorry, but Evans is not a #1 WR. True #1 WR's have the ability to make plays, even while double covered. Evans does not have the physical ability to outleap & outmuscle DB's like true #1 WR's can. I've seen several times this year Evans unable to beat single coverage on deep passes. So Evans is starting to decline. Just face it, your boy Evans is just another Peerless Price, just a one trick pony, once his speed goes, he'll be done.

 

So go through your book of excuses again...

[Kelly the Dog]

Kelly, you have a book full of excuses for Evans. Sorry, but Evans is not a #1 WR. True #1 WR's have the ability to make plays, even while double covered. Evans does not have the physical ability to outleap & outmuscle DB's like true #1 WR's can. I've seen several times this year Evans unable to beat single coverage on deep passes. So Evans is starting to decline. Just face it, your boy Evans is just another Peerless Price, just a one trick pony, once his speed goes, he'll be done.

 

So go through your book of excuses again...

The issue really isn't and hasn't been whether Evans is a legit #1 WR in the league. That's arguable. the issue is whether our team is better with or without him, whether he is worth the money, whether the young guys would make this offense and team win more games if they were in there and we could trade Evans for a player or draft pick.

 

I've described in detail about 20 reasons in 20 different posts in different threads for why this or that happened. It's my opinion on a message board. No one has refuted any of it, or described what they don't agree with, and why, and what they thought was different outside of one person, Why So Serious, and I agreed with most of what he said. Especially you, who has provided nothing whatsoever to the discussion except for, basically, "Evans sucks."

 

I offered to bet people, and will bet you, or anyone else that Lee Evans starts next year when he comes back because Coach Gailey will want him to. There would be only one reason for that, because they think Lee Evans is better for our team than any of the other guys and worth the money they pay him to do so. No one took me up on it. Wanna bet me $100? $1000? That we don't cut or trade or bench him?

 

Do you want to say we have anyone playing right now who is a consistent deep threat? Try to refute any actual analysis of anything I said and then maybe there will be a discussion. I can only assume that you can't and won't until shown otherwise.

Edited December 20, 2010 by Kelly the Fair and Balanced Dog

[mike oxhurtz]

Between myself & Jerry Jabber, we've stated numerous facts and stats about Evans. Evans is no longer an effective deep threat and his stats over the last 2 seasons prove it. You can make all the excuses you want, but the stats don't lie.

[PromoTheRobot]

Between myself & Jerry Jabber, we've stated numerous facts and stats about Evans. Evans is no longer an effective deep threat and his stats over the last 2 seasons prove it. You can make all the excuses you want, but the stats don't lie.

Stats lie big time, actually, especially when you take them at face value.

 

PTR

[Offside Number 76]

This thread had something to it when PTR started it, and it was an intelligent discussion for a little while. Now, it's a classic TSW clash of idiocy.

[mike oxhurtz]

Stats lie big time, actually, especially when you take them at face value.

 

PTR

 

Really, so Evans having 2 games with no receptions this year, and games like 1 rec for 6 yards, those stats lie huh?

[1B4IDie]

Really, so Evans having 2 games with no receptions this year, and games like 1 rec for 6 yards, those stats lie huh?

Well you see, he is doubled all game . . .and uh . . .the play calling is . . . uh . . plays that are called . . .and uh Fitzbiggons . . . uh . .He is the QB and . . uh . . did I mention he is doubled all game.

Without Lee Evans the Bills will be the worst team in the NFL based on the litany of compelling reasons I just gave you.

Why don't you understand?

Edited December 21, 2010 by Why So Serious?

[mikey98277]

You didn't notice Stevie has been consistantly double covered the last 4 games?

You didn't notice the Dolphins are the #6 defense against the run?

 

We can't run because Lee Evans isn't in the game? That is hilarious.

 

 

Yes I would say this logic is a little off, we can pass and win without lee, just cannot run? I am not the brightest person alive but that is retarded logic. You can win by passing without the so called #1, but he is the reason they cannot run. If you believe that then you are mentally challenged.