Coach Tuesday Posted December 17, 2010 Posted December 17, 2010 I guess on-field productivity doesn't matter to Bill Belichick. I think BB is smart enough to recognize a good player who is held hostage by a weak supporting cast. Welker and Moss weren't lighting up the league when BB went and got them.
Dawgg Posted December 17, 2010 Posted December 17, 2010 It seems to me that Whitner is pretty clearly a top-half-of-the-league starting safety. He's versatile, rarely out of position, covers decently enough, is fast enough, and makes a ton of tackles. Given the holes on this team, why on earth would the Bills let him go? I mean, it's not like he's going to break the bank, and the Bills' payroll is so small (relatively speaking) right now that it wouldn't matter. They're going to cut Maybin next year and he'll be off the books, their QB costs a pittance, and Evans will cost only 4 million next year. Who else on that team is getting paid? Not Kelsay, really--as I've pointed out numerous times, his contract is really a mid-teen four-year contract, not a $24 million one. I ask again: who else are they paying besides Spiller and McKelvin? This defense needs as many decent players as it can get; Whitner is one. That's the point, Dave, that Whitner is looking to break the bank. If Whitner was truly the team player he purports to be, he wouldn't have had a protracted holdout prior to his rookie season when the Bills did him a huge favor and chose him earlier than he was projected to go, he wouldn't continually encourage rookies to holdout for the last dollar (as he has with McKelvin, Spiller and Hardy) and he wouldn't have hired Tom Condon as his agent. I'm sure the Bills will offer him a raise from his rookie contract and a modest one at that... but Whitner is looking to get PAID. Can't blame him for shooting high, but you also can't blame the front office for balking, when that money is better allocated to players like Kyle Williams, Roscoe Parrish and Stevie Johnson. If he's willing to take $3M per year, sure, resign him. But if he wants top-dollar for a safety, even you have to admit that's a ludicrous request given his on-field play. This has nothing to do with his draft selection. P.S. Lawyer Milloy (the man he replaced and the player you hated on perennially) is having a great season in Seattle, at the ripe old age of 37 and has played better than his 25 year old counterpart.
billsfan89 Posted December 17, 2010 Posted December 17, 2010 I would like to see Poz come back but they would need to sign a quality back up MLB as Poz is always going to miss a few games. The attitude I think that Whitner is the team would like him back but at the right price. They aren't going to overpay for the guy (Although Chris Kelsay seems to be the exception to the rule) but would like to get him back at the appropriated price.
Dawgg Posted December 17, 2010 Posted December 17, 2010 I think BB is smart enough to recognize a good player who is held hostage by a weak supporting cast. Welker and Moss weren't lighting up the league when BB went and got them. and Whitner doesn't fall in that category. If he was making all the plays he could, you may have an argument. But when he drops INTs, takes poor angles and gets beat in coverage with regularity, there are other issues at play beyond his supporting cast (or lack thereof). He has a lot of heart and it's great to see that he actually cares out there, but his contract should be a reasonable one not an extravagant one. Given that he's looking for the latter, I can't blame the front office for balking. Perhaps they're doing the right thing in letting him shop his services around and see what he can get. If he gets a compelling offer, then they can see if it's worth outbidding him. Negotiating against themselves at this point and caving to his extravagant demands is pointless.
DrDawkinstein Posted December 17, 2010 Posted December 17, 2010 Dawgg, please post your source that shows how much Whitner is looking for, and how much the Bills have offered. Thanks in advance!
Dawgg Posted December 17, 2010 Posted December 17, 2010 Dawgg, please post your source that shows how much Whitner is looking for, and how much the Bills have offered. Thanks in advance! There it is Dr... stupidest inquiry of the month... joining the TBD Peanut Gallery with no common sense. Link? Source? Were you in the room? Didn't think so. 1) I know this for a fact: Tom Condon doesn't take on clients unless he feels he can get them an upper echelon contract. He's the most powerful agent in pro sports and he doesn't just take anyone on as his client. If it's a modest contract, it's usually not worth his time. I don't need to reveal a source to you, because quite frankly, I don't give a schizz what you think. 2) Whitner himself stated that they are very far apart. It stands to reason that given his agent and his high opinion of himself, he is seeking to be paid top dollar. Given Whitner's statement that they are far apart on dollars, it seems reasonable to assume that the Bills are offering him substantially less than that. It doesn't take much to figure out what's going on here. Whitner has no incentive to sign a modest deal the Bills have in place without testing his market value. The Bills have no incentive to overpay a player who has been somewhat ordinary throughout the course of his career. Hence the impasse.
ColdBlueNorth Posted December 17, 2010 Posted December 17, 2010 There it is Dr... stupidest inquiry of the month... joining the TBD Peanut Gallery with no common sense. Link? Source? Were you in the room? Didn't think so. 1) I know this for a fact: Tom Condon doesn't take on clients unless he feels he can get them an upper echelon contract. He's the most powerful agent in pro sports and he doesn't just take anyone on as his client. If it's a modest contract, it's usually not worth his time. I don't need to reveal a source to you, because quite frankly, I don't give a schizz what you think. 2) Whitner himself stated that they are very far apart. It stands to reason that given his agent and his high opinion of himself, he is seeking to be paid top dollar. Given Whitner's statement that they are far apart on dollars, it seems reasonable to assume that the Bills are offering him substantially less than that. It doesn't take much to figure out what's going on here. Whitner has no incentive to sign a modest deal the Bills have in place without testing his market value. The Bills have no incentive to overpay a player who has been somewhat ordinary throughout the course of his career. Hence the impasse. Ouch. What if we said "pretty please" give up your source? Interesting perspective and some history I am sure that most would be unaware of... certainly would change the complexion of the whole impasse thing.
McBeane Posted December 17, 2010 Posted December 17, 2010 There it is Dr... stupidest inquiry of the month... joining the TBD Peanut Gallery with no common sense. Link? Source? Were you in the room? Didn't think so. 1) I know this for a fact: Tom Condon doesn't take on clients unless he feels he can get them an upper echelon contract. He's the most powerful agent in pro sports and he doesn't just take anyone on as his client. If it's a modest contract, it's usually not worth his time. I don't need to reveal a source to you, because quite frankly, I don't give a schizz what you think. 2) Whitner himself stated that they are very far apart. It stands to reason that given his agent and his high opinion of himself, he is seeking to be paid top dollar. Given Whitner's statement that they are far apart on dollars, it seems reasonable to assume that the Bills are offering him substantially less than that. It doesn't take much to figure out what's going on here. Whitner has no incentive to sign a modest deal the Bills have in place without testing his market value. The Bills have no incentive to overpay a player who has been somewhat ordinary throughout the course of his career. Hence the impasse. You know what they say about assuming, genius.
valle7878 Posted December 17, 2010 Posted December 17, 2010 Let Whitner go he sucks anyways he isn't worth a lot of money we have players who can play just as good on the bench.
BillsVet Posted December 17, 2010 Posted December 17, 2010 Reading between the lines has become a lost art. Tom Condon want big money for his client? No way, I need a source! Would not surprise me if DW wants 6-7M per and Buffalo is countering with 3-4M per. He's going to find out his value the hard way.
The Dean Posted December 17, 2010 Posted December 17, 2010 Reading between the lines has become a lost art. Tom Condon want big money for his client? No way, I need a source! Would not surprise me if DW wants 6-7M per and Buffalo is countering with 3-4M per. He's going to find out his value the hard way. He, like most Bills FAs, will find he can make more elsewhere. Will he make his asking price? Dunno. But he will make more than the Bills first offer. Of course, it is the Bills first offer. With the looking labor issue, I wouldn't get too excited one way or the other, just yet.
JohnC Posted December 18, 2010 Posted December 18, 2010 Reading between the lines has become a lost art. Tom Condon want big money for his client? No way, I need a source! Would not surprise me if DW wants 6-7M per and Buffalo is countering with 3-4M per. He's going to find out his value the hard way. The Bills for sure have placed a value on him. He's played for them for a number of years and demonstrated what caliber of player he is. He certainly is not an impact player and he is not an indispensible or irreplaceable type player. Will he find a suitor who will over pay for him? Possibly. If he does then more power to him. During the Levy era what the franchise did horribly was smartly value players with commensurate contracts. The Langston Walker and Dockery contracts were outrageously oversized for their talent levels. The fallout for those miscalculations was that Peters's understandably felt underpaid compared to his less talented linemates. Whitner has received a lot of criticism for something he had nothing to do i.e. being drafted too high by a stupid organization. In my view he is a solid player who would be even better if his defensive line and LBer corps could put more pressure on the offense. It is obvious that Whitner has a higher opinion of his worth than the organization. If he can find a match with another team then I say goodbye and wish him the best. If he and the Bills can strike a deal I would be more than satisfied. Overall, I would like to keep him for the right price. So far under Nix the Bills have been managed in a competent manner. There haven't been any flash PR player decisions or panic moves. The Schobel, Lynch, Edwards, Kavika Mitchell, the draft and mid-range player acquisitions were done in an orderly and reasoned fashion. That certainly is a lot better than the sometimes very odd and mercurial actions of the prior regime. Being steadfast might be boring but it certainly is a much more professional way to conduct business.
Malazan Posted December 18, 2010 Posted December 18, 2010 (edited) You think BB actually cares about this if they can play? Wasn't Hernandez one of the guys at Florida last year who wasn't shy about his love of marijuana, Belichek didn't seem to care about that. I don't think tweeting is going to bother him all that much. It's really not a consideration to be honest. Do you think front offices sit in a war room while discussing off season strategy and say "let's take this guy off of our board because he tweets too much."? Say what you will about his play but his tweeting that everyone on the board is so up in arms about is not a factor in any contract negotiation. I'm sorry you did not enjoy the tongue in cheek aspect of the post. The underlying element is that while some assume that he is Belichek's type of player that there are many factors that go into any such decision. Whether he twitters or speaks words to a reporter, he has a history of immaturity getting upset because a fan said something mean to him and such. It has not been shown that New England appreciates that type of speaking out and, in fact, values self restraint when making public comments. The Jets might be a better fit for Whitner. If you read through the thread, you'll see that I'm in favor of bring him back at 4 million or under. I feel that his enthusiasm is valuable to a point. The indications are that he wants more than that. I would not be willing to give a player who plays somewhere between average and 'good' more that based off of a contract year especially given the struggles he has had and shared via twitter. Edited December 18, 2010 by jeremy2020
San-O Posted December 18, 2010 Posted December 18, 2010 So far under Nix the Bills have been managed in a competent manner. There haven't been any flash PR player decisions or panic moves. The Schobel, Lynch, Edwards, Kavika Mitchell, the draft and mid-range player acquisitions were done in an orderly and reasoned fashion. That certainly is a lot better than the sometimes very odd and mercurial actions of the prior regime. Being steadfast might be boring but it certainly is a much more professional way to conduct business. You had me right up unitl there. Kelsay? What about the Kelsay extension?
Dawgg Posted December 18, 2010 Posted December 18, 2010 Of course, it is the Bills first offer. With the looking labor issue, I wouldn't get too excited one way or the other, just yet. All Whitner is trying to do through his whining Twitter campaign is pressure the team to overpay in a panic. Thankfully (and shockingly) it doesn't appear to be working. Yet. Why not let him test his market value??? If it's a franchise caliber player, you don't dare let them test the open market. If it's Whitner? Who cares!!!
iinii Posted December 18, 2010 Posted December 18, 2010 You may be looking at this the wrong way. Wouldn't it be bad news to Whitner if he were staying? ding, ding, ding , we have a winner
Rico Posted December 18, 2010 Posted December 18, 2010 You need to forget about the Levy/Jauron era taint associated with Whitner's selection. The critical issue regarding his retention is what are his contract expectations. The loqacious Donte is a mid-range caliber safety. That is where he should be paid. If his contract demands go beyond that then he should be dispatched. If his contract demands settle down to the mid-range level then I would have no problem retaining him. What this very mediocre franchise doesn't need is another hole to fill. Your criticism of DW regularly being late to a play is not necessarily valid. The Bills are not noted for their ability to put meaningful pressure on the qb. That certainly has affected DW's coverage, and the other DBs as well. By upgrading the pressure the coverage will correspondingly improve. You make a very potent point about the Levy/Jauron era. It was an unmitigated disaster which set the franchise back in years. The next few years will be dedicated to cleansing those very egregious and perplexing mistakes. The most appropriate response for those who were Jauron/Levy afficionados would be to remain silent and burrow themselves in a deep hole. There is nothing they can say to justify the carnage that past regime left.
Sisyphean Bills Posted December 18, 2010 Posted December 18, 2010 So far under Nix the Bills have been managed in a competent manner. There haven't been any flash PR player decisions or panic moves. The Schobel, Lynch, Edwards, Kavika Mitchell, the draft and mid-range player acquisitions were done in an orderly and reasoned fashion. That certainly is a lot better than the sometimes very odd and mercurial actions of the prior regime. Being steadfast might be boring but it certainly is a much more professional way to conduct business. That's debatable and too early to evaluate. Since the named players were roster purges, the protracted reassessments involved actually defer decisions being made. That's not competence so much as procrastination and ultimately setting the horizon out further. I'm curious why you say that the Jauron/Levy regime was unprofessional. Do you think bringing in T.O. was unprofessional? Or maybe it was firing Schonert? I think if anyone was unprofessional in the Schonert situation it was probably Schonert, who basically didn't want to do what his boss wanted done.
Dawgg Posted December 18, 2010 Posted December 18, 2010 as for those who called it from Day 1, rock on!
The Dean Posted December 18, 2010 Posted December 18, 2010 as for those who called it from Day 1, rock on! Sports Illustrated (and Real Scouts) would disagree with your evaluation of Whitner. In 2009, they ranked Donte at #9 for ALL Safeties (Strong and Free). I imagine after this year's performance, he might rank even higher: http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/story/2009-05-27/safety-rankings-reed-polamalu-are-pure-playmakers
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