Lombardi

[Wooderson]

I just watched this Vince Lombardi documentary on HBO and it was awesome. I recommend it to all you football fans. The life of one of the greatest coaches of all time.

 

It originally aired on December 11th but it's on HBO On Demand and will be airing regularly over the next few weeks. Check it out if you get the chance.

 

http://www.hbo.com/sports/lombardi/index.html#

[Dirtbag]

I just watched this Vince Lombardi documentary on HBO and it was awesome. I recommend it to all you football fans. The life of one of the greatest coaches of all time.

 

It originally aired on December 11th but it's on HBO On Demand and will be airing regularly over the next few weeks. Check it out if you get the chance.

 

http://www.hbo.com/sports/lombardi/index.html#

 

you also might want to check out the lombardi biography "when pride still mattered." the author, david maraniss, appears in the hbo special.

 

the book's opening is a little slow as you work through his childhood and family life, but it quickly builds up steam when he starts coaching. it also reveals lombardi as being much more thoughtful and intelligent than he's typically portrayed. too often he's dismissed as a hardass who just screamed at everyone. in truth, he was a great motivator because he understood the psyche of the team and catered his coaching to the mentality of the individual players.

 

the most telling part of the doc is the reference to (packer's defensive tackle) henry jordan's famous quote about lombardi: "he treats us all the same -- like dogs." as the commentary says, it's completely untrue. lombardi treated jordan like a dog because that's what it took to get him to play. other players he treated with kid gloves. hence the nearly universal love for him exhibited by his players.

 

it's unfortunate that the popular, simplistic image of lombardi as a loudmouth persists today. more unfortunate is that many fans clamor towards these types of one-note "fiery" coaches as somehow being "lombardi-esque." it's the reason why we have so many clueless meatheads with whistles roaming the sidelines.

 

link to the book: http://www.amazon.com/When-Pride-Still-Mattered-Lombardi/dp/0684844184

Edited December 15, 2010 by Dirtbag

[BUFFALOTONE]

I just watched this Vince Lombardi documentary on HBO and it was awesome. I recommend it to all you football fans. The life of one of the greatest coaches of all time.

 

It originally aired on December 11th but it's on HBO On Demand and will be airing regularly over the next few weeks. Check it out if you get the chance.

 

http://www.hbo.com/sports/lombardi/index.html#

Thanks for the reminder Woody.

[BillsVet]

you also might want to check out the lombardi biography "when pride still mattered." the author, david maraniss, appears in the hbo special.

 

link to the book: http://www.amazon.com/When-Pride-Still-Mattered-Lombardi/dp/0684844184

 

That is an outstanding book and a must read for hardcore football fans. One of the things I remember in the book is when Lombardi was coaching HS in NJ, he kept pushing his teams, but it took him time to realize his talent was not of the caliber it took to win like he wanted to. Coaching is one of those things you need to be an amateur psychologist to know when to do what and Lombardi mastered it. Kinda think that's what Gailey was alluding to after the Minnesota game.

[Wooderson]

you also might want to check out the lombardi biography "when pride still mattered." the author, david maraniss, appears in the hbo special.

 

the book's opening is a little slow as you work through his childhood and family life, but it quickly builds up steam when he starts coaching. it also reveals lombardi as being much more thoughtful and intelligent than he's typically portrayed. too often he's dismissed as a hardass who just screamed at everyone. in truth, he was a great motivator because he understood the psyche of the team and catered his coaching to the mentality of the individual players.

 

the most telling part of the doc is the reference to (packer's defensive tackle) henry jordan's famous quote about lombardi: "he treats us all the same -- like dogs." as the commentary says, it's completely untrue. lombardi treated jordan like a dog because that's what it took to get him to play. other players he treated with kid gloves. hence the nearly universal love for him exhibited by his players.

 

it's unfortunate that the popular, simplistic image of lombardi as a loudmouth persists today. more unfortunate is that many fans clamor towards these types of one-note "fiery" coaches as somehow being "lombardi-esque." it's the reason why we have so many clueless meatheads with whistles roaming the sidelines.

 

link to the book: http://www.amazon.com/When-Pride-Still-Mattered-Lombardi/dp/0684844184

 

Awesome, good stuff. The documentary discusses many of the things you bring up here.

 

I'm a volunteer football coach looking to work up the ranks in the future, so this was a huge motivation for me. It was great.

[Dirtbag]

Awesome, good stuff. The documentary discusses many of the things you bring up here.

 

I'm a volunteer football coach looking to work up the ranks in the future, so this was a huge motivation for me. It was great.

 

one more interesting fact (at least to me): when lombardi was teaching high school basketball at st. cecilia's, he had a player named mickey corcoran. corcoran would later become a legendary high school basketball coach in the nyc area, often crediting lombardi as his mentor. one of corcoran's high school players was bill parcells. as a young coach (and indeed throughout his career), parcells adopted the coaching philosophy of corcoran, who he viewed as his mentor.

 

for this reason it's often suggested that parcells comes from the lombardi coaching tree.

 

becoming a great coach sometimes requires one to stand on the shoulders of giants.

Edited December 16, 2010 by Dirtbag

[The Dean]

Of course there is a well reviews play on Broadway about Vince:

 

http://www.lombardibroadway.com/

 

 

They say that much of what many believe about Lombardi simply isn't true. He wasn't a tyrant and actually cared very much for his players. I have heard he regrets saying "Winning isn't everything, it's the only thing", or at least regrets how many have interpreted it.

[Mr. WEO]

y

 

it's unfortunate that the popular, simplistic image of lombardi as a loudmouth persists today. more unfortunate is that many fans clamor towards these types of one-note "fiery" coaches as somehow being "lombardi-esque." it's the reason why we have so many clueless meatheads with whistles roaming the sidelines.

 

link to the book: http://www.amazon.com/When-Pride-Still-Mattered-Lombardi/dp/0684844184

I don't see many of those types on the sidelines anymore in the NFL. Ryan maybe--though he doesn't seem very animated during games. Payton a bit. Singletary sometimes. Those guys (Cowher, Parcells, Gruden) are long gone.

 

College is FULL of these types. Pelini at Nebraska is the worst of the worst. Just a clown. That obese guy at Kansas (Mangino?). Gonzalez at Michigan. Stoops. Meyer.

[bbb]

one more interesting fact (at least to me): when lombardi was teaching high school basketball at st. cecilia's, he had a player named mickey corcoran. corcoran would later become a legendary high school basketball coach in the nyc area, often crediting lombardi as his mentor. one of corcoran's high school players was bill parcells. as a young coach (and indeed throughout his career), parcells adopted the coaching philosophy of corcoran, who he viewed as his mentor.

 

for this reason it's often suggested that parcells comes from the lombardi coaching tree.

 

becoming a great coach sometimes requires one to stand on the shoulders of giants.

 

 

That is very cool info!...........A guy I knew in high school said his father played for Vince Lombardi in high school, and I said Wow, really - what did he have to say about him???. He said "Says he's the best coach he ever had." I'm like "Really - no **** - who was his Pop Warner coach - Pop Warner?!?"

 

I'm about half way through this and it's excellent. One thing I was hoping they'd mention is something I knew when I was a kid from my father who was a Canisius grad and this probably happened when he was there. Lombardi was about to become Canisius' coach at some point and then took another job. I'm not sure when it was, though - when he went to Fordham instead or Army, or when he was being looked at by Wake, or when he went to the Giants.

 

If anybody knows about this, I'd be really interested in the details. (I knew them about 38 years ago!)

[plenzmd1]

So how cool was the scene of them coming off the charter, and all the guys with Civil Defense helmets were there to keep an aisle open for them..There in times of Nuclear War or The Packers coming home

[Dirtbag]

That is very cool info!...........A guy I knew in high school said his father played for Vince Lombardi in high school, and I said Wow, really - what did he have to say about him???. He said "Says he's the best coach he ever had." I'm like "Really - no **** - who was his Pop Warner coach - Pop Warner?!?"

 

I'm about half way through this and it's excellent. One thing I was hoping they'd mention is something I knew when I was a kid from my father who was a Canisius grad and this probably happened when he was there. Lombardi was about to become Canisius' coach at some point and then took another job. I'm not sure when it was, though - when he went to Fordham instead or Army, or when he was being looked at by Wake, or when he went to the Giants.

 

If anybody knows about this, I'd be really interested in the details. (I knew them about 38 years ago!)

 

hilarious. even better would have been for the dude to say, "eh, dad thought lombardi was a so-so coach."

 

i've never heard of the lombardi/canisius connection before but was able to dig up some info from larry felser's "the birth of the nfl." apparently, felser ran into lombardi in a restaurant early in his green bay years. at that time, lombardi admitted to felser that canisius was "the disappointment of my career." He had interviewed for the canisius job in '47 (when he was still coaching high school) but didn't get it. as a result, he ended up coaching at fordham.

 

according to felser, years later lombardi would later deny making this statement, saying he had never been turned down for any job in his career. felser suggests this denial was simply meant to preserve the aura of invincibility he had cultivated during green bay's golden years.

 

it's certainly interesting stuff and well worth the read: http://books.google.com/books?id=HiL53_048JgC&pg=PA126&lpg=PA126&dq=lombardi+canisius&source=bl&ots=bjujsK7t2i&sig=q73mxrL_7cRPK2DWTL-JlHFbXg8&hl=en&ei=Mc0KTeH4NY3CsAOw4eGOCw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CBMQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=lombardi%20canisius&f=false

Edited December 17, 2010 by Dirtbag

[bbb]

hilarious. even better would have been for the dude to say, "eh, dad thought lombardi was a so-so coach."

 

i've never heard of the lombardi/canisius connection before but was able to dig up some info from larry felser's "the birth of the nfl." apparently, felser ran into lombardi in a restaurant early in his green bay years. at that time, lombardi admitted to felser that canisius was "the disappointment of my career." He had interviewed for the canisius job in '47 (when he was still coaching high school) but didn't get it. as a result, he ended up coaching at fordham.

 

according to felser, years later lombardi would later deny making this statement, saying he had never been turned down for any job in his career. felser suggests this denial was simply meant to preserve the aura of invincibility he had cultivated during green bay's golden years.

 

it's certainly interesting stuff and well worth the read: http://books.google.com/books?id=HiL53_048JgC&pg=PA126&lpg=PA126&dq=lombardi+canisius&source=bl&ots=bjujsK7t2i&sig=q73mxrL_7cRPK2DWTL-JlHFbXg8&hl=en&ei=Mc0KTeH4NY3CsAOw4eGOCw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CBMQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=lombardi%20canisius&f=false

 

Wow - holy crap! What a find!! My father was class of '50, so indeed he was there at that time. I figured he knew the story correctly - he was a sportswriter for the student paper (actually, I think Felser was there at the time, too. I know Rick Azar sat next to my dad in a lot of classes).

 

That is really interesting reading, and no doubt Lombardi is full of crap, like Felser points out. Even in the HBO special, it talks about Wake, Army, the Giants, etc. turning him down.

 

Thanks!

[BillsPride12]

I watched this the other night and it was excellent! They don't make football coaches like that anymore sadly, even the NFL is so much different. I learned about sports from my grandfather growing up(and he was another old school, tough SOB...he was a great local amateur boxer and could've boxed professionally if he didn't join the military) and while watching this it made me remember why I fell in love with this sport to begin with. Its hard to keep it in perspective nowadays with the way the game and player's attitudes have changed so much. This is a must watch documentary for any diehard football purists, it will definitely get you fired up and make you wanna run outside and tackle somebody lol.

[bbb]

Probably the most amazing thing on it is that the Packers were 1-10-1 the year before he got there. They had 13 future Pro Bowl to Hall of Famers, like Starr, Nitchke, Hornung, etc. and they had that bad of a record........In one year he turns them into a winning team, 2nd year they make the NFL championship, 3rd year they win it all, and then proceed to win 4 of the next 6.

 

I have no idea who the coach was before him, but it really shows how much of a difference a coach makes.

[BreezeMafia]

I just watched this Vince Lombardi documentary on HBO and it was awesome. I recommend it to all you football fans. The life of one of the greatest coaches of all time.

 

It originally aired on December 11th but it's on HBO On Demand and will be airing regularly over the next few weeks. Check it out if you get the chance.

 

http://www.hbo.com/sports/lombardi/index.html#

 

Here Here......great show. Very well architected and presented

[BillsVet]

Probably the most amazing thing on it is that the Packers were 1-10-1 the year before he got there. They had 13 future Pro Bowl to Hall of Famers, like Starr, Nitchke, Hornung, etc. and they had that bad of a record........In one year he turns them into a winning team, 2nd year they make the NFL championship, 3rd year they win it all, and then proceed to win 4 of the next 6.

 

I have no idea who the coach was before him, but it really shows how much of a difference a coach makes.

 

I always found it amazing that Lombardi said after losing the 1960 NFL Championship to Philadelphia that his team would never lose another playoff game...and they never did. He went 9-0 in the post-season thereafter.

 

One thing most fans do not know is that Lombardi had a guy working in the front office, akin to a modern day player personnel director named Jack Vainisi who died in 1960. As great as Lombardi was coaching, Vainisi acquired many of those players Lombardi made into stars. Without that, I'm not sure the greatest HC in NFL history gets there. JMO.

[Dirtbag]

I always found it amazing that Lombardi said after losing the 1960 NFL Championship to Philadelphia that his team would never lose another playoff game...and they never did. He went 9-0 in the post-season thereafter.

 

One thing most fans do not know is that Lombardi had a guy working in the front office, akin to a modern day player personnel director named Jack Vainisi who died in 1960. As great as Lombardi was coaching, Vainisi acquired many of those players Lombardi made into stars. Without that, I'm not sure the greatest HC in NFL history gets there. JMO.

 

it's stunning to me that so few fans know of vainisi, particularly given how draft-obsessed the culture has become. the dude practically invented scouting and serious player evaluation. i think that he's mostly forgotten because those pre-lombardi green bay teams (that vainisi built) were so terrible. but also he died so young (at 33, i believe), that he wasn't around for the championship years. plus, obviously, the shadow of lombardi looms large.

Edited December 18, 2010 by Dirtbag

[San Jose Bills Fan]

Vainisi was instrumental in bringing Lombardi, and ten future Hall of Famers to Green Bay.

 

Paul Hornung, the Golden Boy taken at Vainisi's insistence, approached Vainisi's widow Jackie and asked if there was anything he could do, wrote Maraniss in his book.

"Yes," replied Jackie, "Become the kind of football player Jack knew you could be."

[BillsPride12]

I also get annoyed when people think of Lombardi as a raving lunatic who yelled at his players and put him in the same category as a Rex Ryan, etc. and don't think of him as a players coach. Nowadays people automatically think of a Dick Jauron when they think of a players coach. The players loved Vince Lombardi(and alot of them said he was a father figure to them). Vince actually cared about his players too, it was just that he demanded everything they had from them which is again stuff you don't see anymore. Lombardi was passionate and demanding but he did genuinely care about his players.

[bbb]

I finally got to finish this........I'm wondering about the Ice Bowl. The Packers called their last time out with 16 seconds left and them on the one yard line, down three. Was it crazy to not try a pass play and then kick the field goal to tie it and send it to OT, instead of the all or nothing QB sneak?