Am I wrong hating athletes for these moves?

[RuntheDamnBall]

It is less money. Baseball money is guaranteed, so he would have seen all of the cash from the Yankees contract and he knows that there's no way a team is giving him $20m a year when/if he signs another deal 5 years from now (when he's 38 years old.) The guy left $30m on the table to play where he wanted.

There are vesting options that close the money gap in the contract offers. He left more guaranteed money on the table, but if he performs even adequately he'll hit the innings mark to trigger the options.

[Sabre Bill]

Cliff Lee straight up said, I went to where my heart was. That's not insight, that's what he said. He said that's where he really wanted to be all along. Feel free to reference any of his statements.

 

And by stringing teams along, I mean by having these owners and GM's fly out to his house on multiple locations, and also re-up their offers. Again, that happened and can be referenced. Would you go to a job interview that you have no desire to take? Once offered, would you tell them you are looking for more to get them to bring a new offer?

 

That is what I base this on.

 

This doesn't mean it was an easy, early decision. Maybe he had to make the hard choice between $ and family -- enough $$$$ and the question gets complicated.

 

As a negotiating ploy to get the best deal in the end - ABSOLUTELY! Don't you think they're interviewing other candidates looking for their own best deal?

 

Again, that's how the game is played. Do you ever shop around for the best deal on a new car and compare offers -- letting dealer B know that dealer A will throw in something to see if that guy will juice his offer?

[RuntheDamnBall]

I, for one, think it'd be a better move for the Yanks to trade for Felix hernandez. Give up the whole farm system and whatever starter they want in Seattle. The Japanese ownership group may be crazy enough to take the offer

I know you're half-joking but that'd never happen as long as King Felix's cheap and controllable.

!@#$ Cliff Lee. I hope he goes on IR and never plays at a high level of ball again. He's a classless Dick!

There's no IR in MLB, Mr. Baseball Super-Fan.

 

It all makes me care a little less about sports. The cold reality is: Only the top 5-7 markets have a chance to win championships in their respective sports on a regular basis...and maybe even at all any more.

 

When you see the Phillies have Lee, Halliday, Oswalt and Hamels, how do you think you think your Brewers stack up? It's becomming an uncompetitive joke. Look at the Red Sox and Yamkees and compare to the Royals. Joke.

The Brew Crew have run their franchise pretty well over the past few years, though I think they'll regret the Lawrie-for-Marcum trade. I say that as a big fan of Marcum, but I think they overpaid by trading their top-hitting prospect. Marcum does look like a #2 in the NL, though, so it's not a wash.

 

In any case, all you have to do is be competitive in your division to have a shot. Come playoffs, all bets are off. The Giants proved that.

 

It's a LOT harder being a fan of an AL East team not from Boston or NY, though Tampa has made things interesting.

[Sabre Bill]

You can't fault a guy for evaluating his options. I can relate to the idea that if you're a multi-millionaire what's the difference, but if I were in those shoes I might feel differently. Especially given the prospect of pricey business ventures one may want to pursue, it makes sense. Lebron, however, is just an ass who, whether he already knew or not, didn't need to throw a "look at me" infomercial to give Cleveland the proverbial middle finger on national TV.

 

 

"King" James got knocked off his throne with this spectacle. He went from being the most hyped and celebrated star in the NBA to its most villified. If this was an attempt at branding it was the biggest flop since the Taco Bell dog.

 

 

The end game hasn't been reached yet -- we'll see.

 

It's all "sports entertainment". LBJ wins a ring or two down south and it's all forgotten. The marketers have already begun the spin that he left bad for good, and losing for winning. This is just more of the self centered junk we teach our kids in lieu of sportsmanship, loyalty, etc. The Owners have been doing this for years, Corporations for decades, Nations for centuries. Now that (a few rare) players are in positions to do this, we jump on their case?

[Virgil]

The Philly offer being there upfront is the sticking point for me I think.

 

If they didn't really come in to play until the end, then I get it. But i've heard that Philly was the "other" team for a few weeks. At the end of the day, if he knew Philly was making him an offer and knew that's where he really wanted to be, then I'm not a fan of what he did to the Yankees, and moreso the Rangers.

 

LeBron and Dwayne are much worse since I'm almost positive they knew what they were doing.

 

And for those who say I shouldn't care about them. Am I losing sleep and making voodoo dolls? No. But in the sports world where I do care, then yeah, I care. The same way anyone who posts on these boards care enough to express their opinion. So i'm not quite getting the "better than" mentality some are giving off.

[mike6683]

yankee fans just cant believe someone said no them. The most spoiled fans in sports are a buch of cry babies this week.

[NoSaint]

The Philly offer being there upfront is the sticking point for me I think.

 

If they didn't really come in to play until the end, then I get it. But i've heard that Philly was the "other" team for a few weeks. At the end of the day, if he knew Philly was making him an offer and knew that's where he really wanted to be, then I'm not a fan of what he did to the Yankees, and moreso the Rangers.

 

LeBron and Dwayne are much worse since I'm almost positive they knew what they were doing.

 

And for those who say I shouldn't care about them. Am I losing sleep and making voodoo dolls? No. But in the sports world where I do care, then yeah, I care. The same way anyone who posts on these boards care enough to express their opinion. So i'm not quite getting the "better than" mentality some are giving off.

 

I definitely didnt take you as about to burn down the stadium or anything so no worries.

 

I would compare it (even if apples to oranges) to being pretty sure you want to take a job but 2-3 headhunters are trying to recruit you away. I know you would atleast listen to the offers. ie I like this company, i like the guys, the citys nice, family likes it but..... how much money are these guys really offering. especially since his last stint in philly ended with them sending him away in what i am sure was a hard move for him. suddenly he is in seattle with his family in philly, or did he uproot his family? its definitely not black and white.

 

with NY so close to philly (could live there still, but commute easily for 20-30 million extra) or feeling a tie to texas after the run they made. possibly even having set down some roots in the area. even the fact that he may not 100% trust the phillies brass despite his affection for the city and the fellow players.

 

i could see dragging my feet a little on that decision trying to make sure i do the right thing for myself and my family -especially given his family situation.

 

 

it almost sounds like if philly upped there offer at the end you would be less upset, but the fact that he didnt act immediately on the original is bothering you. he listened to other offers instead of just jumping on one that he knew he liked. maybe the decision was harder then he let on, and he just wants to give the fans and team assurances publicly that he always wanted to be there.

 

i dunno.... just musing on the subject.

Edited December 15, 2010 by NoSaint

[marauderswr80]

I'm a braves fan so waking up to this news sucks.......

 

however, I agree with Lee goin to the phils....parts of philadelphia I could see myself retiring in. He made the right choice.

 

Lebron on the other hand that concert they had made me sick.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

No, this isn't football, but I'm see a trend here that I think we will see in the NFL sooner or later.

 

First off, let me say that I think that sports players are no different than any other players. Once Free Agents, they have the right to sign wherever they want and for as much as they want. If we draft a guy, and he plays well for us, but has always been a Panthers fan growing up, I wouldn't hate on him for leaving for them.

 

Here is what just kills me though, and I now just hate LeBron and Cliff Lee for doing so. Both of these guys seemed to know exactly where they were intending to play. Same goes for Dwayne Wade. Yet, the minute they have the opportunity to sign somewhere, they don't. They let other teams think they have a chance to sign them, have visits with different GM's and owners, field offers, and then obviously go to their original team of choice.

 

Wade spent days in Chicago making the team and fans think they were possibly going to sign him.

 

LeBron fielded visits from many different teams at his house, and then had that circus announcement on TV, like he just make up his mind that morning.

 

And now Cliff Lee, who strung along the Rangers, having them make an offer larger than any other in their franchise. Add more years than they wanted. Took two revised offers from the Yankees. And then, takes less money than both offers to sign with the Philly's cause that is where his heart was at. The same team that traded him for prospects the previous year. The same team that showed no public interest until he got template offers from the Rangers and Yankees. And then, he has the nerve to say that the only reason he didn't sign with the Rangers was because they didn't offer him a 7th year. He only signed a 5 year deal with the Philly's?!?.

 

I think these guys do these things because they are trying to make the fans think it was a tough choice for them and it wasn't about the money in the end. To me, I think these guys are total a-holes for stringing the fans and teams along when they knew from day one what they want. That's like dating the friend to get to your real girl. Shopping at Best Buy for the product knowledge, and buying at Wal-Mart. Trying all 31 flavors and not buying a cone.

 

I don't know. Tell me if i'm wrong. But these guys are right on my list after Vick.

 

You are wrong. Part of negotiating is leveraging competing offers against each other. That is good business in a capitalist society. When interviewing for a job opportunity the smart candidate has multiple offers on the table and takes the best one (considering all factors- $, bene’s Job, location, team, etc.), the competing offers provide a way to know your value and maximize compensation. Every prospective employer needs to believe with the right offer (salary, position, staff entitlements, ownership stake, bonus structure, options, etc.) you would go there, because it is ultimately true.

 

 

If fans choose to fawn over every step in that process it is to their own detriment.

 

 

[Chimp]

He takes less money and years to play where he wants and gets hammered. If he went to the yanks he'd be a money hungry mercenary. He went where he wanted get a life.

 

LBJ otoh had the worst public display of douchebaggery ever and deserves to be ridiculed. Wade at least had ties to Chicago and imo was really considering going there.

Completely agree. Derek in VA, I think you are being a boob. Oh the poor fans. You might understand if you were good enough at what you do to have multiple employers after you.

 

I definitely didnt take you as about to burn down the stadium or anything so no worries.

 

I would compare it (even if apples to oranges) to being pretty sure you want to take a job but 2-3 headhunters are trying to recruit you away. I know you would atleast listen to the offers. ie I like this company, i like the guys, the citys nice, family likes it but..... how much money are these guys really offering. especially since his last stint in philly ended with them sending him away in what i am sure was a hard move for him. suddenly he is in seattle with his family in philly, or did he uproot his family? its definitely not black and white.

 

with NY so close to philly (could live there still, but commute easily for 20-30 million extra) or feeling a tie to texas after the run they made. possibly even having set down some roots in the area. even the fact that he may not 100% trust the phillies brass despite his affection for the city and the fellow players.

 

i could see dragging my feet a little on that decision trying to make sure i do the right thing for myself and my family -especially given his family situation.

 

 

it almost sounds like if philly upped there offer at the end you would be less upset, but the fact that he didnt act immediately on the original is bothering you. he listened to other offers instead of just jumping on one that he knew he liked. maybe the decision was harder then he let on, and he just wants to give the fans and team assurances publicly that he always wanted to be there.

 

i dunno.... just musing on the subject.

 

Nice musing. I don't think he signed with Texas because they couldn't afford to put a series winning team around him given the salary he commands. Likewise, leaving 15 million on the table instead of going to New York is a nil point. That extra 15 mil would get sucked up in New York State taxes as well as municipal taxes in the city. Would it have been better for him to come out and say I like Philly and that is where I want to be? How about Philly has a great children's hospital and that is where I want my child?

[X. Benedict]

So a guy (in Lee's case) is traded 4 times (I think Montreal-Cleveland Cleveland-Philly Philly-Seatle Seattle-Texas) and becomes free agent and choses to move back to a place his family was happy before, and he's a villian?

 

I don't get the logic.

Edited December 15, 2010 by X. Benedict

[MDH]

There are vesting options that close the money gap in the contract offers. He left more guaranteed money on the table, but if he performs even adequately he'll hit the innings mark to trigger the options.

 

Lee has to pitch 200+ innings in year 5 of the deal or 400+ innings in years 4 and 5 combined for the optional 6th year to kick in. That will be a tall order for a 37 year old pitcher.

[DrDawkinstein]

there are too many people in this thread that are operating under the notion that the players OWE the "people" something. as if these guys arent supposed to take every offer and option into consideration when making a major decision that will change their life and their family members's lives. or as if they shouldnt use certain tactics when negotiating multi-million dollar contracts.

 

sorry, but the fans are the last people on the list. and i dont fault the players for that.

 

im in a sort of Account Management position, where i constantly interact, and have built pretty major relationships, with our customers. but i dont consider Matt Ryan's feelings when i look at job offers. i might consider my co-workers (=team mates) feelings. and i definitely dont consider our customer's (=fans) feelings. i have to do what is right for me and my family. just like the players do.

[RuntheDamnBall]

Lee has to pitch 200+ innings in year 5 of the deal or 400+ innings in years 4 and 5 combined for the optional 6th year to kick in. That will be a tall order for a 37 year old pitcher.

Maddux pitched over that mark every season from 37-40. If Lee is really as special a pitcher as they think they're getting when they pay that much, he'll trigger the options. If he isn't, his career is likely winding down by that point and he might not play out a longer contract. The Yanks' and Rangers deals would only be guaranteed if the player were not retired. I'm not saying he wasn't leaving money on the table, I'm just saying the gap narrows if he's consistent.

[reddogblitz]

It's business

[cmjoyce113]

I love how everyone rips Lebron when Jim Gray was asking him to do it that way for the last 2 years. Not to mention he made a bunch of money for Boys and Girls club. Everyone just buys into the shiiiii the media spews. I have no problem with how he did it... he was asked to, he is good enough to be in a position to and he eventually chose to.

 

People who can't separate what these guys do on the field or court and off the field need to figure it out... if you were truly a fan because these are good people your oblivious. The majority of pro athletes aren't anything to look up to. Separate it and enjoy what these guys do athletically that's it.

 

I have no issues at this point with Tiger, Lebron, Mike Vick, etc. I respect there performance... not how they treat people or conduct themselves.

[RuntheDamnBall]

Think what you will about Lee... but Halladay is the genuine article:

The Philadelphia Phillies "kicked around" whether they might have to adjust Roy Halladay's contract before they decided to offer Cliff Lee a deal for two more years and twice the money they guaranteed Halladay last December.

...

...before the team offered Lee a five-year deal this week, Amaro said he needed to address that issue with Halladay.

 

"Out of respect for him, I thought it was important for me to talk to him," Amaro said, following Lee's news conference Wednesday afternoon. "When we had our negotiation, I basically told him at that point, 'Listen, we're not going to extend more than three years. That's not in the cards.'"

 

But Amaro said when he explained the "special circumstances" that had caused the team to consider altering that philosophy to sign Lee, Halladay told him, "Ruben, this is completely different. This is a totally different circumstance. Do what you think you've got to do to put the best team on the field. ... All I want to do is win."

There aren't many guys in sports who are elite talents without elite egos. Doc is by far my favorite athlete, even if he isn't on my favorite team anymore.

[Jeffery Lester]

No, this isn't football, but I'm see a trend here that I think we will see in the NFL sooner or later.

 

First off, let me say that I think that sports players are no different than any other players. Once Free Agents, they have the right to sign wherever they want and for as much as they want. If we draft a guy, and he plays well for us, but has always been a Panthers fan growing up, I wouldn't hate on him for leaving for them.

 

Here is what just kills me though, and I now just hate LeBron and Cliff Lee for doing so. Both of these guys seemed to know exactly where they were intending to play. Same goes for Dwayne Wade. Yet, the minute they have the opportunity to sign somewhere, they don't. They let other teams think they have a chance to sign them, have visits with different GM's and owners, field offers, and then obviously go to their original team of choice.

 

Wade spent days in Chicago making the team and fans think they were possibly going to sign him.

 

LeBron fielded visits from many different teams at his house, and then had that circus announcement on TV, like he just make up his mind that morning.

 

And now Cliff Lee, who strung along the Rangers, having them make an offer larger than any other in their franchise. Add more years than they wanted. Took two revised offers from the Yankees. And then, takes less money than both offers to sign with the Philly's cause that is where his heart was at. The same team that traded him for prospects the previous year. The same team that showed no public interest until he got template offers from the Rangers and Yankees. And then, he has the nerve to say that the only reason he didn't sign with the Rangers was because they didn't offer him a 7th year. He only signed a 5 year deal with the Philly's?!?.

 

I think these guys do these things because they are trying to make the fans think it was a tough choice for them and it wasn't about the money in the end. To me, I think these guys are total a-holes for stringing the fans and teams along when they knew from day one what they want. That's like dating the friend to get to your real girl. Shopping at Best Buy for the product knowledge, and buying at Wal-Mart. Trying all 31 flavors and not buying a cone.

 

I don't know. Tell me if i'm wrong. But these guys are right on my list after Vick.

It is wrong to hate anyone. Especially if that person has no affect on your life.