Am I wrong hating athletes for these moves?

[Ramius]

Thank you for making this point. I keep hearing sports talk radio hosts saying how classy he is and what a great thing this is for baseball that he left $30-$40 million on the table to go play where he wanted to play and felt comfortable bringing his family, instead of just going for the money. BS. He'll be getting $24M per year in Philly. He would have gotten about $21M/year in New York and $23M/year in Texas. He went where the most money per year was, not the total value of the contract.

 

I really don't know if he strung along the Yankees or Rangers. He probably did and it was the smart thing to do - if he wanted the most money. It's not like he did this whirlwind tour like Lebron did. Pretty much every team in play came to his home in Arkansas to give their sales pitch. Lee probably wanted to keep it low-key, no matter how impossible that was going to be. Lebron just comes off as arrogant and showy because of his stupid 1-hour special to announce to the world where he was going to play.

 

Baseball contracts are guaranteed. So if Lee wanted the most money, he would have gone to the team that offered him the highest total dollar value.

[mjl4sam]

Thank you for making this point. I keep hearing sports talk radio hosts saying how classy he is and what a great thing this is for baseball that he left $30-$40 million on the table to go play where he wanted to play and felt comfortable bringing his family, instead of just going for the money. BS. He'll be getting $24M per year in Philly. He would have gotten about $21M/year in New York and $23M/year in Texas. He went where the most money per year was, not the total value of the contract.

 

I really don't know if he strung along the Yankees or Rangers. He probably did and it was the smart thing to do - if he wanted the most money. It's not like he did this whirlwind tour like Lebron did. Pretty much every team in play came to his home in Arkansas to give their sales pitch. Lee probably wanted to keep it low-key, no matter how impossible that was going to be. Lebron just comes off as arrogant and showy because of his stupid 1-hour special to announce to the world where he was going to play.

 

 

Um he definitely took less money. In 5 years from now it's HIGHLY unlikely that any team is going to give a 37 YO pitcher anywhere near the annual salary that he'll need to make up for the money he left on the table. Factor in natural age related decline along with the high reality that he'll be injured at some point, and it would take a minor miracle for him to recover the money he left on the table.

 

It may be a moot point because he made a crapload of money, but to say he "didn't really take less money" is inaccurate. If it was all about the money for Lee, he would not be a Phillie right now.

[CodeMonkey]

!@#$ Cliff Lee. I hope he goes on IR and never plays at a high level of ball again. He's a classless Dick!

So you are a Rangers fan or a Yankees fan?

 

Anyway, it is a business to the players and owners. Not sure why people have a hard time understanding that. Lee evaluated all offers, including letting teams sweeten them, before deciding on the one he wanted. Simple and understandable. And as a added bonus, he got to give the big FU to Yankees fans after one of them allegedly, and in typical classy Yankee fan style, dumped beer on his wife during the last playoffs.

Edited December 15, 2010 by CodeMonkey

[NoSaint]

The one thing everyone seems to be missing -- Lee has a son with leukemia and the #1 Childrens hospital in the country is in philadelphia.

 

This could possibly have to do with things other then baseball or money.

[JPS]

It all makes me care a little less about sports. The cold reality is: Only the top 5-7 markets have a chance to win championships in their respective sports on a regular basis...and maybe even at all any more.

 

When you see the Phillies have Lee, Halliday, Oswalt and Hamels, how do you think you think your Brewers stack up? It's becomming an uncompetitive joke. Look at the Red Sox and Yamkees and compare to the Royals. Joke.

[RealityCheck]

No, this isn't football, but I'm see a trend here that I think we will see in the NFL sooner or later.

 

First off, let me say that I think that sports players are no different than any other players. Once Free Agents, they have the right to sign wherever they want and for as much as they want. If we draft a guy, and he plays well for us, but has always been a Panthers fan growing up, I wouldn't hate on him for leaving for them.

 

Here is what just kills me though, and I now just hate LeBron and Cliff Lee for doing so. Both of these guys seemed to know exactly where they were intending to play. Same goes for Dwayne Wade. Yet, the minute they have the opportunity to sign somewhere, they don't. They let other teams think they have a chance to sign them, have visits with different GM's and owners, field offers, and then obviously go to their original team of choice.

 

Wade spent days in Chicago making the team and fans think they were possibly going to sign him.

 

LeBron fielded visits from many different teams at his house, and then had that circus announcement on TV, like he just make up his mind that morning.

 

And now Cliff Lee, who strung along the Rangers, having them make an offer larger than any other in their franchise. Add more years than they wanted. Took two revised offers from the Yankees. And then, takes less money than both offers to sign with the Philly's cause that is where his heart was at. The same team that traded him for prospects the previous year. The same team that showed no public interest until he got template offers from the Rangers and Yankees. And then, he has the nerve to say that the only reason he didn't sign with the Rangers was because they didn't offer him a 7th year. He only signed a 5 year deal with the Philly's?!?.

 

I think these guys do these things because they are trying to make the fans think it was a tough choice for them and it wasn't about the money in the end. To me, I think these guys are total a-holes for stringing the fans and teams along when they knew from day one what they want. That's like dating the friend to get to your real girl. Shopping at Best Buy for the product knowledge, and buying at Wal-Mart. Trying all 31 flavors and not buying a cone.

 

I don't know. Tell me if i'm wrong. But these guys are right on my list after Vick.

You have serious issues. These players can do what they want when it comes to free agency. Your opinion about how others should live their lives is a little short sighted and wreaks with envy.

[mjl4sam]

It all makes me care a little less about sports. The cold reality is: Only the top 5-7 markets have a chance to win championships in their respective sports on a regular basis...and maybe even at all any more.

 

When you see the Phillies have Lee, Halliday, Oswalt and Hamels, how do you think you think your Brewers stack up? It's becomming an uncompetitive joke. Look at the Red Sox and Yamkees and compare to the Royals. Joke.

 

It's no doubt much easier for the large markets to win, but if franchises are run correctly they can compete too. Just look at the Rays. Even the Royals have a really good farm system, but they keep wasting money on the Jose Guillen's (richest contract in Royals' history), Jeff Franceour's and Melky Cabrera's of the world - guys that don't help win baseball games. The disadvantage these teams have is when they make a mistake, it sets them back. Whereas if the Yankees make a mistake it doesn't matter. But if they make the right moves, any franchise can compete and the Rays are a testament to that.

 

Even the Red Sox spent money for a long time withouth any World Series' rings to show for it until they figured out they needed to make the right moves.

Edited December 15, 2010 by mjl4sam

[DrDawkinstein]

The one thing everyone seems to be missing -- Lee has a son with leukemia and the #1 Childrens hospital in the country is in philadelphia.

 

This could possibly have to do with things other then baseball or money.

 

 

DING DING DING, winner right here.

 

Gets to return to his kid's "hometown" that also happens to be the best place for him to get important medical treatment.

 

Kinda makes the first couple of posters in this thread seem like jealous a-holes.

[Virgil]

So again, let me say that I have no problems with where these guys ended up playing. Like many of you said, they were free agents and have the right to go wherever they want.

 

The only thing that bothers me is how they appear to be stringing along the fans and teams to believe that they ever intended to sign with them.

 

If Lee's heart was always in Philly and that's where he wanted to be for his family and son, then great. Understood. Then why make the Rangers and Yankees think they have a chance? Why the multiple visits. Why make statements about "we" when talking about next year in Texas. Like LeBron, Dwayne, and Lee, don't mess with people. Say hey, I want to be a Philly. And then negotiate. And if they won't give you the money, which is not gonna happen with that level of production, then talk to other teams.

 

Again, I think I was pretty clear around what I was calling out. So for those with the envy comment or saying they can do whatever, please read the whole post before making a comment and making derogatory statements.

[1B4IDie]

So again, let me say that I have no problems with where these guys ended up playing. Like many of you said, they were free agents and have the right to go wherever they want.

 

The only thing that bothers me is how they appear to be stringing along the fans and teams to believe that they ever intended to sign with them.

 

If Lee's heart was always in Philly and that's where he wanted to be for his family and son, then great. Understood. Then why make the Rangers and Yankees think they have a chance? Why the multiple visits. Why make statements about "we" when talking about next year in Texas. Like LeBron, Dwayne, and Lee, don't mess with people. Say hey, I want to be a Philly. And then negotiate. And if they won't give you the money, which is not gonna happen with that level of production, then talk to other teams.

 

Again, I think I was pretty clear around what I was calling out. So for those with the envy comment or saying they can do whatever, please read the whole post before making a comment and making derogatory statements.

How specifically did the player string anyone along? By going on an interview? By taking a few days to ponder where they would like to spend the next 6 years of their life?

 

Be upset with the hyper-coverage by the Sports Media, and the constant "news breaks" to let you know that Cliff Lee picked his nose and flicked a booger in a NE direction, therefore he is leaning towards the Yankees.

 

Its actually strange that you're getting worked up about a player negotiating with multiple teams to get the best deal.

Its actually strange that you think you can see into Cliff Lee's heart.

[mjl4sam]

So again, let me say that I have no problems with where these guys ended up playing. Like many of you said, they were free agents and have the right to go wherever they want.

 

The only thing that bothers me is how they appear to be stringing along the fans and teams to believe that they ever intended to sign with them.

 

If Lee's heart was always in Philly and that's where he wanted to be for his family and son, then great. Understood. Then why make the Rangers and Yankees think they have a chance? Why the multiple visits. Why make statements about "we" when talking about next year in Texas. Like LeBron, Dwayne, and Lee, don't mess with people. Say hey, I want to be a Philly. And then negotiate. And if they won't give you the money, which is not gonna happen with that level of production, then talk to other teams.

 

Again, I think I was pretty clear around what I was calling out. So for those with the envy comment or saying they can do whatever, please read the whole post before making a comment and making derogatory statements.

 

Who is to say he was stringing along the Yankees and the Rangers? Maybe he was seriously considering them. Plus they were the ones who decided to make the offers. And why isn't Cliff Lee allowed to use negotiating tricks? You don't think the teams do the same thing in other situations? Maybe he got some more dollars out of Philadelphia by doing so.

 

Either way, if you are going to pick on athletes this is probablys the worst case you could have chosen. The Yankees and Rangers came to Lee. He pursued all options, as anyone making such an important decision would. There was nothing unethical in this process.

[NoSaint]

So again, let me say that I have no problems with where these guys ended up playing. Like many of you said, they were free agents and have the right to go wherever they want.

 

The only thing that bothers me is how they appear to be stringing along the fans and teams to believe that they ever intended to sign with them.

 

If Lee's heart was always in Philly and that's where he wanted to be for his family and son, then great. Understood. Then why make the Rangers and Yankees think they have a chance? Why the multiple visits. Why make statements about "we" when talking about next year in Texas. Like LeBron, Dwayne, and Lee, don't mess with people. Say hey, I want to be a Philly. And then negotiate. And if they won't give you the money, which is not gonna happen with that level of production, then talk to other teams.

 

Again, I think I was pretty clear around what I was calling out. So for those with the envy comment or saying they can do whatever, please read the whole post before making a comment and making derogatory statements.

 

 

 

to say its that cut and dry is short sighted. because that was where he wanted to be he had to fly to philly and take the first deal offered? i think its fair when looking at 100 million dollar deals to atleast entertain the offers and do a little fact finding. stability was also important to him. maybe if someone else blew him away with a longer offer that would have had more value then returning to philly. also, maybe there were still pride issues/hurt feelings with being traded out of philly. you cant tell me that the man doesnt deserve to be able to do his homework and find out what hes choosing between, even if he has a pretty good idea where hes going. you have to remember, as a fan you live and die with these players moves, but they are making huge life changing decisions for them, and not all are going to rush into it.

 

Hypothetically could you fault him if his thought process was as follows:

 

NY would have been a quick trip from the hospital they had used and maybe paid him (and his family) more money

 

texas may have been where he enjoyed playing the most or felt most appreciated.

 

philly may have been where his family was happiest.

 

that might take a few days to figure out. especially when you throw in millions of dollars to the equation.

Edited December 15, 2010 by NoSaint

[Virgil]

Cliff Lee straight up said, I went to where my heart was. That's not insight, that's what he said. He said that's where he really wanted to be all along. Feel free to reference any of his statements.

 

And by stringing teams along, I mean by having these owners and GM's fly out to his house on multiple locations, and also re-up their offers. Again, that happened and can be referenced. Would you go to a job interview that you have no desire to take? Once offered, would you tell them you are looking for more to get them to bring a new offer?

 

That is what I base this on.

[MDH]

Lee didn't really take less money. The Phillies contract is more per year than any other offers. Since the contract is for 5 years instead of 7 it may seem like less money but per year it is not.

 

It is less money. Baseball money is guaranteed, so he would have seen all of the cash from the Yankees contract and he knows that there's no way a team is giving him $20m a year when/if he signs another deal 5 years from now (when he's 38 years old.) The guy left $30m on the table to play where he wanted.

 

And the OP is so far off base it's not even funny. How on earth do you know their decisions were made up right from the start? You don't, its a huge presumption on your part - particularly when Rangers management came out and said that Lee said he'd sign with them if they added another year. That doesn't sound like a guy who had his mind made up from the start.

 

I'm guessing we just have some Yankee fans who are pissed that they didn't get their guy while the Sox have made huge strides this offseason.

[1B4IDie]

Cliff Lee straight up said, I went to where my heart was. That's not insight, that's what he said. He said that's where he really wanted to be all along. Feel free to reference any of his statements.

 

And by stringing teams along, I mean by having these owners and GM's fly out to his house on multiple locations, and also re-up their offers. Again, that happened and can be referenced. Would you go to a job interview that you have no desire to take? Once offered, would you tell them you are looking for more to get them to bring a new offer?

 

That is what I base this on.

Ofcourse you take an interview with a job you're not sure about.

 

How else would you find out about the people involved in the job?

 

Your assumption that everything was predetermined is way off. An Interview is a process, sometimes you learn things you didn't know at the beginning of the process.

Sometimes there are jobs you thought you wanted then when you go on the interview you realize its not for you. Sometimes there are jobs you're not sure about when you go on the interview you are impressed.

 

Do you really only go on interviews that you somehow predetermined was the job you want?

Thats very unusual.

Edited December 15, 2010 by Why So Serious?

[RJ (not THAT RJ)]

I understand the OP's sentiments, though I also think that it makes no sense to hate people for doing what they think is in their interest, as long as they break no laws.

 

For me, all this is just another reason not to care about the individual athletes at all. I root proudly for the laundry. The team has significance for me because of its connection to my home town, not because I have any particular love for this or that person wearing the uniform. The genetically blessed millionaires who wear the uniforms don't care about me, so why should I care about them? It is not a matter of hate, but a matter of mutual interest.

[Wayne Cubed]

Cliff Lee straight up said, I went to where my heart was. That's not insight, that's what he said. He said that's where he really wanted to be all along. Feel free to reference any of his statements.

 

And by stringing teams along, I mean by having these owners and GM's fly out to his house on multiple locations, and also re-up their offers. Again, that happened and can be referenced. Would you go to a job interview that you have no desire to take? Once offered, would you tell them you are looking for more to get them to bring a new offer?

 

That is what I base this on.

 

First are you a GM? No, so why care.... Im pretty sure the GMs of these teams are fine. They play this game all the time with other free agents. You win some, you lose some. Its nothing to take personnal.

 

Second, i would most certainly entertain other jobs if in the end its gonna get me the money i want and the place i want to be. Why is that so terrible? It happens all the time, in regular jobs too. Thats what negotiating a job contract is all about.

[justnzane]

i also disagree with the OP. When you go job hunting, you don't apply at just one place. Instead, you apply at 30,40, 50 or even more places. If you get interviews from multiple companies, you must take into account: salary, benefits, workplace environment, location, promotion possibilities, and supervisor. For Lee, he did just that. He didn't go on ESPN for a one hour special to shun his hometown, he didn't collude with other free agents to land in the same ****ty city, and didn't sell out to the highest bidder. He took a very reasonable approach to earn a "fair" salary for his talents and have another chance at a World Series.

 

I also agree that athletes are paid too much, which in turn is why our ticket prices are insane.

[RuntheDamnBall]

He takes less money and years to play where he wants and gets hammered. If he went to the yanks he'd be a money hungry mercenary. He went where he wanted get a life.

 

LBJ otoh had the worst public display of douchebaggery ever and deserves to be ridiculed. Wade at least had ties to Chicago and imo was really considering going there.

This.

 

Lebron and Lee couldn't be more different. LBJ took TV time to humiliate the city that embraced him. Lee took a normal amount of time during free agency to make a family decision.

 

Most of the lambasting of Lee is coming from bitter Yankees fans, confused that their divine right to every player they offer the most money to has been violated. It must not help that a few bad apple d-bag Yanks fans are in part responsible for this, as they heckled and spit on Lee's wife in NY. Maybe a lesson to corral your own when you see your fellow fan being a dick to someone. I feel bad for Texas, but they get two very high draft picks out of this, so the loss of prospects is mitigated by Lee helping them to the most successful postseason ever for the Rangers.

 

I'm sure Lee was most interested in Philly, but they didn't drop into the picture till the winter meetings. When it was decided the money difference was pretty negligible, and he was comfortable with the atmosphere in Philly, and he gets to pitch in the N LEast instead of facing BOS/TB/TOR and pitching in high-pressure NY, it kind of became a no-brainer.

 

The real story here is that the media don't know stojan, hence everyone's surprise. Laughably, Jon Heyman of SI, who usually gets it wrong with regularity, had the scoop about the #mysteryteam. Everyone, myself included, thought he was making this up and was a mouthpiece for Lee's agent to help drive up the price.

[Rob's House]

You can't fault a guy for evaluating his options. I can relate to the idea that if you're a multi-millionaire what's the difference, but if I were in those shoes I might feel differently. Especially given the prospect of pricey business ventures one may want to pursue, it makes sense. Lebron, however, is just an ass who, whether he already knew or not, didn't need to throw a "look at me" infomercial to give Cleveland the proverbial middle finger on national TV.

 

Can't blame the players -- the owner's really are the rule makers in each and every one of these pro sports leagues.

Didn't James increase the value of his "brand" with all that nonsense?

"King" James got knocked off his throne with this spectacle. He went from being the most hyped and celebrated star in the NBA to its most villified. If this was an attempt at branding it was the biggest flop since the Taco Bell dog.