Chan Gailey has done it again.

[SouthernMan]

We have Fitzpatrick at QB, a bunch of scrubs at WR (except evans, who is inconsequential), a very patchwork OL, no TE's to speak of, a div. 3 RB, and CJ Spiller, and somehow we move the ball. Got nearly 200 on the ground, and Fitz has td passes in 14 straight games.

 

Admit it, one and all. Chan Gailey knows how to run an offense. Give us a couple years to get a defense, and get ready for the playoffs.

 

I don't disagree that Gailey is doing a good job running the offense, but when you make statements like "evans, who is inconsequential" and "a div.3 RB" - it sounds like spin intended to bolster the argument. I don't think it's fair to minimize the talent based on current stats or humble beginnings.

 

What does Jackson's Div III college career have to do with what he is today? Evans inconsequential? Maybe he's part of the reason Stevie has been open. Fred is not a division 3 RB. He's an NFL running back - and a damn good one. As far as those scrub WR go, Nelson and Jones, though overlooked in the draft, are showing they're "ballers". I think Nelson is just getting revved up. I predict he could be a star - a go to guy - if that endzone catch is any indication.

 

Yeah, give Kudos to Gailey for utilizing his talent, but irregardless of the wasted high draft picks in recent years, someone in the Bills scouting ranks is doing a hell of a job finding men who want to play ball. It's puzzling how they can do so well in later rounds (Stevie, Kyle) and free agency, yet missing so badly on "sure thing" draft choices.

Edited December 14, 2010 by DML2005

[Mr. WEO]

What you would (conveniently) call "no control over his QB" I'd call "faith in his QB." And in every case, Fitz had the Bills in position to win the game in OT passing the ball. So the faith wasn't entirely misguided.

 

But the simplistic notion that a few more runs in opponents' territory would have led to wins is laughable in and of itself. But I guess instead of Shawn Nelson fumbling, it could have been Fred Jackson fumbling. Or instead of Steve Jackson dropping the TD pass, it could have been Spiller getting stuffed at the LOS, necessitating passing on the next 2 downs.

Not quite. On the final possessions in the KC and Steelers games, big gains (and first downs putting the Bills inside opponents 45 yard line) cam e on run plays. Both were followed exclusively by passing plays and punts.

 

What is simplistic is your argument that runs should not have been attempted because they may have resulted in turnovers or no gain. Interesting thought--especially from a guy who harps on Fitz's untimely INTs.

[8-8 Forever?]

Okay, somebody has to ask:

 

What is Curtis Modkin's role in all this? Is he the sorcerer's apprentice? The heir apparent?

Yes, he is. Chan said long ago he would be playing offensive coordinator probably for this season only. Doesn't mean he can't change his mind.

[Dan]

But they have a SB Trophy. Let me ask you one question. Are you from Buffalo or even Western New York? Or, if you are, were you old enough to remember the joy and pain of watching the Bills play in and lose 4 consecutive SB's in the early 90's?? I would guess not, or...you don't share the passion of many older Bills fans who were born and raised in Buffalo and who just desperately want to see the Bills win ONE SB Championship, and/or the Sabres win just ONE Stanley Cup, in their life times.

 

Those Rams above went from a really bad team in 1998 to a SB Champion in 1999...over one damn season. The Dolphins, Falcons, Bucs, Jags, Raiders, Chiefs, Cardinals have all gone from one lousy season to a winning playoff season the very next year over this past decade. It's not a myth, and it happens every year. Jerry Sullivan said it best, and I do not agree with a lot of what Sully says on a daily basis, but he said "every season is an entity in itself." And with FA and the Cap, that has never been more true.

 

Bottom line, if the Bills "contend for a wildcard" next year (if they play football in 2011) after going 3-13 or perhaps 4-12 this season...even if they win out and finish 6-10 this season, get hot next year and make the playoffs, then they too can be added to my long list of teams that had a great one year turn around. And you said they may contend for a playoff spot next season.

 

Well, if they get hot down the stretch, make the playoffs as a wildcard and miraculously win the SB, I don't care what you or anyone else thinks on this board, the Bills could then go on and lose again for 11 more seasons and I would still be a happy and content life time Bills fan. My Buffalo Bills will have won a SB in my lifetime. What if Nix and Gailey take another few seasons and rebuild the team into a Chargers-like annual winner.....but continue to never win the SB over the next 11 years, despite 9 of them being winning and playoff seasons??? That's all you want to see them do, just be a good team year after year? Sorry, I've watched them be bad year after year then good for a few years then bad for a few years then great for almost 12 years and now bad again for 11 years.......Been There, Done That. I want just one magic SB winning season for the Buffalo Bills while they remain the Buffalo Bills, and before I die. You can have 5 straight AFC East Division Championships and 10 consecutive years in the playoffs and being "a winning team" year after year and blah blah blah.

 

If they don't win at least one SB in the middle of all that winning, like back in the 90's, it won't mean anything to me.

I guess we just have different ideas on what we'd like to see. You seem to prefer selling out and doing whatever is possible for one SB season next year. I'd prefer the Bills build a foundation so they can have multiple SB seasons over the next decade.

 

By your definition almost half the SB winning teams had a great turnaround in one season to win it all (I'm not going back to look at everyone's record pre-SB year so I made a blanket statement). The Rams did not go from bad to good in one season. They hired a new HC and began to put the pieces in place; then 3 years later they got to the SB. And, mostly because they lucked out and had Kurt Warner on their roster. And all of those other teams you mentioned haven't gone from perennial losers to SB contender in one year during this decade... the Chiefs? the Jags? really?

 

My initial point was about the Dolphins. They had a great turnaround year... going from 1-15 to 11-5. Yes, that's great. But, not even you are talking about improving in one season to just make the playoffs. And that's the example that most people bring to the table when they complain that the Bills aren't doing it fast enough. To be comparable to the Bills, give me an example of a team that's had a losing record for 5+ years, hired a new FO, HC, and then turned it around the next year. That's what I'm suggesting hasn't happened because that's what people continually suggest should happen.

 

We all want to win the Super Bowl, some of us would like to win more than one. But, to completely revamp this team in one year is unprecedented. Even if the Bills make it next year, it would still have been a 2 year turn around. This is year 1 of a rebuild. They've, hopefully, laid a foundation from which to build. I expect/hope that next year we'll see significant progress. If so, then they're on the right track. But there's a lot more to winning a SB than just getting a few players on your team and then going out and winning it all. In fact, if you look at each of the SB winning teams, you'll find that most all of them had certain key pieces in place for many years before they finally changed the HC or got a RB or added whatever final piece to finally get to and/or win the big one.

 

The Saints last year had a great year and finally won one. But how long was Brees on that team first - 3 years prior to '09. My question to you is do you have the patience to wait 3-4 years for the current regime to get to the SB? Because it's far more likely that the pieces they're putting in place now will take at least that long to produce consistently. That's just one of the reasons why drafting the wrong QB can set a franchise back for years (and how many of those bad drafts have we endured this past decade).

[Doc]

Not quite. On the final possessions in the KC and Steelers games, big gains (and first downs putting the Bills inside opponents 45 yard line) came on run plays. Both were followed exclusively by passing plays and punts.

 

What is simplistic is your argument that runs should not have been attempted because they may have resulted in turnovers or no gain. Interesting thought--especially from a guy who harps on Fitz's untimely INTs.

The point, which you miss as usual, is the Bills failed as a team to win in OT. Claiming that not running the ball to get into FG range was the difference between winning and losing, especially with Lindell's mini-funk, is funny, and had those plays been stuffed, no doubt you would have said he should have passed . The play calls worked to get the Bills a chance to score and win in OT, but mistakes by the players cost them. You only get so many chances. Again it's not unlikely that Fitz audibled out of 1st down passing plays, seeing that the defense was expecting the run, and when they failed on 1st down basically pigeon-holed the Bills into having to pass the remainder of the downs.

 

Look, I know you are committed to blaming Gailey, because he wasn't a high-priced coach. But how are Shanahan and Carroll doing?

[Mr. WEO]

The point, which you miss as usual, is the Bills failed as a team to win in OT. Claiming that not running the ball to get into FG range was the difference between winning and losing, especially with Lindell's mini-funk, is funny, and had those plays been stuffed, no doubt you would have said he should have passed . The play calls worked to get the Bills a chance to score and win in OT, but mistakes by the players cost them. You only get so many chances. Again it's not unlikely that Fitz audibled out of 1st down passing plays, seeing that the defense was expecting the run, and when they failed on 1st down basically pigeon-holed the Bills into having to pass the remainder of the downs.

 

Look, I know you are committed to blaming Gailey, because he wasn't a high-priced coach. But how are Shanahan and Carroll doing?

I'm blaming Gailey because he made no adjustment to his failed plan (nice try, though). The team failed--poorly coached in thsoe OTs. The passing didn't put them into that position on the final possessions--running did. My opinion is that they hardly ran at all in OT and that caused them a chance to win at least one of those games. No change was made one game to the next. It was clearly not hard for opponents to defend.

 

Lindell's "mini-funk"? Carroll?

 

Shanahan is taking his lumps on that crappy team. My guess is he wouldn't have called for those 26 pass plays if he was coaching the Bills.

[BillsPhan]

I guess we just have different ideas on what we'd like to see. You seem to prefer selling out and doing whatever is possible for one SB season next year. I'd prefer the Bills build a foundation so they can have multiple SB seasons over the next decade.....

 

The Rams did not go from bad to good in one season....

 

And all of those other teams you mentioned haven't gone from perennial losers to SB contender in one year during this decade...the Chiefs? the Jags? really?...

 

My question to you is do you have the patience to wait 3-4 years for the current regime to get to the SB?.....

 

...There is just no guarantee that this solid foundation you are so patient to wait for will present "multiple SB seasons" over the next decade. Of course it would be more fun watching them win and make the playoffs, and I too would love to see the Bills win more then one SB. But I still do not believe that you have to take 4 years to "build" into a SB contender, because SB winners have taken less time.

 

....How can you keep saying the Rams did not go from bad to good over one season? You consider 4-12-0 in 1998 a good season?

 

...I never said those teams went from bad to SB contenders in one season. I said they went from bad to playoff teams over one season, and I also pointed out those other teams that went from bad or at best average to SB winners in one season. I am counting this season for the Chiefs and Jags more then their performances earlier this decade, although I know the Jags have jumped up and down a couple of times during that time.

 

...I have the patience to watch the Bills lose for 11 more straight seasons if they are still called the Buffalo Bills, I watch or listen to them every week they play. "Patience" is not an issue as far as my die hard loyalty as a Bills fan. But I watch how free agents improve other teams from one season to the next, and it frustrates me that Ralph's "football people" these past 11 playoff - less years either spent too much on the wrong ones, or decided not to spend enough or for whatever reasons did not bring in the right ones. And even I agree that the draft is still extremely important to become and then remain a SB contender, and we all know how pathetic most of the drafts have been during the past decade, too.

 

But you are right, we do disagree fundamentally on the fact that with FA and the salary cap, I am convinced you can build a SB winning team faster then Buddy Nix and you seem to think you need. We all want the same thing however, and that is that elusive Lombardi Trophy to come to One Bills Drive one of these seasons!!

[Dan]

...There is just no guarantee that this solid foundation you are so patient to wait for will present "multiple SB seasons" over the next decade. Of course it would be more fun watching them win and make the playoffs, and I too would love to see the Bills win more then one SB. But I still do not believe that you have to take 4 years to "build" into a SB contender, because SB winners have taken less time.

 

....How can you keep saying the Rams did not go from bad to good over one season? You consider 4-12-0 in 1998 a good season?

 

...I never said those teams went from bad to SB contenders in one season. I said they went from bad to playoff teams over one season, and I also pointed out those other teams that went from bad or at best average to SB winners in one season. I am counting this season for the Chiefs and Jags more then their performances earlier this decade, although I know the Jags have jumped up and down a couple of times during that time.

 

...I have the patience to watch the Bills lose for 11 more straight seasons if they are still called the Buffalo Bills, I watch or listen to them every week they play. "Patience" is not an issue as far as my die hard loyalty as a Bills fan. But I watch how free agents improve other teams from one season to the next, and it frustrates me that Ralph's "football people" these past 11 playoff - less years either spent too much on the wrong ones, or decided not to spend enough or for whatever reasons did not bring in the right ones. And even I agree that the draft is still extremely important to become and then remain a SB contender, and we all know how pathetic most of the drafts have been during the past decade, too.

 

But you are right, we do disagree fundamentally on the fact that with FA and the salary cap, I am convinced you can build a SB winning team faster then Buddy Nix and you seem to think you need. We all want the same thing however, and that is that elusive Lombardi Trophy to come to One Bills Drive one of these seasons!!

And with that I can wholeheartedly agree!

[Blaise321]

This thread has been a pleasure to read. Nice debate with good points on both sides. Well done!

 

I personally like the approach that the Bills are taking to rebuild. I agree that there are teams that have made vast improvements in less than two years but don't seem to have the longevity that you get from a more methodical approach.

[Doc]

I'm blaming Gailey because he made no adjustment to his failed plan (nice try, though). The team failed--poorly coached in thsoe OTs. The passing didn't put them into that position on the final possessions--running did. My opinion is that they hardly ran at all in OT and that caused them a chance to win at least one of those games. No change was made one game to the next. It was clearly not hard for opponents to defend.

 

Lindell's "mini-funk"? Carroll?

 

Shanahan is taking his lumps on that crappy team. My guess is he wouldn't have called for those 26 pass plays if he was coaching the Bills.

"His failed plan?" Bahahahahahahaha! As if "his plan" was for Nelson to have the ball stripped, or Lindell to miss the re-kick, or Johnson to drop a perfectly-thrown TD.

 

Again doc, the Bills were in position to win ALL 3 of those games, but player mistakes, not Gailey's plan, were largely responsible for the losses. Believing that running at X spot on the field would have won the game and that Gailey was solely responsible for all the pass plays called is lame, even for you. But again, I know you need to lay the blame mostly at Gailey's feet, because he's not Shanahan, or god knows what other inconsistent reason you have to dislike him.

 

As for Shanahan, there is no excuse for the Redskins' offense to be ranked lower in points scored than last year, given his history and pricetag. And his move to the 3-4 was similarly a "disaster." Yet here you are defending him because he is "taking his lumps on a crappy team" largely of his own making. Typical.

[sweatpantsjoe]

Yeah, they're still like 27th in total offense.

[akm0404]

27th is plenty good for us. We broke the top 30! Rejoice!

[Doc]

Again, the Bills are tied for 17th in PPG under Fitz. Carry on.

[RuntheDamnBall]

I'm expecting Buddy to make a splash in FA and have a better draft featuring players from colleges every Bills fan has actually heard from this next off season, and I am really expecting Chan's Bills to compete for the playoffs next season, not three years from now!

Yeah, NO BUMS FROM

KUTZTOWN STATE, or

WABASH, or

NORTHWESTERN, or

NORTH DAKOTA STATE, or

ALABAMA A&M, or

OCCIDENTAL...

 

I WANT TO SAY I HAVE HEARD OF THEIR COLLEGE! BIG COLLEGE PROGRAM = BIG NFL WINS!

[The Big Cat]

Yeah, NO BUMS FROM

KUTZTOWN STATE, or

WABASH, or

NORTHWESTERN, or

NORTH DAKOTA STATE, or

ALABAMA A&M, or

OCCIDENTAL...

 

I WANT TO SAY I HAVE HEARD OF THEIR COLLEGE! BIG COLLEGE PROGRAM = BIG NFL WINS!

 

You forgot James Madison...!

[RuntheDamnBall]

You forgot James Madison...!

I hope to add it to the list after a few more seasons. Kid does look like a player.

[akm0404]

Again, the Bills are tied for 17th in PPG under Fitz. Carry on.

Sweet, the best stat you can cherry pick over a particular portion of the season STILL puts us in the bottom half of the league.

 

Are we supposed to put him on the Wall of Fame for being the 17th best at something? Kind of sickening that being in the bottom half of something instead of the bottom quarter (as we are in most facets of offense) get us all moist in the shorts.

[Doc]

Sweet, the best stat you can cherry pick over a particular portion of the season STILL puts us in the bottom half of the league.

 

Are we supposed to put him on the Wall of Fame for being the 17th best at something? Kind of sickening that being in the bottom half of something instead of the bottom quarter (as we are in most facets of offense) get us all moist in the shorts.

It could be worse. We could have that other "genius" and be 28th in scoring offense.

[Mr. WEO]

It could be worse. We could have that other "genius" and be 28th in scoring offense.

SO when the Skins don't players don't execute, it's the coach's fault. When the Bills blow 3 OT games (80% pass plays vs. 53% the rest of the season), the coaching was perfect but the execution was flawed.

[RuntheDamnBall]

SO when the Skins don't players don't execute, it's the coach's fault. When the Bills blow 3 OT games (80% pass plays vs. 53% the rest of the season), the coaching was perfect but the execution was flawed.

I can't vouch for the skins, but if Shawn Nelson doesn't get stripped (or the officials stop the goddamned play), or if Lindell makes his kick, or if Johnson doesn't get alligator arms, those are wins.

 

I know, ifs are for losers, but I don't know how you can take issue with winning strategy that was sabotaged only by poor execution on the part of a single player.