Kraig Urbik

[BillsVet]

Why to we have to settle for other teams cut players as our starters? Why cant we sign Logan Mankins - maybe the NFLs best G - and play him at RG, then move Wood to center. How about we actually move towards WINNING the division, and not LOSING it. Lets get dominant along the OL, and not serviceable. Lets get better instead of treading water. We need to significantly improve, not just get by with what we already have

 

Teams don't succeed on offense because they've got great interior OL play. It's good to have, especially against 34 NT's, but winning in the NFL means passing the ball and having OT's who can play on an island against good pass rushers. The Bills have rolled the dice far too many times on practice squad types and late round picks and the result is more sacks and QB hits yielded. I think Fitzpatrick knew this early on Sunday and it showed.

 

Just for the sake of argument though, look at Baltimore's starting O line on Sunday: Oher, Grubbs, Birk, Chester, Yanda. That's 2 1sts, a 2nd, a 3rd, and a top free agent from 2009. What I wouldn't give to have Steve Bisciotti for an owner who gives Ozzie Newsome the freedom to do what he does best: find talent that wins games.

Edited December 8, 2010 by BillsVet

[billsfan89]

I understand and I like Urbik - I was astonished he when he was cut. But expecting the Bills to draft well may be the dumbest thing I could do right now. Relying on other teams cast offs isn't going to beat the Jets or Patriots. We need to get some PB caliber players in here like when Spikes/Sam Adams came in to take our D to the top. We sucked back then and those guys signed. Buffalo the city hasn't changed since then. Those guys came here because we recruited them and they liked our promise and fan base. Nowadays its like the Bills dont even try. Of course they wont come here if we dont even try.

 

Not every guy in the NFL wants his own reality TV show like ocho-dope-o. Mankins lives on a huge ranch in bumble f*** Montana and loves hunting - sounds more like a Buffalo guy than a Boston, NYC, or Miami guy. Joe Thomas (yes I know not a FA just an example) skipped attending the draft to go fishing with his pops. Not everyone has a huge ego, some of them are small town farm boys who would love the blue collar Buffalo. Some guy would want to come here if we ever committed to winning and went out after these guys and made them feel wanted. Nix sleeping when FA opens is NOT the way to do it.

 

I agree that there should be an effort to sign free agents to try and supplement the team however as long as Ralph has this team run by a group of people not just one GM making the final decision the team will not attract free agents. As much as Donahoe sucked he was given total autonomy to run the team which gave him better flexibility to go after free agents. That's why we were able to get guys like Spikes, Fletcher, and Adams.

 

However since Donahoe flamed out Ralph has delegated the organizational power amongst many men and its impeded the teams progress in terms of getting talent via free agency and in general. IF Donahoe wanted to get Spikes all he had to do was just talk to his agent and put the full court press on him and his agent.

 

Now if Nix wanted to go out and get a top tier guy he has to clear it among a lot of other people. Throw in the fact that thanks to the raising of the salary cap the economics of football have changed drastically where the Bills can't compete fiscally for free agents.

 

All in all its really about the draft and player development. You also have to try and supplement the roster with some diamonds in the rough and that includes players from other teams.

Edited December 8, 2010 by billsfan89

[Thoner7]

Teams don't succeed on offense because they've got great interior OL play. It's good to have, especially against 34 NT's, but winning in the NFL means passing the ball and having OT's who can play on an island against good pass rushers. The Bills have rolled the dice far too many times on practice squad types and late round picks and the result is more sacks and QB hits yielded. I think Fitzpatrick knew this early on Sunday and it showed.

 

Just for the sake of argument though, look at Baltimore's starting O line on Sunday: Oher, Grubbs, Birk, Chester, Yanda. That's 2 1sts, a 2nd, a 3rd, and a top free agent from 2009. What I wouldn't give to have Steve Bisciotti for an owner who gives Ozzie Newsome the freedom to do what he does best: find talent that wins games.

 

Teams don’t need good interior line play? There is a reason top guards are commanding 7= mil a season these days. Bills have been manhandled on the interior for years and it has directly killed our our offense. Just look at the final four from last year. Vikings – Hutchinsen is a top 5 G, NO – Jari evans and Carl Nicks 2 of the best Gs in the league. Jets – Fanaca and Mangold, Mangold is the leagues best C and Fanaca was very dominant too (now that he is gone their running game has suffered mightily). Indy has a HOF Center in Jeff Saturday. Literally all of those guys are in the top 10-20th percentile at their respective positions. You say the NFL means passing the ball – well that means QBs have to step up field. When you are bum rushed up the middle you cannot avoid that rush, when you can avoid outside rushes by stepping up in the pocket.

 

I agree that there should be an effort to sign free agents to try and supplement the team however as long as Ralph has this team run by a group of people not just one GM making the final decision the team will not attract free agents. As much as Donahoe sucked he was given total autonomy to run the team which gave him better flexibility to go after free agents. That's why we were able to get guys like Spikes, Fletcher, and Adams.

 

However since Donahoe flamed out Ralph has delegated the organizational power amongst many men and its impeded the teams progress in terms of getting talent via free agency and in general. IF Donahoe wanted to get Spikes all he had to do was just talk to his agent and put the full court press on him and his agent.

 

Now if Nix wanted to go out and get a top tier guy he has to clear it among a lot of other people. Throw in the fact that thanks to the raising of the salary cap the economics of football have changed drastically where the Bills can't compete fiscally for free agents.

 

All in all its really about the draft and player development. You also have to try and supplement the roster with some diamonds in the rough and that includes players from other teams.

 

 

The Bills have plenty of money to pay for players – just look at Evans and Kelsay. We are routinely above other teams in terms of spending who are much more talented, we just do not allocate it properly. Beside, that argument has a farts chance in the wind until the dang naming rights tot the stadium are sold. Ralph can B word all he wants but he wont get a bit of sympathy from me while he pisses away millions of dolars a year just to name the stadium after himself.

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

Cause maybe you don't need the NFL's best guard. Would be an improvment, yes, but there are other positions where signing the NFL's best (fill in the blank) vs what we currentyl have would be a much bigger improvment. Like DE, or LB to start with. Most often teams sign there own players who are really good and worth what they are asking for. So what are left as free agents are mostly blems. Often teams are good at hiding their imprefections, so others think they are getting something worthwhile. When it comes to FA's it's buyer beware. We just used two #1 picks two years ago on two guards. Now you want to use another. I'm not against moving Wood to center, but essentially that means using a #1 on a center which is somewhat high for that position. That what makes teams stay weak longterm when you panic and continuelly give up on players too soon. From what was shown this seaosn, the Bill's have four quality players in AL, EW, DB, and Urbik. The yhave three good backups who could start in Wrotto, Howerd, and Hang. I'd have no problem using a 3rd rounder on a RT, but I 'd likely let him sit for a year and start Howerd or Wrotto there.

 

Why to we have to settle for other teams cut players as our starters? Why cant we sign Logan Mankins - maybe the NFLs best G - and play him at RG, then move Wood to center. How about we actually move towards WINNING the division, and not LOSING it. Lets get dominant along the OL, and not serviceable. Lets get better instead of treading water. We need to significantly improve, not just get by with what we already have

[Thoner7]

Cause maybe you don't need the NFL's best guard. Would be an improvment, yes, but there are other positions where signing the NFL's best (fill in the blank) vs what we currently have would be a much bigger improvement. Like DE, or LB to start with. Most often teams sign there own players who are really good and worth what they are asking for. So what are left as free agents are mostly blems. Often teams are good at hiding their imprefections, so others think they are getting something worthwhile. When it comes to FA's it's buyer beware. We just used two #1 picks two years ago on two guards. Now you want to use another. I'm not against moving Wood to center, but essentially that means using a #1 on a center which is somewhat high for that position. That what makes teams stay weak longterm when you panic and continuelly give up on players too soon. From what was shown this seaosn, the Bill's have four quality players in AL, EW, DB, and Urbik. The yhave three good backups who could start in Wrotto, Howerd, and Hang. I'd have no problem using a 3rd rounder on a RT, but I 'd likely let him sit for a year and start Howerd or Wrotto there.

 

Reading your post it seems that you are content with our current OL outside of maybe RT. Its almost like you don’t want the team to sign one of the best Gs in the league. That strikes me as you don’t want this team to improve? Like you are happy with what we have had for 10 years. Maybe you are, who knows, but just because we are worse off at DE or LB doesn’t mean we should improve our other still weak positions. And also, who cares if Wood was a 1st rounder – he should still be moved to G or TE or QB if it would make the team better. PS I just got word that he will be moving to C this week – so we can see how he does with Howard at G.

 

Last year Peppers was on the market – yet all the fans thought signing him was a bad idea because he cost too much money. He went to the Bears, who drafted 11th while we drafted 9th (not much worse than us) and Chicago has just as crappy weather – yet he went there. Now they have the #1 ranked defense in the league and Peppers has been worth every penny and then some.

 

The Bills cannot ask for a great DE or LB to be a FA this year. If there is one I would hope the Bills sign him. But it looks like Mankins is a sure fire FA at this point and probably the best at ANY position, and he would be a significant improvement to this team. That is not a panic or knee-jerk reaction that will hurt the team long-term, and that’s not me giving up on Wood, Levitre, or Urbik, but rather an ongoing effort to get the best team on the field.

 

This OL is very close. With 2 key additions we could have a great starting line up and be very deep. Mankins is a guy we could add, who you know is great, and not use a valuable draft pick to do it. That means a 2nd or third could be used on another player and we don’t have to worry much about the OL for 5 years. We need to set a foundation to build off of and I hope we do.

[PromoTheRobot]

Last year Peppers was on the market – yet all the fans thought signing him was a bad idea because he cost too much money. He went to the Bears, who drafted 11th while we drafted 9th (not much worse than us) and Chicago has just as crappy weather – yet he went there.

You ever been to Chicago?

 

PTR

[Phil Hansen Forever]

I think Hangartner's expendable. I'd rather keep Levitre-Wood-Urbik inside. Move Bell to RT and get a better LT.

Hangartner's just horrible. I can't believe we signed him. When the season is over, dump his ass.

[qdawg in philly]

Why to we have to settle for other teams cut players as our starters? Why cant we sign Logan Mankins - maybe the NFLs best G - and play him at RG, then move Wood to center. How about we actually move towards WINNING the division, and not LOSING it. Lets get dominant along the OL, and not serviceable. Lets get better instead of treading water. We need to significantly improve, not just get by with what we already have

HELLO!!! NO ONE WANTS TO COME HERE!!!

[San Jose Bills Fan]

I agree with Thoner.

 

Bringing in a guy like Logan Mankins would be huge. Yes I like all the Bills younger interior O-linemen but a player like Mankins doesn't come available very often. He would immediately give the team credibility if they could sign him. It could pave the way for other free agents to consider the Bills.

 

In addition, Mankins would immediately become by far, the best blocker on the team and the experienced leader that this offensive line lacks at the moment (apologies to Hangartner, who I like). With players like Mankins, Wood, and Urbik on the interior, we would have a very nice power running element to the team.

[Pilsner]

HELLO!!! NO ONE WANTS TO COME HERE!!!

 

 

That's why having a coach like Chan, with a plan comes in handy. The day will come when FA's won't avoid us like the plague anymore. It could be next year or the year after. But that day will come. Chan and Nix are on a mission. Players notice this. The media already has.

[Johnny Hammersticks]

Reading your post it seems that you are content with our current OL outside of maybe RT. Its almost like you don’t want the team to sign one of the best Gs in the league. That strikes me as you don’t want this team to improve? Like you are happy with what we have had for 10 years. Maybe you are, who knows, but just because we are worse off at DE or LB doesn’t mean we should improve our other still weak positions. And also, who cares if Wood was a 1st rounder – he should still be moved to G or TE or QB if it would make the team better. PS I just got word that he will be moving to C this week – so we can see how he does with Howard at G.

 

Last year Peppers was on the market – yet all the fans thought signing him was a bad idea because he cost too much money. He went to the Bears, who drafted 11th while we drafted 9th (not much worse than us) and Chicago has just as crappy weather – yet he went there. Now they have the #1 ranked defense in the league and Peppers has been worth every penny and then some.

 

The Bills cannot ask for a great DE or LB to be a FA this year. If there is one I would hope the Bills sign him. But it looks like Mankins is a sure fire FA at this point and probably the best at ANY position, and he would be a significant improvement to this team. That is not a panic or knee-jerk reaction that will hurt the team long-term, and that’s not me giving up on Wood, Levitre, or Urbik, but rather an ongoing effort to get the best team on the field.

 

This OL is very close. With 2 key additions we could have a great starting line up and be very deep. Mankins is a guy we could add, who you know is great, and not use a valuable draft pick to do it. That means a 2nd or third could be used on another player and we don’t have to worry much about the OL for 5 years. We need to set a foundation to build off of and I hope we do.

 

The interior of our offensive line is the least of our worries. If Ralphie is going to open up the wallet and cough up some dough for a top-tier free agent, I would be pissed if it was a guard or center.

 

I agree with Thoner.

 

Bringing in a guy like Logan Mankins would be huge. Yes I like all the Bills younger interior O-linemen but a player like Mankins doesn't come available very often. He would immediately give the team credibility if they could sign him. It could pave the way for other free agents to consider the Bills.

 

In addition, Mankins would immediately become by far, the best blocker on the team and the experienced leader that this offensive line lacks at the moment (apologies to Hangartner, who I like). With players like Mankins, Wood, and Urbik on the interior, we would have a very nice power running element to the team.

 

Where does that leave Levitre? IMO...he is too good of a player to be a back-up.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

Where does that leave Levitre? IMO...he is too good of a player to be a back-up.

I was thinking Mankins-Wood-Levitre…with Hangman and Urbik backing up all three positions. But with or without Mankins, I trust the team will put the right pieces in place…once they're all healthy.

[Johnny Hammersticks]

HELLO!!! NO ONE WANTS TO COME HERE!!!

 

If you win (and are willing to pay) they will come.

[The Big Cat]

You ever been to Chicago?

 

PTR

 

Ooooo, buddy. Not sure what you mean to imply, but in terms of dry, windy, unbearably painful cold, Chicago has Buffalo licked.

 

Personally, I'll take 3 feet of snow over this snowless wind tunnel I live in now.

[Fezmid]

Personally, I'll take 3 feet of snow over this snowless wind tunnel I live in now.

 

I disagree - I prefer the cold over the snow because I don't have to be outside shoveling the cold...

[Johnny Hammersticks]

Ooooo, buddy. Not sure what you mean to imply, but in terms of dry, windy, unbearably painful cold, Chicago has Buffalo licked.

 

Personally, I'll take 3 feet of snow over this snowless wind tunnel I live in now.

 

Agreed...love Chicago, but the winters are BRUTAL cold and windy. I have lived in both places during winter time, and I would much prefer WNY winters.

[The Big Cat]

I disagree - I prefer the cold over the snow because I don't have to be outside shoveling the cold...

 

And there you have it. Try standing two and half stories above ground on an el platform at 6:55 a.m., 17 degrees with winds gusting at 25 mph, ooooooooooooh the things I'd do for a car in those moments, snow be damned...

 

Agreed...love Chicago, but the winters are BRUTAL cold and windy. I have lived in both places during winter time, and I would much prefer WNY winters.

 

And the dryness, OH THE DRYNESS! The first blast of winter (which we've had here over the past two weeks) dries my eyes out something FIERCE. Waking up in the middle of the night, feeling like someone's trying to yank your eyeball back THROUGH your socket, being unable to sit in a room with the lights on, and constantly looking like you have demon eyes...yeah no fun.

[Fezmid]

And there you have it. Try standing two and half stories above ground on an el platform at 6:55 a.m., 17 degrees with winds gusting at 25 mph, ooooooooooooh the things I'd do for a car in those moments, snow be damned...

 

And the dryness, OH THE DRYNESS! The first blast of winter (which we've had here over the past two weeks) dries my eyes out something FIERCE. Waking up in the middle of the night, feeling like someone's trying to yank your eyeball back THROUGH your socket, being unable to sit in a room with the lights on, and constantly looking like you have demon eyes...yeah no fun.

Ahh, good point - my feelings may change if we had to take trains here in Minnesota.

 

I know what you mean about the dryness too -- my eyes are always dry regardless of the season, but my nose and throat get really dry around this time of the year. I think I'm going to buy a humidifier and see if that helps.

[The Big Cat]

Ahh, good point - my feelings may change if we had to take trains here in Minnesota.

 

I know what you mean about the dryness too -- my eyes are always dry regardless of the season, but my nose and throat get really dry around this time of the year. I think I'm going to buy a humidifier and see if that helps.

 

What's crazy is that even on these viciously cold mornings I still see these idiots--who are old enough to know better--on their way to work, jacket unzipped, no hat, not scarf, no gloves, hair still wet from their shower, and I wonder if I suddenly became the world's biggest vag, or if these guys are just dumb and suffering.

[Fezmid]

What's crazy is that even on these viciously cold mornings I still see these idiots--who are old enough to know better--on their way to work, jacket unzipped, no hat, not scarf, no gloves, hair still wet from their shower, and I wonder if I suddenly became the world's biggest vag, or if these guys are just dumb and suffering.

Hmmm, that's me.... But I have an attached garage and when I get to work, I walk about 30 feet from my car to the front door... So it's not that big a deal.