How are we EVER supposed to compete

[KOKBILLS]

It happens. Does it happen every time you want it to? Does it happen without getting bent over on the deal? Sure, there's always a way. You can screw yourself on value.

 

PTR

 

Right because that's what I meant...We should Trade down and not get equal value in return...Even though I was simply responding to a Post that said it's never done anymore so forget about it...And The Bills have not screwed themselves by staying put and always Drafting the wrong guy?

 

Thanks for pointing out the obvious PTR...I had no idea there was value to be concerned with...

[Koufax]

Not so easy to trade down nowadays, those days are over. We just need to draft better, As we all know all of our #1 draft picks have been HUGE busts except for, Woods, Levitre, and maybe whitner,.. We need solids drafts, Thats why the Pats are good,and we are not.

 

That's the key. I don't think the Pats beat us at the draft because they have more picks (although the OP opens your eyes for this year). They just draft better.

[BillsVet]

Can't argue with you.

 

Parcells is a football guru who would have it no other way than complete control.

 

Nix is a scout that is taking a shot at GM.

 

It's never happened before in Buffalo (save for perhaps the Polian years), but give football people complete autonomy over football decisions. Sure, the bean counters will set a budget, but I've never felt the football people weren't frequently interfered with by RW and his minions.

 

question to the Parcells guys:

 

When Parcells jumps from one team to another does he bring his entourage of cool scouts with him? Was the entire Miami scout department fired when they hired Parceslls?

 

AFAIK, Parcells took his own people to Miami in 2008. Most of them remain there, but I think BP goes mercenary again and ends up in other town performing a role like he did in Miami.

Edited December 9, 2010 by BillsVet

[DanInUticaTampa]

Actually it's his 6th year. But, he's playing his best ever and it's not because he's improving, it's because of the coaching? Really? Chan's coaching sure didn't help Trent any? Why not?

 

To say he's not improving is just silly.

 

In 2005 he threw 4 TDs and 8 Ints with a 58.2 rating

In 2006 and 2007 he didn't play in any games.

In 2008 with the Bungles he threw 8 TDs and 9 Ints with a 70.0 rating

In 2009 with the Bills he threw 9 Tds and 10 Ints with a 69.7 rating

In 2010 so far with the Bils he threw 20 TDs and 11 Ints with a 84.5 rating

 

As far as QBs getting good after 5 years, I suppose you forgot about Steve Young and Matt Hasselback and Eli Manning and Rich Gannon. Super Bowl QBs who didn't start out setting the world on fire but improved greatly after that.

 

If you just want Luck or Mallet or Newton or whoever just because you think it would be cool, just say so. Don't make stuff like, "Fitz can't improve".

 

I never said "fitz can't improve." I said he probably won't be elite. Chances are, he won't be.

 

And stop putting words in my mouth and learn some reading comprehension. Go to school or pick up a book. I NEVER said take Luck because it is "cool." I said take luck because of his potential.

 

If you are confusing the words "cool" and "potential" you MUST have failed 3 grade levels... or are still in middle school. Learn to read, then get back to me.

[reddogblitz]

I never said "fitz can't improve." I said he probably won't be elite. Chances are, he won't be.

 

And stop putting words in my mouth and learn some reading comprehension. Go to school or pick up a book. I NEVER said take Luck because it is "cool." I said take luck because of his potential.

 

If you are confusing the words "cool" and "potential" you MUST have failed 3 grade levels... or are still in middle school. Learn to read, then get back to me.

maybe you need to learn more about reading pal. Here is what you said in post #99 about Fitz: "The guy has the same talent he has always had, and has grown as far as his instincts go."

 

Sounds to me like he can't improve. Sorry if I misunderstood. I never said you thought drafting Luck would be cool. But you know, chances are just as good that Luck will never be elite either. Chances are he'll never throw 20 TD passes in 10 games in the NFL, like Fitz has.

 

It seems that you think the Bills should keep shuffling young QBs until they find the "elite QB". I don't. Fitz is pretty darn good and after 6 years of trying to "develop" young QBs, I say we call it good. We've got a guy all developed who is performing better than 25 other QBs in the league in regards to TD passes thrown with a horrible offensive line and meager WR talent. Let's build around this guy and make a run for it. That's all I say.

 

We'll just have to agree to disagree I suppose.

[DanInUticaTampa]

maybe you need to learn more about reading pal. Here is what you said in post #99 about Fitz: "The guy has the same talent he has always had, and has grown as far as his instincts go."

 

That is because you don't just become "talented." You are either talented, or you are not. You can improve on strength, conditioning, and skills, but you are not going to improve your actual talent much at all. I have seen Fitz play just as good 6 years ago. Maybe you didn't watch him 6 years ago, but he was just as good then. Yeah, his yearly stats you keep throwing out there don't show that, but maybe that is because 6 years ago that year he only played one game! But look at his stats in his first game! He is like one of 5 QBs to throw over 300 yards his opening game.... he threw like 3-4 TDs in one game... and that was 6 years ago. If you think he is playing better now than back when he was throwing 300 yards, and 3 TDs, then you are just crazy.

 

I NEVER said he couldn't improve. I said he wasn't going to get any more talented. Huge difference. If you can't see the difference, hit the books and dictionary.

 

 

I never said you thought drafting Luck would be cool.

 

You certianly implied it. I SAID Luck had potential, and you looked at that and said "if you think it is just cool to pick luck, mallet, or locker just say so." WTf... I am talking about potential of a young QB prospect, and what you got from that was I think it is just "cool?" Give me a break. I never even mentioned mallet or locker, so I don't know why you even threw their names out there at all.

 

 

But you know, chances are just as good that Luck will never be elite either. Chances are he'll never throw 20 TD passes in 10 games in the NFL, like Fitz has. .

 

No, chances are BETTER for luck. You don't know what he is capeable in the NFL. He is a huge prospect and is looking almost as good as bradford. Luck has way more potential than fitz. Fitz more than likely has reached his peak. Oh no! Does that mean he can't improve?! Of course not. He can obviously improve, like learning how to read defenses, maybe practice his throwing motion. But his talent is going to change, his release isn't going to change, and so on. Yeah, you say "a lot of QBs take time to improve." BS. But their 5th or 6th year, you have a pretty good idea on all QBs. If you think that by their 6th year they didn't know what steve young could do, you are crazy.

 

 

 

It seems that you think the Bills should keep shuffling young QBs until they find the "elite QB". I don't..

 

Yeah, I don't think that at all. I don't know why you kept guessing what I am thinking. I say "potential" and you think I mean "cool," I say fitz has the same talent he always had and you say "can't improve." Then I don't know where you get this stuff from

 

My opinion? I love fitz. I think he is great and probably the best QB we had in awhile. I don't think he is better than brady, big ben, peyton, rodgers, rivers, favre, ryan, bradford, vick, Brees, or any of the other Elite QBs. I would like Fitz to be our QB for the next two years or more while developing a QB who could become an elite QB. Someone with a rare talent that you can't just learn, but you are BORN with it. Someone to groom into a future HOF QB of the future.

 

And personally, if we are going to say the QB position is locked and ready because of one good season, then we are just being dumb. Derrick anderson had 1 good year with the Browns, and look where he is now. I say at least have a back up plan.

 

And if you think he has improved so much over the years, look at his first game his rookie season. The guy threw for like 300 yards, 3-4 TDs, and was the "big story" on espn all week. That game was 6 years ago, and was just as good as he is playing this year. If you want to look at his yearly stats to argue he has improved, you haven't seen this guy play before he became to the bills. The guy proved he always had the talent to make it in the nfl. He didn't just show up to the bills and magically improve.

[Fixxxer]

AFAIK, Parcells took his own people to Miami in 2008. Most of them remain there, but I think BP goes mercenary again and ends up in other town performing a role like he did in Miami.

 

I will try to find out about it with some fin fan in some general board. I know Sparano was the OL or ST coach in Dallas but it would be interesting to see if he was able to bring back some of the dallas scouts with him.

[Bills99999]

The Bills front office needs to start reading The Stadium Wall and do what we tell them to do

 

Who was that guy a few years back who worked a a sports info guy at Millersville University who made 1,000 posts about how we should draft Ryan Leaf?

[b stein 22]

The Bills front office needs to start reading The Stadium Wall and do what we tell them to do

 

Who was that guy a few years back who worked a a sports info guy at Millersville University who made 1,000 posts about how we should draft Ryan Leaf?

Ryan Leaf was drafted in 1998 and I dont think this forum was around then. The oldest members are from 2001 so i would guess not.

[Bills99999]

Ryan Leaf was drafted in 1998 and I dont think this forum was around then. The oldest members are from 2001 so i would guess not.

 

 

The top of this page says TBD was established in 1996

 

Back then the Richester D&C was the most active board until they shut it down

[reddogblitz]

Maybe you didn't watch him 6 years ago, but he was just as good then. Yeah, his yearly stats you keep throwing out there don't show that, but maybe that is because 6 years ago that year he only played one game!

Here we go with the reading thing again.

 

In 2005 with the St. Louis Rams, Fitz started 3 games and played in 4 with 4 TDs amd 9 Ints and a rating of 58.2. Maybe his first game was great, but those other 3 must have been real dogs. Also, I did not watch him 3 years ago, but I did last year. To me anyway, he looks like he's come a long way since then. I think next year he'll only be better if given the chance.

 

Fitz more than likely has reached his peak. Oh no! Does that mean he can't improve?! Of course not. He can obviously improve, like learning how to read defenses, maybe practice his throwing motion.

Kindof got me on this one. He has reached his peak, yet can improve. Maybe it's becuase I can't read, but I always thought when someone was at their peak, they were the best they were ever gonna be.

 

In fact, the World English Dictionary define the peak as:

 

"4. the point of greatest development, strength, etc: the peak of his career"

 

Maybe someone needs to "hit the books and dictionary" before making any more posts.

 

Look, I get where you're coming from. This Luck kid may be the real deal when he comes out whenever that is. Bottom line is no one knows for sure, not even you.

 

As for my thoughts on this, we know what Fitz can do and it's pretty darn good. Good enough for once in the last 7 years to say, this is our guy. We're done "devloping" a starting QB for now. Now, let's go to work and put the right pieces around him (Oline, DLine, LBs, maybe some better WRs) and make a run at this thing. Enough fooling around already. If we wait until we get just the right elite/franchise QB to try to make a run for it, we could all be in a nursing home.

[Pilsner]

In order to compete we need to draft as well as the elite teams, and keep our drafts consistently good. We need to sign quality FA's to plug our holes. Some of these FA's might even turn out to to be gems. Chan has shown us what he can do. He's done quite a job coaching up our O. We're getting better in that department (still need a TE and upgrades on the O-line). We need to upgrade our D with quality draft picks and FA's.

 

Basically we just need to draft well and infuse talent into our team so our coach can keep coaching them up. We will be able to compete as long as Chan is our coach, we start drafting well in this new decade, our D forms into a solid unit, and Nix and Chan are on the same page and tell everyone else to stay out of their business (that includes Ralph). I will have a huge amount of respect for Chix if they put their foot down (perhaps they already have) and tell Ralph that they will build a winner without any meddling and for him to trust them.

 

This thing can be built. I just hope Chan and Nix have the power to pull the strings necessary. Just glad they are on the same page. If Ralph does happen to pass soon, hopefully Chan and Nix stay on. Whaley better be starting to carry more of that torch. We need a solid young GM in the making to carry us forward for the long term.

 

-sets up barbed wire fence to keep some of you wishywashy fools from getting too close to the ledge-

Edited December 9, 2010 by Pilsner

[8-8 Forever?]

In order to compete we need to draft as well as the elite teams, and keep our drafts consistently good. We need to sign quality FA's to plug our holes. Some of these FA's might even turn out to to be gems. Chan has shown us what he can do. He's done quite a job coaching up our O. We're getting better in that department (still need a TE and upgrades on the O-line). We need to upgrade our D with quality draft picks and FA's.

 

Basically we just need to draft well and infuse talent into our team so our coach can keep coaching them up. We will be able to compete as long as Chan is our coach, we start drafting well in this new decade, our D forms into a solid unit, and Nix and Chan are on the same page and tell everyone else to stay out of their business (that includes Ralph). I will have a huge amount of respect for Chix if they put their foot down (perhaps they already have) and tell Ralph that they will build a winner without any meddling and for him to trust them.

 

This thing can be built. I just hope Chan and Nix have the power to pull the strings necessary. Just glad they are on the same page. If Ralph does happen to pass soon, hopefully Chan and Nix stay on. Whaley better be starting to carry more of that torch. We need a solid young GM in the making to carry us forward for the long term.

 

-sets up barbed wire fence to keep some of you wishywashy fools from getting too close to the ledge-

When the team is sold the buyer will clean house. No one spends $700m on a business without bringing in their own people.

[Jim in Anchorage]

Why do we need to compete with NE? According to my math the Bills could be 14-2 if they never beat them.

Edited December 9, 2010 by Jim in Anchorage

[tennesseeboy]

Why do we need to compete with NE? According to my math the Bills could be 14-2 if they never beat them.

Well...at best we would see them in the playoffs, and then we'd never get to the superbowl. Not that the playoffs are on our present horizon.

[Jim in Anchorage]

Well...at best we would see them in the playoffs, and then we'd never get to the superbowl. Not that the playoffs are on our present horizon.

Just beat the stinking Toledo mud hens in regular season, and go 14-2 on the year and worry about the Pats in the playoffs

 

They got beat by a half ars Giants team in the SB, remember?

[thewildrabbit]

You guys are all smoking crack if you think for a second that Buddy Nix (not the smartest guy in the room... his own words!) along with Tom Modrak will suddenly gain the necessary skills to properly evaluate talent, in free agency or the draft, and bring great talent to Buffalo. Considering Nix went into last years draft with the O line as a priority and came away with a 5th and 7th rounder, then brought in Cornell Green as a 3 mill dollar free agent.

 

The owner hired a man to be the GM in Nix who clearly has no skills for that position, and looks to be another lame excuse for a GM in the Marv Levy mold. As good as Chan Gailey has done in developing Fitz into a decent QB, it makes me wonder how long he will keep his job and be able to win games with a staff of bozo's in the front office pulling the strings.

[aristocrat]

this team needs athletes and a bunch of them. what if we were to trade down? we trade back twice...1st to right around 10-13 picking up an extra 2nd and then to the end of the 1st also picking up an extra 2nd. we then have a 1st, 3 2nds, 3rd, and two 4th rounders. we could probably snag an extra 3 in the trade down as well giving us 8 picks in the 1st 4 rounds and 11 picks overall. then we draft smart and get guys who are not projects. look at the pats draft last year...mccourty, spikes, cunningham, gronkowski all in the 1st two rounds and all are starting. the pats defense is young and the pats have multiple draft picks in 2011 so if they pull off another draft like this one that team will be unreal for the next decade. the bills should take a look at the pats and follow suit.

[DanInUticaTampa]

Here we go with the reading thing again.

 

In 2005 with the St. Louis Rams, Fitz started 3 games and played in 4 with 4 TDs amd 9 Ints and a rating of 58.2. Maybe his first game was great, but those other 3 must have been real dogs. Also, I did not watch him 3 years ago, but I did last year. To me anyway, he looks like he's come a long way since then. I think next year he'll only be better if given the chance.

 

To me, he hasn't come a long way. The guy has always played a lot of good games, but at the same time he has always played a lot of bad games. That is why looking at the yearly stats like you just are not honest. The biggest difference between this year and last is simple: Coaching. That is the biggest difference on this team, and coaching is what has improved this offense. Unless you believe that roscoe, stevie, the oline, and fitz all decided to learn football at the very same time. The offense as a whole is playing better because of coaching. But if you want, you can say they just grew up and improved on their own.

 

And yeah, edwards sucked in gailey's offense. Maybe it was because edwards was that bad? I mean, even Fitz did better than edwards last year as well. So maybe Fitz is just better than edwards?

 

 

Kindof got me on this one. He has reached his peak, yet can improve. Maybe it's becuase I can't read, but I always thought when someone was at their peak, they were the best they were ever gonna be.

 

In all relevance, he has reached his peak. He can improve, but it wont be much. I don't see this guy becoming better than manning, big ben, brady, brees, favre, rivers, vick, ryan,etc which is my point. He can improve, but he won't be these guys. Of course, there is a VERY small chance that could happen, but I highly doubt it. If you think the odds are he would, then that is good for the optimism. But This guy will still be in the bottom half of the league next year. This is probably going to be buffalo's best and hopefully only chance to get a top QB in the draft. We almost never pick in the top 5 and we might never again in a long time. I see nothing wrong with grabbing a QB and developing him while Fitz runs the team. Hell, I would rather have a young QB learning from fitz rather than grabbing at straws again when he is gone.

 

And then you complain about the defense and the the offensive line.... all that stuff has been getting worked on and will continue to be getting worked on. I don't know why you people who think taking a QB with ONE pick means you are ignoring the trenches. That is just insane. The bills have more than one pick and they have Free agency. The bills obviously care about the trenches. The past two years, they have worked on the trenches more than anything.

 

in 2009 they spent a first round pick AND a second round pick on the o-line. In 2010, the spent a 2nd round AND a third round pick on the defensive line, including additional picks at tackle and LB. And then they signed as FA Davis and Edwards to the front 7. That is like 5 new players to the front 7 plus kyle williams who is a stud.... they basically ignored 1 out of the 6 needs on the front 7, and you say that is bad? in Just one offseason, they got 5 new players for the front 7, and you think that they are ignoring the trenches? It is just crazy. It sucks moats, carrington and troup are not all pros, I know. Too bad kyle williams wasn't an all pro in his first year either. But they are addressing the trenches. They just need to teach the players the positions and continue working on them by adding more talent. I bet there is a better chance they do additional work on the trenches than there is a chance of Fitz repeating another good year. I think he might actually end up taking a few steps back next year, but that is just a hunch rather than anything I really feel.

 

 

I think that it is just crazy that I say I want to develop a QB, and it is like some terrible thing is going to happen to this team because of it. It is really going to suck next year if Fitz pulls a Derrick anderson and just messes up next year.... really, you dont' know if fitz will repeat or get better next year anymore than I know of Luck actually turning into a well worth pick. But there is nothing wrong with developing a young player while having another player play the games.

 

I get that you don't want to draft a QB. I don't get why people (not just you) Think the front office has neglected the trenches when that is the number one thing that has been addressed in the past two offseasons. They have obviously been building the trenches. Most of their draft picks and free agent signs have been for the trenches. They are far from ignoring them

[BLZFAN4LIFE]

- Thought it was appropriate to dust this topic off in light of today's pitiful, pathetic, and embarrassing display of football on our home field. Today's performance highlighted just how inadequate the Bills are as an NFL franchise. This organization is broken from the owner, to the front office, to the coaches, players and right down to the water boy. 11 seasons without a playoff appearance and if you think this crew has us on the right path, just re-watch today's game. It's a terribly sorry state of affairs at OBD and has been a horrendous decade to be a fan of this inferior football team.