How are we EVER supposed to compete

[benderbender]

Games are won with OL and DL. As long as we lose the battle of the trenches, expect 3 win seasons

[billsfreak]

Brady can't play forever....

Two years ago Brady only played a quarter or so of a game all year and they won 12 games. No doubt he is a big piece of the puzzle but he isn't as important as the system and the franchise/ownership.

[larz tex]

Answer is pretty simple. We must draft good players. We could have had Matthews, Orakpo and Mangold. Players we needed. And there are a ton of top talent we let walk, which was a bad idea. 2010 class looks like poop so far, for drafting so high. I have no Idea how we keep screwing it up. We've become Detriot in that sense. If the best player on the board is a Running Back when we go to Draft this year, I'm done with this team.

If the Bills don't overhaul the scouting department we will get more Lossmen, McCargo's McKelvin's, etc. We have had good draft positions the past ten years and what do we have to show for it? Our best players are fifth rounders and udf's. and they can't compete with other teams first and seconds.

[aristocrat]

If the Bills don't overhaul the scouting department we will get more Lossmen, McCargo's McKelvin's, etc. We have had good draft positions the past ten years and what do we have to show for it? Our best players are fifth rounders and udf's. and they can't compete with other teams first and seconds.

 

looking back at the past few drafts...2008 you have mcfadden, gholston, mckelvin not living up to the 1st round pick, 2009 you have andre smith, maybin, heywood bay, and 2010 so far spiller and tebow haven't lived up to the bill but jury is still out on most of them. my point is that year after year the bills just miss on the draft pick despite just about all other teams hitting on starters for their teams. i'm not talking about getting hof's but just solid starters that can be had in the first round with the bills just picking names out of a hat. i just don't understand what the selection process is.

[billsfreak]

looking back at the past few drafts...2008 you have mcfadden, gholston, mckelvin not living up to the 1st round pick, 2009 you have andre smith, maybin, heywood bay, and 2010 so far spiller and tebow haven't lived up to the bill but jury is still out on most of them. my point is that year after year the bills just miss on the draft pick despite just about all other teams hitting on starters for their teams. i'm not talking about getting hof's but just solid starters that can be had in the first round with the bills just picking names out of a hat. i just don't understand what the selection process is.

There are always a bunch of draft picks that bust, and every team is going to have their share. Just seems like the Bills are always going to have more than their share which leads to the front office. As far as Tebow is concerned, you can't really say he hasn't lived up to the bill, as nobody expected him to play much for a year or two, at least.

[robertpaul49]

Here are a couple of my thoughts on the Patriot's rebuilding strategies:

1) They make their high draft picks count.

2) Their high 1st round draft picks are used for the front seven. Their defensive line was all 1st round draft picks.

3) They go for quantity of draft picks in the low first round and second rounds, more chances to get a starter.

4) They do not pay for over-priced free agents. Outside of Brady there aren't too many star players.

5) They let people go relentlessly.

6) They watch the money, more evenly spread across the team.

 

What this means for the Bills:

1) The Bills should probably be trading down and acquiring draft picks.

2) More analytical and less emotion based drafting. Maybin was not an analytical decision, and I doubt Spiller was either.

(I am of the opinion that Spiller will be good, and the Bills are not worried about winning this year as much as building a team, determining what they have, etc.)

3) They should continue their strategy with free agency. Keep getting players from the Ravens.

4) This off season should focus on the offensive line and linebackers.

5) Let's see if Fitz is the guy next year. If not, then trade up to get a quarterback, ala the Giants and Jets.

[st. pete gogolak]

As long as Ralph Wilson owns the Bills and Bill Belichick coachs the Pats, they won't compete. Ever. As a Bills fan since 1965, that's an incredibly painful statement to write but it's true. As much as I hate the Pats, they are light-years ahead of every other franchise in the league. Just a couple of examples. Look at the drafts for the entire league over the last 20 - 30 years. What jumps out? First, it is absolutely astounding how many first round picks bust. Not just for the Bills but for every team in the league. Second, contrary to the myth of the low round Pro Bowlers, very few picks after round 4 pan out at all. So what do the Pats do as a matter of routine? Trade out of round one and stockpile picks in rounds 2, 3 and 4. They bust on a lot of picks, just like everyone else, but stockpiling picks in rounds 2, 3 and 4 gives them more hits than just about anyone else.

 

Belicheck recognized the increasing importance of the tight end in the modern NFL and has used #1's (Graham and Watson) to upgrade the position. This year he hit on two terrific rookies with high draft picks (Gronowski and Hernandez). If Hernandez was picked by the Bills, he would already be in the running for the franchise's all-time tight end.

 

The Pats are the most ruthless franchise in NFL history. They trade veterans for maximum value (#1's for Bledsoe, Branch, Seymour, #2 for Cassell !!, #3 for Moss) and get great veterans for minimum value (#2 for Dillon, #4 for Moss). I can envision a trade of Brady in a couple of years for 3 no. 1's - probably to the Bills.

 

In my mind, Belichick is easily the greatest head coach of all-time. This year he is GM, OC, DC and HC and the team is 10-2. He is, to me, the Bills' single greatest "villian" of all time. We win Super Bowl XXV if not for Belichick. He destroyed Flutie's run as Jets' DC. And of course, the last 10 years of pure humiliation.

 

Man, this is getting way too pesimisstic. Somebody out there give me some reason for optimism.

[aristocrat]

There are always a bunch of draft picks that bust, and every team is going to have their share. Just seems like the Bills are always going to have more than their share which leads to the front office. As far as Tebow is concerned, you can't really say he hasn't lived up to the bill, as nobody expected him to play much for a year or two, at least.

 

i know tebow is a project and to call him a bust right now is unfair but my point is that when you draft in the first round you expect results immediately. taking a look at the last five drafts you are far far more likely to hit on a 1st rounder than miss but the bills just keep missing. the past two drafts we pick guys that may take a couple years to develop into nfl players in the first round when the fact remains that we could have had two legit starters on our team. i think from a rebuilding point of view the bills should move down into the 20's and pick up an extra 2nd and 3rd and get 3 guys from the first 60 and five from the first 90. it would go a long way to helping this team.

[BobDVA]

I have a friend that does relief work in Haiti, I am going to see if he can pick us up one of those voodoo dolls. Maybe a couple, a Brady, and a Belichick.

 

Watch us compete now!

 

I also have a friend in the U.S. Air Force. I will see if he can do a little fly by at Patriot* practices with a Predator drone.

 

See, not so hopeless, we can and we will compete!

[Bob in STL]

Don't look at what the patriots are doing today. When you're on top you can play the game the way they do. Look at how they went from 2-14 to winners. It's not about one player, it's about building a winning TEAM. What did they and other winners do when they were losing to stop the losing?

 

The BILLS minus Fitz plus Luck do not equal the Pats* + Brady!

 

I know we all want to win RIGHT NOW, but losers lose because they think the difference between winners and losers is one God-given-miraculous-puzzle-piece. There are many differences, some a lot less obvious than others, AND it's usually those less noticeable, but quality pieces that make teams champions.

 

 

When the Patriots went from 2-14 losers to winners it took a few years but they did it this way:

 

1. Bring in Parcells and improve the front office, the scouting, and the coaching.

 

2. Draft better players - concentrate on with the trenches

 

3. Change attitude from losing to winning

 

4. Parcells leaves - Bring in Bellichek - they actually traded a #1 draft pick to the Jets for him

 

5. continue smart drafting - luck out with Brady in round 6.

 

6. The year the cheated the Rams out of a Super Bowl they brought in lots of low priced, experienced, veteran free agents, many of which had gas in the tank to fill holes.

 

7. Continue to rely on the draft and stockpile picks - trade or release players that don't fit in, or they are unwilling to pay big dollars for

[BillsVet]

When the Patriots went from 2-14 losers to winners it took a few years but they did it this way:

 

1. Bring in Parcells and improve the front office, the scouting, and the coaching.

 

There really hasn't been a true sea change like there should have been last offseason. Modrak may or may not have sway, but he's survived through the tenures of 4 GM's. Jim Overdorf is there, as he has been since the 80s. The power structure was barely addressed and all of this begs the question: why? Why doesn't a new GM get to bring in their own people? Every other team, upon hiring a new GM, typically finds new pro and amateur scouting directors, and doesn't have an Overdorf type pulling strings from behind the curtain.

 

Say what you want about Nix and this being early, but merely firing the poor VP of Pro Personnel is not sufficient. With the track record of failure in the front office, more comprehensive changes were needed. And they didn't/couldn't do it because RW didn't authorize it.

[Bob in STL]

There really hasn't been a true sea change like there should have been last offseason. Modrak may or may not have sway, but he's survived through the tenures of 4 GM's. Jim Overdorf is there, as he has been since the 80s. The power structure was barely addressed and all of this begs the question: why? Why doesn't a new GM get to bring in their own people? Every other team, upon hiring a new GM, typically finds new pro and amateur scouting directors, and doesn't have an Overdorf type pulling strings from behind the curtain.

 

Say what you want about Nix and this being early, but merely firing the poor VP of Pro Personnel is not sufficient. With the track record of failure in the front office, more comprehensive changes were needed. And they didn't/couldn't do it because RW didn't authorize it.

 

 

Can't argue with you.

 

Parcells is a football guru who would have it no other way than complete control.

 

Nix is a scout that is taking a shot at GM.

[Austin_Bills_Fan]

And why does this topic have ANYTHING to do with WHERE you pick the QB. The point is that if there seems to be a can't miss QB prospect like Luck, it could turn your franchise around instantly.

 

But more than likely it will do nothing for the franchise without the bigger problems being addressed first (i.e. both trenches). Forget Luck or any other QB. We have Fitz. This spring we need to draft the best line talent on the board and sign a gamechanger LB or two..

[billsfreak]

i know tebow is a project and to call him a bust right now is unfair but my point is that when you draft in the first round you expect results immediately. taking a look at the last five drafts you are far far more likely to hit on a 1st rounder than miss but the bills just keep missing. the past two drafts we pick guys that may take a couple years to develop into nfl players in the first round when the fact remains that we could have had two legit starters on our team. i think from a rebuilding point of view the bills should move down into the 20's and pick up an extra 2nd and 3rd and get 3 guys from the first 60 and five from the first 90. it would go a long way to helping this team.

I don't disagree with anything you said, except the QB position may be the only exception where you don't expect results right away. Many times a rookie QB (Carson Palmer for one), won't play much at all his rookie year but sit behind a vet to learn. Just about any other position though, especially in the first half of the first round should produce immediately. It is not question, the Bills have screwed up more first round picks than one cares to remember, that is just a small part of the many, many problems this team/organization has.

[thewildrabbit]

Two years ago Brady only played a quarter or so of a game all year and they won 12 games. No doubt he is a big piece of the puzzle but he isn't as important as the system and the franchise/ownership.

Most of the posters here have Tom Brady on the brain and seem to forget that the Patriots beat the Bills with a QB that hadn't started a game since HIGH SCHOOL in Matt Cassell!

 

The difference between the Buffalo Bills and New England Patriots isn't the QB....the difference between the franchises is not just the QB, or the head coach, or the players, or the front office personnel. Look at Scott Pioli, the ex GM of the Patriots, who is now GM of the KC Chiefs, a team that currently leads the AFC West at 8-4 and were 2-14 as little as two years ago. Look at Thomas Dimitroff, the ex director of player personnel for the Patriots who is now the GM of the Atlanta Falcons, the Falcons are currently 10-2.

 

The Patriots lose their super bowl winning OC and DC Charlie Weiss and Romeo Crennell, then again lose their OC Josh McDaniel's who helped Tom Brady set a scoring record, and take the team to an almost undefeated season, they lose their Director of player personnel in Dimitroff, and GM in Pioli and that franchise just keeps rolling along and re-booting year after year.

 

The Buffalo Bills have Ralph Wilson and the Patriots have Robert Kraft., one owner is committed to filling the stadium seats, the other is committed to winning games ....the latter understands that if you build a winner, every seat in the stadium will be filled

 

Ralph Wilson is an owner who was just plain lucky to find and hire Bill Polian, probably the best GM the NFL has seen in the past 30 years... Wilson had John Butler as GM along with A.J. Smith, he fired John Butler who went to San Diego to build that team into a winner.A.J.Smith is now the GM of the Chargers. Wilson hired Chuck Knox, a man who took a team so bad that they couldn't play home pre season games in Buffalo because the fans refused to attend the games, built a winning team in Buffalo and took the team to the playoffs despite having a bad GM in Stew Barber. The fans were buying tickets again so Wilson let Knox leave for Seattle. Ralph Wilson proved he knows who to hire to get the job done when he hired Chuck Knox, but when he let him go he also proved he isn't committed to keeping a winning team in Buffalo.

 

To answer the OP question.... as long as Ralph Wilson owns the Buffalo Bills...never

[Fixxxer]

question to the Parcells guys:

 

When Parcells jumps from one team to another does he bring his entourage of cool scouts with him? Was the entire Miami scout department fired when they hired Parceslls?

[KOKBILLS]

Not so easy to trade down nowadays, those days are over.

 

Since when? It's always possible...Cleveland got a 1st and a 2nd to Trade down from #5 in 2009...Miami got a 1st, 2nd, and a 4th last year to Trade WAY down with SD from #12...Where there is a will there is a way...The Bills simply don't have the will, or the brains for that matter to turn the Draft in their favor...They'll stay put and do something stupid again...Mark it down!

[aristocrat]

Since when? It's always possible...Cleveland got a 1st and a 2nd to Trade down from #5 in 2009...Miami got a 1st, 2nd, and a 4th last year to Trade WAY down with SD from #12...Where there is a will there is a way...The Bills simply don't have the will, or the brains for that matter to turn the Draft in their favor...They'll stay put and do something stupid again...Mark it down!

 

so we have a top 5 pick in the next draft and we have the ability to trade down and get 5 picks in the first 3 rounds...another team comes to mind that also has 6 picks in the first 3 rounds...oh its the pats.

Edited December 8, 2010 by aristocrat

[Da Big Man]

Games are won with OL and DL. As long as we lose the battle of the trenches, expect 3 win seasons

The Pats have one of the worst D's in the NFL. What is even more troubling about the Pats is that they get the most out of undrafted players as well. We can't even find quality high first round players. I never discount the misfortune that lurks over this city and the teams in both NFL and NHL.

Edited December 8, 2010 by Da Big Man

[PromoTheRobot]

Since when? It's always possible...Cleveland got a 1st and a 2nd to Trade down from #5 in 2009...Miami got a 1st, 2nd, and a 4th last year to Trade WAY down with SD from #12...Where there is a will there is a way...The Bills simply don't have the will, or the brains for that matter to turn the Draft in their favor...They'll stay put and do something stupid again...Mark it down!

It happens. Does it happen every time you want it to? Does it happen without getting bent over on the deal? Sure, there's always a way. You can screw yourself on value.

 

PTR

Edited December 8, 2010 by PromoTheRobot