How are we EVER supposed to compete

[drinkTHEkoolaid]

Brady can't play forever....

[boyst]

Brady can't play forever....

Not to jump in to this thread all late but I am worried that somehow Brady stays there to coach or work the organization so every time we face them we have to see that lil sissy girl homo, and that is no offense to homos.

[bobobonators]

Coming off of the bye the Bills played a few good teams close and then actually won two in a row. Just when the old passion and enthusiasm for the team began to emerge, the wheels fell off in Minny. Then I see the Patriots roll the Jets like they were a D-2 squad. Leading me to ask how are we ever going to compete with the Pats?

Excuse me for not researching it, but off of the top of my head I believe they have beaten us 14 straight times and 19 of the last 20. New England also has 2 picks in each of the first 4 rounds of the draft.

The Patriots have their own picks plus these:

• First-rounder from Oakland Raiders (for Richard Seymour).
• Second-rounder from Carolina Panthers (from trade at this year's draft).
• Third-rounder from the Minnesota Vikings (for Randy Moss and seventh-round pick).
• Fourth-rounder from the Denver Broncos (for Laurence Maroney and sixth-round pick).

The second rounder from Carolina is likely to be the #33 pick, which isn't too shabby. They will use some picks and wisely trade some away and secure additional picks for the future. They have a young D which will only improve over time and look like a firmly entrenched dynasty. Bills fans on the other hand, are relegated to feeling good about moral victories and wins against two-win teams.

 

We contend with the Patriots when Brady retires in 5 years.

[marauderswr80]

I'm to the point where I don't honestly care anymore....

 

as a franchise we are light years away from being better then the patriots.

[Buffalonian-at-Heart]

Um, because Brady was drafted in the first round with the #1 pick?

 

I am so sick of this weak argument.

 

I'm to the point where I don't honestly care anymore....

 

as a franchise we are light years away from being better then the patriots.

 

Hilarious coming from someone who has posted almost 3000 times on a Bills site and averages 2 per day. "I don't care anymore", hahahahahaha.

Edited December 8, 2010 by Buffalonian-at-Heart

[robertpaul49]

I think it comes with Belichick more than Kraft. I was watching the Parcels biography and some of his comments about Kraft. I think the one thing anybody can say about Kraft is that he wants to win, and he is willing to hire people to do it.

 

The way to beat the Patriots is to build a team like San Diego. The Patriots are good because they have a good team. It is not all about Brady. They have done it by bringing in quantity. They need a tight end so they sign one and draft two.

 

The Bills could trade down if they wanted to. They just haven't wanted to. The Bills have a lot of needs, but they need more bodies. The Patriots like to get players in the second round. A loser would try to get one player star player to turn around a team. Unfortunately, the rest of the team stinks. The Patriots try to find as many quality players as posible.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

Not too too tough to figure it out....

 

BRADY

 

FITZ

 

Maybe now people will try and understand why many fans want Luck so badly......

 

So that the Patriots can draft another 6th round QB like Brady, who is better than our 1st rounder, while continuing to build their lines on both sides of the ball with quality top picks (not to mention the TE)

 

I think we should hire the Pats scouting department.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

As long as the Pats have Brady and the Bills roll out a back-up QB you will NEVER see the Bills compete with New England. In the NFL it all comes down to who has the franchise QB. Until the Bills get one, whether that be Luck or someone else, they won't be able to compete consistently enough to matter.

 

Huh. The year Brady got hurt in the 1st game and Cassel took over (7th round draft choice in 2005), what was the Patriots record?

11-5 or something like that? Won the division?

 

In other words, the Patriots can roll out a back-up 7th rounder, finish 11-5, and win the division

The difference is the Bills need "Magical Franchise Quarterback" then all will be well.

 

Huh. Howizzit again?

[marsadale]

Now we know what it is like to feel like the Patriots and Jets during the Bills' glory days. For about a decade, the Bills just walked over those teams. Now it's payback.

 

Our best hope is that Tom Brady decides to retire early to pursue a modeling career.

do you find him....attractive?

[coldstorage5]

You may call me crazy, but no, I don't understand. I honnestly think that Brady and Fitz are quite the same type of guys. The "only" differences between them are the OL, TE and bilicheat

Dude your smokin something..

[marsadale]

That's just a copout. How major league is Pittsburgh and Indianapolis? By your rationale, Dallas couldn't possibly have gone over a decade without winning a playoff game.

 

The easy answer as to why NE is consistently at the top is simple: Bill Belichick.

 

Sure, good ownership is important, but only to the point of not interfering or being overly stingy.

 

It's not Brady, even though he is a top QB. I think the Matt Cassel experiment proved it. No, they didn't make the playoffs, but they won 11 games with an average-at-best QB (and no, it wasn't because of their defense).

 

Belichick handles the coaching and personnel duties on the team. Even when Pioli et al were with them, I remember reading that Belichick was the guy behind everything.

 

This might sound outrageous, but I'd trade our whole roster for Belichick, give him whatever money he wanted, and let him build the roster from scratch. I'd be willing to bet that by year 3 we'd be better off than we are now.

I'd rather lose.

[billsfan89]

The last two drafts have been excellent for the Patriots and look to be starting to pay huge dividends but, you are right, the draft classes previous to them have been less than impressive. However, the 08 and 07 drafts were largely poor throughout the league so I'm not sure it's fair to single the Pats out.

 

And don't forget the Pats traded two of their 07 picks for Moss and Welker so if you include them then one could argue that their 07 draft was about as good as it gets.

 

In 2008 they hit on Mayo but 2nd rounder Terrance Wheatley is a bust, and 2nd rounder Shawn Crable is a bust. So out of their 1st 3 picks in the 1st 3 rounds 2 are not with the team anymore.

 

In 2009 Patrick Chung has had mixed results but looks promising although jury still out But 2nd rounders Ron Brace and Darious Butler aren't looking promising as Brace hardly plays and Butler doesn't play at all anymore. Vollmer played well for a rookie last year but hasn't seen much time this season.

 

So out of 4 second round picks the Pats* are looking pretty mediocre 2 are looking more like busts and the other two while looking good are still a mixed bag as Chung could still bomb and Vollmer isn't playing. Not a bad drafting record but not a great one either.

 

So out of the 2008 and 2009 NFL drafts with 6 2nd round picks and 1 1st round pick they have busted on 2 picks (Wheatley and Crable), are looking bad on another 2 (Brace and Butler), and are looking good on another 2 (Chung and Vollmer) and their 1st rounder was a boom in Mayo. To me that's not grade A material.

 

Now don't get me wrong the 2010 Draft is looking excellent for the Pats* as Gronkowski and Hernandez are contributing to the offense and McCourty is a starter on defense while Cunningham and Spikes are playing OK for the D as well.

 

All in all Belicheat is more then capable of misses as his 2007-2009 drafts have shown. So I don't think that the Pats* having a lot of picks means they will build another dynasty as they do have to hit on those picks.

 

But for all the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd rounders they sunk into the D for them to be ranked last or next to last is telling as only Mayo has emerged as a sure fire star for them on that side of the ball.

[Pneumonic]

In 2008 they hit on Mayo but 2nd rounder Terrance Wheatley is a bust, and 2nd rounder Shawn Crable is a bust. So out of their 1st 3 picks in the 1st 3 rounds 2 are not with the team anymore.

 

In 2009 Patrick Chung has had mixed results but looks promising although jury still out But 2nd rounders Ron Brace and Darious Butler aren't looking promising as Brace hardly plays and Butler doesn't play at all anymore. Vollmer played well for a rookie last year but hasn't seen much time this season.

 

So out of 4 second round picks the Pats* are looking pretty mediocre 2 are looking more like busts and the other two while looking good are still a mixed bag as Chung could still bomb and Vollmer isn't playing. Not a bad drafting record but not a great one either.

 

So out of the 2008 and 2009 NFL drafts with 6 2nd round picks and 1 1st round pick they have busted on 2 picks (Wheatley and Crable), are looking bad on another 2 (Brace and Butler), and are looking good on another 2 (Chung and Vollmer) and their 1st rounder was a boom in Mayo. To me that's not grade A material.

 

Now don't get me wrong the 2010 Draft is looking excellent for the Pats* as Gronkowski and Hernandez are contributing to the offense and McCourty is a starter on defense while Cunningham and Spikes are playing OK for the D as well.

 

All in all Belicheat is more then capable of misses as his 2007-2009 drafts have shown. So I don't think that the Pats* having a lot of picks means they will build another dynasty as they do have to hit on those picks.

 

But for all the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd rounders they sunk into the D for them to be ranked last or next to last is telling as only Mayo has emerged as a sure fire star for them on that side of the ball.

Tough to be critical of the Pats D as it's chalk full of rookie and 2nd year starters who are just now getting the hang of things. Oftentimes they play like the youngest defense in the league that they are but, recently, they have been starting to jell.

 

As I said the 08 draft was a dud but not just for the Pats, for all teams in general. That was just a bad draft.

 

07 might have been better had they not relinquished a 2nd and 4th for Welker and Moss.

 

09 class is starting to bear fruit. Chung was the starter and playing lights out until he got hurt. He's slowly getting back. Brace disappointed his first season but he's seeing starting reps in the Pats DL rotation this season along with Pryor. Butler's not been much more than a backup but has played better the last several games in the nickel sot where he's better suited. Vollmer has been a stud since day 1 and is the starting RT and a future pro bowler. Tate redshirted his first pro season recovering from a blown out knee but he's been a very dynamic player this season who is the teams 3rd wideout and a top kickoff return guy in the league. And Edelman just can't get out onto the field because he's got Welker, Branch, Tate, Gronkowski and Hernandez ahead of him in the pecking order but he's proven to be a very solid 4th receiver and a starting punt returner for them. That's 7 picks who are all contributing to the Pats winning ways.

 

Granted none of these classes compare to the '10 class but that class might well end up being something truly special.

 

The last two Pats drafts have produced 14 guys who have started this season for the 10-2 Pats.

[billsfan89]

Tough to be critical of the Pats D as it's chalk full of rookie and 2nd year starters who are just now getting the hang of things. Oftentimes they play like the youngest defense in the league that they are but, recently, they have been starting to jell.

 

As I said the 08 draft was a dud but not just for the Pats, for all teams in general. That was just a bad draft.

 

07 might have been better had they not relinquished a 2nd and 4th for Welker and Moss.

 

09 class is starting to bear fruit. Chung was the starter and playing lights out until he got hurt. He's slowly getting back. Brace disappointed his first season but he's seeing starting reps in the Pats DL rotation this season along with Pryor. Butler's not been much more than a backup but has played better the last several games in the nickel sot where he's better suited. Vollmer has been a stud since day 1 and is the starting RT and a future pro bowler. Tate redshirted his first pro season recovering from a blown out knee but he's been a very dynamic player this season who is the teams 3rd wideout and a top kickoff return guy in the league. And Edelman just can't get out onto the field because he's got Welker, Branch, Tate, Gronkowski and Hernandez ahead of him in the pecking order but he's proven to be a very solid 4th receiver and a starting punt returner for them. That's 7 picks who are all contributing to the Pats winning ways.

 

Granted none of these classes compare to the '10 class but that class might well end up being something truly special.

 

The last two Pats drafts have produced 14 guys who have started this season for the 10-2 Pats.

 

Brace and Butler are looking more so like busts. And the Pats* D is young but not everyone is excelling in it. Chung has gotten burnt at times and is hurt. Spikes and Cunningham from the 10 class haven't show to be studs just yet so the jury is still out on them.

 

All in all the Pats* are far form perfect in the draft especially in recent years. They aren't bad by any stretch but I look at the defenders they have drafted and taking into account how high they have drafted these players it looks like they haven't been phenomenal with drafting up their D.

 

They have done a good job drafting offense but how much better do those picks look due to playing with Tom Brady? Tate, Hernandez, and Gronkowski might just be more so products of playing with a great QB after all Branch never light it up in Seattle playing with Hasselbeck.

 

Is it just easier to draft players to play with Brady? I am merely pointing out that the Pats* picks are only as good as what they do with them and that they have had stinkers in the past 07, and 08 were far from good drafts and 09 was above average but not great. And while the 2010 draft is looking aces if Spikes and Cunningham don't develop then while that draft is a good draft (Gronkowski, Hernandez, and McCourty is quite a haul) its not a great one.

[BillsVet]

I think it comes with Belichick more than Kraft. I was watching the Parcels biography and some of his comments about Kraft. I think the one thing anybody can say about Kraft is that he wants to win, and he is willing to hire people to do it.

 

The way to beat the Patriots is to build a team like San Diego. The Patriots are good because they have a good team. It is not all about Brady. They have done it by bringing in quantity. They need a tight end so they sign one and draft two.

 

The Bills could trade down if they wanted to. They just haven't wanted to. The Bills have a lot of needs, but they need more bodies. The Patriots like to get players in the second round. A loser would try to get one player star player to turn around a team. Unfortunately, the rest of the team stinks. The Patriots try to find as many quality players as posible.

 

SD hits on high picks and they hit on mid round guys like Shaun Phillips. They get contributions from all over the place, most notably their 1st round QB and former UDFA TE. Still, the Chargers rebuild took a full four off-seasons and 3 regular seasons. I don't think most fans have the patience in Buffalo to wait that long before the team is good. Who knows what will happen by 2013 with the lease expiring.

 

The point is that Buffalo as a small market team needs to find 3-4 bonafide NFL starters every year. From 2006-2009, it appears they've got K. Williams and Levitre who I think are good players. And then there's Whitner, Posluszny, Wood, and Byrd in the average category. That's just not going to cut it, especially when you play those Pats 2 times per.

[Repulsif]

I could not disagree more. Brady and Fitz are barely in the same league. The QB makes the line, the line doesn't make the QB. Brady's been sacked one more time than Fitz while playing 2 more games than him so that's pretty comparable. The Pats defense is ranked 2nd worse in the league. I don't think the Pats skilled players are that much superior to the Bills. And yet the Pats are 10-2 and the Bills are 2-10. Why? Simply put the Pats have a franchise QB and the Bills don't. Period.

 

Are you on drugs? Please seek help.

 

i confirm in my opinion that Fitz-Brady are the same type of guys (quick release/quick vision) as manning/warner are the same type of guys (quick release/cannon arm) as Vick/McNabb are another type of guys (scramblers/cannon arm)

its not that difficult to understand... isn't it ?

 

please try to imagine to reverse the situation, aka, fitz playing for the pats and brady playing dor the bills.

do you honnestly think the bills would be 10-2 and the pats 2-10 ? may be 4 wins for the bills and 9 for the pats ? for the record matt cassel went 11-5.

 

It all have to do with front 7, playcalls, and from time to time fitz innaccuracy (yes).

 

As for the Luck case, he may turns out as the next manning, or he mays turns as the next leaf ; this is a big jeopardy and i think that the qb we have right now can send the bills in a superbowl win (considering the big upgrade in OL and defense and we should focus on these areas).

[aristocrat]

I think it comes with Belichick more than Kraft. I was watching the Parcels biography and some of his comments about Kraft. I think the one thing anybody can say about Kraft is that he wants to win, and he is willing to hire people to do it.

 

The way to beat the Patriots is to build a team like San Diego. The Patriots are good because they have a good team. It is not all about Brady. They have done it by bringing in quantity. They need a tight end so they sign one and draft two.

 

The Bills could trade down if they wanted to. They just haven't wanted to. The Bills have a lot of needs, but they need more bodies. The Patriots like to get players in the second round. A loser would try to get one player star player to turn around a team. Unfortunately, the rest of the team stinks. The Patriots try to find as many quality players as posible.

 

i have been known to say the bills should take luck if he's there but what if we trade down like cleveland did last year with the jets and got the jets 1st and 2nd. from there could you imagine if we had 3 picks in the first two rounds and had three prospects like wood, byrd and levitre only at rt, lb, and say another lb? that draft would be a great success and go a long way to future success. we would then be in a much better position to move up the following year to get our qb of the future.

[BuffaloWest]

Coming off of the bye the Bills played a few good teams close and then actually won two in a row. Just when the old passion and enthusiasm for the team began to emerge, the wheels fell off in Minny. Then I see the Patriots roll the Jets like they were a D-2 squad. Leading me to ask how are we ever going to compete with the Pats?

Excuse me for not researching it, but off of the top of my head I believe they have beaten us 14 straight times and 19 of the last 20. New England also has 2 picks in each of the first 4 rounds of the draft.

The Patriots have their own picks plus these:

• First-rounder from Oakland Raiders (for Richard Seymour).
• Second-rounder from Carolina Panthers (from trade at this year's draft).
• Third-rounder from the Minnesota Vikings (for Randy Moss and seventh-round pick).
• Fourth-rounder from the Denver Broncos (for Laurence Maroney and sixth-round pick).

The second rounder from Carolina is likely to be the #33 pick, which isn't too shabby. They will use some picks and wisely trade some away and secure additional picks for the future. They have a young D which will only improve over time and look like a firmly entrenched dynasty. Bills fans on the other hand, are relegated to feeling good about moral victories and wins against two-win teams.

 

The NY Giants had the blueprint for beating the Patriots in the Superbowl...You absolutely have to pressure

and attack Tom Brady. Detroit had Brady running for his life on Thanksgiving in the first quarter, then they turned it over and the Pats jumped all over them and ran away with it. You need to attack Brady and you absolutely cannot turn the ball over. Buffalo needs to build a big , mean nasty defense that attacks the QB. This is a passing league. Our secondary would get a lot of picks (equaling points) if the defense could effectively rush the passer. Bills need to go all out on defense this off season via draft and free agency.

[reddogblitz]

Because he has been in the league for what, 5 years now? And it is obvious why he has improved this year from last year: Coaching. But you are acting like this is the first time Fitz has actually played well. Did you not watch this guy at all before he became a bill? When he filled in for the rams due to injury his rookie season, all espn could talk about all week was "MAN! This harvard QB is pretty damn good!" and that was like 5 years ago. The guy is good, but if he had the talent to become an elite QB, he would have shown it by now. The guy has the same talent he has always had, and has grown as far as his instincts go. But his talent isn't going to be elite. QBs don't just become talented overnight after being ok for 5 years. Unless you are michael vick who wastes his life away, then decides to use his talent after sitting in prison.

 

But yeah, aren't these the years that a QB should be in their prime to begin with? Unless what I am saying is against the norm, I don't know why you are shocked by what I said.

Actually it's his 6th year. But, he's playing his best ever and it's not because he's improving, it's because of the coaching? Really? Chan's coaching sure didn't help Trent any? Why not?

 

To say he's not improving is just silly.

 

In 2005 he threw 4 TDs and 8 Ints with a 58.2 rating

In 2006 and 2007 he didn't play in any games.

In 2008 with the Bungles he threw 8 TDs and 9 Ints with a 70.0 rating

In 2009 with the Bills he threw 9 Tds and 10 Ints with a 69.7 rating

In 2010 so far with the Bils he threw 20 TDs and 11 Ints with a 84.5 rating

 

As far as QBs getting good after 5 years, I suppose you forgot about Steve Young and Matt Hasselback and Eli Manning and Rich Gannon. Super Bowl QBs who didn't start out setting the world on fire but improved greatly after that.

 

If you just want Luck or Mallet or Newton or whoever just because you think it would be cool, just say so. Don't make stuff like, "Fitz can't improve".

[8-8 Forever?]

That's just a copout. How major league is Pittsburgh and Indianapolis? By your rationale, Dallas couldn't possibly have gone over a decade without winning a playoff game.

 

The easy answer as to why NE is consistently at the top is simple: Bill Belichick.

 

Sure, good ownership is important, but only to the point of not interfering or being overly stingy.

 

It's not Brady, even though he is a top QB. I think the Matt Cassel experiment proved it. No, they didn't make the playoffs, but they won 11 games with an average-at-best QB (and no, it wasn't because of their defense).

 

Belichick handles the coaching and personnel duties on the team. Even when Pioli et al were with them, I remember reading that Belichick was the guy behind everything.

 

This might sound outrageous, but I'd trade our whole roster for Belichick, give him whatever money he wanted, and let him build the roster from scratch. I'd be willing to bet that by year 3 we'd be better off than we are now.

Belichick wouldn't come to the Bills at any price for the straightforward reasons I stated. The Bills are like the local small town rugby club. Everyone gets along, the malcontents are shown the door (Peters, Williams, et al) the holiday party is great, as long as everyone kisses Ralph's ring before the night is out. Belichick is a top shelf, demanding SOB who kisses up to no one, and a top shelf entrepreneur successful business guy like Kraft (who doesn't need the Pats financially) gets it and lets the guy run the team. There is no fit between a guy like Belichick and WNY, Ralph or anything else about the Bills. Castoffs like Dick Jauron who just need a gig or first timers like Gregg Williams and Mike Mularkey are a fit. Sucks to be a Bills fan.

 

Brady can't play forever....

So? They just plug the next Matt Cassell - type in and win 11 games, just like Cassell did. Assuming the management and coaching of the Pats stays intact, the bills will not be very competitive with the Pats this decade.