Over 29 years of fanhood Posted December 7, 2010 Posted December 7, 2010 Seems like a an empty threat at this point. It's the NFL - which running back has no chance of scoring when they get the ball? That isn't really a compliment, it's the job description. While I understand your point, I would say the phrase is significant to distinguish the guys like Spiller and Johnson from a guy more like Thomas Jones or Green-Ellis. Of course any one has a chance to go all the way on a given play. Drew Bledsoe could have theoretically scrambled for an 80 touchdown, it is however highly improbable. To me the fact that he is one of the faster guys on the field at a given time means if he gets past the defense anywhere on the field, they aren't going to catch back up to him before he is in the end zone. That is certainly not true of all NFL RB's.
1B4IDie Posted December 7, 2010 Posted December 7, 2010 First of all Spiller was a top 10 pick. A TOP 10 PICK !!! Jackson, Addai, and Mendenhall were taken late first round. You can't compare a lottery pick with a late first round pick. Theres a reason why they're taken late. When you're a top 10 pick in the draft YOU BETTER F'IN PRODUCE. He was taken with the 9th overall pick. 2 spots ahead of where Adrian Peterson went. The dude can't even do anything for our kick return game. He's not running the ball, he's not returning well, he's fragile, and he's sucking it up. NO EXCUSE. NONE!! You compared Spiller to the running backs listed. I was responding to your comparison. You realize when you add all caps and exclamation points it makes your posts look irrational. Kind of like calling a Player out for being a wasted pick after 12 games in their career. Reggie Bush was picked #2 overall and averages 500 Yards rushing, 400 yards receiving, and 8 TD a season, thats 7 picks before Spiller. Spiller isn't going anywhere. Chan will find a way to get him the ball. There are still 4 weeks left in the season and 4 years after this season left on his contract. If at the end of 2011 he still hasn't been on the field and still isn't performing, don't worry you will have a lot of company on the Spiller hater squad, you don't get an award for being early though.
akm0404 Posted December 7, 2010 Posted December 7, 2010 If any NFL running back gets behind the defense, it's going to be a TD 95% of the time. Reason: running back is moving at full speed toward defender who is either stationary, moving forward to tackle, or moving laterally. Problem is, he can't get behind the defense.
DreReed83 Posted December 7, 2010 Posted December 7, 2010 You compared Spiller to the running backs listed. I was responding to your comparison. You realize when you add all caps and exclamation points it makes your posts look irrational. Kind of like calling a Player out for being a wasted pick after 12 games in their career. Reggie Bush was picked #2 overall and averages 500 Yards rushing, 400 yards receiving, and 8 TD a season, thats 7 picks before Spiller. Spiller isn't going anywhere. Chan will find a way to get him the ball. There are still 4 weeks left in the season and 4 years after this season left on his contract. If at the end of 2011 he still hasn't been on the field and still isn't performing, don't worry you will have a lot of company on the Spiller hater squad, you don't get an award for being early though. Why did you bring up Bush? Reggie Bush 900 yds and 8 TDs from scrimmage (not counting his punt returns). CJ Spiller 280 yds and 1 TD from scrimmage. So what's your point? That CJ was useless as a top 10 pick and that I'm right? Thanks.
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted December 7, 2010 Posted December 7, 2010 You realize that not all the RBs you quoted had a good rookie year? Mendenhall 19 for 58yards 3.1ypc 0TD Steven Jackson 134 for 673yards 5.0ypc 4TDs Addai is the only 1000 yard back in his rookie year and his career is hardly considered a success, he is averaging 880 yards a season coming into this year, and the average will go down since he hasn't been able to stay on the field. So maybe you're being a little too critical of Spiller, too early. Mendenhall was benched the second game of his second year and something finally clicked, but he is still averaging about 60 yards a game, not amazing numbers. People in Pittsburgh were calling for Mendenhall's head in early 2009, those complaints were too early and too critical as well. I have always put forward this rationale too, but it is not hard to understand why Bills fans are impatient. There was no reward for the fans who advocated patience for Hardy, Trent, and Maybin, just recently. And while there are many examples of underwhelming rookie years followed by fantastic careers, it’s gets harder and harder to believe in the phenomenon given the track record of “could be’s but aren’t yet’s” that simply transitioned to “never will be’s”.
DreReed83 Posted December 7, 2010 Posted December 7, 2010 If any NFL running back gets behind the defense, it's going to be a TD 95% of the time. Reason: running back is moving at full speed toward defender who is either stationary, moving forward to tackle, or moving laterally. Problem is, he can't get behind the defense. lol. you can't get behind a defense when you're running horizontally. Shocker.
Dorkington Posted December 7, 2010 Posted December 7, 2010 If he doesn't pick it up next season, I suspect he'll have a short career here.
1B4IDie Posted December 7, 2010 Posted December 7, 2010 (edited) Why did you bring up Bush? Reggie Bush 900 yds and 8 TDs from scrimmage (not counting his punt returns). CJ Spiller 280 yds and 1 TD from scrimmage. So what's your point? That CJ was useless as a top 10 pick and that I'm right? Thanks. What specifically are you right about? Spiller is having a slow start to his career. No ****. No one is arguing the contrary. To make the assumption that the first 12 games of his career is indicative of the rest of his career, is foolish and impatient. I have always put forward this rationale too, but it is not hard to understand why Bills fans are impatient. There was no reward for the fans who advocated patience for Hardy, Trent, and Maybin, just recently. And while there are many examples of underwhelming rookie years followed by fantastic careers, it’s gets harder and harder to believe in the phenomenon given the track record of “could be’s but aren’t yet’s” that simply transitioned to “never will be’s”. I agree with that. Hardy and Maybin were busts from Day 1, and Trent was a 3rd round QB, that played ok until he was buried alive in Arizona. I can see how people can be impatient, but can we atleast give the kid 16 maybe 32 games before we start calling for his head? Edited December 7, 2010 by Why So Serious?
Ramius Posted December 7, 2010 Posted December 7, 2010 (edited) Why did you bring up Bush? Reggie Bush 900 yds and 8 TDs from scrimmage (not counting his punt returns). CJ Spiller 280 yds and 1 TD from scrimmage. So what's your point? That CJ was useless as a top 10 pick and that I'm right? Thanks. If you declare yourself the winner of an internet argument, you've already lost. Edited December 7, 2010 by Ramius
Dorkington Posted December 7, 2010 Posted December 7, 2010 What specifically are you right about? Spiller is having a slow start to his career. No ****. No one is arguing the contrary. To make the assumption that first 12 games of his career is indicative of the rest of his career, is foolish and impatient. I agree with that. Hardy and Maybin were busts from Day 1, and Trent was a 3rd round QB, that played ok until he was buried alive in Arizona. I can see how people can be impatient, but can we atleast give the kid 16 maybe 32 before we start calling for his head? He's a running back. If he's any good he should be instantly contributing to the team. He's not. His time is short, unless Chan is purposefully holding him back.
Thoner7 Posted December 7, 2010 Posted December 7, 2010 It seems like a lot of fans arent too hot on this pick anymore. Maybe taking the situational RB who never ran between the tackle in college when we already had 2 boarderline PBers at RB and have huge holes everywhere else wasnt such a great idea? Who woulda thought?
EastRochBillsfan Posted December 7, 2010 Posted December 7, 2010 You realize that not all the RBs you quoted had a good rookie year? Mendenhall 19 for 58yards 3.1ypc 0TD Steven Jackson 134 for 673yards 5.0ypc 4TDs Addai is the only 1000 yard back in his rookie year and his career is hardly considered a success, he is averaging 880 yards a season coming into this year, and the average will go down since he hasn't been able to stay on the field. So maybe you're being a little too critical of Spiller, too early. Mendenhall was benched the second game of his second year and something finally clicked, but he is still averaging about 60 yards a game, not amazing numbers. People in Pittsburgh were calling for Mendenhall's head in early 2009, those complaints were too early and too critical as well. Thank you for bringing sanity back to this insane thread. I could not agree with you more that NO ONE is going to be great with a bad offensive line. However Jackson is running better than Spiller with the same offensive line. I would expect our first round draft pick to outplay the guy who is holding the position. Freddie is a very good back. Why does our first round pick have to unseat him? Not a lot of rookies would be able to do that. A lot of you guys on here are just going way over board, as usual. This team is building for the long haul and Spiller is going to be a big part of that. Chan is breaking him in slowly for whatever reasons but just like he got stevie and roscoe into the gameplan, so too will he get CJ into it. We have seen some glimpses of what he is capable of. Before you all go off the deep end, give it another year for some pieces of the puzzle to be added and the rookie to be broke in. This time next year you'll all be singing a different tune. It seems like a lot of fans arent too hot on this pick anymore. Maybe taking the situational RB who never ran between the tackle in college when we already had 2 boarderline PBers at RB and have huge holes everywhere else wasnt such a great idea? Who woulda thought? It was only a matter of time. Do we really have to go through this again?
Sisyphean Bills Posted December 7, 2010 Posted December 7, 2010 This team wasn't a great fit for CJ and his production is pretty paltry. The logjam at his position and confounded inability of the front office to resolve it quickly and decisively didn't help anything. The OL just isn't that good and has been banged up from the beginning, there was a QB change in September, etc. all making it hard to develop any sort of screen game, which CJ was devastating in at Clemson. The running game that I think Chan had envisioned back in July and August just never got very far off the ground. Finally, there aren't many counter-weapons on offense to open things up for Spiller either. Still, his speed cannot be coached and there is still a chance that Spiller could be productive. The situation looks like someone put a pair of mag wheels on their beater car.
tennesseeboy Posted December 7, 2010 Posted December 7, 2010 i'm not going off the deep end...I'm just saying there is no way to date that CJ Spiller is showing promise as a number one pick. Maybe he will. Until he does he's not worth the pick.
DreReed83 Posted December 7, 2010 Posted December 7, 2010 (edited) I swear, people who support Spiller because he's fast must really LOVE Al Davis's approach to drafting. i'm not going off the deep end...I'm just saying there is no way to date that CJ Spiller is showing promise as a number one pick. Maybe he will. Until he does he's not worth the pick. Thats the point im trying to make. If we got him middle or late first round, then i'd be A LOT more patient with him. It's completely different than Mendenhall or Steven Jackson. Those RB's were taken late first round and arent as costly so I wouldnt care as much if it took time for them to produce. But why the hell do we have to WAIT for Spiller to show promise? Top 10 picks should produce IMMEDIATELY. They should at least play enough to make some kinda impact. 500 or 600 yds maybe. 5 TDs? Am I asking for too much from a top 10 RB? Edited December 7, 2010 by DreReed83
Dorkington Posted December 7, 2010 Posted December 7, 2010 This team wasn't a great fit for CJ and his production is pretty paltry. The logjam at his position and confounded inability of the front office to resolve it quickly and decisively didn't help anything. The OL just isn't that good and has been banged up from the beginning, there was a QB change in September, etc. all making it hard to develop any sort of screen game, which CJ was devastating in at Clemson. The running game that I think Chan had envisioned back in July and August just never got very far off the ground. Finally, there aren't many counter-weapons on offense to open things up for Spiller either. Still, his speed cannot be coached and there is still a chance that Spiller could be productive. The situation looks like someone put a pair of mag wheels on their beater car. I have a feeling he'd be really successful on a team that does a lot of spread formations, and has an indoor stadium.
billsfreak Posted December 7, 2010 Posted December 7, 2010 This thread will quickly devolve into a "what a wasted pick" thread. Bottom line, CJ is very talented kid who is a threat to break one every time he touches the ball. He's got amazing speed/quickness. That said, he needs to learn a LOT about the NFL game. You can't get by in the NFL with just physical gifts. If he learns, I envision him being the next Chris Johnson. If not, the next Reggie Bush. Easy to predict the obvious isn't it? What is your next prediction that it will snow again in Buffalo before spring gets here? It was a wasted pick, in that even if he does turn into the supposed threat that can break one every time he touches it (one kickoff doesn't amount to every time?), it was still a luxury pick that a terrible team can't afford to make. We keep hearing how he is a threat to break one every time over and over, but are yet to see it. All we have seen so far is a undersized back, who dances more than John Travolta did in Saturday Night Fever, cannot block to save his or anyone else's life, spouts off at the mouth (or over the internet) and can't stay healthy. As a Bills fan, I really hope he turns into a Hall of Fame back, but at this point, drafting defensive help, offensive lineman or even a quarterback were much higher needs on this team, and way harder to find in later rounds. How many of the starting and successful running backs in the NFL right now were top 10 picks? How many were found in later rounds? I bet you find alot more in the later. With the state of the offensive line, we might never find out if he will make it anyway as he is likely to get killed before that ever happens. We keep filling the offensive line positions, especially LT, maybe the most critical position on an offense besides QB with undrafted rookies-there was a reason they were undrafted as we are seeing on sundays.
Dorkington Posted December 7, 2010 Posted December 7, 2010 The only way the pick will turn out to be worthwhile is if he is getting the ball 20 times a game and doing amazing things with it.
Billy in 4C Posted December 7, 2010 Posted December 7, 2010 Good RB's find ways to do well even with a porous line. Spiller doesnt even see the field. So don't blame our o-line for his failures. Read Buffalo Rumblings. They have every run and pass blocking grade on every play of the season. Or just watch the games. It's pretty clear that Spiller gets hit in the backfield on a ridiculous amount of plays. Last week we had our 4th string RT, 4th string center, 3rd string RG and 3rd string LG. I don't believe Levitre ever played center before in his entire college or NFL career. Even despite that, Spiller averaged 5 ypc against the NFL's 4th best rush defense. What are you looking for exactly?
1B4IDie Posted December 7, 2010 Posted December 7, 2010 (edited) I swear, people who support Spiller because he's fast must really LOVE Al Davis's approach to drafting. Thats the point im trying to make. If we got him middle or late first round, then i'd be A LOT more patient with him. It's completely different than Mendenhall or Steven Jackson. Those RB's were taken late first round and arent as costly so I wouldnt care as much if it took time for them to produce. But why the hell do we have to WAIT for Spiller to show promise? Top 10 picks should produce IMMEDIATELY. They should at least play enough to make some kinda impact. 500 or 600 yds maybe. 5 TDs? Am I asking for too much from a top 10 RB? So you originally compared Mendenhall, and Steve Jackson with Spiller, and now you decided to change your tune. Now its, "well Steven Jackson was drafted 15 spots after CJ Spiller. So If you're drafted #24 you get a year, if you're drafted #9 you don't get a year." Awesome opinion, thanks. Spiller has had little impact through the first 12 games and was drafted with #9 pick. Great, you accessed the obvious, Amazing analysis. No one is arguing the obvious. Care to offer anything original or insightful? Its Week 14 Spiller is on the roster, what do you suggest the Bills do? (As a side note the Oakland Raiders are 6-6 and have an outside chance at a Wild Card. Also even though ESPN likes to make fun of Al Davis outside of JaWalrus and Darrius Heyward-Bey, they have had 4 years of very good draft picks that are making a difference on the field. http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/rai/draft.htm) Edited December 7, 2010 by Why So Serious?
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