Fed documents released

[....lybob]

[Nanker]

And the big surprise to you here is exactly what?

[GG]

And the big surprise to you here is exactly what?

 

That Credit Suisse, UBS and RBS, which employ tens of thousands of people in the US, and move billions of dollars on a daily basis are not important.

[Nanker]

That Credit Suisse, UBS and RBS, which employ tens of thousands of people in the US, and move billions of dollars on a daily basis are not important.

 

Yeah, but they're good-for-nuttin' foreigners - ain't they?

[GG]

Yeah, but they're good-for-nuttin' foreigners - ain't they?

 

Fuzzy ones, at that.

[....lybob]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h3TZDPONSiA

[IDBillzFan]

youtube.com/watch?v=h3TZDPONSiA

Wow. Someone needs some cheese to go with that whine.

[Dante]

Turned it off at 1.19. Not worth my time. btw, I'm thinking that the Gambino family would be more honorable and actually do a much better job at running the country. Sure they would want their cut but I'm sure it would be much smaller than the cost of the current payoffs now to unions, social programs and government employees.

Edited December 2, 2010 by Dante

[TPS]

That Credit Suisse, UBS and RBS, which employ tens of thousands of people in the US, and move billions of dollars on a daily basis are not important.

I hope you're not saying it was about saving those jobs?

[GG]

I hope you're not saying it was about saving those jobs?

 

No. The response was to the contention that the money went to foreign bankers while US interests were ignored.

Edited December 2, 2010 by GG

[....lybob]

No. The response was to the contention that the money went to foreign bankers while US interests were ignored.

I know, what's anyone complaining about, only 600 billion went to foreign banks the rest went to U.S. banks and corporations, everyone who was important got bailed out. What was really great was when all those good and important people being somewhat humbled and grateful for being bailed out decided to do all they could for Main Street America, and as a gesture to show solidarity with the average American worker who they knew would take a hit as a result of the financial crisis vowed to give their bonuses to food banks and other charities for a year to help relieve any suffering.

[DC Tom]

I know, what's anyone complaining about, only 600 billion went to foreign banks the rest went to U.S. banks and corporations, everyone who was important got bailed out. What was really great was when all those good and important people being somewhat humbled and grateful for being bailed out decided to do all they could for Main Street America, and as a gesture to show solidarity with the average American worker who they knew would take a hit as a result of the financial crisis vowed to give their bonuses to food banks and other charities for a year to help relieve any suffering.

 

It amazes me that people so completely ignorant about finance go to such great lengths to show it off.

 

Guess what? Fannie and Freddie insure assets held by foreign banks, too. Mull that one over.

[....lybob]

It amazes me that people so completely ignorant about finance go to such great lengths to show it off.

 

Guess what? Fannie and Freddie insure assets held by foreign banks, too. Mull that one over.

yeah Tommy I get it we are being held hostage- screw that let it blow up we'll be better off in the long run.

[Magox]

I know, what's anyone complaining about, only 600 billion went to foreign banks the rest went to U.S. banks and corporations, everyone who was important got bailed out. What was really great was when all those good and important people being somewhat humbled and grateful for being bailed out decided to do all they could for Main Street America, and as a gesture to show solidarity with the average American worker who they knew would take a hit as a result of the financial crisis vowed to give their bonuses to food banks and other charities for a year to help relieve any suffering.

You call it a bailout, and then suggest that the banks were able to use these funds and then redistribute it back to the economy. Bob, this tells me that you have a fundamental misunderstanding of what the TALF and CPFF was designed to do. I guess you don't remember how things were in September of 2008. I have had this discussion with GG on more than a few occassions, I have credited the actions of the FED in the creation of TALF and CPFF as the main reasons of what stabilized the capital markets, more so than TARP. TARP just capitalized the banks, and there is a much more plausible criticism of banks not doing enough to help support the economy, simply because it is taxpayer money. Now I am not going to go that route, because I was against TARP, and I believe that all sorts of moral hazards are tied to it and that makes it that much more difficult to fully assess.

 

I am a critic of the FED, but this isn't an area that warrants rational criticism. If you remember, in the height of panic during 2008, there was the beginning of a chain of runs on banks. Why was this occuring? Simply because short-term lending, the commercial paper markets had dried up. LIBOR rates soared, no banks trusted one another simply because they didn't know the exposure each of these banks had of bad debt on their books, and that is when the credit markets locked up. When the credit markets locked up, everything ran a muck. What TALF and the CPFF addressed was short-term lending. The Fed didn't give the money away, they took collateral (ABS)of AAA rated debt in exchange for liquidity. Interest rate spreads on AAA rated tranches of ABS went through the roof, which of course the risk premiums reflected this anxiety. What TALF and CPFF did was lubricate the markets through increasing credit availability . The Fed stepped up when the markets needed them most. They were the lender of last resort.

 

If this hadn't of occured, I assure you that the world of looked much more differnt than it does today, and when I say different, I mean different in a bad way. If they hadn't of stepped up, not only would the banks of been punished, but main street would of been clobbered. There would of virtually been NO CREDIT availability for households or small businesses. So this wasn't intended for the sole purpose of bailing out the banks, but for bailing out mainstreet as well.

 

The problem you have Bob, is that you get all your sources of information from one view point. Which is the conspiracy "banks and big businesses are bad" prism, this is what fits your perception, so you are attracted to it, much like a magnet to a refrigerator. You see, I look at things from all angles, I read the HUFFPO, I read Politico, I read WSJ, Bloomberg, NY TIMES, WASHPO, etc. etc. the point being is that I get my sources of information from all view points, and from there I form my opinion on what I believe makes sense.

 

I am not beholden to one idealogy, and I suggest you do the same if you really want to be a serious contributor and thinker.

 

I have a suggestion for you, why don't you do a little homework on the CPFF and TALF. And No, not from your usual list of suspects of sources. Try some of the credible business sources of news. I have been doing this long enough to know who is credible and who isn't. I will give you a helping hand, look at some of the credible bond investors, read what they have to say, they usually have the best insight with the least idealogical tilt to it. They will serve you best in your quest for the truth.

[DC Tom]

yeah Tommy I get it we are being held hostage- screw that let it blow up we'll be better off in the long run.

 

You clearly don't.

[....lybob]

You call it a bailout, and then suggest that the banks were able to use these funds and then redistribute it back to the economy. Bob, this tells me that you have a fundamental misunderstanding of what the TALF and CPFF was designed to do. I guess you don't remember how things were in September of 2008. I have had this discussion with GG on more than a few occassions, I have credited the actions of the FED in the creation of TALF and CPFF as the main reasons of what stabilized the capital markets, more so than TARP. TARP just capitalized the banks, and there is a much more plausible criticism of banks not doing enough to help support the economy, simply because it is taxpayer money. Now I am not going to go that route, because I was against TARP, and I believe that all sorts of moral hazards are tied to it and that makes it that much more difficult to fully assess.

 

I am a critic of the FED, but this isn't an area that warrants rational criticism. If you remember, in the height of panic during 2008, there was the beginning of a chain of runs on banks. Why was this occuring? Simply because short-term lending, the commercial paper markets had dried up. LIBOR rates soared, no banks trusted one another simply because they didn't know the exposure each of these banks had of bad debt on their books, and that is when the credit markets locked up. When the credit markets locked up, everything ran a muck. What TALF and the CPFF addressed was short-term lending. The Fed didn't give the money away, they took collateral (ABS)of AAA rated debt in exchange for liquidity. Interest rate spreads on AAA rated tranches of ABS went through the roof, which of course the risk premiums reflected this anxiety. What TALF and CPFF did was lubricate the markets through increasing credit availability . The Fed stepped up when the markets needed them most. They were the lender of last resort.

 

If this hadn't of occured, I assure you that the world of looked much more differnt than it does today, and when I say different, I mean different in a bad way. If they hadn't of stepped up, not only would the banks of been punished, but main street would of been clobbered. There would of virtually been NO CREDIT availability for households or small businesses. So this wasn't intended for the sole purpose of bailing out the banks, but for bailing out mainstreet as well.

 

The problem you have Bob, is that you get all your sources of information from one view point. Which is the conspiracy "banks and big businesses are bad" prism, this is what fits your perception, so you are attracted to it, much like a magnet to a refrigerator. You see, I look at things from all angles, I read the HUFFPO, I read Politico, I read WSJ, Bloomberg, NY TIMES, WASHPO, etc. etc. the point being is that I get my sources of information from all view points, and from there I form my opinion on what I believe makes sense.

 

I am not beholden to one idealogy, and I suggest you do the same if you really want to be a serious contributor and thinker.

 

I have a suggestion for you, why don't you do a little homework on the CPFF and TALF. And No, not from your usual list of suspects of sources. Try some of the credible business sources of news. I have been doing this long enough to know who is credible and who isn't. I will give you a helping hand, look at some of the credible bond investors, read what they have to say, they usually have the best insight with the least idealogical tilt to it. They will serve you best in your quest for the truth.

 

You think we have averted a financial crisis that was caused by inadequate liquidity- nothing was averted merely postponed and will back come in the form of a sovereign debt crisis and a monetary crisis, and this will come not in a period of relatively cheap energy as it would have if we took the admittedly painful steps to reorder an out of control worldwide finance industry- it will come with expensive energy and all that entails and with average Americans already depleted of resources- your problem is you believe in an economics that is based on psychology but it is not the psychology of a normal human being , it is the psychology of a sociopath- it is the "hey it's just business" of the mobster, this mentality is making inroads to all businesses but nowhere is as pervasive as the finance industry which self selects in favor of those devoid of empathy. What the FED and the government has really done is transfered wealth to the top and has given time for poor positions to be gracefully unwind from and a transition from paper assets to tangible assets to be made. I can see how this pleases you as you seem to think that all good things come from the top and everyone else should be grateful for whatever crumbs fall from the sky.

[Nanker]

Why doesn't President BO have Nancy and Harry write a law to outlaw banks of all kinds.

We can keep our cash, eyes and sperm under our mattresses.

It would make things so much simpler and dare I say - more fair.

[....lybob]

Why doesn't President BO have Nancy and Harry write a law to outlaw banks of all kinds.

We can keep our cash, eyes and sperm under our mattresses.

It would make things so much simpler and dare I say - more fair.

well that's one way to go if you are mentally deficient.

 

I prefer that large, internationally active financial institutions- that are too big to fail or too interconnected to fail- should be reduced to holding companies of national operations that are organized as stand-alone units in the respective countries. Such a structure would reduce the risks to financial stability by creating domestic financial institutions subject to local jurisdictions in the respective markets, But to each their own.

[Nanker]

Splendid. Increase impedance in large markets by forced fractionation and imposing multi-layered regulatory controls.

Buying a larger mattress would be quicker and more to the point.

 

By the way - what does "too big to fail" actually mean?

To me it is like "healthcare", i.e., a convenient name of ill-defined meaning that's easily bandied about by politicians.

I liken its use to hate speech.

[Magox]

You think we have averted a financial crisis that was caused by inadequate liquidity- nothing was averted merely postponed and will back come in the form of a sovereign debt crisis and a monetary crisis, and this will come not in a period of relatively cheap energy as it would have if we took the admittedly painful steps to reorder an out of control worldwide finance industry- it will come with expensive energy and all that entails and with average Americans already depleted of resources- your problem is you believe in an economics that is based on psychology but it is not the psychology of a normal human being , it is the psychology of a sociopath- it is the "hey it's just business" of the mobster, this mentality is making inroads to all businesses but nowhere is as pervasive as the finance industry which self selects in favor of those devoid of empathy. What the FED and the government has really done is transfered wealth to the top and has given time for poor positions to be gracefully unwind from and a transition from paper assets to tangible assets to be made. I can see how this pleases you as you seem to think that all good things come from the top and everyone else should be grateful for whatever crumbs fall from the sky.

Like I said, you have a fundamental misunderstanding of what the TALF and CPFF programs were. You are beholden to the looney leftist conspirasist theorist mentality.

 

I have criticized the FED on this board on more than a few occassions and I definitely didn't support TARP. No where did I say we averted a Financial crisis, we are still living in it right now. However that doesn't mean that things couldn't of been worse, because they could of and they would of if these programs hadn't of existed.

 

It must be real nice for people to live in a black or white world, where only these two options exist. The reality is that there are many shades of grey that lie in between these two polarized worlds. I find that most answers are in these grey areas, you seem to see things as either or neither. I am able to think for myself (able being the key word), I form my opinions based on real data, you form your thoughts based on what loons from the left tell you to think. I have never seen a semblance of an original thought ever come from you. You are basically comprised of Youtube clippings and HuffPo opinion pieces.

 

The fact that you don't believe that TALF and CPFF didn't help main street speaks to your ignorance. I will give you a chance to redeem yourself, did these programs created by the FED, tremendously help out Main Street? Answer the question

Edited December 3, 2010 by Magox