Wilcots: Fitzpatrick the Answer

[Dorkington]

I like Fitz. I don't think we need to change QBs, as I don't think he's the reason we are losing.

 

But fact is, he isn't winning us games, so he, along with every other player on the team, and the coaches, should be held accountable and shouldn't have the least bit of job security.

 

Go win some games guys, the fans have been waiting.

[1billsfan]

You are very astute. Fitz is a good story. However, he is not the second coming of Drew Brees, as another poster stated. As you noted, the Bills are much more entertaining on offense. That doesn't change the reality that their record is 2-9. The franchise is at the starting gate of a marathon, some wishful believers think they are approaching the finishing line. Sometimes delusions are much more fun than reality.

 

You're the one who's delusional. The intelligent posters here can recognize what's going on. Can recognize a team that's quickly closing the gap in a watered down NFL where there are no longer any "elite" teams. This isn't the NFL of a few years ago when it was clear only a few have a shot. The Steelers and Ravens no longer have the unbeatable defenses, the Pats and Colts no longer have the unfailable offenses. The Jets???? Oh please, they're not the juggernaut that you profess them to be. The Bills will have a great shot at making the playoffs next year and the Superbowl in two years.

[JohnC]

You're the one who's delusional. The intelligent posters here can recognize what's going on. Can recognize a team that's quickly closing the gap in a watered down NFL where there are no longer any "elite" teams. This isn't the NFL of a few years ago when it was clear only a few have a shot. The Steelers and Ravens no longer have the unbeatable defenses, the Pats and Colts no longer have the unfailable offenses. The Jets???? Oh please, they're not the juggernaut that you profess them to be. The Bills will have a great shot at making the playoffs next year and the Superbowl in two years.

 

What you don't understand is that it isn't only about a team in a particular year. It is more about the strength of an organization. The Ravens, Steelers, Pats, Chargers, Colts etc have superior organizations that can maintain their high level of competitiveness. This is the era of the cap and free agency. All the mentioned franchises have quality front offices which are able to neogtiate their way in a parity system. There should be no surprise that the Bills have struggled mightily under this challenging system with the caliber of ownership and organization.

 

I agree with your view that there aren't any sustainable elite teams because of the cap and free agency system. But the smart organizations are able to continue competing at a high level because they scout better in the pro and college ranks. They also are able to make good decisions regarding contracts and managing the cap.

 

The Bills have been bad for almost a generation. It certainly isn't due to their competency.

 

The Bills will have a great shot at making the playoffs next year and the Superbowl in two years.

 

I hope you are not a betting man. Because if you are you will be impoverished.

[mikef272002]

I have NEVER seen Manning take a hit like the one Harrison laid on RFP last game. He is mild mannered and loose, smart as (actually, why be modest, SMARTER than) anyone in the league, and tough as nails! These Bill could use a top shelf right tackle to keep RFP's head connected to his body though. He is getting hit WAY too much, and way too hard.

 

Hopefully the refs will start to give him "the star treatment" that he (and Brady & Manning) deserves.

 

 

 

 

I would bet that if he had the kind of protection that Manning has, he would be much more accurate. Manning doesn't get a quarter of the abuse that RFP gets. He has guys in his face. I'm not saying he is going to reach the Manning level, I'm saying he will be even better if thye upgrade the O-line a couple of notches. I don't think they need to spend the 1st pick on a lineman, but there are ways to get a couple better guys in to play.

 

Look at what happened to Manning the other night when playing San Diego, San Diego was able to get pressure on him and he throws 31 Comp. 17 In-Comp. 285 yards 2 TD and 4 Interceptions.. Pretty below average when your line plays like crap..! I love Fitz. and I think we can do just fine with the guy.Lets build a strong Defense and snatch a top RT.>! Bell hasent given up a sack at LT all year..! So I think were set there too..! Draft this;

 

1 - DE

2 - LB

3 - LB

4 - DE

4 - TE

5 - DT

6 - Offensive line depth

7 - Best Available

 

And get your self a RT and another LB in Free Agency..

[JohnC]

Instead of just repeating the win-loss record, how about considering how the games are won and lost.

 

PTR

 

I'll say to you what I have said to another poster: I'm not into the lovable loser syndrome. At the end of the day you are judged on your record. For those people like you who live by the "what ifs" and "if only" go ahead and celebrate your losses with an "almost". The bottom line is that an almost win is simply counted as another loss.

[reddogblitz]

Look at what happened to Manning the other night when playing San Diego, San Diego was able to get pressure on him and he throws 31 Comp. 17 In-Comp. 285 yards 2 TD and 4 Interceptions.. Pretty below average when your line plays like crap..!

While we were watching that game I made the comment to my wife, "Hey Peyton, welcome to Ryan Fitzpatrick's world". He looked pretty ordinary without the protection he's used to. Same thing happens to Tom Brady. With a better line, Fitz would be an even better QB.

[JohnC]

Ehh. I think you are both fairly delusional. All this "water downed league" means is that NO ONE can predict what team will be able to succeed more than a year in advance. That being said, 1billsfan, I hate to say it, but if I had a dollar for every time I heard an opinion similar to yours in the past 10 years.....

 

There is 0 evidence to suggest that the Bills have a great shot at the playoffs next year. I think they have taken HUGE strides since the beginning of the season. But, they still have a lot of holes. Please note that every single team (even the teams we have come close to beating) have pretty much run at will against our defense. You cannot be a playoff bound team and be last in the league in run defense.

 

Would I be surprised if the Bills make a push for the playoffs next year? Not entirely. Look at the Jaguars for gods sake. But, lets mitigate the optimism a little bit.

 

Other than accusing me of being delusional I agree with your assessment.

[1billsfan]

Ehh. I think you are both fairly delusional. All this "water downed league" means is that NO ONE can predict what team will be able to succeed more than a year in advance. That being said, 1billsfan, I hate to say it, but if I had a dollar for every time I heard an opinion similar to yours in the past 10 years.....

 

There is 0 evidence to suggest that the Bills have a great shot at the playoffs next year. I think they have taken HUGE strides since the beginning of the season. But, they still have a lot of holes. Please note that every single team (even the teams we have come close to beating) have pretty much run at will against our defense. You cannot be a playoff bound team and be last in the league in run defense.

 

Would I be surprised if the Bills make a push for the playoffs next year? Not entirely. Look at the Jaguars for gods sake. But, lets mitigate the optimism a little bit.

 

There is plenty of evidence. Fitzpatrick/WRs' phenominal play, the defense is showing vast improvement, Jackson is solid. The last 6 games alone should give you the evidence that this isn't the same Bills of the last ten years. This team has a bunch of ballers that are ready to take the next step with a little more help. I'm thinking with maybe four or five new starters (1st round DE, 2nd round LB) and a few free agent signings (TE, LB, OL) this team is well positioned at making a run at the playoffs. Nobody is going to want to play the Bills next year. In two years this team should be VERY good, even Superbowl champ good. That Giant team that won a few years ago should be the model for this team.

[PromoTheRobot]

I'll say to you what I have said to another poster: I'm not into the lovable loser syndrome. At the end of the day you are judged on your record. For those people like you who live by the "what ifs" and "if only" go ahead and celebrate your losses with an "almost". The bottom line is that an almost win is simply counted as another loss.

What I was referring to is what led to the loss? Defense? QB play? Special teams? Look at the 9 losses and try to identify what happened in each game. If you do that then you realize QB play isn't the issue the Bills. I'm not talking moral victories here. If you are going to talk about what the Bills need to do in 2011 it would help if you did more than look at the win/loss record and base your decisions solely on that.

 

PTR

Edited November 30, 2010 by PromoTheRobot

[bills_fan_in_raleigh]

The Wisdom of Solomon Great article and clearly Chan has faith in fitzy. Lets fix the D and add some OL support than worry about a QB of future since ya currently have what looks like a QB of the present 3 - 5 years.

[N.Y. Orangeman]

If Buddy believes there is a franchise QB available, he will take him. It doesn't matter what he thinks of Fitz. All you have to do is look at SD and what he did when he had Brees.

[Bill from NYC]

You and some others are missing my point about DJ. If DJ is so bad then why was he hired? Why was he given an extension? Why was a clueless Marv Levy even brought into the organization?

 

The answer to your question is an easy one.

Nobody else wanted Levy as a GM. I am sure you believe this to be true. Levy in turn hired a coach who nobody else wanted. This too is true.

 

I am not trying, nor willing to turn this into a blast Ralph session, but these were two indefensible, unexplainable hires. And, they set back the franchise.

[JohnC]

What I was referring to is what led to the loss? Defense? QB play? Special teams? Look at the 9 losses and try to identify what happened in each game. If you do that then you realize QB play isn't the issue the Bills. I'm not talking moral victories here. If you are going to talk about what the Bills need to do in 2011 it would help if you did more than look at the win/loss record and base your decisions solely on that.

 

PTR

 

The issue for the Bills is simply a lack of talent. The roster is being reshaped. There is a lot of work to do. It is going to take multiple years to accomplish. One obvious example of their limitations is their run defense. It is extremely bad. They are not a physically strong team on that side of the ball. The Steelers ran the ball against the Bills despite having a patchwork OL.

 

There is no doubt that Fitz is playing fairly well. My view of him (minority view) is that he is a limited qb who makes up for his limitations (accuracy and arm strength) with his intelligence. If you have serious aspirations for the team other than being an 8-8 team then you need better physical talent at the qb position.

 

The Pats are better than the Bills. That is indisputable. In the next draft they will have multiple picks in the first three rounds. The Jets are better than the Bills, especially on both lines. The issue isn't how good your team is, the real issue is how good is your team compared to the opposition.

 

You relentlessly avoid factoring in the team's record when judging the team. That is absurd. The Bills are certainly an improving team. But what does that really mean? As I stated in another posting the Bills are at the beginning of a marathon project while most of the "True Bill-ievers" think they are approaching the finish line. I don't agree with that assessment. A generation of mediocrity will not allow me to inflate the talent level of this below average team. When you are 2-9 you are 2-9.

[Bill from NYC]

The issue for the Bills is simply a lack of talent. The roster is being reshaped. There is a lot of work to do. It is going to take multiple years to accomplish. One obvious example of their limitations is their run defense. It is extremely bad. They are not a physically strong team on that side of the ball. The Steelers ran the ball against the Bills despite having a patchwork OL.

 

There is no doubt that Fitz is playing fairly well. My view of him (minority view) is that he is a limited qb who makes up for his limitations (accuracy and arm strength) with his intelligence. If you have serious aspirations for the team other than being an 8-8 team then you need better physical talent at the qb position.

 

The Pats are better than the Bills. That is indisputable. In the next draft they will have multiple picks in the first three rounds. The Jets are better than the Bills, especially on both lines. The issue isn't how good your team is, the real issue is how good is your team compared to the opposition.

 

You relentlessly avoid factoring in the team's record when judging the team. That is absurd. The Bills are certainly an improving team. But what does that really mean? As I stated in another posting the Bills are at the beginning of a marathon project while most of the "True Bill-ievers" think they are approaching the finish line. I don't agree with that assessment. A generation of mediocrity will not allow me to inflate the talent level of this below average team. When you are 2-9 you are 2-9.

 

Much of this post is indisputable.

 

The Bills need better players, and most of them have to be on the OL and front 7. And, if they think that a certain quarterback will be a superstar, they shoud grab him imo.

[JohnC]

The answer to your question is an easy one.

Nobody else wanted Levy as a GM. I am sure you believe this to be true. Levy in turn hired a coach who nobody else wanted. This too is true.

 

I am not trying, nor willing to turn this into a blast Ralph session, but these were two indefensible, unexplainable hires. And, they set back the franchise.

 

Now I think you have an inkling on what my central point was. Organizational dysfunction is very pernicious. Bad decisions have bad consequences. The root problem had little to do with Levy or Jauron. It had everything to do with an erratic owner and his bizarre organizational system and decision process.

 

Much of this post is indisputable.

 

The Bills need better players, and most of them have to be on the OL and front 7. And, if they think that a certain quarterback will be a superstar, they shoud grab him imo.

 

You are astute.

[PromoTheRobot]

The issue for the Bills is simply a lack of talent. The roster is being reshaped. There is a lot of work to do. It is going to take multiple years to accomplish. One obvious example of their limitations is their run defense. It is extremely bad. They are not a physically strong team on that side of the ball. The Steelers ran the ball against the Bills despite having a patchwork OL.

 

There is no doubt that Fitz is playing fairly well. My view of him (minority view) is that he is a limited qb who makes up for his limitations (accuracy and arm strength) with his intelligence. If you have serious aspirations for the team other than being an 8-8 team then you need better physical talent at the qb position.

 

The Pats are better than the Bills. That is indisputable. In the next draft they will have multiple picks in the first three rounds. The Jets are better than the Bills, especially on both lines. The issue isn't how good your team is, the real issue is how good is your team compared to the opposition.

 

You relentlessly avoid factoring in the team's record when judging the team. That is absurd. The Bills are certainly an improving team. But what does that really mean? As I stated in another posting the Bills are at the beginning of a marathon project while most of the "True Bill-ievers" think they are approaching the finish line. I don't agree with that assessment. A generation of mediocrity will not allow me to inflate the talent level of this below average team. When you are 2-9 you are 2-9.

And I would counter that you are too focused on the W's and L's. This team is a few key plays from being 6-5. So if 4 plays went our way are we suddenly that much better a team? We make too many mistakes. That's not so much a lack of talent as a lack of focus.

 

Wins and losses are practically meaningless when judging individual players because winning is a team effort. Trent Edwards was dreadful. Some blamed his O-line that looked inept. But when Fitz steps in suddenly they play better. What changed? Did Fitz wave a magic wand and make the line better, or did Fitz's ability to read defenses and make plays suddenly give players with some talent better leadership?

 

Same with the WRs. With Edwards they were never open. Bad WRs we all thought. Now with Fitz not only are they open but we make plays downfield. Again what changed?

 

That old Parcells adage about being what your record says is an overused meaningless cliche. That's for people who don't get football, the ones who can't think their way past the final score. You have to consider why you are losing. You don't lose because you are 2-9 football team, you lose because some part of your team is not getting the job done. And if you can't focus on what needs fixing then you are just throwing darts at the problem.

 

PTR

[bills_fan_in_raleigh]

And I would counter that you are too focused on the W's and L's. This team is a few key plays from being 6-5. So if 4 plays went our way are we suddenly that much better a team? We make too many mistakes. That's not so much a lack of talent as a lack of focus.

 

Wins and losses are practically meaningless when judging individual players because winning is a team effort. Trent Edwards was dreadful. Some blamed his O-line that looked inept. But when Fitz steps in suddenly they play better. What changed? Did Fitz wave a magic wand and make the line better, or did Fitz's ability to read defenses and make plays suddenly give players with some talent better leadership?

 

Same with the WRs. With Edwards they were never open. Bad WRs we all thought. Now with Fitz not only are they open but we make plays downfield. Again what changed?

 

That old Parcells adage about being what your record says is an overused meaningless cliche. That's for people who don't get football, the ones who can't think their way past the final score. You have to consider why you are losing. You don't lose because you are 2-9 football team, you lose because some part of your team is not getting the job done. And if you can't focus on what needs fixing then you are just throwing darts at the problem.

 

PTR

Well said PTR and what needs fixing on this team right now is the front 7. Mostly in the LB corp

[JohnC]

And I would counter that you are too focused on the W's and L's. This team is a few key plays from being 6-5. So if 4 plays went our way are we suddenly that much better a team? We make too many mistakes. That's not so much a lack of talent as a lack of focus.

 

You can avoid the reality all you want but what is obvious is obvious. The Bills lose for the simple reason that they lack the required talent to win. Talking about this play or that play causing a change in the game is utter foolishness. In any one game there are a number of plays which are impactful. Good, talented teams overcome the inevitable negative plays. Less talented teams don't overcome the negative plays because they simply have less margin for errors.

 

To say that the Bills could be a 6-5 team "if only this" or "only that" is fruitless. They are a 2-9 team. No matter how much you lament about how some "unlucky plays" caused the Bills to lose you don't acknowledge how the opposition is also subjected to the same "obstacle plays".

 

Wins and losses are practically meaningless........ That old Parcells adage about being what your record says is an overused meaningless cliche. That's for people who don't get football, the ones who can't think their way past the final score.

 

The Bills have been dreadful for almost a generation. That is reflected in their record. There isn't an excuse in the world I haven't heard as to why the Bills consistently lose. You and I have a fundamental difference that apparently won't be reconciled. For me it is about the won/loss record. For you it is about the "could have been" and "should have been". There is an axium that says it all: Excuses are for losers.

Edited December 1, 2010 by JohnC

[CosmicBills]

And I would counter that you are too focused on the W's and L's. This team is a few key plays from being 6-5. So if 4 plays went our way are we suddenly that much better a team? We make too many mistakes. That's not so much a lack of talent as a lack of focus.

 

Wins and losses are practically meaningless when judging individual players because winning is a team effort. Trent Edwards was dreadful. Some blamed his O-line that looked inept. But when Fitz steps in suddenly they play better. What changed? Did Fitz wave a magic wand and make the line better, or did Fitz's ability to read defenses and make plays suddenly give players with some talent better leadership?

 

Same with the WRs. With Edwards they were never open. Bad WRs we all thought. Now with Fitz not only are they open but we make plays downfield. Again what changed?

 

That old Parcells adage about being what your record says is an overused meaningless cliche. That's for people who don't get football, the ones who can't think their way past the final score. You have to consider why you are losing. You don't lose because you are 2-9 football team, you lose because some part of your team is not getting the job done. And if you can't focus on what needs fixing then you are just throwing darts at the problem.

 

PTR

The Bills have been ALMOST winning games for over a decade now. Almost doesn't cut it. Bad teams find ways to LOSE games -- which this team, yes, this 2010 team, has done repeatedly. Let's not sugar coat this. This is a BAD football team on both sides of the ball. There's some talent in spots, but overall this team does not have the players to compete and win in the rugged AFC East. They play hard. They're coached well. They just can't win games.

 

Fitz's play has shown this is a QB driven league. This is a passing league. He's an upgrade from what we've had the past few years, but he's an above average QB. Nothing more. I'm fine with him starting next season while the number 1 pick learns on the bench. But you simply cannot pass up drafting a Franchise QB if one's available when the Bills pick. Above all else, it's the most important position on the field and Fitz is NOT a franchise QB.

 

Sorry.

[JohnC]

The Bills have been ALMOST winning games for over a decade now. Almost doesn't cut it. Bad teams find ways to LOSE games -- which this team, yes, this 2010 team, has done repeatedly. Let's not sugar coat this. This is a BAD football team on both sides of the ball. There's some talent in spots, but overall this team does not have the players to compete and win in the rugged AFC East. They play hard. They're coached well. They just can't win games.

 

Fitz's play has shown this is a QB driven league. This is a passing league. He's an upgrade from what we've had the past few years, but he's an above average QB. Nothing more. I'm fine with him starting next season while the number 1 pick learns on the bench. But you simply cannot pass up drafting a Franchise QB if one's available when the Bills pick. Above all else, it's the most important position on the field and Fitz is NOT a franchise QB.

 

Sorry.

 

Don't ever apologize for not tolerating mediocrity, especially systemic mediocrity. There are too many desperate fans who want to believe that this team is on the verge of something special. It's not. The message they cheerfully repeat is the same message they have been recycling for the past decade. Why is it that even our very aged owner has enough sense to recognize and publicly state that there is no quick fix to right this very sunk ship?

 

When Nix took over the football operation he was very forthright about how he was going to approach the monumental task of rebuilding this bumbling franchise. He said he was going to do it primarily through the draft. His clearly stated philosophy was to draft his own players, develop them and then retain them. That certainly isn't a quick miracle fix process. It is a time consuming process. And it is the right way and the proven method to sustainable success.

 

The Bills are in the embryonic stage of this process. Those who think that we are only a year or two away from prominence don't understand what is going on.