Marcell Dareus and Nick Fairley playing right now

[Thoner7]

Why? We need one desparately. Nick Fairley's true position is a 3/4 defensive end at the next level in the Richard Semour mold. He's an unbelievable pass rusher and you don't waste those special guys in the middle of a 4/3 defensive line. The Bills would be stupid to pass on that guy.

I agree with what you say althought I dont think anyone is wasted in a 4-3.

 

Fairley v Marcell was a good matchup. One thing I took away from the game (which I watched in a small window on my comp at work ) is that Marcell was very quick and had good feet, but honestly reminded me of Maybin. Running stunts and looping and runnign free he was great, but once he was engaged with an OL he was done. I didnt watch the whole game obviously but when I did see him get locked up he didnt shed a single block - which is exactly what i said about Maybin 2 years ago. Fairley on the other had wasnt as fast running around out there but he just ran straight through defenders blowing up 2 and sometimes even 3 blockers. He played more like Suh did last year. He is really mean and at 6'5'' with his long arms, he will likely be gone if we keep winning.

 

So, you're basing your opinion on an "assessment" made by a 14 year old, self-proclaimed "NFL Draft Scout." Well though out.

 

 

 

I acknowledge that, by general rule, it is risky to spend a high first round draft pick on a player with a "short resume." It is preferable to draft players who have demonstrated, consistently, that they are worthy of such a huge investment in money and resources. I doubt, however, that this will hurt Quinn's draft position. I suspect that after the combine he will pretty much assured himself as a top 5 draft pick.

 

I'm not completely sold on Quinn. I also really like Fairley and Dareus...amongst other prospects. I'm just tired of hearing some people say that we should not even consider Quinn based on his body of work. That's silly. We need to weigh all of our options.

 

FWIW, Dez Bryant, a top 5 rated player in this last years draft, fell into the late 20s bc of charactor concerns and getting suspended. He had more film on him than Quinn does. Its not too much of a stretch to imagine Quinn falling into the 30s or even the 2nd round. Maybe we could add him then?

[mob16151]

I agree with what you say althought I dont think anyone is wasted in a 4-3.

 

Fairley v Marcell was a good matchup. One thing I took away from the game (which I watched in a small window on my comp at work ) is that Marcell was very quick and had good feet, but honestly reminded me of Maybin. Running stunts and looping and runnign free he was great, but once he was engaged with an OL he was done. I didnt watch the whole game obviously but when I did see him get locked up he didnt shed a single block - which is exactly what i said about Maybin 2 years ago. Fairley on the other had wasnt as fast running around out there but he just ran straight through defenders blowing up 2 and sometimes even 3 blockers. He played more like Suh did last year. He is really mean and at 6'5'' with his long arms, he will likely be gone if we keep winning.

 

Why are we comparing Dareus to Maybin. Dareus is a 6 foot 3 280 pound 3-4 DE prospect. Maybin was 6-2 240 OLB prospect.Dareus's foot speed is very impressive considering his size, and strength. As to him shedding blockers, that's not his role usually in sabans defense. Dareus is supposed to stand up blockers not shed them.

 

Right now IMO Darius is the best D line prospect since Ngata. I think he's that good.

 

Edit: Dareus is actually playing at 306 pounds this season.

Edited November 27, 2010 by mob16151

[Bill from NYC]

I don't think drafting Spiller was a luxury pick and I wouldn't think taking the BPA if it's a CB is "luxury" pick

 

 

Your screen name is fitting for a comment as idiotic as the above.

[Thoner7]

Why are we comparing Dareus to Maybin. Dareus is a 6 foot 3 280 pound 3-4 DE prospect. Maybin was 6-2 240 OLB prospect.Dareus's foot speed is very impressive considering his size, and strength. As to him shedding blockers, that's not his role usually in sabans defense. Dareus is supposed to stand up blockers not shed them.

 

Right now IMO Darius is the best D line prospect since Ngata. I think he's that good.

 

Edit: Dareus is actually playing at 306 pounds this season.

 

I wasnt comparing, I said reminded me of.

 

I agree his foot speed is very very impressive. But why would you not want a Dlineman to shred a blocker? I understand the tie up blockers and keeping your gaps mentality but thats nto what he was doing when I was watching. IHe was stunting as a pass rusher, would get picked up by a G, and that was it - no more pass rush. I think Fairley is a better fit for us.

Edited November 27, 2010 by Thoner7

[bizell]

Nick Fairley's burst, strength, and agility look awfully impressive. He looks like he's going to be a difference maker at the next level.

[Thoner7]

I caught most of the Clemson SC game tonight, first time I saw the Dewuan Bowers live - what a monster. He looks like Peppers out there. He is a force vrs the run and gets good pressure. I pulled up some Youtube video of him vrs GT this year where he was in a 2 point stance, and played the run extremely well again. He is such a freak I bet he could play 34 DE or OLB, or 4-3 DE. I will dream of this guy replacing Kelsay untill the draft. With Bowers, Fairley, and Marcells, we may see 3 of the top 4 guys in the draft being front 7 guys. They are all underclassmen and I hope they come out.

Edited November 28, 2010 by Thoner7

[Johnny Hammersticks]

Its not too much of a stretch to imagine Quinn falling into the 30s or even the 2nd round. Maybe we could add him then?

 

I would cream my shorts if Quinn fell to our pick in the second round. It's not going to happen, but one can only hope

[KOKBILLS]

Better yet...watch the you tube video of him man-handling Anthony Castonso, one of the highest rated LT prospects in this years draft.

 

I'd rather have Fairley based on what I've seen of him, especially these last few weeks...That guy is a freaking beast...But if you can watch that tape of Quinn and not come out impressed, then you just don't know a Football Player when you see one...He's disruptive as hell, and even when he does not get there he's effecting the QB's throws...I see a little Bruce in that Kid...The way he moves in space and knifes the double-team...Who knows how raw he's going to be coming in but he's got more talent in his pinky than Maybin has total...I would not mind at all if The Bills ended up with Quinn...

[stony]

I caught most of the Clemson SC game tonight, first time I saw the Dewuan Bowers live - what a monster. He looks like Peppers out there. He is a force vrs the run and gets good pressure. I pulled up some Youtube video of him vrs GT this year where he was in a 2 point stance, and played the run extremely well again. He is such a freak I bet he could Eplay 34 DE or OLB, or 4-3 D. I will dream of this guy replacing Kelsay untill the draft. With Bowers, Fairley, and Marcells, we may see 3 of the top 4 guys in the draft being front 7 guys. They are all underclassmen and I hope they come out.

 

He's 6'5" 280ish. He is a straight DE despite whatever base defense you run. He's more suited to play a Mario Williams type in a 4-3, but could manage in a 3-4. I just don't see a 280+ guy dropping back in coverage.

[Koufax]

I like Fairley, and I don't buy the don't take a 3-4 DE that high stuff.

 

I would love if our first pick is a franchise QB or an impact front 7 guy, but I still think that you need to take the best player available pick after pick, year after year to build a team. Needs change faster than players get on the field. Talent is talent, and add as much of it to your team every draft and you will like the outcome.

 

I would of course be disappointed if we take a DB, but realistically if the DB is by far the best player available, I still think it is the right decision. Very few places are draft picks going to make huge impacts as rookies, and you are drafting a 5/6 year contribution. Just say no to inferior players because you need them right now.

 

However it also is true that it is a crap shoot and player grades can be pretty similar, so in that case I don't mind getting the positions we think will help us more (by benching a weaker link on our team for the new guy, we add more immediate value), but I hope with the #5 pick or whatever we get, we pick the best football player available (or one of several similarly good players), evaluating on what he will contribute to the Bills from 2011 through 2016, and not based on what position of ours sucks the most in 2010.

[Kelly the Dog]

I would of course be disappointed if we take a DB, but realistically if the DB is by far the best player available, I still think it is the right decision. Very few places are draft picks going to make huge impacts as rookies, and you are drafting a 5/6 year contribution. Just say no to inferior players because you need them right now.

 

However it also is true that it is a crap shoot and player grades can be pretty similar, so in that case I don't mind getting the positions we think will help us more (by benching a weaker link on our team for the new guy, we add more immediate value), but I hope with the #5 pick or whatever we get, we pick the best football player available (or one of several similarly good players), evaluating on what he will contribute to the Bills from 2011 through 2016, and not based on what position of ours sucks the most in 2010.

The operative phrase in your post is by far, "BY FAR". Only if the BPA is by far better than the BPA at a position of need do you take him. If they are rated even semi close, usually any team will take the BPA at position of need.

[John from Riverside]

Oh please...stop whining about the "too risky, short resume" bull crap. Just because the front office whiffed on Maybin, a player with similar risk factors, does not mean that Quinn will also be a bust. Maybin is too small and too weak to play OLB in the 3-4, and was a TERRIBLE draft choice. Quinn is 6-5, 270 lbs., and was clocked at 4.38 seconds in the 40 yard dash!! The guy is a once-in-a-decade prospect...an absolute freak.

 

Watch some film on Quinn, and then formulate your own opinion. Don't dismiss him as a possible draft pick just because of the Maybin debacle.

 

Better yet...watch the you tube video of him man-handling Anthony Castonso, one of the highest rated LT prospects in this years draft.

 

 

While him not having a full body of College work might not be a reason for US to dismiss him......it might be to Nix who specifically said that he likes his draft picks to show some consistant work over years in college.

[mob16151]

While him not having a full body of College work might not be a reason for US to dismiss him......it might be to Nix who specifically said that he likes his draft picks to show some consistant work over years in college.

 

Which could also hurt our chances of taking Fairley(if you like him) because this has been far and away his best year. He hasnt really shown much the rest of his college career, kind of like the Dan Williams situationlast season.

Edited November 28, 2010 by mob16151

[Bill from NYC]

Bill, just out of curiosity,(and I don't mean that in a cynical sense), in retrospect who would you have picked other than Spiller? I can live with saying it was a luxury pick if there was an absolute necessity that the Bills missed on. I could see maybe Brandon Graham being that guy, but looking down the rest of the list, I'm not sure who is having such a great rookie year that Spiller is seen as a luxury.

 

I wanted McClain, but once he was gone I was hoping for Graham. It would have been great as well to trade down and take Bulaga. There was no need to rush to the podium and grab a small, part time player, unless perhaps the goal was non-football related.

[Thoner7]

He's 6'5" 280ish. He is a straight DE despite whatever base defense you run. He's more suited to play a Mario Williams type in a 4-3, but could manage in a 3-4. I just don't see a 280+ guy dropping back in coverage.

 

I know he has great size but he is also athletic as hell. I mentioned the GT youtube video I watched because he was playing in a 2 point stance - like an OLB would. I think he could excell at 34 end or olb, but fits best as a 4-3 end. All I would want is him rushing the passer and playing the run - he was amazing vrs the run last night. I only saw parts of one game (last night) but I could see the Panthers taking this guy to replace Peppers if they wanted to try out Clausen more. He is a Carolina guy after all.

 

I like Fairley, and I don't buy the don't take a 3-4 DE that high stuff.

 

I would love if our first pick is a franchise QB or an impact front 7 guy, but I still think that you need to take the best player available pick after pick, year after year to build a team. Needs change faster than players get on the field. Talent is talent, and add as much of it to your team every draft and you will like the outcome.

 

I would of course be disappointed if we take a DB, but realistically if the DB is by far the best player available, I still think it is the right decision. Very few places are draft picks going to make huge impacts as rookies, and you are drafting a 5/6 year contribution. Just say no to inferior players because you need them right now.

 

However it also is true that it is a crap shoot and player grades can be pretty similar, so in that case I don't mind getting the positions we think will help us more (by benching a weaker link on our team for the new guy, we add more immediate value), but I hope with the #5 pick or whatever we get, we pick the best football player available (or one of several similarly good players), evaluating on what he will contribute to the Bills from 2011 through 2016, and not based on what position of ours sucks the most in 2010.

 

 

I think there is a huge flaw in the logic of "BPA regardless" and that is the scouts ranking them. These grades players get are all peoples opinions, like ranking the hottest girl in high school 1-10 - you can never be certain a player will be that good. I bet the 9ers are pissed they traded up for Davis when they could of sit tight and taken Bulaga.

 

I think its horribly trivial and naive to think that a teams scouting department is that icredible at their jobs to rank players 1-300 in the exact order of whos best to whos worst. OK so they ranked a CB 4th best overall, and the top DLineman left is 10th. Id take the 10th overall player bc there is a very large chance that the 10th overall DL is actually better than the 4th and my scouts screwed up. Not every guy ranks girls the same and not every scout ranks players the same. The Bills scouts had Spiller as BPA- yet we didnt need a RB and our team could have been better with another position. Well, isnt there a posibility SPiller will pan out NOT to be the BPA? Yes, there is that chance. So, why feel the need to be tied into the "BPA ragardless mantality"?

 

I think a much smarter way to gauge prospects would be to have a tiered system with groups of players rather than a list. That way, when i gets to your pick, you have a group of players who are all ranked the same and can take the best one for your team.

 

Last year, the "Super Elite" guys would have likely been Bradford, Suh, McCoy, and Berry. Put them in your top tier. If any of them are still available when we pick at 9, draft one regardless of position - you always take a guy from your highest tier. The next level down of players would have likely included T WIlliams, Okung, Spiller, D. Bryant, Bulaga, Iupati, Gresham, among others. They could be in the 2nd tier- essentailly all having the same grade as the bests and their position. When its yoru pick, take who you think will help the team the most. Take a guy from your highest tier available and take the positions that help your team the ebst.

Edited November 28, 2010 by Thoner7

[1B4IDie]

I know he has great size but he is also athletic as hell. I mentioned the GT youtube video I watched because he was playing in a 2 point stance - like an OLB would. I think he could excell at 34 end or olb, but fits best as a 4-3 end. All I would want is him rushing the passer and playing the run - he was amazing vrs the run last night. I only saw parts of one game (last night) but I could see the Panthers taking this guy to replace Peppers if they wanted to try out Clausen more. He is a Carolina guy after all.

 

 

 

 

I think there is a huge flaw in the logic of "BPA regardless" and that is the scouts ranking them. These grades players get are all peoples opinions, like ranking the hottest girl in high school 1-10 - you can never be certain a player will be that good.

 

I think its horribly trivial and naive to think that a teams scouting department is that icredible at their jobs to rank players 1-300 in the exact order of whos best to whos worst. OK so they ranked a CB 4th best overall, and the top DLineman left is 10th. Id take the 10th overall player bc there is a very large chance that the 10th overall DL is actually better than the 4th and my scouts screwed up. Not every guy ranks girls the same and not every scout ranks players the same. The Bills scouts had Spiller as BPA- yet we didnt need a RB and our team could have been better with another position. Well, isnt there a posibility SPiller will pan out NOT to be the BPA? Yes, there is that chance. So, why feel the need to be tied into the "BPA ragardless mantality"?

 

I think a much smarter way to gauge prospects would be to have a tiered system with groups of players rather than a list. That way, when i gets to your pick, you have a group of players who are all ranked the same and can take the best one for your team.

 

Last year, the "Super Elite" guys would have likely been Bradford, Suh, McCoy, and Berry. Put them in your top tier. If any of them are still available when we pick at 9, draft one regardless of position - you always take a guy from your highest tier. The next level down of players would have likely included T WIlliams, Okung, Spiller, D. Bryant, Bulaga, Iupati, Gresham, among others. They could be in the 2nd tier- essentailly all having the same grade as the bests and their position. When its yoru pick, take who you think will help the team the most. Take a guy from your highest tier available and take the positions that help your team the ebst.

So use a tiered BPA like in Fantasy Football?

The truth is no one knows what system the Bills use or how they rank thier players.

Remember the waterbug comment it appeared from the outside looking in that the new regime wanted Spiller leading up to the draft.

I doubt it's as simple as a straight list of Players, there are most likely in-depth grades of each player.

The Bills probably thought that Spiller was a top 3 player. They got him at 9.

Edited November 28, 2010 by Why So Serious?

[bkc]

They're both making big plays in this game but Fairley is making bigger plays.

That excessive celebration penalty was BS.

Fairley had a dirty rep but this guy is stepping up big time.

One of these guy could be the Bills first round pick.

 

Also please quit the Robert Quinn talk he is too risky with too short of a resume to take in the first round.

 

 

I was really impressed with fairley big time difference maker

[mackenzie45220]

Or watch these clips and read this assessment which I agree with :

http://player-rater.blogspot.com/2010/09/robert-quinn-2011-draft-scouting-report.html

 

At first glance, his stats appear to be great; 52 tackles, 11 sacks Sophomore year. But let's take a closer look. Let's divide the stats from all of the North Carolina games last year based on the strength of the teams Quinn played against. Against The Citadel, East Carolina, Virginia, Georgia Southern, Duke, Boston College, and North Carolina State (7 games), he got ALL of his 11 sacks and 33 of his tackles; against Virginia Tech, Pittsburgh, Florida State, Miami, Connecticut, and Georgia Tech (6 games), he got a mere 19 tackles and 0 sacks! That is a staggering dispersion of stats between teams he played! He made absolutely no impact in games against good teams, yet he dominated against bad teams.

 

I'm the guy that made the site Why so Serious? referenced. And I got to say, I think Robert Quinn would be a bad move for the Bills. Again, he's overrated to start with, but he doesn't really have a natural fit anywhere in a 3-4 defense. I love Fairley, but he isn't well suited for 3-4 end either. I'd go Da'Quan Bowers. All that talk earlier in this forum about him being an outside linebacker in a 3-4 is ridiculous (though he may be athletic enough, his 40lbs of excess bulk in comparison to other 3-4 outside linebackers would give him virtually no advantage at the position). But he will probably dominate at 3-4 end and he's one of the greatest physical specimens I have ever seen. There is resemblance to Julius Peppers (who would be just as good or better in a 3-4), and Bowers would be a great pick for the Bills.

[NoSaint]

I like both of em' but really can't see taking a 3-4 DE in the top 10. Now, were we to revert back to the 4-3 full time like we have been playing a lot more of lately I could absolutely see Fairly next to Kyle "the truth" Williams on a 4 man line! The question is: are the Bills hell bent on going to a 3-4 no matter what?.............

 

I agree and I think the most appealing thing is the prospect of him going as a 34 de or 43 dt is he helps the defense become versatile. It's something that a lot of good defenses are working on - patriots and saints are two that switch frequently even during a singular game, or drive. You could have a Dline consisting of Edwards, fairley, Williams, troupe, Kelsey etc....

 

34

Williams-troupe-fairley

Edwards-williams-fairley

 

43

Edwards-fairley-Williams-kelsey (with troupe to spell either dt)

 

Add in another de/dt tweener (hargrove has played the role great here in new orleans - if only CB didnt talk smack on his way out the door.... Regardless, that type for depth) and a good olb - maybe one that can put his hand in the dirt on a 4 man line sometimes and the defense looks much better and is very versatile.

Edited November 29, 2010 by NoSaint

[NoSaint]

I didn't even think about carrington.... Could be another building block

 

Carrington-Williams-Fairley

 

Doesn't look terrible for the longterm rebuild....