Should Nix Trade Spiller?

[Armchair GM]

A Rochester D&C article alluded that Nix/Gailey drafted Spiller because they didn't realize how good Fred Jackson is (I presume they knew Lynch was going to go). Assuming we have more need positions than draft or FA signings can fill, would it make sense to trade Spiller? Naturally, it would have to be the right deal, but considering we need a DT, OT, LB, TE, QB (franchise, that is), it might be a viable option. If we could get a #1 or #2 pick, or perhaps a player for player swap for one of the need positions, it might get us one step closer to playoffs in 2011. Trading for a quality TE would help the offense immensely.

 

We have a winner folks...!!! The most stupid post of the year goes to......

[Buffalo Billy]

Look, I understand that Ralph paid out a huge signing bonus when he drafted Spiller to play at a position at which we were deep. I also understand that his production would not invite trade offers to even almost approach the #9 that was wasted on a part time running back.

 

As for RT, you do see that the Buffalo Bills football team is 2-8, no? Our RTs are nobodies who have been beaten half to death, penalized, and plucked off practice squads. Am I wrong?

 

Sometimes I think that some Bills Fans have been watching poor line play for SOOOO long that they lost sight of just how much it means.

The Bills, along with 2 of their divisional opponents, play in the elements. Sometimes passing is close to impossible. They will always need to be a strong, physical team to win football games. The Levy/Jauron mentality of concentrating on little shrimps was a dismal failure. Surely you noticed.

 

Again, the OP didn't do a great job in terms of voicing his frustration imo. However, to think that we are even close to being OK at the OT position is equally over the top.

 

Jmo.

Ya our RTs are the real reason we allowed 30+ points 5 games in a row. And they're responsible for Edwards starting the first couple games.

[Bill from NYC]

Ya our RTs are the real reason we allowed 30+ points 5 games in a row.

 

They share some of the responsibility.

After the Spiller pick, Nix concentrated on defense. The defense overall is therefore young and spotty. Good offensive tackles would mean a better running game and keep the suspect defense off the field, thus shortening the game by running the football and using the clock.

 

My guess/hope is that in 2011, Nix/Gailey will give Troup and Carrington more of a chance to show what they can do, and try to improve the offense. To do so, they absolutely must improve at OT.

[Dr. K]

Idiocy.

[Canadian Bills Fan]

Geez relax Spiller is a rookie who is second on the depth chart behind a solid starter. There is no rush here. Look at Steve Johnson. I know he wasnt a 1st round pick but look at his production now after a few years.

 

Spiller will be great given time. He still needs to work on his pass blocking.

 

I am not worried at all. I think by the time Jackson is done in Buffalo (or is on the downside of his career) Spiller will be ready to go and step in without any problems

Edited November 26, 2010 by figoferreira

[C-zone Umpa]

A Rochester D&C article alluded that Nix/Gailey drafted Spiller because they didn't realize how good Fred Jackson is (I presume they knew Lynch was going to go). Assuming we have more need positions than draft or FA signings can fill, would it make sense to trade Spiller? Naturally, it would have to be the right deal, but considering we need a DT, OT, LB, TE, QB (franchise, that is), it might be a viable option. If we could get a #1 or #2 pick, or perhaps a player for player swap for one of the need positions, it might get us one step closer to playoffs in 2011. Trading for a quality TE would help the offense immensely.

 

 

NO NO & NO................we just signed a local kid off the streets to play RB because of the injuries. Why in God's name would we trade Spiller???

[Nanker]

Bills fans will get a first hand look this weekend at a franchise that practices a methodology in drafting that perennially fields a winning team that is tough on both sides of the ball. I think Nix espouses a similar philosophy, but actions speak louder than words. I'm grudgingly giving him a mulligan for his Spiller pick. It was his first as an NFL GM, and perhaps he had a lapse of his better judgement (and an anxious owner and PR man in the FO wanting to bring some "excitement" to put fannies in the seats at The Ralph), and went with the shinny-thing pop-tart choice.

 

The balance of his picks were for the most part wide-bodied tough football players. Marcus Easley was an exception and Nix was clear about the choice going against his philosophy of picking "one-year-wonders". If the kid didn't get hurt, he'd have had a decent shot to make the squad.

 

 

No one, and I mean no one (OK, except R. Rich and maybe a couple of others) has hammered the FO about their poor drafting on the OL than Bill from NYC. Many newer posters could learn a lot about football by listening to him which would enable them to offer up something a bit more edifying than the gibberish that's spewed about here daily.

 

Anyone that fancies themselves a fan of The Bills and knows NFL football knew going into this season that there was no miraculous path to the playoffs for this year's squad. There was too much broken, too little talent and a new set of coaches and new schemes to install. Rome wasn't built in a day. But stay tuned. The Romans are coming to town this weekend.

[The Avenger]

Ever think about the salary cap here?

 

Even if everyone thought that this was a great idea (they don't) and even if the Bills could get something of great value for their latest 1st round pick (they can't), this isn't Madden football or makinga trade with a guy in your fantasy league.

 

Through the convoluted financing called the slary cap the Bills would take a big hit - if a player is traded the unamortized bonus (the non salary part) that remains for the life of the contract is immediately accelerated to that year's salary cap. So, you have a higly paid rookie with a big contract and that contract is in its first year - plenty of bonus left on it that would instantly count toward the cap. Even if the Bills could get Peyton Manning for Spiller it might be tough to do - this is one of the reasons you see so few trades of big dollar players unless they are at the end of those big contracts.....

[shoretalk]

A Rochester D&C article alluded that Nix/Gailey drafted Spiller because they didn't realize how good Fred Jackson is (I presume they knew Lynch was going to go). Assuming we have more need positions than draft or FA signings can fill, would it make sense to trade Spiller? Naturally, it would have to be the right deal, but considering we need a DT, OT, LB, TE, QB (franchise, that is), it might be a viable option. If we could get a #1 or #2 pick, or perhaps a player for player swap for one of the need positions, it might get us one step closer to playoffs in 2011. Trading for a quality TE would help the offense immensely.

Clearly you had too much turkey because there is a benefit having two quality backs especially one that provides the options that Spiller gives us.

 

I love Fred Jackson and was ticked when he wasn't our #1 at the start of the season but based on what 'The Beast' has done in Seattle, I am glad we showcased him because we probably obtained the best deal possible for him.

 

As we see Gailey's offensive mind start to become reality on the field it's clear having someone like Spiller in our arsenal only bodes well for the offense. Just pause for a moment and think about these offensive weapons that now are providing benefits:

 

Stevie Johnson and Lee Evans as our starting WR's

 

The Following Group of now proven WR's who can stretch the field, catch the ball in tough situations, and be assets on the field (Who couldn't be excited by what Donald Jones is showing?):

 

Roscoe Parrish

 

David Nelson

 

Donald Jones

 

And, waiting in the wings ...

 

Marcus Easley

 

Roosevelt Naaman

 

Having Fred Jackson is a must but having just Fred Jackson leaves a gap if he gets hurt ... add in Spiller who can split out and once he 'learns' the NFL system he too will become dangerous

 

I am feeling good about the entire offense ... now that GRAMPS has been cut these new young linemen have been holding their own and Bell keeps looking good at LT.

 

So ... on to the linebacking group that must be fixed.

[CardinalScotts]

+++++++++++++++++++++++1

Fred will be 32 next year

[bigc14120]

A Rochester D&C article alluded that Nix/Gailey drafted Spiller because they didn't realize how good Fred Jackson is (I presume they knew Lynch was going to go). Assuming we have more need positions than draft or FA signings can fill, would it make sense to trade Spiller? Naturally, it would have to be the right deal, but considering we need a DT, OT, LB, TE, QB (franchise, that is), it might be a viable option. If we could get a #1 or #2 pick, or perhaps a player for player swap for one of the need positions, it might get us one step closer to playoffs in 2011. Trading for a quality TE would help the offense immensely.

This is crazy talk...right now, think of years ahead with Spiller/Jackson having an identity like ThurmanThomas/Kenny Davis. It take (at least) two....

[T master]

That is just plain stupid !!! That would be something Donahoe would have done back in the day when he was running the Bills . like when he spent 2 #1 picks for QB's one to new england for Bledsoe and moving up for Losman !

 

Set the team back to where it is today & Nix & Gailey started to fix it & you want to go backwards , man i don't get it !!

[Nanker]

Fred will be 32 next year

 

No way.

[Yard Monkey]

Ever think about the salary cap here?

 

Even if everyone thought that this was a great idea (they don't) and even if the Bills could get something of great value for their latest 1st round pick (they can't), this isn't Madden football or makinga trade with a guy in your fantasy league.

 

Through the convoluted financing called the slary cap the Bills would take a big hit - if a player is traded the unamortized bonus (the non salary part) that remains for the life of the contract is immediately accelerated to that year's salary cap. So, you have a higly paid rookie with a big contract and that contract is in its first year - plenty of bonus left on it that would instantly count toward the cap. Even if the Bills could get Peyton Manning for Spiller it might be tough to do - this is one of the reasons you see so few trades of big dollar players unless they are at the end of those big contracts.....

Maybe I shouldn't be, but I'm shocked it took until the 4th page for someone to mention this. Forget all of the other rational reasons why trading Spiller is dumb, this is, first and foremost, the main reason why this would never be done!

 

Yo OP / FITZ, you think your a great GM in your own mind, but maybe you should take a course in Salary Cap 101. They have this thing called a "salary cap" in the NFL....learn it, understand it before you take that GM job!

Edited November 26, 2010 by Yard Monkey

[McBeane]

Ever think about the salary cap here?

 

Even if everyone thought that this was a great idea (they don't) and even if the Bills could get something of great value for their latest 1st round pick (they can't), this isn't Madden football or makinga trade with a guy in your fantasy league.

 

Through the convoluted financing called the slary cap the Bills would take a big hit - if a player is traded the unamortized bonus (the non salary part) that remains for the life of the contract is immediately accelerated to that year's salary cap. So, you have a higly paid rookie with a big contract and that contract is in its first year - plenty of bonus left on it that would instantly count toward the cap. Even if the Bills could get Peyton Manning for Spiller it might be tough to do - this is one of the reasons you see so few trades of big dollar players unless they are at the end of those big contracts.....

 

Come on people, I know you are smarter than this... There is NO salary cap this year. Have you been living under a rock?

[Thoner7]

It seems that everyone seems to be *assuming* Spiller is/is going to be some great RB – where is that notion coming from? He has looked very average this year, and been outperformed by Lynch and Jackson – one of which was just determined to be worth a 4th round pick. Spillers speed no longer gives him the crazy advantage it did in college. He is not a strong enough runner to bounce out of tackles, he is a dancer and he tries to bounce too much outside. I don’t see how he will ever be able to grind out yardage at the end of a game. As a returner McKelvin has been out producing him by a fairly wide margin – I wouldn’t put Spiller back there when he is back from injury. I am upset about this guy, but I think that stems from the Bills FO likely being so surprised in what has transpired when I and others saw this coming from a mile away.

[DFITZ1]

The bills in the past 3 seasons drafted wood and levitre, replaced a horrific center with a servicable one, and drafted troup and carrington, two DLs.

 

But yea, they arent trying to improve the trenches.

 

They're called facts. Use them.

 

Zu man: The trenches have 2 sides. Yes, I am aware that drafting Wood and Levitre helped; however, that got cancelled by downgrading the tackles (at least at the start of this year - play has shown improvement). However, on the d side, the rebuilding fell behind and DE and LB were clearly critical needs at the 2010 draft.

 

Also - it may not have been clear, but my original intent was to get a trade where we traded a "player of the future at RB for a player of the future at a more critical need. It's nothing more than a brainstorming idea. If a good deal is out there perhaps it can be taken, if not then we don't make the deal, that simple. I did not insinuate we just get rid of Spiller for whatever we could get. Even I agree that would be crazy (just like the paid OBD guys who ignored critical needs throughout the 20-aughts).

Edited November 26, 2010 by DFITZ1

[Billy in 4C]

It seems that everyone seems to be *assuming* Spiller is/is going to be some great RB – where is that notion coming from? He has looked very average this year, and been outperformed by Lynch and Jackson – one of which was just determined to be worth a 4th round pick. Spillers speed no longer gives him the crazy advantage it did in college. He is not a strong enough runner to bounce out of tackles, he is a dancer and he tries to bounce too much outside. I don’t see how he will ever be able to grind out yardage at the end of a game. As a returner McKelvin has been out producing him by a fairly wide margin – I wouldn’t put Spiller back there when he is back from injury. I am upset about this guy, but I think that stems from the Bills FO likely being so surprised in what has transpired when I and others saw this coming from a mile away.

 

For all the spiller haters...

 

He is the best athelete on the team. Get him a solid RT and TE and he will be able to bust it outside. He is not an inside runner. Get him the ball in space - which we clearly can't figure out how to do. Until they find a way to do this or give him touches in the slot, he's going to be an average RB. When was the last time we ran an effective screen?

 

Spiller was the #1 rated athelete coming out of highschool, he's was the #1 athelete coming out of college. He will get there.

 

Outperformed by Lynch/Jackson? First, they are both pro-bowl caliber players, so expecting a rookie to immediately outplay them would be foolish. Second, their #s aren't that much different.

 

Spiller (4.0 yards per rush, 4.7 per pass)

Lynch (3.5 per rush, 6.8 per pass.)

Jackson (4.4 per rush, 3.7 per pass)

[Thoner7]

For all the spiller haters...

 

He is the best athelete on the team. Get him a solid RT and TE and he will be able to bust it outside. He is not an inside runner. Get him the ball in space - which we clearly can't figure out how to do. Until they find a way to do this or give him touches in the slot, he's going to be an average RB. When was the last time we ran an effective screen?

 

Spiller was the #1 rated athelete coming out of highschool, he's was the #1 athelete coming out of college. He will get there.

 

Outperformed by Lynch/Jackson? First, they are both pro-bowl caliber players, so expecting a rookie to immediately outplay them would be foolish. Second, their #s aren't that much different.

 

Spiller (4.0 yards per rush, 4.7 per pass)

Lynch (3.5 per rush, 6.8 per pass.)

Jackson (4.4 per rush, 3.7 per pass)

 

He is the best athlete on the team - I disagree. Evans, McKelvin, Mcgee they all share the same build, same or better 40 time, and are all more proven than Spiller. On top of that, I think Kyle Williams is the best athlete on the team. To be 300+ pounds at only 6'1'' and to be as quick and strong as he is is much more impressive than being one of 5-10 players ont eh team that can run a sub 4.4 forty. Wood or Levitre too. Beside, I don’t want great athletes I want football players, there are plenty of great athletes who stink at football. Whitner, better athlete, Jim Leonard, better safety - take your pick Al Davis.

 

Spiller needs a solid RT and TE to be good but Lynch and Jackson don’t? Doesn’t that make Spiller the worst of the three? He is not an inside runner - I know, which is why I don’t think he is ever going to be a very good RB. He needs to be used in space but we cant figure out how, yea I know, its the NFL, space is hard to come by, which is why you need RBs who are good in between the tackles. So now we have an awesome athlete at RB whose supposed talents we cannot seem to utilize, whether that’s Spillers fault or not is moot, because that’s the definition of a bad draft pick.

[DFITZ1]

The OP is being slammed for his perhaps poorly expressed frustration at the Bills wasting a #9 on Spiller, but your quote above is equally, if not more outrageous.

 

Bell doesn't completely suck anymore, and we have virtually no competent RT on the squad. Not a critical need? The Bills will never be strong until they have a high quality pair of OTs. Years ago they had a star studded defense and the lost because the OL was horrible. Since then, they have drafted primarily secondary players and running backs with their top selections. The result was a decade of losing football games.

 

I can understand the OP's frustration. Your comment however is mind boggling.

 

NYC Bill - I've been expousing the build the line mantra for years. Bills history clearly shows it. The 64-65 teams had HOF'r Shaw and Bemiller among others (I watched a replay of Cookie Gilchrist on a sweep in the '64 Championship game and Shaw went stride for stride 20-30 yards downfield with Gilchrist and kept the lane open), the classic case is the Electric Co saving OJ's career, Chuck Knox revamped the OL by the 1980 season where Joe Cribbs was became the franchise RB ('til he defected) and had the likes of Conrad Dobler to harass tacklers, and the OL for Kelly/Thomas/Reed was largely in place by '88. Since the mid 90's efforts to build a OL of the early 90's calibre have been weak.

 

 

I also agree that my original post needed better stating. It was mainly a brainstorming of how to address our critical needs. It wasn't meant as a dump Spiller move, rather a trade one "player of the future" for an equal (or better) "player of the future" at a more critical need. My guess is that many who flamed my OP equally more more flamed the pick for Spiller. But that's life on a message board.

 

Thank you for generating meaningful discussion, rather than flames.

Edited November 26, 2010 by DFITZ1