Fitzpatrick is the new Jay Fiedler

[PromoTheRobot]

Fiedler and Fitz were both Ivy league QB's that started in the NFL. That's about where the similarities end.

 

PTR

[Johnny Hammersticks]

Apparently you didn't get the memo... the NFL has enhanced the rules over the last 8 years. Clearly if Fiedler was playing in this era, he'd be putting up those kind of numbers on a weekly basis.

 

That's a bold and baseless assumption. Perhaps trends in overall passing statistics have improved over the past 8 years due to the rule changes, but to say that Jay Fiedler would be putting up those numbers in today's NFL is ridiculous. He was always a "game manager" type QB who rarely lit up the stat sheet with 300+ yards and 3-4 TD's.

[Bill from NYC]

Fiedler and Fitz were both Ivy league QB's that started in the NFL. That's about where the similarities end.

 

PTR

 

Was Fiedler smart and very mobile? Is Fitz? Is their arm strength similar?

 

Why do you post stuff like this?

[NoSaint]

Apparently you didn't get the memo... the NFL has enhanced the rules over the last 8 years. Clearly if Fiedler was playing in this era, he'd be putting up those kind of numbers on a weekly basis.

 

I'm not saying that the rule changes would make Fiedler into manning, but has anyone else noticed QBs around the league have numbers jump this year? Two players about on pace to give marino a run for his money? Something like 13-14 300 yard passers a couple weeks ago? I think especially the protecting of receivers the last month has boosted qb numbers while DBs adjust. Fiedler and fitz have very similar numbers, but they are playing near a decade apart, and things do change so it's not a 1:1 comparison. Heaven forbid it's mentioned. Definitely not the end all factor but it's a reason why comparisons are tough across time periods.

[Doc]

Fiedler and Fitz were both Ivy league QB's that started in the NFL. That's about where the similarities end.

They're both also white and 6'2" and 225#. They may also share the same favorite color.

[Albany,n.y.]

Seriously, where the hell is the original poster? You start a controversial thread like this, and you haven't made a single follow-up post to defend your ideas? Let's hear from ya. Tell us exactly why Fitz is the next Jay Fiedler.

 

We can wait until you are done carving the turkey

Here's why. I'm not a stat boy, I think QB stats are among the most misleading statistics in all of sports. Especially the QB rating which rewards QBs who have a better TE than RB in the red zone. What difference does it make among QBs who drive the team all the way down the field if with 1st & goal at the 3, one QB hands it off to his RB for a TD & one throws it to his 6'6" TE in the endzone. They both drove for TDs but the one with the big target in the end zone will look better on paper. Let's not even get into sack prone guys like RJ who had inflated QB stats from completion % to QB rating, or Trent Edwards who is too afraid to throw the ball into tight coverages, but can look better on paper than on the field. So any statistical comparison between the 2 is irrelevant to me.

Now that my rant on QB stats is over, here are the similarities.

Both are smart guys who were disregarded by the NFL. Fitz a 7th rounder, Fiedler a UFA.

Both bounced from team to team early in their careers.

Both were given a chance by proving themselves on the field after being thought of as nothing more than a smart career backup.

Both are guys who can win in the right situation, but will never carry a team on their backs.

Both always have to fight year to year to retain their starting job.

Both are viewed as a caretaker QB who their team will always be looking to upgrade from.

Both are overachievers who will battle to stay in their jobs.

Both (Fiedler for sure)can lead a team to the playoffs, but are unlikely to go all the way.

 

I don't understand why some people feel I trashed Fitzpatrick by the comparison. Fiedler, at this point put up a lot more Ws and if the 2011 Bills were to hit 10 wins, like Fiedler did with the Dolphins, most fans around here would be ectatic. I still judge QBs by Ws & not stats & Fitz has the potential to get the Bills Ws, like Fiedler did with the Dolphins, and keep the starter's job a few seasons. However, I don't feel Fitzpatrick is the guy to lead the Bills to the Super Bowl.

 

By the way, before this season started, the cut Fitz crowd was really on my case because I thought they were way off base thinking Fitz was going to be cut. If you think I bashed Fitz, go back to all the April-September posts where I defended the guy, including the one where I had him as the QB with the surest spot on the 53 man roster.

[Doc]

Here's why. I'm not a stat boy, I think QB stats are among the most misleading statistics in all of sports. Especially the QB rating which rewards QBs who have a better TE than RB in the red zone. What difference does it make among QBs who drive the team all the way down the field if with 1st & goal at the 3, one QB hands it off to his RB for a TD & one throws it to his 6'6" TE in the endzone. They both drove for TDs but the one with the big target in the end zone will look better on paper. Let's not even get into sack prone guys like RJ who had inflated QB stats from completion % to QB rating, or Trent Edwards who is too afraid to throw the ball into tight coverages, but can look better on paper than on the field. So any statistical comparison between the 2 is irrelevant to me.

Now that my rant on QB stats is over, here are the similarities.

Both are smart guys who were disregarded by the NFL. Fitz a 7th rounder, Fiedler a UFA.

Both bounced from team to team early in their careers.

Both were given a chance by proving themselves on the field after being thought of as nothing more than a smart career backup.

Both are guys who can win in the right situation, but will never carry a team on their backs.

Both always have to fight year to year to retain their starting job.

Both are viewed as a caretaker QB who their team will always be looking to upgrade from.

Both are overachievers who will battle to stay in their jobs.

Both (Fiedler for sure)can lead a team to the playoffs, but are unlikely to go all the way.

 

I don't understand why some people feel I trashed Fitzpatrick by the comparison. Fiedler, at this point put up a lot more Ws and if the 2011 Bills were to hit 10 wins, like Fiedler did with the Dolphins, most fans around here would be ectatic. I still judge QBs by Ws & not stats & Fitz has the potential to get the Bills Ws, like Fiedler did with the Dolphins, and keep the starter's job a few seasons. However, I don't feel Fitzpatrick is the guy to lead the Bills to the Super Bowl.

 

By the way, before this season started, the cut Fitz crowd was really on my case because I thought they were way off base thinking Fitz was going to be cut. If you think I bashed Fitz, go back to all the April-September posts where I defended the guy, including the one where I had him as the QB with the surest spot on the 53 man roster.

Outside of being unheralded white QB's from Ivy league schools who are both 6'2" and 225# and who bounced-around early in their careers, nothing more can be said about Fitzpatrick until his time in the NFL is done.

[DrFishfinder]

If you're looking at a parallel career, look no further than Jay Fiedler, another smart, overachieving Ivy Leaguer who managed to start for a few winning seasons with the Dolphins in the early 2000s.

Fiedler was able to lead the Dolphins to 3 double digit winning seasons, but was never looked at as a guy who could lead a team to a championship.

So the long term question is would you have been satisfied having Jay Fiedler as our QB in his prime? If the answer is yes, Fitz is your QB the next few years. If the answer is no, we have to search for someone better, but maybe not this year.

Now that we have virtually no chance at the #1 pick, I wouldn't spend our top pick on a QB. I think only Luck was worth unseating Fitzpatrick next year this early into our rebuild. We also cannot afford to take a shot on Mallet or any other 1st round QB when we have so many other needs and each of the other QBs have question marks.

So let's keep searching for the franchise QB to replace Fitzpatrick, but let's not reach in the 1st round this year with Luck out of the equation.

First, if I was Fitz, I would be highly insulted by this. Fiedler followed a hall of fame QB. Fitz followed a sink hole.

Second of all, if Mallett is available, get him. Whichever QB the Bills draft next year isn't going to start, anyway.

 

 

[steampunk]

Heya Albany. I don't think you're supporting your point about Fitzpatrick and Fielder.

 

Both are smart guys who were disregarded by the NFL. Fitz a 7th rounder, Fiedler a UFA.

Both bounced from team to team early in their careers.

Both were given a chance by proving themselves on the field after being thought of as nothing more than a smart career backup.

 

These 3 items are ultra-general. They would be true for hundreds of NFL players. Even if we reduced your "smart guys" to "true Ivy leaguers only" (eliminating all players from Stanford and Vanderbilt type schools), we'd still have a large group of people that you'd consider just like Fitz and Fielder.

 

Ivy leaguers are more likely to get drafted late. Players drafted late are more likely to get cut and more likely to bounce around teams and practice squads. (Guys like Maybin and Mcargo are still Bills only because of their round.)

 

The other 5 'similarities' you list are nothing but your negative opinions of Fitz, along with biased predictions of how his future might go. Also, the list is general enough that most people could quickly name 20 quarterbacks that fit the descriptions.

 

Both are guys who can win in the right situation, but will never carry a team on their backs.

Both always have to fight year to year to retain their starting job.

Both are viewed as a caretaker QB who their team will always be looking to upgrade from.

Both are overachievers who will battle to stay in their jobs.

Both (Fiedler for sure)can lead a team to the playoffs, but are unlikely to go all the way.

 

I don't understand why some people feel I trashed Fitzpatrick by the comparison.

 

Well sir, it reads like more of a Fitzpatrick trashing that a comparison. I guess the beef is with calling it one thing when it's really the other.

[NoSaint]

Outside of being unheralded white QB's from Ivy league schools who are both 6'2" and 225# and who bounced-around early in their careers, nothing more can be said about Fitzpatrick until his time in the NFL is done.

 

Who got their break under the tutelage of the same coach, have the sane td:int ratio, and completion percentage... Fiedler was a little better YPA and ran a little more. At the very least you don't think chan tries to coach certain traits into his qbs that they would share?

 

I'm not saying they are clones but the more I dig the more the comparison seems valid thus far. Fitz had a couple big games which might be a sign of things to come, or maybe just some good luck. Its impossible to tell but I can't think of a better reference point, and that can even be discounting the white ivy league references that keep being "the only thing in common." i know the comparing of two players can be silly but is there a better comparison that I am missing?

[Albany,n.y.]

Heya Albany. I don't think you're supporting your point about Fitzpatrick and Fielder.

 

 

 

These 3 items are ultra-general. They would be true for hundreds of NFL players. Even if we reduced your "smart guys" to "true Ivy leaguers only" (eliminating all players from Stanford and Vanderbilt type schools), we'd still have a large group of people that you'd consider just like Fitz and Fielder.

 

Ivy leaguers are more likely to get drafted late. Players drafted late are more likely to get cut and more likely to bounce around teams and practice squads. (Guys like Maybin and Mcargo are still Bills only because of their round.)

 

The other 5 'similarities' you list are nothing but your negative opinions of Fitz, along with biased predictions of how his future might go. Also, the list is general enough that most people could quickly name 20 quarterbacks that fit the descriptions.

 

 

 

If comparing a player with a guy who helped his team make the playoffs & won a division title is a trashing, we have very different viewpoints on how to trash a player. If you want to see my definition of trashing a player, read some of the posts before Fitzpatrick was named the starter by other posters. I'm not trashing Fitzpatrick, I'm just keeping it real.

It's amazing how Fitz has gone from a guy 1/4 of this board wanted cut to someone who now can be entrusted to lead this team to the promised land. The guy still has the same limitations.

I've been realistic about Fitzpatrick all along while others have had so many mood swings on the guy, they'd qualify for a Prozac prescription.

The guy is a great backup who can be a decent starter, but never an impact player. That's reality. If proper evaluation of a player's talents is your decription of a trashing, because you disagree with my assessment, which in the 2 years he's been here has been more spot on than most, so be it.

Edited November 26, 2010 by Albany,n.y.

[NoSaint]

If comparing a player with a guy who helped his team make the playoffs & won a division title is a trashing, we have very different viewpoints on how to trash a player. If you want to see my definition of trashing a player, read some of the posts before Fitzpatrick was named the starter by other posters. I'm not trashing Fitzpatrick, I'm just keeping it real.

It's amazing how Fitz has gone from a guy 1/4 of this board wanted cut to someone who now can be entrusted to lead this team to the promised land. The guy still has the same limitations.

I've been realistic about Fitzpatrick all along while others have had so many mood swings on the guy, they'd qualify for a Prozac prescription.

The guy is a great backup who can be a decent starter, but never an impact player. That's reality. If proper evaluation of a player's talents is your decription of a trashing, because you disagree with my assessment, which in the 2 years he's been here has been more spot on than most, so be it.

 

It's funny how you wouldve been a fitz homer if you posted that in august. Now here we are 8 starts later and I've seen Steve young and Brett favre comparisons.... Yet you and I are crazy. Fitz is good, but likely not great. That's not bashing. I think a team could win 10 games with him but let's be honest about the last two wins -- lions haven't won a road game in years and an injury depleted cincy. I'm hopeful that it was a clutch second half performance and not their secondary becoming too injured to play as the game progressed. Saying he's a playoff qb at this point is still pretty optimistic, because his record has yet to show that. I hope it will though.

[Kelly the Dog]

If comparing a player with a guy who helped his team make the playoffs & won a division title is a trashing, we have very different viewpoints on how to trash a player. If you want to see my definition of trashing a player, read some of the posts before Fitzpatrick was named the starter by other posters. I'm not trashing Fitzpatrick, I'm just keeping it real.

It's amazing how Fitz has gone from a guy 1/4 of this board wanted cut to someone who now can be entrusted to lead this team to the promised land. The guy still has the same limitations.

I've been realistic about Fitzpatrick all along while others have had so many mood swings on the guy, they'd qualify for a Prozac prescription.

The guy is a great backup who can be a decent starter, but never an impact player. That's reality. If proper evaluation of a player's talents is your decription of a trashing, because you disagree with my assessment, which in the 2 years he's been here has been more spot on than most, so be it.

The Fitz of this year, and the Fitz of his previous years in the league is a massive change. He's throwing TDs, he's making a ton of big plays, he's moving the ball, he's spreading it around, he's making third downs and third and long at a terrific percentage. Because of his connection with Gailey, he's transformed his game. He never really played like this before (and I'm sure someone will put up a game where he had good stats once in awhile to refute it but if you watch the games, the guy is playing a lot different, with much more confidence, throwing different kinds of passes, and getting different results.

 

IF -- and this is a big IF -- he keeps it up against the Steelers and the rest of the six games and throws 30 TDs and we look like an exciting, productive offense that scares defenses for the first time since half a Bledsoe, the guy is no longer the great back-up and decent starter, he's the bona fide starter and potential star. Drew Brees made that jump. Other players make that jump. We don't know for sure yet. Before this year, I felt the same as you. Even through the first few games I did, like when he overthrew Parrish in the NE game when we needed him to hit that pass. But over the last six weeks he has become a good QB and sometimes very good. It could be an aberration but it might not be. The jury is still out.

 

The next six games will tell. There is no FACT yet. Yours is an opinion about his limitations. It may turn out to be true. Eight games is a relatively small sample but I think 14 will give us a pretty good idea.

[Sisyphean Bills]

They're both also white and 6'2" and 225#. They may also share the same favorite color.

Both of their last names start with "Fi" and their first names both have the letters "a" and "y". How cool is that?

[SoFFacet]

Both are smart guys who were disregarded by the NFL. Fitz a 7th rounder, Fiedler a UFA.

Both bounced from team to team early in their careers.

Both were given a chance by proving themselves on the field after being thought of as nothing more than a smart career backup.

 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Both are guys who can win in the right situation, but will never carry a team on their backs.

Both are overachievers who will battle to stay in their jobs.

Both (Fiedler for sure)can lead a team to the playoffs, but are unlikely to go all the way.

 

Mixing facts and opinions to give the impression of listing only facts is a common fallacy. I took the liberty of dividing up your list of 'similarities' into the facts (top) and opinions (bottom).

[Sisyphean Bills]

The Fitz of this year, and the Fitz of his previous years in the league is a massive change. He's throwing TDs, he's making a ton of big plays, he's moving the ball, he's spreading it around, he's making third downs and third and long at a terrific percentage. Because of his connection with Gailey, he's transformed his game. He never really played like this before (and I'm sure someone will put up a game where he had good stats once in awhile to refute it but if you watch the games, the guy is playing a lot different, with much more confidence, throwing different kinds of passes, and getting different results.

 

IF -- and this is a big IF -- he keeps it up against the Steelers and the rest of the six games and throws 30 TDs and we look like an exciting, productive offense that scares defenses for the first time since half a Bledsoe, the guy is no longer the great back-up and decent starter, he's the bona fide starter and potential star. Drew Brees made that jump. Other players make that jump. We don't know for sure yet. Before this year, I felt the same as you. Even through the first few games I did, like when he overthrew Parrish in the NE game when we needed him to hit that pass. But over the last six weeks he has become a good QB and sometimes very good. It could be an aberration but it might not be. The jury is still out.

 

The next six games will tell. There is no FACT yet. Yours is an opinion about his limitations. It may turn out to be true. Eight games is a relatively small sample but I think 14 will give us a pretty good idea.

I can agree with most of this, but I think it'll take necessarily more than 1 not-quite complete season to establish Fitzpatrick as a franchise QB. He's going to have to be very good again next year and lead this team to a lot more wins. (Of course, having a legit defense is a huge part of wins and not under the QB's control, I know.) The offense cannot stagnate, but has to continue to mature and develop. In this division with the defensive coaches that work here, there is no way an offense can rest on yesterday's laurels and continue to be effective.

[BillsVet]

The Fitz of this year, and the Fitz of his previous years in the league is a massive change. He's throwing TDs, he's making a ton of big plays, he's moving the ball, he's spreading it around, he's making third downs and third and long at a terrific percentage. Because of his connection with Gailey, he's transformed his game. He never really played like this before (and I'm sure someone will put up a game where he had good stats once in awhile to refute it but if you watch the games, the guy is playing a lot different, with much more confidence, throwing different kinds of passes, and getting different results.

 

The next six games will tell. There is no FACT yet. Yours is an opinion about his limitations. It may turn out to be true. Eight games is a relatively small sample but I think 14 will give us a pretty good idea.

 

Accuracy and arm strength will always be Fitzpatrick's achilles heel. He has to be in a system that doesn't ask him to throw the deep out or passes more than 20 yards. The Dolphins did a great job in 2008 of game-planning to maximize Pennington's strengths without showing his weaker arm. A good offensive staff can work around a QB with less than ideal arm strength. But if a staff has a QB like Fitzpatrick needing to make throws downfield and not backing him up with a solid run game, the results generally aren't good.

 

It's true 8 games is a relatively small sample size, but the true indication of a QB's worth is after teams have had an off-season of film on him. If the guy can come back and play solid football, wonderful. The name of the game is whether a guy has potential and if he can live up to it. When I see a 6th year QB stare down a WR and throw into double coverage like he did on Sunday, I have my doubts. He's gritty, smart, and a good teammate from what I've seen. But in the NFL, you need talent to win regularly and yes, the jury is still out.

 

Just once I'd like to see Buffalo beat a division winner or playoff team convincingly. If the Bills do that Sunday and Fitzpatrick throws for 250 and 2 scores, well, I might begin to contemplate his long term potential as a NFL starting QB.

[Koufax]

Except Fiedler's career high for TD% as a starter was 4.8, and Fitz is 6.3 right now.

 

Except that Fiedler's yards per game high as a starter was 205, and Fitz is currently 245.

 

Except that Fiedler was a 1:1 TD:INT guy his whole career and Fitz is currently a 2:1.

 

Except that Fiedler never had a QB rating as high as Fitz's right now.

 

Except that all that happened as Fiedler took over for a team that had made the playoffs and won a playoff game the year before, and not the lowly struggling rebuilding Bills.

 

You could do the same if someone compared Fitz to Kurt Warner. And I don't think either comparison is a good one. But I would actually be quite happy with Fitz putting together a couple 10 win seasons in a row as the team rebuilds and finds and develops their QB in the next two drafts (whether Luck, Mallet, or somebody off our radar screen at the moment).

 

So I'm happy with Fitz being our QB right now, winning games for us, and allowing us not to rush/force the QB draft decision. I don't have any problem if he is our Kitna to Palmer or Brees to Rivers, and I think we do take a franchise QB whenever the opportunity presents itself. But Fitz has shown a lot and has six more games to show how much faith he deserves, and if we want to draft a QB not ready to start in the 2011 draft to learn behind him, or whether we want to wait and draft someone in 2012, or whether we want to spend a top five pick in the next draft, etc.

 

I don't see Fitz being our 2015 QB. But I think we will be a better 2011 team with Fitz + Fairley than Fitz + Mallett/Locker, so our decision on how we get better for 2012 and beyond is a complicated one, and I am glad Fitz has stepped up and made it complicated...because in week 2 it was looking pretty depressing and uncomplicated.

 

 

 

If you're looking at a parallel career, look no further than Jay Fiedler, another smart, overachieving Ivy Leaguer who managed to start for a few winning seasons with the Dolphins in the early 2000s.

Fiedler was able to lead the Dolphins to 3 double digit winning seasons, but was never looked at as a guy who could lead a team to a championship.

So the long term question is would you have been satisfied having Jay Fiedler as our QB in his prime? If the answer is yes, Fitz is your QB the next few years. If the answer is no, we have to search for someone better, but maybe not this year.

Now that we have virtually no chance at the #1 pick, I wouldn't spend our top pick on a QB. I think only Luck was worth unseating Fitzpatrick next year this early into our rebuild. We also cannot afford to take a shot on Mallet or any other 1st round QB when we have so many other needs and each of the other QBs have question marks.

So let's keep searching for the franchise QB to replace Fitzpatrick, but let's not reach in the 1st round this year with Luck out of the equation.

[The Big Cat]

Accuracy and arm strength will always be Fitzpatrick's achilles heel. He has to be in a system that doesn't ask him to throw the deep out or passes more than 20 yards. The Dolphins did a great job in 2008 of game-planning to maximize Pennington's strengths without showing his weaker arm. A good offensive staff can work around a QB with less than ideal arm strength. But if a staff has a QB like Fitzpatrick needing to make throws downfield and not backing him up with a solid run game, the results generally aren't good.

 

It's true 8 games is a relatively small sample size, but the true indication of a QB's worth is after teams have had an off-season of film on him. If the guy can come back and play solid football, wonderful. The name of the game is whether a guy has potential and if he can live up to it. When I see a 6th year QB stare down a WR and throw into double coverage like he did on Sunday, I have my doubts. He's gritty, smart, and a good teammate from what I've seen. But in the NFL, you need talent to win regularly and yes, the jury is still out.

 

Just once I'd like to see Buffalo beat a division winner or playoff team convincingly. If the Bills do that Sunday and Fitzpatrick throws for 250 and 2 scores, well, I might begin to contemplate his long term potential as a NFL starting QB.

 

LOSMAN was an inaccurate passer. Fitz throws a few bad throws. Why can't you see the difference here? If you want a quarterback who makes all the throws ALL the time, you might as well perch yourself on an ice cube in Hell, brother.

 

You're comparing Fitz's arm strength to Pennington's? Are you high?

 

Never mind the fact that Fitz has Bufflo's longest ever play from the LOS. You know, the throw that traveled about 52 yards through the air:

 

 

Accuracy is his Achilles heel? Boy, you must be high.

[cåblelady]

FitzMagic!