Fitzpatrick is the new Jay Fiedler

[Johnny Hammersticks]

Each is a unique player, but I think the people just throwing away the comparison or saying someones dumb for thinking it aren't being all that fair. If you see differences, that's cool, but I get why someone could put the two next to each other as a reference point. Not saying they are clones, but there are definitely similaritieswhen thinking of a qb to use as a comparable at this point Fiedler would come to mind. I didn't see enough of Fiedler to exactly recall his throwing motion, how he goes through his reads, if his stats were poor in the clutch, but great in garbage time. From what I recall he was a good game manager, could scramble, was a smart guy, not elite physically, but could win some games. At this point it's hard to say what fitz will be but those all seem to describe him and there are some very close stats, and they are playing in an offense run by the same man. Fitz could be much better, he could pull a Derek Anderson... Currently he's kind of similar to Fiedler in my head tho, and that's not bad - and I don't think it's nuts to think so far.

 

Just for the record dude...I did not call you dumb or insult you in any way. It is your perception of the situation, and you are entitled to draw your own conclusion(s). The problem is, as devout Bills fans, we are very familiar with Jay Fiedler. To say that Fitz is the new Jay Fiedler is.....well....kind of an insult. If I knew for certain that Fitz was going to have the same potential as Fiedler, then yes, lets start looking for his replacement immediately. The fact is...we don't know that yet. I'm not saying that he is "the guy," but given his play this season, I'm not willing to rule that out yet.

 

His play for the remainder of the season, IMO, will be very indicative of his potential moving forward. We have six games left, and three of them are against likely playoff teams.

[Tim Tindale]

Just a few observations after reading numerous "we need a franchise qb" posts/threads:

 

a) People reference Brees and Brady as poster children for why we should be taking a QB in the Top 5. Brees was "too short" and slipped into the second round the year he was drafted and Brady was a 6th. The number of "franchise qb's" in the league that were top 5 picks isn't an incredibly long list. The process of grading out quarterback talent is inconsistent at best.

 

b) The notion that teams can't make the playoffs or can't win a Super Bowl without a "top tier" QB is just wrong. I think Marino was one of the top QB's of all-time and never won one. Elway didn't win one until he had Terrell Davis and decent defense. It takes a balanced roster. One guy doesn't win anything in the NFL and there have been plenty of teams that have made playoff runs without a upper echelon QB. I actually think it's harder to find teams that have gone deep into the playoffs that do not have strong defensive lines and offensive lines. Fitz can be a playoff quarterback, but not with a team that gives up 175 yards/game on the ground. About 8 weeks ago, we were talking about how much of an embarrassment the OL was. Now Fitz rarely gets sacked and the passing game has actually opened up the running game a bit. I think he's elevated the play of an under-talented line, which is saying something about how strong of a year he is actually having. The offensive line angst on this board has virtually disappeared, despite a revolving door at one of the tackle positions.

 

c) What constitutes a franchise qb? Honestly, I'd observe that nearly every other team has found their franchise QB, but the Bills. Or at least, that's what many seem to imply. I mean there are so many consistently solid-to-above average teams in the NFL now. Let's say 15 or so. I mean, Packers, Vikes, Chargers, Colts, Jets, Pats, Steelers, Ravens, Giants, Eagles, Saints, Falcons. There is another group that we'd probably classify as "always a threat/typically in the mix" such as the Cowboys, Bengals (won the AFC North last year), Dolphins, etc. How many of these teams have franchise qb's, because that's a significant amount of teams. Furthermore, how many of these teams could we swap out their starter for Fitz and they'd still be playoff-type teams? I'd argue that it's quite a few. Not all of them, but a lot.

 

The point of all of this. One player, even the QB, doesn't make a playoff team. Yes, a Brady and Manning are a one-in-a-generation guys and can obviously carry you quite far. History would say that the odds of landing that guy are remote, even with a top five pick. I think you find a solid qb, you build around him with strong offensive lines and defensive lines and you have team that can contend every year. Fitz is showing that he can be that solid qb. If not, you can pick up a solid qb off of free agency after you've put the other pieces in place. No way we ever contend with the defense we have, especially given the run defense.

[NoSaint]

"Get[ting] the franchise guy" is easier said than done. With the Bills' 2 wins, they've all but assured themselves of missing out on Luck (assuming he declares). Beyond him (and even including him), I have reservations about all the other QB's and feel it will be similar to last year, i.e. Bradford and then a bunch of career backups. And TB took a gamble and got lucky. Hardly a game plan.

 

Fiedler was in the league for 10 seasons. Fitz is in his 6th year. What's your point?

 

Again, this season blows away Fielder's best season (2001) out of his 10 years in the league. If you want to talk 2002, see below.

 

You might want to check that 2002 season. Outside of the 2 games Fiedler started against the Pats (who were ranked 11th in pass defense), the remaining teams were all in the bottom half in pass defense, and 3 were in the bottom-5.

 

I hear ya - I can't say the lions and a very beat up bengals are world beaters either. He's had some good games, against decent defenses too though. I think the steelers will be a good test, but definitely not the end all. Don't forget, it looks like their weakness is pass defense. Also, like I said, the NFL has helped out qbs and receivers since then. comparing two half seasons nearly a decade apart only says so much.

 

 

I don't agree with the thread title declaring him the next Fiedler, I'm just saying he's played kind of similarly, and done so with the same coach, and a similar scouting report. Not a crazy reference at this point in his career.

[BillsVet]

Theres only one truth in this thread: there's us lowly "casual" fans, we wear our sweats while watching the team play, Bills games are secondary Sunday activites, and to a man, we lack the capacity for critical, anytical thought.

 

Then there are the uber fans like BillsVet, without whom the rest of us would be lost, utterly lost.

 

So just know: if youve ever had a positive thought about the Bills, your credibility is ****. Youre nothing more than a casual fan and you should really consider a cease and desist before spamming a highly intelligible, highly prestigious bastion for discourse such as TSW.

 

I'll stop complaining about the team when they win 10 or more games and reach the playoffs. And don't make this a class argument thing, because it's not. Some fans are more into football than others, and that's OK. but you've been a lead cheerleader on this board for a long time, and nearly every time your predictions fail. When people pointed out before the season the QB, pass protection, and pass rush were terrible, you attacked. Well, will you humble yourself and admit this is a rebuilding team that doesn't win against quality teams? Nah, you'd rather make this a class warfare thing and continue complaining that some people aren't impressed beating the dregs of the NFL.

 

6 teams make the playoffs in the conference meaning 10 don't. If you're impressed winning 4-8 games per season and perhaps challenging for the wildcard, fine. Just don't bash people who demand excellence once in a decade. I mean, even the Raiders, Bucs, and Rams have more wins that Buffalo this season.

Edited November 25, 2010 by BillsVet

[NoSaint]

Just for the record dude...I did not call you dumb or insult you in any way. It is your perception of the situation, and you are entitled to draw your own conclusion(s). The problem is, as devout Bills fans, we are very familiar with Jay Fiedler. To say that Fitz is the new Jay Fiedler is.....well....kind of an insult. If I knew for certain that Fitz was going to have the same potential as Fiedler, then yes, lets start looking for his replacement immediately. The fact is...we don't know that yet. I'm not saying that he is "the guy," but given his play this season, I'm not willing to rule that out yet.

 

His play for the remainder of the season, IMO, will be very indicative of his potential moving forward. We have six games left, and three of them are against likely playoff teams.

 

For sure - no insult taken. I think it's both sides. If you like fitz your a dumb homer, if not you are a pessimist that doesn't really know football.

 

I think if I remember correctly, we saw some of the worst of Fiedler.

 

I say if we nix thinks he has his guy in the draft, pull the trigger. If not, let's roll with what we've got and solidify this defense.

[bobobonators]

everything w/the OP revolves around bashing Fitz, either directly or indirectly. what a joke. why even post here?

[The Big Cat]

I'll stop complaining about the team when they win 10 or more games and reach the playoffs. And don't make this a class argument thing, because it's not. Some fans are more into football than others, and that's OK. but you've been a lead cheerleader on this board for a long time, and nearly every time your predictions fail. When people pointed out before the season the QB, pass protection, and pass rush were terrible, you attacked. Well, will you humble yourself and admit this is a rebuilding team that doesn't win against quality teams? Nah, you'd rather make this a class warfare thing and cemplaningomplaining that some people aren't impressed beating the dregs of the NFL.

 

 

 

 

 

 

TSW's resident shoe pebble, everyone.

 

No one here is saying you're wrong, in fact let me be the first to offer you a hearty congratulations on being right ALL the time when you whine about how crappy the team is. Pat yourself on the back, you should be proud.

 

Being right doesn't make you any less of a crotchety bore, and I've only ever derided you for being the latter.

 

But again, the rest of us are truly envious of the sound nights sleep you must get each and every time your favorite team brings your doom and gloom scenarios to fruition.

 

 

 

 

 

6 teams make the playoffs in the conference meaning 10 don't. If you're impressed winning 4-8 games per season and perhaps challenging for the wildcard, fine. Just don't bash people who demand excellence once in a decade. I mean, even the Raiders, Bucs, and Rams have more wins that Buffalo this season.

[Johnny Hammersticks]

everything w/the OP revolves around bashing Fitz, either directly or indirectly. what a joke. why even post here?

 

Seriously, where the hell is the original poster? You start a controversial thread like this, and you haven't made a single follow-up post to defend your ideas? Let's hear from ya. Tell us exactly why Fitz is the next Jay Fiedler.

 

We can wait until you are done carving the turkey

[EastRochBillsfan]

Theres only one truth in this thread: there's us lowly "casual" fans, we wear our sweats while watching the team play, Bills games are secondary Sunday activites, and to a man, we lack the capacity for critical, anytical thought.

 

Then there are the uber fans like BillsVet, without whom the rest of us would be lost, utterly lost.

 

So just know: if youve ever had a positive thought about the Bills, your credibility is ****. Youre nothing more than a casual fan and you should really consider a cease and desist before spamming a highly intelligible, highly prestigious bastion for discourse such as TSW.

Not sure what everything you said meant, but I must agree, where would we all be without Billsvets' superior football knowledge and intelligence. We're not worthy.

 

Just for the record dude...I did not call you dumb or insult you in any way. It is your perception of the situation, and you are entitled to draw your own conclusion(s). The problem is, as devout Bills fans, we are very familiar with Jay Fiedler. To say that Fitz is the new Jay Fiedler is.....well....kind of an insult. If I knew for certain that Fitz was going to have the same potential as Fiedler, then yes, lets start looking for his replacement immediately. The fact is...we don't know that yet. I'm not saying that he is "the guy," but given his play this season, I'm not willing to rule that out yet.

 

His play for the remainder of the season, IMO, will be very indicative of his potential moving forward. We have six games left, and three of them are against likely playoff teams.

well said and i concur wholeheartedly.

 

I'll stop complaining about the team when they win 10 or more games and reach the playoffs. And don't make this a class argument thing, because it's not. Some fans are more into football than others, and that's OK. but you've been a lead cheerleader on this board for a long time, and nearly every time your predictions fail. When people pointed out before the season the QB, pass protection, and pass rush were terrible, you attacked. Well, will you humble yourself and admit this is a rebuilding team that doesn't win against quality teams? Nah, you'd rather make this a class warfare thing and continue complaining that some people aren't impressed beating the dregs of the NFL.

 

6 teams make the playoffs in the conference meaning 10 don't. If you're impressed winning 4-8 games per season and perhaps challenging for the wildcard, fine. Just don't bash people who demand excellence once in a decade. I mean, even the Raiders, Bucs, and Rams have more wins that Buffalo this season.

like winning 10 games and going to the playoffs is going to shut you up. Not a chance in hell you stop complaining cuz that's just who you are. If you think any of us are happy winning 4-8 games and that you are the only one that wants excellence then you're blind AND negative. Just because you "demand excellence" doesn't change a thing. and it doesn't make you a better or more knowledgable fan than the rest of us. you're just a complainer and you always will be and I just can't stand reading a damn thing you have to say. And rest assured, I am not alone.

[bobobonators]

Seriously, where the hell is the original poster? You start a controversial thread like this, and you haven't made a single follow-up post to defend your ideas? Let's hear from ya. Tell us exactly why Fitz is the next Jay Fiedler.

 

We can wait until you are done carving the turkey

 

that's all this guy does. go look at his post history - not a single positive comment on fitz. now, when it comes time to talk-up future nfl hall of famer, luck, his praise is unyielding.

[Bill from NYC]

If you're looking at a parallel career, look no further than Jay Fiedler, another smart, overachieving Ivy Leaguer who managed to start for a few winning seasons with the Dolphins in the early 2000s.

Fiedler was able to lead the Dolphins to 3 double digit winning seasons, but was never looked at as a guy who could lead a team to a championship.

So the long term question is would you have been satisfied having Jay Fiedler as our QB in his prime? If the answer is yes, Fitz is your QB the next few years. If the answer is no, we have to search for someone better, but maybe not this year.

Now that we have virtually no chance at the #1 pick, I wouldn't spend our top pick on a QB. I think only Luck was worth unseating Fitzpatrick next year this early into our rebuild. We also cannot afford to take a shot on Mallet or any other 1st round QB when we have so many other needs and each of the other QBs have question marks.

So let's keep searching for the franchise QB to replace Fitzpatrick, but let's not reach in the 1st round this year with Luck out of the equation.

 

Very good analogy Harvey. Both also were very mobile. That said, I would take Mallett in a heartbeat.

[truth on hold]

Both have serious accuracy problems.

[Rockinon]

Both have serious accuracy problems.

So did Favre.

[truth on hold]

So did Favre.

Neither one have anywhere near Favre's arm strength

[Rockinon]

Neither one have anywhere near Favre's arm strength

What do you know about arm strength?

[Big Turk]

Just a few observations after reading numerous "we need a franchise qb" posts/threads:

 

a) People reference Brees and Brady as poster children for why we should be taking a QB in the Top 5. Brees was "too short" and slipped into the second round the year he was drafted and Brady was a 6th. The number of "franchise qb's" in the league that were top 5 picks isn't an incredibly long list. The process of grading out quarterback talent is inconsistent at best.

 

That can be said for any position really...QB always gets the most attention because it is the most important position, but there are cases every year where 1st round guys suck and 7th round and undrafted players playing he same position flourish...

 

makes one wonder just how good someone has to be to be a scout and why it is so difficult to predict...

[ko12010]

Casual fans forget the crucial errors Fitz has made that would be magnified if this team were in the playoff hunt or actually competing for the division. He threw a key INT against KC, another against CHI, and a pick 6 against Cincy. Every QB in the league throws picks, and occasionally at inopportune times (P. Manning last week, Brady in AFC Title Game 06) but the great ones don't do it as frequently as Fitzpatrick has. The margin of error is thinner that most casual fans realize, because essentially most Bills fans don't know what a franchise QB does week in and week out and what they do to win games.

 

In 8 games this season, Fitz has completed half or fewer than half of his passes 3 times. He's passed for under 150 yards twice and thrown two INT's four times and is completing about 58% of his passes. Fitz is a decent player playing above average for a bad football team. To ever be a good team, they'll need fewer mistakes from their QB in games against opponents better than Cincinnati and Detroit.

 

 

People tend to forget that Fitz CAN improve his game as well. We think of rookies as the only ones who develop and need a few years to learn nuances and offensive audibles and adjustments. But there's no reason Fitz can't improve dramatically as a total player over the next couple seasons.

[Buffalo Barbarian]

fitzpatrick is ten times the passes fiedler ever was.

 

Thank you +1

[EndZoneCrew]

If you're looking at a parallel career, look no further than Jay Fiedler, another smart, overachieving Ivy Leaguer who managed to start for a few winning seasons with the Dolphins in the early 2000s.

Fiedler was able to lead the Dolphins to 3 double digit winning seasons, but was never looked at as a guy who could lead a team to a championship.

So the long term question is would you have been satisfied having Jay Fiedler as our QB in his prime? If the answer is yes, Fitz is your QB the next few years. If the answer is no, we have to search for someone better, but maybe not this year.

Now that we have virtually no chance at the #1 pick, I wouldn't spend our top pick on a QB. I think only Luck was worth unseating Fitzpatrick next year this early into our rebuild. We also cannot afford to take a shot on Mallet or any other 1st round QB when we have so many other needs and each of the other QBs have question marks.

So let's keep searching for the franchise QB to replace Fitzpatrick, but let's not reach in the 1st round this year with Luck out of the equation.

 

When was Fiedler throwing 4 TD's in a game or winging it around for 300+ yards?

[Cotton Fitzsimmons]

When was Fiedler throwing 4 TD's in a game or winging it around for 300+ yards?

 

Apparently you didn't get the memo... the NFL has enhanced the rules over the last 8 years. Clearly if Fiedler was playing in this era, he'd be putting up those kind of numbers on a weekly basis.

 

 

In the 8 years between the NFL has used the rule book to open up the passing game more....