Fan in San Diego Posted November 23, 2010 Posted November 23, 2010 and I'm going to say it you dont know a damn thing about football. who would you rather have fitz or,brady,either manning,brees,flacco,ryan,big ben,palmer,rivers,vick,mcnabb,rogers,bradford, get the point? look i like fitz and he is the best we have by a mile however in the NFL like polian and brandt and all the GM's who know their sh-t all say the most important thing on a football team is QB then LT. its not a coincidence that all the teams that have franchise QB's are in the playoffs every year. its because they have the ability to elevate every player on the offense and make them better. that being said the object of this game is to always improve yourself so if we can draft a potential franchise QB any GM worth his salt will do it. want a perfect example. look at what SD did they had brees yet they still went ahead and drafted rivers and instantly started him.want to know why it was because they knew he was a rare talent,or as Nix said a no brain er. its called common sense. franchise QB's dont grow on trees and if you can get one you damn well better or your dead. this draft has @ LEAST 3 OR 4 potential FRANCHAISE qb's with one all world sure fire star in Luck. if Nix does not take one of these guys this year he should be fired but mark my words he will. unfortunately its our buffalo bad Luck that we will not have a shot @ Luck however there are @ least 3 other QB's who we will be able to get hopefully and there is no doubt in my mind Nix will take one. do i want fitz cut no. what i want is for fitz to tutor our new QB and be our second string QB. if we dont get Luck or Mallett or Locker maybe fitz will have to be our starter one more year but then is back to the bench. mark my words we will get our QB of the future in the first round this year or we will trade back into the first round if we are unable to land luck with our own first round pick. fitz is a great competitor but he is not a QB that can win us a super bowl. he simply does not possess the physical tools namely arm strength and accuracy to be a franchise QB and anyone who does not understand that does not know football plain and simple. so just stop with all this fitz is our guy for the future BS because as much as all you guys have a man crush on him he is what he is a great backup and will never be a franchise QB. Dont forget that Luck and Mallet havn't even thrown a pass in the NFL yet, so lets not appoint them as Superbowl MVP QB's just yet.
billsFORlife50 Posted November 23, 2010 Posted November 23, 2010 want a perfect example. look at what SD did they had brees yet they still went ahead and drafted rivers and instantly started him.want to know why it was because they knew he was a rare talent,or as Nix said a no brain er. its called common sense. franchise QB's dont grow on trees and if you can get one you damn well better or your dead." Just so you know they drafted Rivers and he sat behind Brees until his contract expired and Brees then had his best year as a charger, and i believe is a better QB than Rivers. If they never drafted Rivers they could have had Brees in his prime and might have won a superbowl too.
Spun Posted November 23, 2010 Posted November 23, 2010 I have seen too many big name college QBs underachieve in the pros. It is hard to believe when seeing some of these guys struggle like Carson Palmer and Brady Quinn who were both very highly touted coming out of college. The leap from college to pro is immense especially at QB. True, Fitz has been very impressive at times. His release, composure, moxy and winning attitude are impressive. I get the Drew Brees and Phillip Rivers logic. Nix and the Chargers set their minds to ensuring that would have a very good QB. As it turns out they had two and we know how that story has played out. Can the Bills do better than Fitz? Yes and possibly! I would prefer a stud pass rusher. Adrian Clayborn #94 for Iowa looks like a load. His stats aren't great because he seems to be the main concern for every opposing offensive line. Could he also underachieve? Definitely! At this point I don't believe the Bills will have a shot at Luck. Nix is a smart football guy. It took guts to draft Spiller and trade off Lynch. Spiller may flourish for the Bills while Lynch really laid a clunker yesterday. Nix could go any of a variety of ways with the #1. A stud defensive lineman helps the entire defense and ultimately the offense. Just get it right. Please!
aristocrat Posted November 23, 2010 Posted November 23, 2010 want a perfect example. look at what SD did they had brees yet they still went ahead and drafted rivers and instantly started him.want to know why it was because they knew he was a rare talent,or as Nix said a no brain er. its called common sense. franchise QB's dont grow on trees and if you can get one you damn well better or your dead." Just so you know they drafted Rivers and he sat behind Brees until his contract expired and Brees then had his best year as a charger, and i believe is a better QB than Rivers. If they never drafted Rivers they could have had Brees in his prime and might have won a superbowl too. brees was also playing terribly the year before they drafted rivers. if luck is there you take him but at the same time we need capitalize on the other picks in the draft and in free agency. looking back i bet the chargers wished they traded brees after that 1st nice season he had with rivers on the bench...they prob could have squeezed a 1st from a team and that could have put them over the top.
217014170 Posted November 23, 2010 Posted November 23, 2010 Look at the Jets first round draft picks in between Chad Pennington and Mark Sanchez. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_New_York_Jets_first-round_draft_picks) By the time the Jets picked Sanchez all the pieces were in place. They struggled with Pennington and never got over the hump. I would bet they realized that Pennington was not the answer and continued to draft for need primarily on both lines. I am fine with keeping Fitzpatrick and Gailey together as long as the team accurately identifies needs and drafts accordingly. Nothing sets a team back like missing on a quarterback in the first round. Especially a team on a budget. I think Ryan Fitzpatrick would win with the Jets but I am not sure Sanchez would win with this version of the Bills. The Jets initially plugged Sanchez in and asked him to grow and not screw anything up. Given time (in the right situation) to grow in to a leader and build confidence he is now winning games. Luck is the best looking QB prospect that MIGHT come out this year but even if he is sitting there for the Bills to take I would say trade down and collect more picks. The Bills current situation is just not ideal for a rookie QB. You don't draft a QB with the first pick and not make him the starter from Day One or at least by mid season. If you do that in Buffalo right now you would destroy the guys confidence. The most popular guy in town is the backup QB on a bad team. The last thing a young QB needs is to have people in the grocery store telling him how great he is and how they cannot believe he is not starting. I am not saying ignore the QB position altogether but target someone later in the draft that can come in and compete. Jake Locker and Ryan Mallet will continue to slip. If you can get Locker in the 4th round you take him based on potential alone. Hopefully you take him with someone elses pick acquired via trade. By the time Jim Kelly's nephew enters the NFL draft the Bills will be in a position, like the Jets were with Sanchez, to draft him in to what should be an ideal situation. How 'bout that?
DreReed83 Posted November 23, 2010 Posted November 23, 2010 want a perfect example. look at what SD did they had brees yet they still went ahead and drafted rivers and instantly started him.want to know why it was because they knew he was a rare talent,or as Nix said a no brain er. its called common sense. franchise QB's dont grow on trees and if you can get one you damn well better or your dead." Just so you know they drafted Rivers and he sat behind Brees until his contract expired and Brees then had his best year as a charger, and i believe is a better QB than Rivers. If they never drafted Rivers they could have had Brees in his prime and might have won a superbowl too. Agreed for the most part. However Rivers is a GREAT QB himself. Look at what he's doing this year with no definitive number 1 WR. He had Malcolm Floyd for half the season, Patrick Crayton and Ajirotutu???? Granted that Brees won the Super Bowl, but Sean Peyton is a far better coach than Turner in every sense. Also don't forget the Saints werent serious contenders til they hired Gregg Williams to take over the defense.
217014170 Posted November 23, 2010 Posted November 23, 2010 (edited) want a perfect example. look at what SD did they had brees yet they still went ahead and drafted rivers and instantly started him.want to know why it was because they knew he was a rare talent,or as Nix said a no brain er. its called common sense. franchise QB's dont grow on trees and if you can get one you damn well better or your dead." Just so you know they drafted Rivers and he sat behind Brees until his contract expired and Brees then had his best year as a charger, and i believe is a better QB than Rivers. If they never drafted Rivers they could have had Brees in his prime and might have won a superbowl too. Go back and research Brees' injury and the fact that New Orleans was the only team that would touch him. Miami (Nick Saban) wanted him and he could not pass the physical. Brees is a Dr. James Andrews poster child...literally a miracle he is even playing let alone at an elite level. It did create a convenient opportunity to promote Rivers and allow Brees to go. Where did Rivers play college? NC State...ACC but in Nix's favorite territory the Southeast. If I was a betting man I would say Nix goes Mallett over Luck if given the chance and they go QB. Big difference between PAC-10 and SEC defenses... Also, Drew Brees and LT were borne out of a great trade with Atlanta who then drafted Mike Vick. Who engineered that? John Butler! (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/inside_game/pat_kirwan/news/2001/04/23/kirwan_q_a_apr23/) Think Vick as Luck...Nix has Butler DNA so trading away from the consensus "top QB" would not be unprecedented. Go back and read the pre-draft grades on Brees...undersized, etc. Butler and AJ Smith were also the guys that brought another undersized QB back to the NFL...Doug Flutie. My two cents... Edited November 23, 2010 by 217014170
KOKBILLS Posted November 23, 2010 Posted November 23, 2010 Think Vick as Luck...Nix has Butler DNA so trading away from the consensus "top QB" would not be unprecedented. There is fault in your logic... Vick does not = Luck coming out...At the time there were PLENTY of Football Guys who questioned whether or not Mike Vick would ever be a great NFL QB...Butler saw a Team that needed a ton, but he also saw a QB in Brees who he believed had a better chance at success than Vick...Luck is going to come into the NFL with FAR less question marks than Vick...FAR less...Scouts and GM's are going to love this Kid because he seems to be the total package off the field as well as on... There is one player who, if he comes out, the Buffalo Bills will not pass on..That player is Andrew Luck...
Spiderweb Posted November 23, 2010 Posted November 23, 2010 +10000 Id rather see us draft D first 2 rounds than an OT, more D. We have a very ablke QB for now and it seems you cant teach what Fitz has As far as the intangibles, Fitz is well above anyone we've seen since Jim Kelly. Yet, Fitz still has weekly frequent erratic throws. If he had a consistently accurate arm, Fitz may well be all world, but alas...... For now, he's given the Bills some of the best QB'ing they've had in a long time. Bledsoe (pat, pat, pat) had the cannon, but Fitz's is better in the pocket presence and quick release facets of the job. Again, if only he could show consistent accuracy........
dayman Posted November 23, 2010 Posted November 23, 2010 This teams biggest need is far from QB. Hell, QB isn't even this teams need at all. But QB is currently, as it has been since Kelly left, the biggest need for this organization and city.
217014170 Posted November 23, 2010 Posted November 23, 2010 There is fault in your logic... Vick does not = Luck coming out...At the time there were PLENTY of Football Guys who questioned whether or not Mike Vick would ever be a great NFL QB...Butler saw a Team that needed a ton, but he also saw a QB in Brees who he believed had a better chance at success than Vick...Luck is going to come into the NFL with FAR less question marks than Vick...FAR less...Scouts and GM's are going to love this Kid because he seems to be the total package off the field as well as on... There is one player who, if he comes out, the Buffalo Bills will not pass on..That player is Andrew Luck... I am not comparing Vick of 2001 and Luck of 2011 on character. Simply comparing them as the consensus "Top QB" in their respective drafts. That being said, I would take Vick of 2010 over anyone available in the upcoming draft class. He definitely thrives in the Eagles offense but it is not much different than what Gailey runs or would run. If Jeffrey Dahmer ran a 4.2 40-yard he would have been on a roster somewhere and not in prison...well maybe on work release.
Bart Posted November 23, 2010 Posted November 23, 2010 I have been really behind drafting Luck for most of the season, but Fitz has completely changed me the past few games... We can win with Fitz. With a better defense, we can make the playoffs. We certainly score enough points to win. I say we go heavy on defense in this draft... Agreed. We need to get bigger on both lines and a LB and TE would help.
The Big Cat Posted November 23, 2010 Posted November 23, 2010 and I'm going to say it you dont know a damn thing about football. who would you rather have fitz or,brady,either manning,brees,flacco,ryan,big ben,palmer,rivers,vick,mcnabb,rogers,bradford, get the point? fwiw, i'd take fitz over eli manning and carson palmer. how do you know a quarterback of similar caliber to the aforementioned doesn't already sit on our roster in brohm or brown? really. how do you know? want a perfect example. look at what SD did they had brees yet they still went ahead and drafted rivers and instantly started him.want to know why it was because they knew he was a rare talent,or as Nix said a no brain er. its called common sense. franchise QB's dont grow on trees and if you can get one you damn well better or your dead." Just so you know they drafted Rivers and he sat behind Brees until his contract expired and Brees then had his best year as a charger, and i believe is a better QB than Rivers. If they never drafted Rivers they could have had Brees in his prime and might have won a superbowl too. College careers: comp att avg yds y/a y/c TD INT rating Philip Rivers 1087 1711 63.5 13484 7.9 8.1 95 34 144.1 Andrew Luck 386 607 63.6 5321 8.8 9.2 37 11 153.7 Aside from the injury issue mentioned already in the post that blew your "perfect example" out of the water, please explain how the situation is the same between these two players?
bowery4 Posted November 23, 2010 Posted November 23, 2010 The answer to your question has to be an unqualified yes - I'm becoming a Fitzbeard fan but at the end of the day he is kind of like Joe Ferguson as compared to Jim Kelly to me. Fergy was a good but not great QB who could win with the right cast around him. Jim Kelly was a player that had the talent to lift a team (at least an offense)on his back and carry it. I am in no way saying Kelly was not surrounded by talent - there was plenty - he simply made the talent there even better. There are very few players who can carry a team - if one is available the Bills must take him. I agree some what, that you take a Franchise QB, the best player at the most important position is what you do (if we have a chance at Luck or maybe Mallet) you take him. Let him sit and learn while Fitz shows he is Kurt Warner. The biggest problem is you are paying him so much money! I don't see RW doing that but it is the right thing to do. And yes we have other needs, that is what the rest of the draft and FA are made for. That being said, I think Fitz is not much like Fergy. Fergy had all kinds of quit in him when it came to being a QB. He would hang his head and I would just say to my 11 year old self "come on!" Chuck PLEASE bench him now!! OJ the D and the O line made that team what it was not Fergy IMO. Fitz plays with Kelly like heart, with a Oline as good as Jimbo had who knows how good he would be. BTW these are good problems, I like w/Chan and Buddy this year we are having some good problems for a change.
PromoTheRobot Posted November 23, 2010 Posted November 23, 2010 (edited) I agree that you always take a franchise QB. Now tell me without error who that is? PTR Edited November 23, 2010 by PromoTheRobot
flmike Posted November 23, 2010 Posted November 23, 2010 and I'm going to say it you dont know a damn thing about football. fitz is a great competitor but he is not a QB that can win us a super bowl. he simply does not possess the physical tools namely arm strength and accuracy to be a franchise QB and anyone who does not understand that does not know football plain and simple. so just stop with all this fitz is our guy for the future BS because as much as all you guys have a man crush on him he is what he is a great backup and will never be a franchise QB. Hmm.. I think Fitz can be plenty accurate. He tends to elevate the ball when he gets flustered, but with a few more games, I think he can slow the game down even more. I'm willing to find out.
PromoTheRobot Posted November 23, 2010 Posted November 23, 2010 Hmm.. I think Fitz can be plenty accurate. He tends to elevate the ball when he gets flustered, but with a few more games, I think he can slow the game down even more. I'm willing to find out. I just saw Peyton Manning blow the Pats* game with 3 INTs including one that blew a shot at a tying field goal. So even the best QB's drop a turd sometimes. PTR
Jdragon2 Posted November 23, 2010 Posted November 23, 2010 and I'm going to say it you dont know a damn thing about football. who would you rather have fitz or,brady,either manning,brees,flacco,ryan,big ben,palmer,rivers,vick,mcnabb,rogers,bradford, get the point? so just stop with all this fitz is our guy for the future BS because as much as all you guys have a man crush on him he is what he is a great backup and will never be a franchise QB. This entire post is vaguely reminiscent of a kid trying to convince his parents that he's mature enough to drive. It has some valid points but lacks the maturity most would look for. I don't think you realize that most people here do not have a "man crush" on fitz. People recognize what he represents to his team. Ie: Heart, drive, emotion and will. Is he of the caliber of some of the quarterbacks you've mentioned? (Argueably every other QB currently active) I'd say yes, to most. Mcnabb especially pales in comparison, currently. Fitz may not be up to the standards of some peoples "Picture perfect franchise Qb," but 90% of the time, I'm thoroughly enjoying having him as our QB. Will we draft a QB if possible? Probably. Do I believe Fitz is good enough to make drafting a QB a lesser priority then other positions? Absolutely.
bisonbrigade Posted November 23, 2010 Posted November 23, 2010 60% completion with 18 Td's and only 9 Int's with a 88.1 passer rating is not a fluke and I doubt few could do better. The ONLY reason why people want a 1st round QB is to have a 1st round QB. Luck, Locker or Mallet could not do any better than those stat's, at least in there first three years. And the chances of a QB panning out are'nt that great.
KOKBILLS Posted November 23, 2010 Posted November 23, 2010 I am not comparing Vick of 2001 and Luck of 2011 on character. Simply comparing them as the consensus "Top QB" in their respective drafts. That being said, I would take Vick of 2010 over anyone available in the upcoming draft class. He definitely thrives in the Eagles offense but it is not much different than what Gailey runs or would run. If Jeffrey Dahmer ran a 4.2 40-yard he would have been on a roster somewhere and not in prison...well maybe on work release. I understand what you're saying...But part of your orignal comment was to point out that Nix may be open to Trading Down, even if we had a chance to Draft Luck, because they did so in SD with Vick/Brees...And my point was simple...The Bills would NEVER pass on the opportunity to Draft Luck...Fitz or no Fitz they would take Luck...That's all I'm saying...Who Vick is now has nothing to do with the point I was trying to make which was, Luck is going to be more highly thought of coming out than Mike Vick was back then...And Buddy will not pass on Luck no matter what anybody offers...The Bills will never get the chance to draft Luck anyway...But if they do he'll be a Buffalo Bill...You can write that in stone...
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