BuffaloWings Posted December 10, 2004 Posted December 10, 2004 1. Terrence McGee. The more I watch of this guy, the more I realize that it's not far fetched to say that there's a good possibility that we're witnessing the early days of greatness at KR. It's ironic that Bobby April reared two of the all time great returners, Sanders and Woodson. This third one is definitely a charm. He has that uncanny knack, that rare vision and speed that those guys had in their prime. Lock him up. He can only help this team's chances in the future. 154409[/snapback] I think this is what the Bills need...someone to steal some national spotlight with dazzling performances. We heard about Dante Hall and his returns all last year. We hear about the big stars every day (Manning, McNabb, Favre, Brady, etc). I think it would be a VERY good thing to retain McGee - especially if he looks to be the star player Bobby April is turning him into. Bring some spotlight to Western NY - and not because they lost 4 Superbowls in the 90s. Agreed about Jennings and Clements, also. A good tackle and CB are hard to find. They will help the foundation of the team for years if TD signs them.
Guest Guest_Coach_Tuesday Posted December 10, 2004 Posted December 10, 2004 unlike you do not think you are a fool. 154889[/snapback] He thinks he's a fool?
todd Posted December 10, 2004 Posted December 10, 2004 Todd...I cannot win...if I would have included late round picks you would have said that who expects anything from late round picks. When I don't include them you comment on how I tailor the data to exclude the gems of TD. You and I will never agree about TD. I still like your insight, and unlike you do not think you are a fool. 154889[/snapback] Don't misunderstand, I don't think you are a fool on a personal level. I think someone's ideas can be foolish, without that person being a fool.
Fake-Fat Sunny Posted December 10, 2004 Posted December 10, 2004 1. Terrence McGee. The more I watch of this guy, the more I realize that it's not far fetched to say that there's a good possibility that we're witnessing the early days of greatness at KR. It's ironic that Bobby April reared two of the all time great returners, Sanders and Woodson. This third one is definitely a charm. He has that uncanny knack, that rare vision and speed that those guys had in their prime. Lock him up. He can only help this team's chances in the future. 2. Clements. Big, physical corners with great hands who love Buffalo and have no off field issues are difficult to find. Clements has made his share of boneheaded plays, not the least of which is the failure to win the first game for us with a simple knock down, but he's a top 12 corner in this league, at least. Lock him up. 3. Jonas Jennings. We give him schitt for getting knicked up a lot, but he has never missed long stretches of time. He plays hurt. And he plays well. When was the last time you saw Jonas get just flat burned? He's been Soooo solid for us against our critical AFC East matchups, Abraham and Taylor. He's consistent, smart, unselfish, and has great character. LTs like that are one of the hardest guys to find. Lock him up. 154409[/snapback] Nod- Thanks for the ideas. If only if were so easy as making a difficult but simple assessment how good a player is (and you hope he will be if he is not injured in the game, slips in the tub. or his gradmother doesn't die and he reacts badly to it as happened with MW) then building a winner could easily be conceived. However, it is even more complex than this simple reality as the choices who to invest in and keep are even further complicatedby the CBA, who else is available, who else on the team gets struck down or performs etc. The thing which strikes me as funny is that many fans have taken to indicting TV as a malingerer or a stiff as a player in my view simply because they and I have been made all hot to trot and excited by McGee's kick return performance. Excitement about TM as a return guy is certainly warranted by his play. However, as outstanding as it is, it does not mean that he will ever be the performer want at CB, or mean that TV is a stiff. I make the following judgments on your comments- 1. TM- I would not extend him, nor if I were him would I want an extension. Obviously, if TM were willing to give the Bills the sweetheart deal Hwnry gave them because he wants some upfront money then resign him on the cheap, or if TD is kidnapped by aliens and he offers a sweetheart deal to TM then he should resign. However, neither party us likely to maximize their benefit by extending now. From the Bills perspective TM is signed cheaply through the 2006 season as many mid round draft picks are. However, even if TM were to play out his contract he would become a resticted free agent rather than an unrestricted free agent. In order to sign him an opponent would have to give TM a huge deal and part with significant draft resources for the Bills to get him. This has been done as big bucks Dan Snyder was willing to give up money and picks to NYJ to sign Morton. The Morton cas is similar to the McGee case in that he offers an outstanding KR value which might make him worth such an investment. However, most owners are not Dan Snyder (and cap constraints will soon make Dan Snyder unable to be the Dan Snyder of the past). Add to that a CB being important but less of a gamebreaker than WR Morton as a position player and TM getting some good INTs but still struggling to master the CB slot and the Bills have a couple of years before TM is a UFA and a real danger to leave the Bills, In that time, injury could easily lay him low or opponents will do as Chiefs opponents have done and developed ways to neutralize TM as has happened with Dante Hall. It is c;ear from the likely to make the playoffs position the Jets are in and impossible to make the playoffs even in a weak NFC position theSkins are in who benefitted more from the RFA reach which would be analagous to a TM signing. I don't extend if I am TM because a team would have to overlook my lack of leverage to sign me to a deal I think is worthwhile. 2. Clements- yes I lock him up and unfortunately have to pay Winfield/Vikes money to do so. We cannot afford to lose yet another CB and even if he is rarely challenged not because he is so good, but because McGee is an easier target, he is a definite gamebreaker in terms of his punt returns and his ability to get INTs and in particular turn them into TDs as he has several times in his career. 3. It would be great for continuit sake to resign Jennings, but given what the market had provided LTs in the past, I would not give him enough money to likely keep him here is Arthur Blank wants him to protect Michael Vick at the same level which saw him give too much FA money and a draft pick to the Bills to get Vick Peerless Price. Teams have gotten into the habit of investing top 10 OL money into LTs such that 8 of the top 10 OL salaries for OL players (franchise hits of the top 5 at $7 mill a year and transition hits for a top 10 average at $6 million). Jennings play is not worth the level of the outstanding LTs in my view nor can the team afford other allocations necessary for the OL, O, of team at this level. More pedestrian LTs like Clifton, Wade, and Pettigout have recently commanded annual salaries which are high but certainly lower than the top 10 cap hits. If Jennings gets op 10 money from Blank or someone or demands that to extend I say thanks but see ya. I think the Bills will likely have alternatives if Jennings commands big bucks. I'm not sure what will work and much depends on JMacs plans for building an entire OL but among the options at LT (most of which will not work but we onlneed one to work to replace him and one other as a sub) include: 1. Move Teague from center where many have hated him (though I have like his C play) to LT where he orginally wanted to be and showed with the Broncs he is certauinly up to the job. 2. See if Price can step up to be permanent and we can find adequate back-up to replace him. 3. Move MW to LT as most originally thought he would move now that he has seemed to recover the RT form we wanted. 4. Try Tucker out at tackle which he originally played in this league. Though LT is a big jump, Tucker makes the move which is more likely than Tucker, it allows Tucker to merely make the move to fill the new RT need. 5. Until our recent TE injuries, Peters was on the roster as a tackle, LT is too much responsibility for him likely but again if MW can make the move RT is unlikely for him to rise up to but is a possibility. 6. Resign Jennings at an affordable deal for the Bills. It is actually item 6 which I think is most likely for the Bills IF we resign Jennings. Though the LT contract market has blossomed, the irony here is that I think it actually may make Jenning affordable for us because the LT market is now mature and commitments have been made. Consider these factoids: 1. Alot of the LT money is locked up- Not only are 8 of the top 10 cap hits LTs, but teams like Chicago et al. have made major commitments to the second tier of LTs where folks like Wade, Clifton, and Petitgout have locked up major commtiments which takes many teams out of the market for Jennings and out of the picture as competition for the Bills. 2, Those looking hard for an LT are going to pay big dollars and will have to choose whether to spend the money on folks like Orlando Pace who is not in the top 10 salaries but will be entering the market- Not only will the demand for LTs be constrained as most teams have already committed big bucks to the position, but Jennings will not be at the top level of available LTs. 3. If the Bills do go FA to fill out the OL there likely will be cheaper options- Consider this, the Bills were able to get Trey Teague who was then viewed as our likely attempt at an LT answer for an annual salary of $3 million. Good OL players are available at a near rock-bottom cost if you scout well and negotiate hard. It simply far more complicated than going out and giving up the ranch and the dog for Jennings. If in fact, JMac becomes comfortable with MW making the move to LT, it frees the Bills to shop in the lower cost market for a FA RT or to try to develop someone internally. If Teague makes the move it gives us the ability to shop fow a center who may be pricey but will be of lower cost than an LT.
d_wag Posted December 10, 2004 Posted December 10, 2004 Nod- Thanks for the ideas. If only if were so easy as making a difficult but simple assessment how good a player is (and you hope he will be if he is not injured in the game, slips in the tub. or his gradmother doesn't die and he reacts badly to it as happened with MW) then building a winner could easily be conceived. However, it is even more complex than this simple reality as the choices who to invest in and keep are even further complicatedby the CBA, who else is available, who else on the team gets struck down or performs etc. The thing which strikes me as funny is that many fans have taken to indicting TV as a malingerer or a stiff as a player in my view simply because they and I have been made all hot to trot and excited by McGee's kick return performance. Excitement about TM as a return guy is certainly warranted by his play. However, as outstanding as it is, it does not mean that he will ever be the performer want at CB, or mean that TV is a stiff. I make the following judgments on your comments- 1. TM- I would not extend him, nor if I were him would I want an extension. Obviously, if TM were willing to give the Bills the sweetheart deal Hwnry gave them because he wants some upfront money then resign him on the cheap, or if TD is kidnapped by aliens and he offers a sweetheart deal to TM then he should resign. However, neither party us likely to maximize their benefit by extending now. From the Bills perspective TM is signed cheaply through the 2006 season as many mid round draft picks are. However, even if TM were to play out his contract he would become a resticted free agent rather than an unrestricted free agent. In order to sign him an opponent would have to give TM a huge deal and part with significant draft resources for the Bills to get him. This has been done as big bucks Dan Snyder was willing to give up money and picks to NYJ to sign Morton. The Morton cas is similar to the McGee case in that he offers an outstanding KR value which might make him worth such an investment. However, most owners are not Dan Snyder (and cap constraints will soon make Dan Snyder unable to be the Dan Snyder of the past). Add to that a CB being important but less of a gamebreaker than WR Morton as a position player and TM getting some good INTs but still struggling to master the CB slot and the Bills have a couple of years before TM is a UFA and a real danger to leave the Bills, In that time, injury could easily lay him low or opponents will do as Chiefs opponents have done and developed ways to neutralize TM as has happened with Dante Hall. It is c;ear from the likely to make the playoffs position the Jets are in and impossible to make the playoffs even in a weak NFC position theSkins are in who benefitted more from the RFA reach which would be analagous to a TM signing. I don't extend if I am TM because a team would have to overlook my lack of leverage to sign me to a deal I think is worthwhile. 2. Clements- yes I lock him up and unfortunately have to pay Winfield/Vikes money to do so. We cannot afford to lose yet another CB and even if he is rarely challenged not because he is so good, but because McGee is an easier target, he is a definite gamebreaker in terms of his punt returns and his ability to get INTs and in particular turn them into TDs as he has several times in his career. 3. It would be great for continuit sake to resign Jennings, but given what the market had provided LTs in the past, I would not give him enough money to likely keep him here is Arthur Blank wants him to protect Michael Vick at the same level which saw him give too much FA money and a draft pick to the Bills to get Vick Peerless Price. Teams have gotten into the habit of investing top 10 OL money into LTs such that 8 of the top 10 OL salaries for OL players (franchise hits of the top 5 at $7 mill a year and transition hits for a top 10 average at $6 million). Jennings play is not worth the level of the outstanding LTs in my view nor can the team afford other allocations necessary for the OL, O, of team at this level. More pedestrian LTs like Clifton, Wade, and Pettigout have recently commanded annual salaries which are high but certainly lower than the top 10 cap hits. If Jennings gets op 10 money from Blank or someone or demands that to extend I say thanks but see ya. I think the Bills will likely have alternatives if Jennings commands big bucks. I'm not sure what will work and much depends on JMacs plans for building an entire OL but among the options at LT (most of which will not work but we onlneed one to work to replace him and one other as a sub) include: 1. Move Teague from center where many have hated him (though I have like his C play) to LT where he orginally wanted to be and showed with the Broncs he is certauinly up to the job. 2. See if Price can step up to be permanent and we can find adequate back-up to replace him. 3. Move MW to LT as most originally thought he would move now that he has seemed to recover the RT form we wanted. 4. Try Tucker out at tackle which he originally played in this league. Though LT is a big jump, Tucker makes the move which is more likely than Tucker, it allows Tucker to merely make the move to fill the new RT need. 5. Until our recent TE injuries, Peters was on the roster as a tackle, LT is too much responsibility for him likely but again if MW can make the move RT is unlikely for him to rise up to but is a possibility. 6. Resign Jennings at an affordable deal for the Bills. It is actually item 6 which I think is most likely for the Bills IF we resign Jennings. Though the LT contract market has blossomed, the irony here is that I think it actually may make Jenning affordable for us because the LT market is now mature and commitments have been made. Consider these factoids: 1. Alot of the LT money is locked up- Not only are 8 of the top 10 cap hits LTs, but teams like Chicago et al. have made major commitments to the second tier of LTs where folks like Wade, Clifton, and Petitgout have locked up major commtiments which takes many teams out of the market for Jennings and out of the picture as competition for the Bills. 2, Those looking hard for an LT are going to pay big dollars and will have to choose whether to spend the money on folks like Orlando Pace who is not in the top 10 salaries but will be entering the market- Not only will the demand for LTs be constrained as most teams have already committed big bucks to the position, but Jennings will not be at the top level of available LTs. 3. If the Bills do go FA to fill out the OL there likely will be cheaper options- Consider this, the Bills were able to get Trey Teague who was then viewed as our likely attempt at an LT answer for an annual salary of $3 million. Good OL players are available at a near rock-bottom cost if you scout well and negotiate hard. It simply far more complicated than going out and giving up the ranch and the dog for Jennings. If in fact, JMac becomes comfortable with MW making the move to LT, it frees the Bills to shop in the lower cost market for a FA RT or to try to develop someone internally. If Teague makes the move it gives us the ability to shop fow a center who may be pricey but will be of lower cost than an LT. 155342[/snapback] i don't know why you insist on making the "resign jennings" proposition so complicated.......i can tell you this very moment the ballpark number he will get from either the bills or another team -- it's not rocket science........he'll get a deal similar to clifton, similar to wade, similar to adams, and similar to pettigout.......they are all getting around 5 million a year with a 10 million signing bonus....... bills have to decide whether they want to pay it or not, that is it, no games needed,.......that is the market value, and he deserves the market value.........
34-78-83 Posted December 10, 2004 Posted December 10, 2004 i don't know why you insist on making the "resign jennings" proposition so complicated.......i can tell you this very moment the ballpark number he will get from either the bills or another team -- it's not rocket science........he'll get a deal similar to clifton, similar to wade, similar to adams, and similar to pettigout.......they are all getting around 5 million a year with a 10 million signing bonus....... bills have to decide whether they want to pay it or not, that is it, no games needed,.......that is the market value, and he deserves the market value......... 155385[/snapback] How concise!
Alaska Darin Posted December 10, 2004 Posted December 10, 2004 Look, an entire thread that completely covers why Steven has one of the coveted "ignore this poster" slots on AD's profile. Yeah!
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