Offensive Line

[Reddy Freddy]

If nothing else, this season should settle the age-old debate: Is it the QB or the offensive line?

 

It should now be clear to anyone with a pair of eyes that QB -- not offensive line -- is far and away the most important piece to the puzzle on any team. I know people think they sound knowledgeable when they say it all comes down to what happens in the trenches, but that's simply not the case.

 

A good QB makes up for a lot of deficiencies, including on the o-line. This is largely the same group of linemen we had last year, except for undrafted rookie Wrotto. Yet the line looks light years better this year. The difference, of course, is that we have competent -- and occasionally excellent -- play from the QB this season.

 

Don't get me wrong - I'm not saying the line doesn't matter. But a lot of teams excel with sub-par lines because they have very good QBs. The Packers and Colts come to mind. There is greater margin for error on the o-line than at QB. At the end of the day, they are all big, strong, 300+ pound men pushing each other around. Sure, some are better than others, but the gap isn't as great as it is at QB.

 

For years I've heard Bills fans excuse piss-poor QB play under the false premise that "no one could throw behind this o-line." If nothing else, Fitzy has proven them wrong.

[timba]

When the QB that you're replacing is Trent Edwards, of course your entire offense is going to be effected positively.

[BuffaloBill]

When the QB that you're replacing is Trent Edwards, of course your entire offense is going to be effected positively.

 

 

It is sad to see just how bad the QB situation was for so long. Good for Fitzbeard ... I started out negative to nuetral on him but am becoming more of a fan every week.

[Munch]

If nothing else, this season should settle the age-old debate: Is it the QB or the offensive line?

 

It should now be clear to anyone with a pair of eyes that QB -- not offensive line -- is far and away the most important piece to the puzzle on any team. I know people think they sound knowledgeable when they say it all comes down to what happens in the trenches, but that's simply not the case.

 

A good QB makes up for a lot of deficiencies, including on the o-line. This is largely the same group of linemen we had last year, except for undrafted rookie Wrotto. Yet the line looks light years better this year. The difference, of course, is that we have competent -- and occasionally excellent -- play from the QB this season.

 

Don't get me wrong - I'm not saying the line doesn't matter. But a lot of teams excel with sub-par lines because they have very good QBs. The Packers and Colts come to mind. There is greater margin for error on the o-line than at QB. At the end of the day, they are all big, strong, 300+ pound men pushing each other around. Sure, some are better than others, but the gap isn't as great as it is at QB.

 

For years I've heard Bills fans excuse piss-poor QB play under the false premise that "no one could throw behind this o-line." If nothing else, Fitzy has proven them wrong.

 

Fitzy has been very good, but the O Line looks WAY WAY better than it did last year. Its still not great, but they are light years ahead of last year in pass blocking. Give Fitzy tons of credit too, but the improvement on Offense this year has been on the O as a whole, including the line. And also dont forget the play calling is SLIGHTLY better too...

[jr1]

The line looks better without Trent's Bledsoeite gait

[Doc]

Fitzy has been very good, but the O Line looks WAY WAY better than it did last year. Its still not great, but they are light years ahead of last year in pass blocking. Give Fitzy tons of credit too, but the improvement on Offense this year has been on the O as a whole, including the line. And also dont forget the play calling is SLIGHTLY better too...

Bingo. The offense was sunk well before the season even began last year. I still however can't stand that Gailey was fooled by Edwards, and as a result the offense was set back to start the season.

[Cash]

Fitzy has been very good, but the O Line looks WAY WAY better than it did last year. Its still not great, but they are light years ahead of last year in pass blocking. Give Fitzy tons of credit too, but the improvement on Offense this year has been on the O as a whole, including the line. And also dont forget the play calling is SLIGHTLY better too...

 

The line looks better because of the QB. The C calls out the protections, but the QB determines them. When the QB recognizes a blitz and quickly unloads the ball, even for an incompletion, the o-line looks a lot better. When the QB has a pocket presence, and is able to step up to avoid the rush, instead of backing up then going sideways into the rush, it makes the line look a lot better. Put Trent Edwards back behind this line, and they will appear to magically regress to their earlier "horrible" play. They didn't look any better at pass blocking in the first 2 weeks then they did last year.

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

While I totally agree that the QB seems to made a huge difference, some is I think is also due to these guys all getting more experience. I do think they need to improve more on run blocking though, could be they spent the bulk of practicve time working on pass blocking the past year or soas thta seemed to be the weaker area of play?? Maybe a new RT would also help overall.

[The Big Cat]

The line looks better because of the QB. The C calls out the protections, but the QB determines them. When the QB recognizes a blitz and quickly unloads the ball, even for an incompletion, the o-line looks a lot better. When the QB has a pocket presence, and is able to step up to avoid the rush, instead of backing up then going sideways into the rush, it makes the line look a lot better. Put Trent Edwards back behind this line, and they will appear to magically regress to their earlier "horrible" play. They didn't look any better at pass blocking in the first 2 weeks then they did last year.

 

 

While I totally agree that the QB seems to made a huge difference, some is I think is also due to these guys all getting more experience. I do think they need to improve more on run blocking though, could be they spent the bulk of practicve time working on pass blocking the past year or soas thta seemed to be the weaker area of play?? Maybe a new RT would also help overall.

 

 

Experience has helped them tremendously, but we simply can't over look what the quarterback can do to stymie a defense's game plan.

 

Fact of the matter is, the line, the receivers, and Fitz are ALL getting different looks from opposing defenses now that they have to respect what our offense can do. With Trent back there, all they had to do was blitz (no offense line was up to the task of protecting him for the amount of time he "needed") and they'd be successful.

 

With Fitz, the opposite is true. He consistently makes defenses pay (hence our improved 3rd and long numbers?) with first down AND touchdown plays. He's forced the defense to respond to HIM, and it has slowed them down a great deal, thus giving our offensive line less to deal with, thus making them look a lot better.

[Fan in San Diego]

Experience has helped them tremendously, but we simply can't over look what the quarterback can do to stymie a defense's game plan.

 

Fact of the matter is, the line, the receivers, and Fitz are ALL getting different looks from opposing defenses now that they have to respect what our offense can do. With Trent back there, all they had to do was blitz (no offense line was up to the task of protecting him for the amount of time he "needed") and they'd be successful.

 

With Fitz, the opposite is true. He consistently makes defenses pay (hence our improved 3rd and long numbers?) with first down AND touchdown plays. He's forced the defense to respond to HIM, and it has slowed them down a great deal, thus giving our offensive line less to deal with, thus making them look a lot better.

 

+1

[Thoner7]

Good Point OP, but there are also instances of good QBs getting killed with no time to throw - like the first Quarter of this game.

 

QB is #1, 2 and 3, but OL and DL are both veryu important. Now if you wanted to talk about RBs, WRs and DBs....

[flomoe]

Bingo. The offense was sunk well before the season even began last year. I still however can't stand that Gailey was fooled by Edwards, and as a result the offense was set back to start the season.

 

 

Another poster in another post made an interesting observation regarding the Gailey/Edwards fiasco. He stated something to the point that it was Wilson that was so high on Edwards and Gailey was more or less covering-his-ass by annointing Edwards the starter. The poster mentioned that he thought both Nix and Gailey knew Edwards wasn't going to cut it and they put him out there knowing that he was going to fail miserably, more or less a sink or swim situation. WIlson's meddling with the QB situation started this season out on the wrong foot and it's taken several weeks for them to recover.

 

I can see where the poster makes some sense here. Obviously Gailey isn't a moron and he had to see what us fans had seen for the last few years with Edwards. The guy had no heart, no will or desire to become a leader, much less a productive part of this team. I don't see any other explanation except that maybe Fitz just didn't pick up Gailey's system right away, which most likely is not the case considering that Fitz is probably smarter than most of the people in that locker room collectively.

[Pirate Angel]

We beat 2 bad teams, hopefully it gives our oline some confidence. our tackles will most likely be blown up a few times this Sunday.

[RealityCheck]

If nothing else, this season should settle the age-old debate: Is it the QB or the offensive line?

 

It should now be clear to anyone with a pair of eyes that QB -- not offensive line -- is far and away the most important piece to the puzzle on any team. I know people think they sound knowledgeable when they say it all comes down to what happens in the trenches, but that's simply not the case.

 

A good QB makes up for a lot of deficiencies, including on the o-line. This is largely the same group of linemen we had last year, except for undrafted rookie Wrotto. Yet the line looks light years better this year. The difference, of course, is that we have competent -- and occasionally excellent -- play from the QB this season.

 

Don't get me wrong - I'm not saying the line doesn't matter. But a lot of teams excel with sub-par lines because they have very good QBs. The Packers and Colts come to mind. There is greater margin for error on the o-line than at QB. At the end of the day, they are all big, strong, 300+ pound men pushing each other around. Sure, some are better than others, but the gap isn't as great as it is at QB.

 

For years I've heard Bills fans excuse piss-poor QB play under the false premise that "no one could throw behind this o-line." If nothing else, Fitzy has proven them wrong.

We are 2 and 8 brother, and that is largely due to our inability to run the ball and stop the run, both of which get decided in the trenches. Did I mention already that we are 2 and 8? One more thing, by this time last year we did not have the same line, as I recall we had to access the practice squad on a regular basis. Has it occurred to you that winning a Super Bowl might require both a QB and O-line that is playing at a high level. BOTH my friend.

[SoggyHog]

Look at it this way: Take Fitz out of that game and put in Trent. Same line, same game plan, same defensive looks. Do we win that game? No. It all starts with the QB. Your team is only as good as your QB. Having one great LT or DB or DE will not win a game for you, but having one great QB may win multiple games for you.

 

Name one OL on the Colts or Pats that was an elite player in the past 10 years. Hard to do. Now, name their QB's. There is a reason those teams win. The play of the QB.

 

Same goes for the Fitz/Luck threads on TBD. If you have a chance to draft a potential franchise QB......YOU DO IT!

[Munch]

Look at it this way: Take Fitz out of that game and put in Trent. Same line, same game plan, same defensive looks. Do we win that game? No. It all starts with the QB. Your team is only as good as your QB. Having one great LT or DB or DE will not win a game for you, but having one great QB may win multiple games for you.

 

Name one OL on the Colts or Pats that was an elite player in the past 10 years. Hard to do. Now, name their QB's. There is a reason those teams win. The play of the QB.

 

Same goes for the Fitz/Luck threads on TBD. If you have a chance to draft a potential franchise QB......YOU DO IT!

 

There is a reason this is debated so heavily. It boils down to needing good OLine play and good QB play. If you are missing one or the other, its very difficult to make it work. Fitz has been GREAT, and the Oline SOLID. Last Year both were bad. Its like the wheels on a bike, if you lose the front tire (Oline), you probably wont get far.

 

Unless you are a trick rider, and can do a wheelie (an elite QB).

 

Ok maybe that was a bad analogy, but you get the picture. 2 pieces make the puzzle, and you need both to be successful in the NFL.

[GaryPinC]

Another poster in another post made an interesting observation regarding the Gailey/Edwards fiasco. He stated something to the point that it was Wilson that was so high on Edwards and Gailey was more or less covering-his-ass by annointing Edwards the starter. The poster mentioned that he thought both Nix and Gailey knew Edwards wasn't going to cut it and they put him out there knowing that he was going to fail miserably, more or less a sink or swim situation. WIlson's meddling with the QB situation started this season out on the wrong foot and it's taken several weeks for them to recover.

 

I can see where the poster makes some sense here. Obviously Gailey isn't a moron and he had to see what us fans had seen for the last few years with Edwards. The guy had no heart, no will or desire to become a leader, much less a productive part of this team. I don't see any other explanation except that maybe Fitz just didn't pick up Gailey's system right away, which most likely is not the case considering that Fitz is probably smarter than most of the people in that locker room collectively.

 

If you believe it was a Wilson conspiracy, that's fine. I just don't understand why some folks find it so hard to believe that Gailey was willing to give Edwards another chance under new tutelage? Chan looked at Edwards' game films, couldn't distinguish Trent's ineptitude from Jauron's and decided to wipe the slate clean for Trent. Trent came in, did well in OTA's, training camp, and preseason. In preseason, I thought he looked a lot more confident and was making more throws downfield. Regular season came and same old Trent. Gailey coached him up for a couple weeks (he has had success with marginal Qb's in the past) realized Trent wasn't going to change and cut him promptly.

 

I thought Gailey did a good job of making sure it wasn't a mistake to let Trent go. Why does there have to be more to it than this?

[1B4IDie]

If nothing else, this season should settle the age-old debate: Is it the QB or the offensive line?

 

It should now be clear to anyone with a pair of eyes that QB -- not offensive line -- is far and away the most important piece to the puzzle on any team. I know people think they sound knowledgeable when they say it all comes down to what happens in the trenches, but that's simply not the case.

 

A good QB makes up for a lot of deficiencies, including on the o-line. This is largely the same group of linemen we had last year, except for undrafted rookie Wrotto. Yet the line looks light years better this year. The difference, of course, is that we have competent -- and occasionally excellent -- play from the QB this season.

 

Don't get me wrong - I'm not saying the line doesn't matter. But a lot of teams excel with sub-par lines because they have very good QBs. The Packers and Colts come to mind. There is greater margin for error on the o-line than at QB. At the end of the day, they are all big, strong, 300+ pound men pushing each other around. Sure, some are better than others, but the gap isn't as great as it is at QB.

 

For years I've heard Bills fans excuse piss-poor QB play under the false premise that "no one could throw behind this o-line." If nothing else, Fitzy has proven them wrong.

Actually 3/5 of the line is different from last year.

Wood was injured and Bell didn't play but a few games in 2009.

 

So its a little more complicated than putting a good QB behind a bad line.

 

Please refer to the "Official the O-Line Does not Suck any more thread"

 

http://forums.twobillsdrive.com/topic/123315-the-official-the-o-line-does-not-suck-anymore-thread/page__st__20

 

Things change overtime, and the O-Line has developed into a serviceable group along with the much better play of Fitzy.

Edited November 23, 2010 by Why So Serious?

[PromoTheRobot]

I took the time to re-watch the Cinci game and I gotta say that the O-line is still hit-or-miss. What helps them is Fitz's mobility, pocket presence and quick throws. Hard to say if it's a lack of talent or players still learning the job.

 

PTR