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Eli's brutal season continues

1billsfan

By 1billsfan
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1billsfan All Pro

1billsfan

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Last two weeks he's had the Eagles, Washington's defense to contend with. Next up is the Ravens and Steelers... :blink::blink: I think the Giants might be ruining this guy before his career even starts. The Ravens are going to eat him up. I'm so glad the Bills did not have to throw Losman out there like the Giants have done with Manning. Watch and learn JP.

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1billsfan All Pro

1billsfan

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Horses for courses - but I think the Giants felt like Warner was always just a stop gap QB biding time for Eli to go in there. I guess they get him out there early to get the reps now so next season isn't a waste.

 

Our situation is different (now that we are winning).

154219[/snapback]

 

Yeah but throw him out there when he's not ready? You don't set a rookie QB up for failure like they are doing without possibly ruining his psyche.

 

I'm just glad our guy will sit till he's truly ready.

 

As a side note, I like Losman's demeaner a whole lot better when compared to Mannings. Eli seems real slow in the brain department when he talks.

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ICE Veteran

ICE

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Ruining this guys career? LMAO then he is a kitty and doesn't need to be in the NFL period. the Best play against the best and get better by playing against the best.

 

If Manning has sac one then this will make him MUCH Better come next year.

 

And would one of you clowns define 'ready'? How is it a rookie isn't 'ready' unless he sits? Only by PLAYING do you get 'ready' Peyton did it and now look. Marino did it and look at what he did. Aikman did it, etc. Carson Palmer? Didn't start getting decent until he had GAMES plural under his belt.

 

You guys have no fuggin clue about sports in general. Sitting does NOTHING in sports but make your butt sore. It is better to go out and get your ass kicked and LEARN from your mistakes than sit on your ass....delaying the fact you WILL go out and get your ass kicked.

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1billsfan All Pro

1billsfan

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Ruining this guys career? LMAO then he is a kitty and doesn't need to be in the NFL period.  the Best play against the best and get better by playing against the best.

 

If Manning has sac one then this will make him MUCH Better come next year.

 

And would one of you clowns define 'ready'?  How is it a rookie isn't 'ready' unless he sits? Only by PLAYING do you get 'ready'  Peyton did it and now look. Marino did it and look at what he did. Aikman did it, etc.  Carson Palmer?  Didn't start getting decent until he had GAMES plural under his belt.

 

You guys have no fuggin clue about sports in general. Sitting does NOTHING in sports but make your butt sore. It is better to go out and get your ass kicked and LEARN from your mistakes than sit on your ass....delaying the fact you WILL go out and get your ass kicked.

154244[/snapback]

 

Well with the Giants pathetic offensive line woes Eli had better turn into his father pretty quickly. I remember my days as a young pup watching this guy named Archie Manning get his ass kicked when he wasn't throwing touchdown passes. Eli looks like a lost boy and going against these killer defenses will no doubt make him seem like a bust. Fast forward to next season, ANY carry over of bad play on Manning's part and the bright lights of New York will start to fry him. He simply was not ready this season. You mention the exceptions to the rule with your list of QBs. That's the funny thing about exceptions, it is not the norm and comes about only on rare occasions. File that in your clue box.

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Guest Guest_billsfaninfla_*

Guest Guest_billsfaninfla_*

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here you go again ice you think you have the answer play jp because he needs to that is what you say however the truth is you are just scared to death the bills may just do something whit bledsoe and this would just flat out make you wrong now I am not saying this will happen however if it does it may just be almost as much fun watching you try to spin that as watching the bills win please keep posting because I for one enjoy reading your post and trying to figure out if you a real fan or just someone who loves to B word

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JStranger76 Veteran

JStranger76

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I said before the draft when ForeverMoron and others were posting the "trade everything to get Manning crap" that Manning was just the name on the back of the jersey. This guy is nothing like his brother and will turn into a Vinnie Testeverde at best. The Giants should of just stood pat and took Rivers or Hamburger if they wanted a QB that bad. Nice job New Jersey! :blink:

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CosmicBills Veteran

CosmicBills

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With another QB I would be worried about his psyche being negatively affected. But the one thing Eli has going for him is his lineage. I don't think he is the best QB of the 2004 class (never thought that) but the one thing he has is mental toughness. He knew full well what to expect. He will be fine.

 

Will he be his brother? Probably not. But I think he will be a fine pro.

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kota Veteran

kota

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Yeah but throw him out there when he's not ready? You don't set a rookie QB up for failure like they are doing without possibly ruining his psyche.

 

I'm just glad our guy will sit till he's truly ready.

 

As a side note, I like Losman's demeaner a whole lot better when compared to Mannings. Eli seems real slow in the brain department when he talks.

154230[/snapback]

 

 

I can see why your wife left you.

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Fake-Fat Sunny Veteran

Fake-Fat Sunny

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And would one of you clowns define 'ready'?  How is it a rookie isn't 'ready' unless he sits? Only by PLAYING do you get 'ready'  Peyton did it and now look. Marino did it and look at what he did. Aikman did it, etc.  Carson Palmer?  Didn't start getting decent until he had GAMES plural under his belt.

 

154244[/snapback]

 

 

Howdy ICE (and anyone who cares ir us amused enough by thie repetition to pay any attention) , I'm happy to take a crack at this as I am just back from a nice business trip to NYC and even posting on this beaten to death issue will be helpful for getting me back into the Bills swing of things.

 

First, the major fault in the point of view you express is the word ONLY.

 

The fact is that there are many things which are useful for the preparation of a QB to contribute in this league and while playing is certainly an essential one of them, iy is not the only thing a rookie needs to become a vet and in particular a QB needs to contribute to his team. Playing is essential but for some players it doesn't come first.

 

Specifically, in order to contribute and to be more of a vet than a rookie, it strikes me that a QB needs:

 

1. Athleticism to play and contribute against pro athletes and at NFL speeds- The speed difference of the game is something virtually all players seem to mention as the biggest notable difference as the move to pro ball from college. I perceive a lot of this come from in the college game usually only 1 or 2 opponents play at MFL speeds and as a pro they all do. I think this is one of the main things a player gets from playing the game and nothing really is the same as playing against opponents who want to kill you and have the size and speed to do it. However, there is the large piece of reality that playing is actually finishing school for this factor as first every athlete plays serious against pro speed and NFL players in practice. Its not the same as a real game because the opponents are not trying to kill you (unless you are JP and rubbed your wearing of the practice tutu in TV and the Ds face enough that they take the opportunity that any game provides to not go out their way to hold back.

 

Still I agree that only by playing can an athlete get a serious and the best sense of this, though even in this case the player must first get a taste of this in practice and show enough mastery to protect himself before you put him in a real game to perfect this part of his game.

 

2. Understanding and anticipating NFL defenses- Here again playing adds an essential element for a player as by all I have heard, the game looks different over the center's back, however, understanding the basics is so essential that to send a player into the game to play without him having a fundamental sense of the game which he will get from studying the playbook and watching tapes that it is rediculous to say that this only comes from playing.

 

Particularly in the case of a QB who comes out of an offense that has nothing to do with the pro game (this is why many QBs were simply shifted to the safety position) or a player like JP who made great plays running for his life rather than running set plays the first thing they need to do is demonstrate that they have grasped the playbook and the tapes well enough to do themselves or their teammates some good.

 

If you think that the classroom stuff is meaningless to playing the game well enough, I ask only that you remember back to Billy Joe Hobert who clearly demonstated that without attention to the off-field side of the equation, physical ability even for an experienced pro simply adds up to a bad and meaningless game.

 

3. Mechanics are key- chemistry is built between two players when they develop a second sense of what the other player is going to do in a given situation. In the NFL one might learn that and how a player will freelance in a given situation, but it is again simply rediculous in an oversystematized NFL to expect chemistry to be developed between players when the QB throws it differently each time. Losman in particular from the highlights I saw and the description of the professionals who saw him even more had worked with the ability to make off-balance throws and off the wrong foot. While this cut the mustard at Tulane where the vast majority of opponents were not fast enough to catch up with rainbow throws Losman was making off the wrong foot, pro defenders would eat him alive if he did this. Even worse with the Evans and folks of the world no chemistry would be developede or it would develop slowly if JP was making college level throws all the time. This work of ironing out mechanics is slow and hard from all I have heard and is best done in practice under the watchful eye of Wyche with scrubs or ball boys there to feed JP.

 

4. Leadership is esssential for a QB- Obviously JP being in the company of the boys us essential to developing this leadership so being a teammate and around the team is essential. However, nothing suceeds like success and JP needs to be in position where his games are far more than simple learning experiences where he makes mistakes, but actually situations where he experiences success which builds his confidence and the team experiences success under him. This is the difference from a world of JP where it is like he was in the NE game or the world of JP as he as in the Seattle blow out. I think you miss the boat completely when you did not see the great value (particularly after the NE debacle) him successfully handing the ball off to WM and leading the team to a TD under his guidance. The score was an achievement for any QB in this league as it actually seems rare when the lead the team to a TD at all. If you think this was so simple then explain for yourself why the NE game was so bad (another argument also why prep is necessary if you feel he was thrown into the game) and the lack of command he showed with an immediate delay of game penalty even in this successful outing. Leadership is something he will perfect only by playing but he will perfect it only by playing well.

 

There are probably other things you could parse out but I think (and hope) this will do for now.

 

The second fault in your past arguments (though you don't make it specifically here so maybe you have learned the errors of your past thinking)is that starting is not the only way to play. Players do fact NFL opponents at NFL speeds. see the game over the center's back, and do other important game simlulations in practice. They aren't the same as playing, but if a player can't master these simulations he is not ready to play. Most important for a players development however is that before he starts he can and usually should be given ample opportunities TO PLAY in a mop up role in games. Why you are so addicted to having JP start when he can PLAY in games as a sub is beyond me.

 

In summary, how can a player not be ready to start-

 

1. If he has not had enough practice against his own team to protect himself against opponents, a player can hurt himself by starting if the result is going to be he gets hurt and knocked ot of games. Given that JP even got hurt in practice, i is clear the coaches must be sure he will protect himself adequately in real games before sending him out there to play a full 60.

 

2, If JP has not adequately demonstrated to the braintrust that he has sufficient understanding of NFL offense and defenses, not only will he play like a Hobert, but he will do his own development little good if not harm. In particular, is a QB does not learn how to adequately read blitzes, he can develop happy feet as TC did and be ruined.

 

3. He obviously must have pro mechanics not develop bad habits for himself and to develop good chemistry.

 

4. I think he has the spirt and Kelly like cockiness to be a good leader, but he needs to suceed to build true leadership and confidence and the braintrust must feel that he is ready in terms of mechanics, being more like a vet and protecting himself in order to develop his leadership.

 

If JP is missing any or all of the elements he probably is not ready.

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