Jake Locker and Washington VS UCLA on ESPN Now......

[Offside Number 76]

Locker was 10 of 21 for 68 yards and an interception

 

The int was Trentastic, too.

[zow2]

The Panthers will DEFINITELY take Luck if they have a chance. I have to think that they see that Claussen is not going to be an elite QB. It's a QB-driven league. If a great one comes along, you take him.

 

I've been wanting Mallett for 2 years now so I'm not stressing over whether Carolina takes Luck or not. Whatever happens, happens. I'm even rooting for the Bills to win their last seven games....is that crazy or what?!?

[Offside Number 76]

I'm not worried about the Panthers taking Luck. After drafting Clausen AND Pike in last year's draft, I can't imagine them taking another QB with the number 1 pick.

 

I agree.

[1B4IDie]

This is precisely why I see Luck declaring for the draft this year. Someone will tell him his stock is high right now, so get out while you can. Yes, Locker's playing hurt, but that's not the point. Luck's stock is too high for him to not pass this up.

Locker was never really highly regarded by anyone besides Kiper and McShay.

Locker went back to school because he had a second or third round grade in reality.

Luck will be the #1 pick in 2011 and 2012.

 

When the CBA expires in March 2011 no one can be signed. Rookie or Vet. This is a fact.

 

So why would a player spend 6-12 months waiting for the CBA to be finalized, and not getting paid because owners cannot sign anyone when they can go play ball in school and be the big man on campus another year.

[KOKBILLS]

This is precisely why I see Luck declaring for the draft this year. Someone will tell him his stock is high right now, so get out while you can. Yes, Locker's playing hurt, but that's not the point. Luck's stock is too high for him to not pass this up.

 

I think the final decision may very well hinge on Harbaugh's future...If Harbaugh leaves then Luck is REALLY gambling by staying...I imagine the Kid feels as long as his HC (who played QB in the NFL) is around he'll be able to keep his status...Like or dislike Harbaugh, I think it's clear he's doing a damn good job highlighting Luck's strengths and disguising his weaknesses...

 

Lets not forget too that Sam Bradford missed most of his Sr. Year with an injury and was still Drafted #1...And there were PLENTY of folks who questioned Bradford's toughness...So there is also precedence going the other way...

[NoSaint]

I've been wanting Mallett for 2 years now so I'm not stressing over whether Carolina takes Luck or not. Whatever happens, happens. I'm even rooting for the Bills to win their last seven games....is that crazy or what?!?

 

For the sake of transparency - I agree. There were time last year people laughed at an Arkansas score early and I'd laugh and tell them to just wait.... I think by making people watch I convinced quite a few. Razorbacks didn't win em all but they were typically closer then they shouldve been. I don't feel the same about UW

[K Gun Special]

Locker was never really highly regarded by anyone besides Kiper and McShay.

Locker went back to school because he had a second or third round grade in reality.

Luck will be the #1 pick in 2011 and 2012.

 

When the CBA expires in March 2011 no one can be signed. Rookie or Vet. This is a fact.

 

So why would a player spend 6-12 months waiting for the CBA to be finalized, and not getting paid because owners cannot sign anyone when they can go play ball in school and be the big man on campus another year.

 

Is it a fact? where are you getting that from? would current players contracts then be voided? I have seen nothing to show that teams would be precluded from signing players during a lockout, although it is unlikely they would.

 

I think the reality is that 6-12 for a CBA to be finalized is an exaggeration. They would only be modifying the agreement that was in place and it wouldnt take anywhere near that long.

 

There will be a 2011 draft, and depending on the new CBA a rookie cap might not even apply until the following draft. It would be unfair to declaring recruits to impose a cap after they declared, as it is unlikely any deal gets finalized until after the season.

 

A new CBA is being discussed, and they are not as far off as you might think. The owners have no interest in letting the agreement expire in the spring, precisely when Season ticket holders have to renew.

[1B4IDie]

I think the final decision may very well hinge on Harbaugh's future...If Harbaugh leaves then Luck is REALLY gambling by staying...I imagine the Kid feels as long as his HC (who played QB in the NFL) is around he'll be able to keep his status...Like or dislike Harbaugh, I think it's clear he's doing a damn good job highlighting Luck's strengths and disguising his weaknesses...

 

Lets not forget too that Sam Bradford missed most of his Sr. Year with an injury and was still Drafted #1...And there were PLENTY of folks who questioned Bradford's toughness...So there is also precedence going the other way...

I agree with this.

This is the one scenario where it does make sense for Luck to get drafted into the NFLPA picket lines.

If Harbaugh does leave then Luck can go learn a new offense in the NFL, whenever that will be, just as easy as Stanford.

 

I personally have no read on this. Rich Rod was a deadman walking in Michigan from day 1 is about all I personally know.

 

People have brought that up many times. If Harbaugh does jump then I would agree that Luck would jump.

Otherwise he has a good thing going at Stanford with an uncertain labor situation in the NFL, it's very likely he stays in.

[K Gun Special]

I agree with this.

This is the one scenario where it does make sense for Luck to get drafted into the NFLPA picket lines.

If Harbaugh does leave then Luck can go learn a new offense in the NFL, whenever that will be, just as easy as Stanford.

 

I personally have no read on this. Rich Rod was a deadman walking in Michigan from day 1 is about all I personally know.

 

People have brought that up many times. If Harbaugh does jump then I would agree that Luck would jump.

Otherwise he has a good thing going at Stanford with an uncertain labor situation in the NFL, it's very likely he stays in.

 

I dont think there's a strong chance of a lockout. The owners are making too much money to do that.

 

Besides, Luck could declare and purchase insurance in the case of a lockout.

[Albany,n.y.]

I'm not worried about the Panthers taking Luck. After drafting Clausen AND Pike in last year's draft, I can't imagine them taking another QB with the number 1 pick.

The way Clausen & Pike have played, there's no way Carolina would pass on Luck. Add a new head coach with no ties to Clausen & it's a lock Carolina would pick Luck if they're drafting 1st.

If for some absurd reason the new coach loves Clausen, then Carolina is going to do what any sane GM would do with the number 1 pick with other teams coveting the franchise QB-they'll trade it to the highest bidder. I just can't see any sane coach falling in love with Clausen enough to prevent him from drafting Luck himself.

For anyone who thinks drafting a QB one year & not going after a franchise QB, if available, remember this. When the Cowboys drafted Aikman, they also chose Steve Walsh the same year in the supplemental draft. They eventually traded Walsh. When the Jets signed Joe Namath, they also signed Heisman winner John Huarte. Having Clausen & Pike(who is going to the bench in favor of a guy who was home 2 weeks ago) will not prevent Carolina from taking Luck.

The only way the Bills can get Luck is by holding the #1 pick.

[altleg]

I dont think there's a strong chance of a lockout. The owners are making too much money to do that.

 

Besides, Luck could declare and purchase insurance in the case of a lockout.

 

If I was the insurance underwriter I think I'd charge him $8 million for a $10 million dollar coverage -- building in an assumption that a lockout is 80% likely.

[Haven Moses]

Locker is this year's Jevon Snead. Pre-season can't miss to post season oblivion.

[1B4IDie]

Is it a fact? where are you getting that from? would current players contracts then be voided? I have seen nothing to show that teams would be precluded from signing players during a lockout, although it is unlikely they would.

 

I think the reality is that 6-12 for a CBA to be finalized is an exaggeration. They would only be modifying the agreement that was in place and it wouldnt take anywhere near that long.

 

There will be a 2011 draft, and depending on the new CBA a rookie cap might not even apply until the following draft. It would be unfair to declaring recruits to impose a cap after they declared, as it is unlikely any deal gets finalized until after the season.

 

A new CBA is being discussed, and they are not as far off as you might think. The owners have no interest in letting the agreement expire in the spring, precisely when Season ticket holders have to renew.

 

 

I dont think there's a strong chance of a lockout. The owners are making too much money to do that.

 

Besides, Luck could declare and purchase insurance in the case of a lockout.

 

I don't mean this as a personal attack but you're really out of tune with the labor contract.

Its not a re-neg, the CBA was voted out by the owners in March of 2008, 2009 was the last year of the CBA, then the "uncapped year" which is 2010, is a proviso to ensure that there is football for one more year while the two sides negotiate.

 

If the owners didn't want a lockout they wold have used the uncapped year to re-negotiate. There are no negotiations going on, there isn't a meeting scheduled until December.

 

The owners absolutely want a lockout. They know that the NFL players don't have the war chest to last and the NFL owners will get what they want.

 

Read this article:

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=ms-laborquestions090810

 

Its much better than a Mort Report Tweet that there will be no rookie salary cap in 2011.

 

I know you're basing your opinion on what you think is common sense. The NFL Owners are looking at the long view. If you look at the MLB and past lockouts, the fans will be there in 2011, 2012, or 2013 the owners have a war chest, the players don't. The owners feel they got a raw deal in the last CBA and are going to do whatever they can to get the deal the way they want it in the next CBA.

 

This is the reality.

 

If there’s a lockout, will there still be a draft next spring?

 

Yes, but it won’t be business as usual for the teams or for the players they select. With no CBA in place, teams won’t be able to sign players, and those post-draft minicamps will be non-existent. Also, in the absence of a CBA, the league’s ability to generate revenues from the new crop of big-name draftees will be limited. In other words, if you want to purchase one of those sweet new Jake Locker jerseys in the aftermath of his being drafted, you’ll have to buy one without his name on the back of it or wait until a new CBA is signed.

[K Gun Special]

I don't mean this as a personal attack but you're really out of tune with the labor contract.

Its not a re-neg, the CBA was voted out by the owners in March of 2008, 2009 was the last year of the CBA, then the "uncapped year" which is 2010, is a proviso to ensure that there is football for one more year while the two sides negotiate.

 

If the owners didn't want a lockout they wold have used the uncapped year to re-negotiate. There are no negotiations going on, there isn't a meeting scheduled until December.

 

The owners absolutely want a lockout. They know that the NFL players don't have the war chest to last and the NFL owners will get what they want.

 

Read this article:

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=ms-laborquestions090810

 

Its much better than a Mort Report Tweet that there will be no rookie salary cap in 2011.

 

I know you're basing your opinion on what you think is common sense. The NFL Owners are looking at the long view. If you look at the MLB and past lockouts, the fans will be there in 2011, 2012, or 2013 the owners have a war chest, the players don't. The owners feel they got a raw deal in the last CBA and are going to do whatever they can to get the deal the way they want it in the next CBA.

 

This is the reality.

 

If there’s a lockout, will there still be a draft next spring?

 

Yes, but it won’t be business as usual for the teams or for the players they select. With no CBA in place, teams won’t be able to sign players, and those post-draft minicamps will be non-existent. Also, in the absence of a CBA, the league’s ability to generate revenues from the new crop of big-name draftees will be limited. In other words, if you want to purchase one of those sweet new Jake Locker jerseys in the aftermath of his being drafted, you’ll have to buy one without his name on the back of it or wait until a new CBA is signed.

 

 

Im not out of tune. Negotiations are ongoing; the PA just made a counter proposal. http://nfl.fanhouse.com/2010/11/18/thursday-and-long-why-would-players-give-in-on-18-game-season/

 

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=ys-nfllabor111810

http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/feed/2010-09/nfl-labor-talks/story/nfl-nflpa-release-joint-statement-on-cba-negotiations

 

I understand that the owners opted out of the current CBA. But when crafting a new CBA they simply incorporate 90% of the old one and change only the relevant parts. So taking 6-12 months to a year to finalize inst correct.

 

As for the uncapped year point, owners knew the uncapped year wouldn't result in a spike in costs bc there are more severe rules for player movement in an uncapped year. Besides, there was no ticking clock to negotiate against, as there is now.

 

To the article you cited, there is nothing preventing owners from signing players after the CBA expires. They certainly could sign replacement players for next year. Additionally players have voted to approve decertification giving them a status that will prevent owners from legally locking them out.

 

There is a lot of posturing going on for sure.

[Cannon]

I'm not worried about the Panthers taking Luck. After drafting Clausen AND Pike in last year's draft, I can't imagine them taking another QB with the number 1 pick.

They actually also drafted Armani Edwards as a WR last year, but now he is the 3rd string QB with their injury problems, something to keep am eye on

[1B4IDie]

Im not out of tune. Negotiations are ongoing; the PA just made a counter proposal. http://nfl.fanhouse.com/2010/11/18/thursday-and-long-why-would-players-give-in-on-18-game-season/

 

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=ys-nfllabor111810

http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/feed/2010-09/nfl-labor-talks/story/nfl-nflpa-release-joint-statement-on-cba-negotiations

 

I understand that the owners opted out of the current CBA. But when crafting a new CBA they simply incorporate 90% of the old one and change only the relevant parts. So taking 6-12 months to a year to finalize inst correct.

 

As for the uncapped year point, owners knew the uncapped year wouldn't result in a spike in costs bc there are more severe rules for player movement in an uncapped year. Besides, there was no ticking clock to negotiate against, as there is now.

 

To the article you cited, there is nothing preventing owners from signing players after the CBA expires. They certainly could sign replacement players for next year. Additionally players have voted to approve decertification giving them a status that will prevent owners from legally locking them out.

 

There is a lot of posturing going on for sure.

I guess you're not out of tune, you're just seeing what you want to see.

Did you actually read the articles you linked to, because they kinda prove my point that players probably won't be signed and that there will be a lockout.

 

Check this out:

 

http://www.nflplayers.com/Articles/CBA-News/Lockout-Steps/

August 2010: NFL team executives negotiated contracts of the 2010 first-round draft picks to reflect the belief there will be a lockout in 2011 by changing the payment date of option bonuses from the first two weeks of the league year, which begins in March, to around the time the first regular-season game is played in 2011, whenever that may be.

I guess you can call that posturing.

 

Also the fact that part of a an NFL contract process is an NFLPA approved agent negotiating the contract and must have NFLPA approval. So if you think that the NFLPA and NFL are going to be aside the CBA negotiations and the NFL owners are going sign rookies to gigantic contracts which is a negotiation topic in the CBA than have the NFLPA approve the gigantic contracts you're really not seeing whats going on here.

 

So yes the NFL can sign scab players outside of the NFLPA but its not likely, that a drafted player is going to sign a scab contract.

 

Being De certified, is called the "nuclear bomb" which means that the NFL is no longer a regulated monopoly by the Federal Government and the players can sign anywhere including the UFL.

The UFL is basically in business betting on a 2011 lockout. Free Agents can play in the UFL instead of cross picket lines and scab on the NFLPA. I don't know about players under contract.

 

You have to realize that you are a little out of tune with anyone paying attention to the situation. All signs are pointing to a lockout.

Its not just a simple, lets tidy up this 10% and move on, type of a thing if it were the deadline for March 2011 has been there for 2 years and no one has made any real progress.

The NFLPA thinks there will be a lockout, the owners think there will be a lockout, the lenders to the NFL think there will be a lockout and in January of 2011 when college players have to declare the college players are definitely going to hear it from their coaches and family that there is going to be a lockout.

 

Although K Gun Special will tell you, no big deal 90% is in the bag, don't worry, the Owners will give you 80 million when you sign, no problem.

Edited November 19, 2010 by Levitre + Wang = Wood

[The Senator]

This is precisely why I see Luck declaring for the draft this year. Someone will tell him his stock is high right now, so get out while you can. Yes, Locker's playing hurt, but that's not the point. Luck's stock is too high for him to not pass this up.

Can he declare and get drafted today? After all, I'd hate to see how far down his stock will plummet should Standford lose to Cal tomorrow!

 

Guy's already got a full season and a half of PAC 10 college ball under his belt to assure us he'll be a guaranteed Pro Bowl QB - if I were Andy, I'd sit out the rest of the season. Why risk having a bad game and losing $$$millions$$$ ???

Edited November 19, 2010 by The Senator

[K Gun Special]

I guess you're not out of tune, you're just seeing what you want to see.

Did you actually read the articles you linked to, because they kinda prove my point that players probably won't be signed and that there will be a lockout.

 

Check this out:

 

http://www.nflplayers.com/Articles/CBA-News/Lockout-Steps/

August 2010: NFL team executives negotiated contracts of the 2010 first-round draft picks to reflect the belief there will be a lockout in 2011 by changing the payment date of option bonuses from the first two weeks of the league year, which begins in March, to around the time the first regular-season game is played in 2011, whenever that may be.

I guess you can call that posturing.

 

Also the fact that part of a an NFL contract process is an NFLPA approved agent negotiating the contract and must have NFLPA approval. So if you think that the NFLPA and NFL are going to be aside the CBA negotiations and the NFL owners are going sign rookies to gigantic contracts which is a negotiation topic in the CBA than have the NFLPA approve the gigantic contracts you're really not seeing whats going on here.

 

So yes the NFL can sign scab players outside of the NFLPA but its not likely, that a drafted player is going to sign a scab contract.

 

Being De certified, is called the "nuclear bomb" which means that the NFL is no longer a regulated monopoly by the Federal Government and the players can sign anywhere including the UFL.

The UFL is basically in business betting on a 2011 lockout. Free Agents can play in the UFL instead of cross picket lines and scab on the NFLPA. I don't know about players under contract.

 

You have to realize that you are a little out of tune with anyone paying attention to the situation. All signs are pointing to a lockout.

Its not just a simple, lets tidy up this 10% and move on, type of a thing if it were the deadline for March 2011 has been there for 2 years and no one has made any real progress.

The NFLPA thinks there will be a lockout, the owners think there will be a lockout, the lenders to the NFL think there will be a lockout and in January of 2011 when college players have to declare the college players are definitely going to hear it from their coaches and family that there is going to be a lockout.

 

Although K Gun Special will tell you, no big deal 90% is in the bag, don't worry, the Owners will give you 80 million when you sign, no problem.

 

The CBA requires an NFLPA agent to sign a contract. With no CBA there is no longer a requirement. Its technical yes, but its still unlikely a former union player crosses.

 

Roughly 90% of the former CBA will be re-incorporated into the new one whenever it is signed. The basic structure will remain in place.

 

Things will be modified like rookie scale, season length, and % of shared revenue. To imply they are starting from scratch is wrong.

 

You can keep taking shots i dont mind, i can assure you ive negotiated many contracts, and not one of them starts from scratch, especially when you are basically modifying a previously existing deal.

 

Of course all sides are saying there is going to be a lockout, its called posturing. Do you really think they Yankees arent going to sign Jeter because they told him to test the open market? no, its posturing.

 

Do you really think powerful owners like Jerry jones, who has enormous debt obligations from his new stadium is going to forego all that TV and ticket money ? cmon man dont get caught in the hype look at the big picture.

[1B4IDie]

The CBA requires an NFLPA agent to sign a contract. With no CBA there is no longer a requirement. Its technical yes, but its still unlikely a former union player crosses.

 

Roughly 90% of the former CBA will be re-incorporated into the new one whenever it is signed. The basic structure will remain in place.

 

Things will be modified like rookie scale, season length, and % of shared revenue. To imply they are starting from scratch is wrong.

 

You can keep taking shots i dont mind, i can assure you ive negotiated many contracts, and not one of them starts from scratch, especially when you are basically modifying a previously existing deal.

 

Of course all sides are saying there is going to be a lockout, its called posturing. Do you really think they Yankees arent going to sign Jeter because they told him to test the open market? no, its posturing.

 

Do you really think powerful owners like Jerry jones, who has enormous debt obligations from his new stadium is going to forego all that TV and ticket money ? cmon man dont get caught in the hype look at the big picture.

I never implied they are starting from scratch, I don't know where you got that from. I implied that that 10% is a little more sticky then you believe.

 

The TV money is guaranteed if there are no games, The owners negotiated that in the contract.

That's what will activate the Nuclear bomb, when the regular season starts and the owners are still collecting TV revenue while the players are out in the cold.

The Nuclear bomb to summarize basically puts the TV contract in jeopardy and the CBS and FOX can stop paying and take legal action to void the contract; or the won't because they don't NBC or VS to be favored in a new contract after the lockout and the owners are still sitting pretty collecting checks.

 

If the TV contract is voided there would be no football in 2011 for sure. It will get really messy and both sides don't want this. I do think that the CBA will be straightened out before August.

 

You can brush everything off as posturing if you want, and hey maybe they come to agreement in early march, Jerry Jones and some NFLPA guy say they ironed it out over some beers in Dallas and they both look like heroes. But the point being if they do agree to a new CBA, why would the rookie contract pool not start until 2012? The NFLPA and NFL both agree in principal that its crazy that Bradford makes more than Brady. So they iron out the 10% in March then they turn around and sign Luck to a 6 year 60 Mil guaranteed contract? Not likely.

Sam Bradford was the last one to get the bananas contract.

Edited November 19, 2010 by Levitre + Wang = Wood

[K Gun Special]

I never implied they are starting from scratch, I don't know where you got that from. I implied that that 10% is a little more sticky then you believe.

 

The TV money is guaranteed if there are no games, The owners negotiated that in the contract.

That's what will activate the Nuclear bomb, when the regular season starts and the owners are still collecting TV revenue while the players are out in the cold.

The Nuclear bomb to summarize basically puts the TV contract in jeopardy and the CBS and FOX can stop paying and take legal action to void the contract; or the won't because they don't NBC or VS to be favored in a new contract after the lockout and the owners are still sitting pretty collecting checks.

 

If the TV contract is voided there would be no football in 2011 for sure. It will get really messy and both sides don't want this. I do think that the CBA will be straightened out before August.

 

You can brush everything off as posturing if you want, and hey maybe they come to agreement in early march, Jerry Jones and some NFLPA guy say they ironed it out over some beers in Dallas and they both look like heroes. But the point being if they do agree to a new CBA, why would the rookie contract pool not start until 2012? The NFLPA and NFL both agree in principal that its crazy that Bradford makes more than Brady. So they iron out the 10% in March then they turn around and sign Luck to a 6 year 60 Mil guaranteed contract? Not likely.

Sam Bradford was the last one to get the bananas contract.

 

Yes, the owners get TV money during a lockout, but its a loan that needs to be repaid with interest. http://www.profootballweekly.com/2010/07/22/nflpa-cries-foul-over-tv-contracts

 

Yes, the 10% might be sticky, and those issues are not small, but once those terms are agreed to, the finalizing wont be tim consuming.

 

Im not saying it wont apply to this draft class. Im just indicating there should be some consideration to kids who declare prior to any agreement on a cap. If there is cap that applies it would probably be deescalating.

 

Theres too much money at stake for a lockout, its unlikely to happen.