1B4IDie Posted November 17, 2010 Posted November 17, 2010 The Bills have invested two top 50 picks in the O-Line. Hangartner makes mistakes but he is an average Center, not great but does more good than harm; A serviceable vet; (PLus who knows maybe he is veteran leader for Wood and Levitre I don't think alot of people know what goes on in the O-line practice and meeting but Hangartner seems to be doing something right) Bell has physical ability and appears to be finally putting it together on the field, not All Pro right now, but he is only a turnstile every so often. The RT sucks, right now we have the turnstile of the week. So of the 5 positions I would say we have 2 above average; with 1 burgeoning all pro (Wood) 1 serviceable Vet 1 Developing talent that has proven so far in 2010 that he can play in the NFL. He just needs to develop consistency. (Peters didn't walk in day 1 and dominate, and never really was able to get past the excessive penalties even in Philly) 1 Turnstile. The Line is better than about 10 other teams lines, including an injury riddled Pittsburgh line. So lets get off the, "our O-Line sucks" box. Since most many people probably only know the O-Line sucks based on others' assessments lets start leading the charge for "our O-line is average" (Next Step for O-line is a top 60 pick on a RT, then depth at interior, so that Wood can eventually take over at Center, and or get depth to replace the Hangman in a few years. If Bell continues to develop and we get stability at RT in 2011 then in 2012 we can say we have an above average O-Line barring any injuries.)
HarkinBanks Posted November 17, 2010 Posted November 17, 2010 I agree with your overall thoughts...but I would also give Fitz a lot of credit for their improved play. He gets rid of the ball very quickly. Just like the O-line improved when Flutie came in for RJ, similar improvement has occured when Fitz replaced Edwards.
The Big Cat Posted November 17, 2010 Posted November 17, 2010 They're not there yet. Fitz's quick reads and throws makes them look better, and Chan has introduced a handful of wrinkles to keep the defense off balance. They don't and can't go toe to toe with opposing defenses just yet. I agree though that LG, RG, and LT seem to be good enough for a long time to come. Problem is, we need to find a way to get the other 40% of our line ready for the future. I say two more years before we have a "good" offensive line, all starters good, good depth, and a good mix of homegrown vets, young contributors, and up and comers.
1B4IDie Posted November 17, 2010 Author Posted November 17, 2010 I agree with your overall thoughts...but I would also give Fitz a lot of credit for their improved play. He gets rid of the ball very quickly. Just like the O-line improved when Flutie came in for RJ, similar improvement has occured when Fitz replaced Edwards. Exactly an O-line can't be expected to pass block for 9 seconds. But they are giving Fitzy 3.5 seconds which is the minimum you need. In 2008 they weren't giving the QB 2.5 seconds and they had a QB that needed 12 seconds to make a pass. That sucked. They're not there yet. Fitz's quick reads and throws makes them look better, and Chan has introduced a handful of wrinkles to keep the defense off balance. They don't and can't go toe to toe with opposing defenses just yet. I agree though that LG, RG, and LT seem to be good enough for a long time to come. Problem is, we need to find a way to get the other 40% of our line ready for the future. I say two more years before we have a "good" offensive line, all starters good, good depth, and a good mix of homegrown vets, young contributors, and up and comers. Exactly. When I hear our O-Line sucks, I think of 2008 O-Line that would have a lineman in the QB's face almost immediately after snap. The 2010 Line doesn't suck, they're just average, they're giving the QB a little bit of time to make a play on most plays; Which is different than sucking.
The Big Cat Posted November 17, 2010 Posted November 17, 2010 Exactly an O-line can't be expected to pass block for 9 seconds. But they are giving Fitzy 3.5 seconds which is the minimum you need. In 2008 they weren't giving the QB 2.5 seconds and they had a QB that needed 12 seconds to make a pass. That sucked. Exactly. When I hear our O-Line sucks, I think of 2008 O-Line that would have a lineman in the QB's face almost immediately after snap. The 2010 Line doesn't suck, they're just average, they're giving the QB a little bit of time to make a play on most plays; Which is different than sucking. See I think the 08 line would have looked just as good/bad as these guys if we didn't have **** for brains throwing the ball back there.
1B4IDie Posted November 17, 2010 Author Posted November 17, 2010 (edited) See I think the 08 line would have looked just as good/bad as these guys if we didn't have **** for brains throwing the ball back there. Derrick Dockery and Brad Butler were freaking turnstiles, and Duke Preston was a joke. I mean that literally, I have images of Dockery spinning with arms out wide, like a freaking turnstile while the D-Lineman blows past him, multiple times. and he did the same thing in DC last year. Talk about not earning ****. Getting paid millions to sit there and watch while you endanger another man's life is a good gig if you can get it. That sucked. You don't have that kind of consistent pressure in Fitzy's face anymore. Hangartner does miss some assignments now and again but in 2008 every play either G or C would screw up. The 2008 O-Line would have killed Fitzy by now, Levi Brown would be getting PT after Brohm got demolished. Edited November 17, 2010 by Levitre + Wang = Wood
The Big Cat Posted November 17, 2010 Posted November 17, 2010 Derrick Dockery and Brad Butler were freaking turnstiles, and Duke Preston was a joke. I mean littoral, I have images of Dockery spinning with arms out wide, like a freaking turnstile, multiple times. and he did the same thing in DC last year. Talk about not earning ****. Getting paid millions to sit there and watch while you endanger another man's life is a good gig if you can get it. The 2008 O-Line would have killed Fitzy by now, Levi Brown would be getting PT after Brohm got demolished. Dockery, yes, Preston, yes, Butler no. Other than that, you're right and props to Dockery for committing the perfect crime! Guy made off with millions! MILLIONS!!
1B4IDie Posted November 17, 2010 Author Posted November 17, 2010 Dockery, yes, Preston, yes, Butler no. Other than that, you're right and props to Dockery for committing the perfect crime! Guy made off with millions! MILLIONS!! You're right, I'll take back the turnstile on Butler, he just pissed me off with his abrupt retirement, You can go be a lobbyist in 10 years, capitol Hill isn't going anywhere. But the point being 2010 Buffalo Bills O-Line is average to just below average. Where the 2008 O-Line was horrible, to criminal.
Doc Posted November 17, 2010 Posted November 17, 2010 I envision the line next year being: Bell-Levitre-Wood-Hangman(Howard/Urkbik)-FA/draft pickup. If they can solidify the RT spot, they could have a very good O-line.
Ramius Posted November 17, 2010 Posted November 17, 2010 I'd actually say that Levitre is our best OL. He's developed rather nicely. I think Wood will be much improved next year (with a full offseason and TC on a healthy leg). Hangy has played well and Bell is coming along nicely too. RT is the only extreme immediate need, as well as adding some depth across the line (depending on how Howard, Wrotto, and Urbik come along). This would allow us to go QB and then OT/LB in rounds 2 and 3.
MarkyMannn Posted November 17, 2010 Posted November 17, 2010 Turnstile. The Line is better than about 10 other teams lines, including an injury riddled Pittsburgh line. So lets get off the, "our O-Line sucks" box. Fitz makes the line look better. The only thing to change is Fitz for TE. But you could be right too. Maybe Edwards took an OK line and made them look worse. Pitt last Monday, speaking of turnstiles, LT ex-Bill Jonathan Scott was HORRIBLE
Bill from NYC Posted November 17, 2010 Posted November 17, 2010 The Bills have invested two top 50 picks in the O-Line. Hangartner makes mistakes but he is an average Center, not great but does more good than harm; A serviceable vet; (PLus who knows maybe he is veteran leader for Wood and Levitre I don't think alot of people know what goes on in the O-line practice and meeting but Hangartner seems to be doing something right) Bell has physical ability and appears to be finally putting it together on the field, not All Pro right now, but he is only a turnstile every so often. The RT sucks, right now we have the turnstile of the week. So of the 5 positions I would say we have 2 above average; with 1 burgeoning all pro (Wood) 1 serviceable Vet 1 Developing talent that has proven so far in 2010 that he can play in the NFL. He just needs to develop consistency. (Peters didn't walk in day 1 and dominate, and never really was able to get past the excessive penalties even in Philly) 1 Turnstile. The Line is better than about 10 other teams lines, including an injury riddled Pittsburgh line. So lets get off the, "our O-Line sucks" box. Since most many people probably only know the O-Line sucks based on others' assessments lets start leading the charge for "our O-line is average" (Next Step for O-line is a top 60 pick on a RT, then depth at interior, so that Wood can eventually take over at Center, and or get depth to replace the Hangman in a few years. If Bell continues to develop and we get stability at RT in 2011 then in 2012 we can say we have an above average O-Line barring any injuries.) The RT position speaks for itself. I think that Levitre is playing better than Wood. Much better. Hangartner is decent, about midrange imo. Bell needs a lot of help and isn't strong enough. Lots of people are thrilled that he doesn't totally suck any more (and he does not), but he needs to improve to be considered a good left tackle. The above is unacceptable and will not make the Buffalo Bills a winning football team.
WotAGuy Posted November 17, 2010 Posted November 17, 2010 Fitz has made the pass blocking look more effective, but the run blocking is still a disaster on most plays. If Freddy wasn't one of the best at breaking tackles, it would be even worse. They don't seem able to run effective sweeps or screens at all. But props to the coaching staff for making due with an overall subpar group.
Homey D. Clown Posted November 17, 2010 Posted November 17, 2010 with all honesty, the OP is correct, they are a much improved squad, and many in this thread have pointed out that Gailey's wrinkles, plus the quicker reads make by Fitzpatrick have added to the perception of the line's play, but I think they have a long way to go still. Simply put - Can this line dominate a defensive front yet? I think most here can agree the answer to that is no, and that's not considering the top tier teams. I will say I see this group only getting better with time, and possibly another well drafted player for the right side of the line. I don't think the teams needs to spend a high draft pick on an LT or RT right now though, I think DE and OLB should be the focus right now.
fansince88 Posted November 17, 2010 Posted November 17, 2010 I agree with your overall thoughts...but I would also give Fitz a lot of credit for their improved play. He gets rid of the ball very quickly. Just like the O-line improved when Flutie came in for RJ, similar improvement has occured when Fitz replaced Edwards. Fitz also helps in that he sees the defence and aranges the OL to play right
1B4IDie Posted November 17, 2010 Author Posted November 17, 2010 Fitz makes the line look better. The only thing to change is Fitz for TE. But you could be right too. Maybe Edwards took an OK line and made them look worse. Pitt last Monday, speaking of turnstiles, LT ex-Bill Jonathan Scott was HORRIBLE Fitz has made the pass blocking look more effective, but the run blocking is still a disaster on most plays. If Freddy wasn't one of the best at breaking tackles, it would be even worse. They don't seem able to run effective sweeps or screens at all. But props to the coaching staff for making due with an overall subpar group. In 2008 Derrick Dockery was a freaking turnstiles, and Duke Preston was a joke. I mean that literally, I have images of Dockery spinning with arms out wide, like a freaking turnstile while the D-Lineman blows past him, multiple times. and he did the same thing in DC last year. Talk about not earning ****. Getting paid millions to sit there and watch while you endanger another man's life is a good gig if you can get it. That sucked. You don't have that kind of consistent pressure in Fitzy's face anymore. Hangartner does miss some assignments now and again but in 2008 every play either G or C would screw up. The 2008 O-Line would have killed Fitzy by now, Levi Brown would be getting PT after Brohm got demolished.
clearwater cadet Posted November 17, 2010 Posted November 17, 2010 Did anyone notice J. Scott playing for Pittsburg on monday night. Holy sh*t talk about a turnstile, I'm glad the Bills FO didn't try to sell us on him, I guess theres only so much abuse the fans can take. I like the interior of the line, the tackles ?.
silvermike Posted November 18, 2010 Posted November 18, 2010 You guys ever watch Arrested Development? I'd say the Bills offensive line is up to a "Don't Buy"
Thoner7 Posted November 18, 2010 Posted November 18, 2010 Ok so wood and Levitre look like very solid young guys, and Bell has played ok, but we employ the worst RTs in the league, have a center who is near the bottom of the barrel. Id say we still need 2 new starters minimum. 3/5 gets us to 60% best case scenario
1B4IDie Posted November 18, 2010 Author Posted November 18, 2010 Ok so wood and Levitre look like very solid young guys, and Bell has played ok, but we employ the worst RTs in the league, have a center who is near the bottom of the barrel. Id say we still need 2 new starters minimum. 3/5 gets us to 60% best case scenario and 40% worst case which is different than sucking. The Redskins have 0% which is the Bills in 2008 That sucks.
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