Cam newton

[NoSaint]

Now ive sen many people starting to throw out the name cam newton as locker disappears from the qb discussion. Out of all the qbs in this draft I think he scares me most. In a matter of 2.5 years of college ball this is what we know:

 

1) stole a laptop

2) transferred out of SEC powerhouse florida to a juco to avoid being kicked out for multiple academic violations.

3) family sought money for his signing. This can read two ways - he was involved and he made the choice to auction his services. Or he somehow agreed to 100% take himself out of the biggest decision of his life. Regardless his inner circle can not be trusted and you can not expect him to leave his family behind.

4) needs to learn the qb position (reading defenses, progressions, route trees etc)

 

He does have insane physical ability but the fact that he has shown he is not committed to handling his responsibilities. I know its not football related but not having the drive to handle his schooling which is part of his "job." will he have the drive to study film and learn those things an NFL qb needs to know. I think the name mike Vick comes to mind for me. All the tools in the world, but never the focus on football, the maturity to get to the next level. If he will roll the dice so many times in college will he really see those extra nights out in march instead of hitting the playbook or the gym an issue?

 

He has all the tools physically but I just can't see him putting it all together unless this suddenly scares him straight. The florida stuff didn't so theres no reason to believe this will.

Edited November 14, 2010 by NoSaint

[PromoTheRobot]

Now vie sen many people starting to throw out the name cam newton as locker disappears from the qb discussion. Out of all the qbs in this draft I think he scares me most. In a matter of 2.5 years of college ball this is what we know:

 

1) stole a laptop

2) transferred out of SEC powerhouse florida to a juco before being kicked out for multiple academic violations.

3) family sought money for his signing. This can read two ways - he was involved and he made the choice to auction his services. Or he somehow agreed to 100% take himself out of the biggest decision of his life. Regardless his inner circle can not be trusted and you can not expect him to leave his family behind.

4) needs to learn the qb position (reading defenses, progressions, route trees etc)

 

He does have insane physical ability but the fact that he has shown he is not committed to handling his responsibilities. I know its not football related but not having the drive to handle his schooling which is part of his "job." will he have the drive to study film and learn those things an NFL qb needs to know. I think the name mike Vick comes to mind for me. All the tools in the world, but never the focus on football, the maturity to get to the next level. If he will roll the dice so many times in college will he really see those extra nights out in march instead of hitting the playbook or the gym an issue?

 

He has all the tools physically but I just can't see him putting it all together unless this suddenly scares him straight. The florida stuff didn't so theres no reason to believe this will.

 

I watched that Georgia game. I think people get dazzled by physically gifted players dominating in college, but the NFL is a whole new level. Ask CJ Spiller if he thinks the NFL is tougher. QB's like Newton don't usually pan out because they can't freestyle it like in college, and his character issues make me wonder if he would put in the work to learn how to play in the NFL. Newton = huge risk pick.

 

PTR

Edited November 14, 2010 by PromoTheRobot

[VADC Bills]

Now ive sen many people starting to throw out the name cam newton as locker disappears from the qb discussion. Out of all the qbs in this draft I think he scares me most. In a matter of 2.5 years of college ball this is what we know:

 

1) stole a laptop

2) transferred out of SEC powerhouse florida to a juco to avoid being kicked out for multiple academic violations.

3) family sought money for his signing. This can read two ways - he was involved and he made the choice to auction his services. Or he somehow agreed to 100% take himself out of the biggest decision of his life. Regardless his inner circle can not be trusted and you can not expect him to leave his family behind.

4) needs to learn the qb position (reading defenses, progressions, route trees etc)

 

He does have insane physical ability but the fact that he has shown he is not committed to handling his responsibilities. I know its not football related but not having the drive to handle his schooling which is part of his "job." will he have the drive to study film and learn those things an NFL qb needs to know. I think the name mike Vick comes to mind for me. All the tools in the world, but never the focus on football, the maturity to get to the next level. If he will roll the dice so many times in college will he really see those extra nights out in march instead of hitting the playbook or the gym an issue?

 

He has all the tools physically but I just can't see him putting it all together unless this suddenly scares him straight. The florida stuff didn't so theres no reason to believe this will.

[The Big Cat]

Now ive sen many people starting to throw out the name cam newton as locker disappears from the qb discussion. Out of all the qbs in this draft I think he scares me most. In a matter of 2.5 years of college ball this is what we know:

 

1) stole a laptop

2) transferred out of SEC powerhouse florida to a juco to avoid being kicked out for multiple academic violations.

3) family sought money for his signing. This can read two ways - he was involved and he made the choice to auction his services. Or he somehow agreed to 100% take himself out of the biggest decision of his life. Regardless his inner circle can not be trusted and you can not expect him to leave his family behind.

4) needs to learn the qb position (reading defenses, progressions, route trees etc)

 

He does have insane physical ability but the fact that he has shown he is not committed to handling his responsibilities. I know its not football related but not having the drive to handle his schooling which is part of his "job." will he have the drive to study film and learn those things an NFL qb needs to know. I think the name mike Vick comes to mind for me. All the tools in the world, but never the focus on football, the maturity to get to the next level. If he will roll the dice so many times in college will he really see those extra nights out in march instead of hitting the playbook or the gym an issue?

 

He has all the tools physically but I just can't see him putting it all together unless this suddenly scares him straight. The florida stuff didn't so theres no reason to believe this will.

 

So you believe everything a writer for Fox Sports with a spotty fact-checking record tells you? Mmmmkay.

[NoSaint]

So you believe everything a writer for Fox Sports with a spotty fact-checking record tells you? Mmmmkay.

 

 

Which point do you refute? The academics one? It makes a lot of sense on face value.... Do you really think he transfers to play one year of juco, then transfers out to another school rather then stick with the Florida program unless there was more to the story then waiting on tebow to leave? He'd be starting this year either way, so.... Why leave?

[Acantha]

So you believe everything a writer for Fox Sports with a spotty fact-checking record tells you? Mmmmkay.

There was also a lot more to the story of him leaving Florida than was reported.

[The Big Cat]

Which point do you refute? The academics one? It makes a lot of sense on face value.... Do you really think he transfers to play one year of juco, then transfers out to another school rather then stick with the Florida program unless there was more to the story then waiting on tebow to leave? He'd be starting this year either way, so.... Why leave?

 

Dude, it's not about believability, or even refutability, it's about journalism. You don't publish something that hangs on a single ANONYMOUS source who's feeding you information, the acquisition and sharing of which being in direct violation of NCAA and university privacy policies.

 

I could craft a story that would make you question anything, it doesn't make it right, or even worth questioning.

 

Thank you, though, for compelling the degradation of fact-gathering.

[NoSaint]

Dude, it's not about believability, or even refutability, it's about journalism. You don't publish something that hangs on a single ANONYMOUS source who's feeding you information, the acquisition and sharing of which being in direct violation of NCAA and university privacy policies.

 

I could craft a story that would make you question anything, it doesn't make it right, or even worth questioning.

 

Thank you, though, for compelling the degradation of fact-gathering.

 

My point was something more was going on there - fine, we don't know if it's academic - do you think he left to get off the bench?

 

I wasn't trying to debate the journalistic integrity of his report, I'm trying to discuss cam as a person off the field and how that will effect him going forward. Granted, those things are not totally independent, and i replied with a quick and dirty message board reply, not a thesis on the issue. If we waive the academic stuff and say for mysterious reasons - he left one school within a year and is nearing a loss of eligibility at his new school...... Red flag?

 

I truly didn't know enough about the initial report so I apologize if I offended you and your journalistic morals. There is a lot of smoke there, and even if that's not the source of the fire, something is burning.

Edited November 15, 2010 by NoSaint

[The Big Cat]

My point was something more was going on there - fine, we don't know if it's academic - do you think he left to get off the bench?

 

I wasn't trying to debate the journalistic integrity of his report, I'm trying to discuss cam as a person off the field and how that will effect him going forward. Granted, those things are not totally independent, and i replied with a quick and dirty message board reply, not a thesis on the issue. If we waive the academic stuff and say for mysterious reasons - he left one school within a year and is nearing a loss of eligibility at his new school...... Red flag?

 

I truly didn't know enough about the initial report so I apologize if I offended you and your journalistic morals. There is a lot of smoke there, and even if that's not the source of the fire, something is burning.

 

Don't play in to it.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agnotology

[RJ (not THAT RJ)]

Cat, I usually agree with you on things, but I have to say that I share the OP's unease about Newton. I am open to evidence that would change my mind, but I find it strains credulity to imagine that there are not problems in his background/character. The laptop issue, combined with the mystery of his leaving FL is bad enough, but I also find it very hard to believe that they only tried to hit up Miss. St. for cash. He is an amazing talent, to be sure, but there are serious red flags. One would have to be very careful trying to build a franchise around him.

[dubj04]

Can we at least wait to see if he is guilty before we take him off of the draft board. Looks like he is the real deal as far as the qb position goes, so let's at least make sure we have a good reason before we decide he is undraftable.

[KD in CA]

He has all the tools physically but I just can't see him putting it all together unless this suddenly scares him straight. The florida stuff didn't so theres no reason to believe this will.

 

Aside from the character issues, he's another running QB whose skills will not translate to the NFL. We see this type of QB come and go every single year. Other than Vick, none of them ever stick.

[Sisyphean Bills]

Mike Vick 2.0.

[The Big Cat]

Cat, I usually agree with you on things, but I have to say that I share the OP's unease about Newton. I am open to evidence that would change my mind, but I find it strains credulity to imagine that there are not problems in his background/character. The laptop issue, combined with the mystery of his leaving FL is bad enough, but I also find it very hard to believe that they only tried to hit up Miss. St. for cash. He is an amazing talent, to be sure, but there are serious red flags. One would have to be very careful trying to build a franchise around him.

 

I would argue that one would have to be very careful to build a franchise around him because he'll turn out to be a crappy professional football player.

 

As for the allegations, I'm also skeptical because of how rarely we here about these money issues when it's pretty clear how frequently they occur. It's always been my contention that once the nefarious money-matters of big time collegiate sports are leaked, there's a motive, an intentionality for when and against whom the allegations are made. In other words, it's not a big deal that Cam's dad asked for money, the real story is whatever compelled someone to blow the whistle on Cam when he/she did.

[NoSaint]

I would argue that one would have to be very careful to build a franchise around him because he'll turn out to be a crappy professional football player.

 

As for the allegations, I'm also skeptical because of how rarely we here about these money issues when it's pretty clear how frequently they occur. It's always been my contention that once the nefarious money-matters of big time collegiate sports are leaked, there's a motive, an intentionality for when and against whom the allegations are made. In other words, it's not a big deal that Cam's dad asked for money, the real story is whatever compelled someone to blow the whistle on Cam when he/she did.

 

I agree that it is likely very common for players to get cash. I also agree theres likely a lot more to the story going public. I think its less common for a player to go to a university and say where's the cash, and much more common to see an agent approach a player. No doubt universities find perks to pass on though.

 

I think whats more telling is the repitition of mistakes. After going to Florida, and leaving with a black eye even before the academic allegations, you would think he and his caretakers would be wise enough to place him at the best school for him to be drafted high, kept there noses clean for a year, maybe two and then gotten the payday come draft day.

 

I don't know anything about his juco experience but this is a lot of career threatening transgressions for such a young man. He could have been booted for the laptop, IF the academics thing is true it could've been the kiss of death, and now this money thing is hanging over his eligibility every week from here on out. Its not the leadership you hope for from your quarterback. I also question what else we don't know. Could be a lot of pleasant surprises but with these kinds of things, for every time someone is caught there are normally several times they got away with it.

 

It doesn't disqualify him from my team but it would take A LOT of research before I would pull the trigger.

Edited November 15, 2010 by NoSaint

[The Big Cat]

I agree that it is likely very common for players to get cash. I also agree theres likely a lot more to the story going public. I think its less common for a player to go to a university and say where's the cash, and much more common to see an agent approach a player. No doubt universities find perks to pass on though.

 

I think whats more telling is the repitition of mistakes. After going to Florida, and leaving with a black eye even before the academic allegations, you would think he and his caretakers would be wise enough to place him at the best school for him to be drafted high, kept there noses clean for a year, maybe two and then gotten the payday come draft day.

 

I don't know anything about his juco experience but this is a lot of career threatening transgressions for such a young man. He could have been booted for the laptop, IF the academics thing is true it could've been the kiss of death, and now this money thing is hanging over his eligibility every week from here on out. Its not the leadership you hope for from your quarterback. I also question what else we don't know. Could be a lot of pleasant surprises but with these kinds of things, for every time someone is caught there are normally several times they got away with it.

 

It doesn't disqualify him from my team but it would take A LOT of research before I would pull the trigger.

 

Well, it doesn't allay my umbrage with the Foxsports article.

 

As for Cam the player, as I mentioned before, I think this whole issue is a moot point for us Bills fans because I don't think he's got much of a future in the NFL.

 

I could be wrong, but I just don't see it.

[CarolinaBill]

ok, just to be clear,

 

1: none of the allegations against newton have been proven.

 

2: aside from the laptop incident, Tebow returning for his Sr. year was the driving force for newton leaving florida. As you may or may not know, no athlete can transfer from a D-1 school and play for another D-1 school the following yr. So for Newton, being able to play at Juco, and get more game experience was more advantageous than sitting out a year.

 

3: He compares most favorably to Vince young, not mike vick, and has shown so far to be more accurate than both. He has a pro style delivery with very good arm strength. basically Cam is a bigger, more polished passer than VY, with equivalent mobility.

 

does he need work, Absolutely

should anyone interested do ALOT of HW on the kid? Absolutely

 

but nobody can deny his talent, and he's been a winner everywhere.

 

Def. worth a look IMO

[NoSaint]

ok, just to be clear,

 

1: none of the allegations against newton have been proven.

 

2: aside from the laptop incident, Tebow returning for his Sr. year was the driving force for newton leaving florida. As you may or may not know, no athlete can transfer from a D-1 school and play for another D-1 school the following yr. So for Newton, being able to play at Juco, and get more game experience was more advantageous than sitting out a year.

 

3: He compares most favorably to Vince young, not mike vick, and has shown so far to be more accurate than both. He has a pro style delivery with very good arm strength. basically Cam is a bigger, more polished passer than VY, with equivalent mobility.

 

does he need work, Absolutely

should anyone interested do ALOT of HW on the kid? Absolutely

 

but nobody can deny his talent, and he's been a winner everywhere.

 

Def. worth a look IMO

 

With tebow returning - this would be his first year starting.

 

With his transfer, this is his first year starting (yes he played juco...)

 

There's more to the story, he doesn't leave his dream school for a year at blinn instead of a year on the bench.

[CarolinaBill]

With tebow returning - this would be his first year starting.

 

With his transfer, this is his first year starting (yes he played juco...)

 

There's more to the story, he doesn't leave his dream school for a year at blinn instead of a year on the bench.

thats exactly what he did, he got the charge at UF, so there was that, and tebow came back, combine the 2 and he didnt want to be there anymore.

 

there may be more to the story, but for now those are the FACTS. And its worked out well for him.

[NoSaint]

thats exactly what he did, he got the charge at UF, so there was that, and tebow came back, combine the 2 and he didnt want to be there anymore.

 

there may be more to the story, but for now those are the FACTS. And its worked out well for him.

 

Sorry, I won't question it - even though it doesn't make sense - until i am told it's the proper time. I suppose when tiger got in that car accident you assumed it was an innocent and isolated incident the whole time? I'm sure mike Vick was innocent until convicted as well. I am a huge fan of cam at auburn. I think he's very exciting to watch play college ball. I also think he has a much harder road to the pros because although he has the physical tools it appears he will have to piece together the mental both on and off the field. I'm all for letting the facts come out, gathering as much info as possible but if you don't see red flags... I'm not sure what to say. At some point a team is going to have to make a decision without all the facts - I'm saying if put in there shoes with what's been made public thus far, my concerns would consist of the things I've mentioned. And yes, allegations, even unproven ones, are not good. I think twice about guys that draw negative attention that consistently even if not proven. Note: think twice, not rule out.