Bills Best Coach Since the Merger

[truth on hold]

Really tough one for me. On record alone of course it's Levy. But was Levy really all that special or did he benefit from the great line up Polian put together? I think his performance as GM swayed me toward the latter. I'm going with Knox because I think he did the most with the talent he had. I think he would be the one most likely to adapt to the more sophisticated modern game. He also wouldn't have been a pin cushion push over for that twit Jimmy Johnson (I'm sure Saban would have slapped down JJ the best though.) Phillips? What can I say, he does a solid job when given talent (this year notwithstanding), but still there's something missing. Don't see him having the fire to get a team all the way.

[The Senator]

Really tough one for me. On record alone of course it's Levy. But was Levy really all that special or did he benefit from the great line up Polian put together? I think his performance as GM swayed me toward the latter. I'm going with Knox because I think he did the most with the talent he had. I think he would be the one most likely to adapt to the more sophisticated modern game. He also wouldn't have been a pin cushion push over for that twit Jimmy Johnson (I'm sure Saban would have slapped down JJ the best though.) Phillips? What can I say, he does a solid job when given talent (this year notwithstanding), but still there's something missing. Don't see him having the fire to get a team all the way.

I think Saban might have also slapped down Hank Stram in the Bills' 3rd consecutive AFL title game, and gone on to slap down Lombardi & the Packers in Superbowl One - had he not quit one week after winning the 2nd AFL title in '65!

 

(Which, along with quitting for the 2nd time in 1976, is why Lou will have to wait 'til Ralph goes on to the 'big luxury box in the sky' before being posthumously placed on the Bills ' Wall of Fame '.)

 

Still, you can't argue with the accomplishments of taking the team from consecutive 2-14 seasons to 12-4 and the AFC title game in two seasons, and then on to 4 consecutive AFC titles and Superbowl appearances - that's why I gotta go with ' The Marv-elous One ' !!!

Edited November 10, 2010 by The Senator

[bills_fan_in_raleigh]

since your question was since merger have to go with Knox, he brought in some key vets and turned franchise around quickly. Overall best coach of the franchise was Saban

[NewHampshireBillsFan]

Knox was a really good coach and a winner. Levy had (to his credit) an outstanding cast of assistant coaches, especially coordinators. He was a good leader, but Knox was a shrewder coach. Saban did his best work before the merger and the team was starting to fall apart when he left the second time.

[JohnC]

I would give my vote to Knox. He turned around a morbid franchise in fairly short order. He brought in some vets to bolster the team and fit in with his system. I remember when he left. He was very upset with his contract offer. In his departure he made some comments to the effect that this franchise is a graveyard for coaches.

 

The repeated mistake that the owner has made is in not keeping and paying for quality football staff. When the operation is geared more to the finances than the football side of the business the outcome is predictable.

 

Knox was a really good coach and a winner. Levy had (to his credit) an outstanding cast of assistant coaches, especially coordinators. He was a good leader, but Knox was a shrewder coach. Saban did his best work before the merger and the team was starting to fall apart when he left the second time.

 

Excellent analysis. As you smartly noted Levy knew his strengths and weaknesses. Surrounding himself with competent staff and allowing them to do their jobs without hindering their efforts is an example of his wisdom.

 

Levy was not a tactician. He left that to the respective coordinators. The Giant SB game was a blatant demonstration of being out strategized. His talents were in handling people and egos.

[Albany,n.y.]

Knox was a great coach, but he was too involved in personnel moves. On his watch in the 1st round we missed on Terry Miller, Tom Cousineau (who didn't sign, but when he ended up in the NFL was hardly worth the top pick), Booker Moore and even traded up for Perry Tuttle. Those bad draft choices led to the Bills becoming the worst team in the NFL in 1984 & 1985, similar to the position we find ourselves in now due to all the misses in the 2000s.

[Buftex]

Knox was a great coach, but he was too involved in personnel moves. On his watch in the 1st round we missed on Terry Miller, Tom Cousineau (who didn't sign, but when he ended up in the NFL was hardly worth the top pick), Booker Moore and even traded up for Perry Tuttle. Those bad draft choices led to the Bills becoming the worst team in the NFL in 1984 & 1985, similar to the position we find ourselves in now due to all the misses in the 2000s.

 

Okay...you name all of his misses, but he had just as many hits, and, added free-agents that fit his style and system. Miller had one good season, Booker Moore couldn't play for reasons unrelated to football, and Cousineau wouldn't sign. I am sure I don't need to remind you, Cousineau was traded for another first round pick...so it was hardly the worst pick. No saying that Cousineau wouldn't have done better under Knox. What about the picks of Smerlas, Haslett, Jerry Butler, Charles Romes? I think he had more hits than misses. He came to a team in awful shape, turned them around fairly quickly, particularly for that era...I have no doubt the Bills would have continued to get better, if Ralph hadn't reeled Knox in...Chuck was the best coach, after the merger...no disrespect to Marv Levy.

 

Knox was a guy who was able to turn three moribund franchises around, and make them contenders, in quick time. And, his teams all developed his personality...tough running game, punishing defenses. But, make no mistake, even though Chucks' offense was dubbed "ground Chuck" for its' running accumen, he was not stupid. The Bills offensive units from 1979-1981 were amongst the top passing offenses in the leauge.

 

I kind of think as Chuck Knox as similar to Bill Parcells, without the rings. A fine football coach.

[Albany,n.y.]

Okay...you name all of his misses, but he had just as many hits, and, added free-agents that fit his style and system. Miller had one good season, Booker Moore couldn't play for reasons unrelated to football, and Cousineau wouldn't sign. I am sure I don't need to remind you, Cousineau was traded for another first round pick...so it was hardly the worst pick. No saying that Cousineau wouldn't have done better under Knox. What about the picks of Smerlas, Haslett, Jerry Butler, Charles Romes? I think he had more hits than misses. He came to a team in awful shape, turned them around fairly quickly, particularly for that era...I have no doubt the Bills would have continued to get better, if Ralph hadn't reeled Knox in...Chuck was the best coach, after the merger...no disrespect to Marv Levy.

 

Knox was a guy who was able to turn three moribund franchises around, and make them contenders, in quick time. And, his teams all developed his personality...tough running game, punishing defenses. But, make no mistake, even though Chucks' offense was dubbed "ground Chuck" for its' running accumen, he was not stupid. The Bills offensive units from 1979-1981 were amongst the top passing offenses in the leauge.

 

I kind of think as Chuck Knox as similar to Bill Parcells, without the rings. A fine football coach.

I agree with most of what you say, but those 1st round misses set the stage for the bad teams of the mid 80s. Also he cut Gary Anderson when a GM like Polian would have IR'd the guy instead of waiving him. The IR rules were pretty loose back then & smart teams didn't waive rookies with potential. Just imagine if Knox had Polian to reign him in on those 1st round busts. By 2005 those vets he brought over from the Rams were long gone. I would have loved to have seen Knox coaching those Super Bowl teams because he was definitely a better coach than Marv Levy.

[buffaloaggie]

Okay...you name all of his misses, but he had just as many hits, and, added free-agents that fit his style and system. Miller had one good season, Booker Moore couldn't play for reasons unrelated to football, and Cousineau wouldn't sign. I am sure I don't need to remind you, Cousineau was traded for another first round pick...so it was hardly the worst pick. No saying that Cousineau wouldn't have done better under Knox. What about the picks of Smerlas, Haslett, Jerry Butler, Charles Romes? I think he had more hits than misses. He came to a team in awful shape, turned them around fairly quickly, particularly for that era...I have no doubt the Bills would have continued to get better, if Ralph hadn't reeled Knox in...Chuck was the best coach, after the merger...no disrespect to Marv Levy.

 

Knox was a guy who was able to turn three moribund franchises around, and make them contenders, in quick time. And, his teams all developed his personality...tough running game, punishing defenses. But, make no mistake, even though Chucks' offense was dubbed "ground Chuck" for its' running accumen, he was not stupid. The Bills offensive units from 1979-1981 were amongst the top passing offenses in the leauge.

 

I kind of think as Chuck Knox as similar to Bill Parcells, without the rings. A fine football coach.

I agree that Knox did more with less and he won everywhere he went, though his 2nd stint with the Rams was forgettable. Seattle, Buffalo and the Rams all had success with Knox at the helm, while Marv had Polian to build a vastly more talented team. Success in Buffalo, losing record and not as much success in KC. Not saying Levy was a bad coach, but Knox seems like he was more consistent with his success.

[thewildrabbit]

Marv Levy...nothing against Marv as he is a HoF head coach, but then he ran a team with Bill Polian as GM, with Ted Marchibroda as OC, his best moves were to hire good assistants and motivate the troops.

 

Chuck Knox was able to take the Bills to the playoffs despite Ralph Wilson and the GM interfering. The GM at the time was Stew Barber an ex Bill player who had no business as a GM, that move by Wilson was about on par with the Lions hiring Matt Millen as president.

 

If Chuck Knox had a GM like Polian behind him there is little doubt in my mind that the Bills win their first SB back in the 80's. So yea, Knox was that good!

[Buftex]

I agree with most of what you say, but those 1st round misses set the stage for the bad teams of the mid 80s. Also he cut Gary Anderson when a GM like Polian would have IR'd the guy instead of waiving him. The IR rules were pretty loose back then & smart teams didn't waive rookies with potential. Just imagine if Knox had Polian to reign him in on those 1st round busts. By 2005 those vets he brought over from the Rams were long gone. I would have loved to have seen Knox coaching those Super Bowl teams because he was definitely a better coach than Marv Levy.

 

 

Every team has/had first round busts...true, that may have hurt them later in the 80's (though you are ignorig a lot of great draft picks in the 2nd to 11th rounds, that remained with the team for years...), but what hurt more, IMO, upon Knox leaving, the owner reverted to his spend thrift ways (hello Kay Stephenson, Hank Bullough), employed a horrendouns GM (Stew Barber) and Buffalo management got a reputation for having a very contentious relationship with it's players. Knox was a tough guy, but very much a players coach. Once he was gone, guys like Smerlas (a douche no doubt, but a fine football player in his day), Smerlas, Cribbs were at open war with management. Kay Stephenson and Hank Bullough were inexperienced as head coaches, and were just grateful to have a job...they weren't going to fight for their players. Knox was principled, and he could afford to be, because of his track record.

 

One of the things that prompted Knox to leave, was Wilsons' unwillingness to re-sign players at market value, and, the Bills inabilty to sign Cousineau really stung him.

[tennesseeboy]

some of Saban's best days were before the merger. He did a great job "rehabilitating" OJ from a bust to a hall of flame player and building a very effective offense around him. In the final analysis I think I have to go with Levy...Saban second and Knox third.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

Seriously, who voted for Wade Phillips?

Edited November 10, 2010 by over 20 years of fanhood

[Kelly the Dog]

Knox was a really good coach and a winner. Levy had (to his credit) an outstanding cast of assistant coaches, especially coordinators.

There are legions of Bills fans, myself included, who think the only reason we didn't win a Super Bowl was because of Levy's choice of coordinators. Walt Corey was horrendous. He had two Hall of Fame worthy players, surrounded by several other Pro Bowl players, mixed in with a few solid role players. And yet we weren't half as good on defense as we should have been. That defense should have been as good as our K-Gun offense was, and it was average. Corey was terrible, and Levy's misguided allegiance to him very likely cost us winning the Super Bowl, and maybe a few of them.

Edited November 10, 2010 by Kelly the Fair and Balanced Dog

[bowery4]

There are legions of Bills fans, myself included, who think the only reason we didn't win a Super Bowl was because of Levy's choice of coordinators. Walt Corey was horrendous. He had two Hall of Fame worthy players, surrounded by several other Pro Bowl players, mixed in with a few solid role players. And yet we weren't half as good on defense as we should have been. That defense should have been as good as our K-Gun offense was, and it was average. Corey was terrible, and Levy's misguided allegiance to him very likely cost us winning the Super Bowl, and maybe a few of them.

Certainly number 2,3and 4. It was on Marv/Cotrell in number 1 IMO

BTW I went with Marv, Saban and then Knox and don't understand the "since the merger" part of the post in the first place, since it just lessens Lou's position in the poll. And that was when the team was 9 years old, so what is the story with that?

Edited November 10, 2010 by bowery4

[Buftex]

There are legions of Bills fans, myself included, who think the only reason we didn't win a Super Bowl was because of Levy's choice of coordinators. Walt Corey was horrendous. He had two Hall of Fame worthy players, surrounded by several other Pro Bowl players, mixed in with a few solid role players. And yet we weren't half as good on defense as we should have been. That defense should have been as good as our K-Gun offense was, and it was average. Corey was terrible, and Levy's misguided allegiance to him very likely cost us winning the Super Bowl, and maybe a few of them.

 

 

Corey was awful.

[DE Bills Fan]

Chuck Knox. He made the most out of what he had and combined a hard hitting defense with a strong running game and also had a good passing game with Joe Ferguson. I feel that Marv Levy was vastly overrated as a head-coach. I was never sure who was really running the team and I feel that he won because of superior talent (possibly 10 players with super bowl possibilities). I think that it showed most when just overall talent could not get him by in the Super Bowls.

[jack_spikes]

How many people who voted on this were even alive back when Saban was coach? The results are skewed toward Levy because more people( actually still breathing) were around when he was. Saban, like or not, is the only one who ever won a championship in Buffalo. Would have loved to see what he could have done with those early 90's teams.

[truth on hold]

Certainly number 2,3and 4. It was on Marv/Cotrell in number 1 IMO

BTW I went with Marv, Saban and then Knox and don't understand the "since the merger" part of the post in the first place, since it just lessens Lou's position in the poll. And that was when the team was 9 years old, so what is the story with that?

I just didnt want this to turn into an AFL versus NFL debate. But in retrospect should have just said "Best Bills Coach" and left it at that.

[bowery4]

I just didnt want this to turn into an AFL versus NFL debate. But in retrospect should have just said "Best Bills Coach" and left it at that.

I see ok but now I cant change my vote can I? I loved Lou but voted Marv because of the wording. Lou won a championship..... oh wait, now I see the problem

 

EDIT wow, I just found out you can change your vote on here bow

Edited November 11, 2010 by bowery4