Franchise Quarterbacks

[akm0404]

But even Brady has fallen short since their defense has begun to tank.

Fallen short? With Tom Brady, the Patriots have competed every single year for championships, and are consistently in the playoffs. They are a strong championship contender again this year, and are tied for the best record in the NFL. What are you even trying to say? Falling short? You are confirming the fact that having an elite-level quarterback allows a team to contend every single year, even without having a dominant defense.

 

Even the great ones have great supporting casts. So if we're going to talk Super Bowl, this team needs a WHOLE lot more help than just quarterback to make all the pieces go.

Absolutely true. One player alone does not a championship team make - but it also makes sense to lock up the most important player first, and build around them.

[WordByrd]

I would absolutely add Schaub, Freeman, Flacco, Young and Bradford to the list of QBs I would take in a heartbeat over what we have.

 

It's not all about TDs.....it's also about not turning the ball over in key moments.

 

hold your horses on Freeman

[akm0404]

But please define "elite-level play" in real terms, not hand waving.

 

I'm not sure there is a hard-and-fast definition, but certainly you can recognize it when you see it. But I'll try anyhow:

 

An elite-level quarterback consistently performs at the top of his position, consistently wins games, and consistently makes good decisions and limits mistakes.

 

You can pretty much look at the quarterbacks who make the playoffs year after year for an exhaustive list, as the elite ones always seem to end up there for some reason.

[1B4IDie]

 

Absolutely true. One player alone does not a championship team make - but it also makes sense to lock up the most important player first, and build around them.

I'm not saying that Luck or Mallet are Brady or Manning but the point of a Franchise or Elite QB is this.

 

If you put Trent Edwards on the 2010 Colts, the team is 6-10 at best.

If you put Trent Edwards on the 2010 Pats, the team is 6-10 at best.

 

I don't think many people that watch football would really argue with the above statements.

 

You replace the same team with an elite, franchise QB, that team is making a Super Bowl run

 

(personally I think the Ravens and Steelers have better overall teams and will likely be in the SuperBowl, and both of those teams are solid in most positions plus they have a Elite Franchise QBs or atleast Flacco is an elite QB in training)

[Van_phelaN1]

I would absolutely add Schaub, Freeman, Flacco, Young and Bradford to the list of QBs I would take in a heartbeat over what we have.

 

It's not all about TDs.....it's also about not turning the ball over in key moments.

 

You had me until you said Young. I don't care what anyone says about him he is never going to be able to win consistently in the NFL. Flacco reminds me of Trent Edwards a little too much with his check down passes to Rice but at least he will take shots down field.

 

I like where we are this season with Fitz and the only other QBs I would want to see playing this season are Brohm and Brown to evaluate their game time talent. I wouldn't want any other QB playing in the league right now unless they have already won a SB ring or were a proven winner (Rivers) I would rather take my chances with the draft.

[Green Lightning]

Christ I'm sick of these threads. Okay QB at all cost posters - who else besides Luck would you burn a #1 or a top 4 pick on? And Fitz at all cost fans - would you really pass up Luck for what's available at DE or LB? For me, no way I'd burn a#1, 2 or 3 on any of the other QB's I've seen this year.

[Bart]

Here are the NFL's top 37 quarterbacks by TD'S. I keep hearing that Fitz is no franchise QB, but aside from the ones I've highlighted below, who else is? I count 9 quarterbacks who have proven, definitely, that they can carry the load for their team for at least the next three years. 9 out of 37. If so few of the teams in the NFL are competitive without one, why are people SO dead set on a QB with our top 3 pick next year when we clearly have bigger shoes to fill and more than serviceable talent at the position already?

 

1 Philip Rivers SDG 29 9 0 215 329 65.3 2944 19 5.8 8 2.4 59 8.9 9.0 13.7 327.1 102.9 22

2 Drew Brees NOR 31 9 0 261 374 69.8 2587 18 4.8 12 3.2 80 6.9 6.4 9.9 287.4 91.7 14

3 Eli Manning NYG 29 8 0 178 271 65.7 2075 17 6.3 11 4.1 54 7.7 7.1 11.7 259.4 92.7 12

4 Peyton Manning IND 34 8 0 228 351 65.0 2478 16 4.6 4 1.1 73 7.1 7.5 10.9 309.8 96.1 10

5 Aaron Rodgers GNB 27 9 0 192 303 63.4 2300 15 5.0 9 3.0 86 7.6 7.2 12.0 255.6 90.6 17

6 Tom Brady NWE 33 8 0 166 261 63.6 1826 14 5.4 4 1.5 65 7.0 7.4 11.0 228.3 95.7 13

7 David Garrard JAX 32 7 0 101 149 67.8 1098 13 8.7 7 4.7 42 7.4 7.0 10.9 156.9 98.8 15

8 Ryan Fitzpatrick BUF 28 6 0 136 227 59.9 1499 13 5.7 7 3.1 45 6.6 6.4 11.0 249.8 85.8 12

9 Matt Ryan ATL 25 8 0 180 288 62.5 1949 13 4.5 5 1.7 46 6.8 6.9 10.8 243.6 90.2 13

10 Matt Cassel KAN 28 8 0 125 214 58.4 1412 12 5.6 4 1.9 53 6.6 6.9 11.3 176.5 89.2 11

11 Joe Flacco BAL 25 8 0 160 263 60.8 1917 12 4.6 6 2.3 58 7.3 7.2 12.0 239.6 88.9 14

12 Carson Palmer CIN 31 7 0 168 282 59.6 1855 12 4.3 7 2.5 78 6.6 6.3 11.0 265.0 83.0 10

13 Kyle Orton DEN 28 8 0 195 316 61.7 2509 12 3.8 5 1.6 71 7.9 8.0 12.9 313.6 92.7 21

14 Tony Romo DAL 30 6 0 148 213 69.5 1605 11 5.2 7 3.3 69 7.5 7.1 10.8 267.5 94.9 7

15 Sam Bradford STL 23 8 0 171 292 58.6 1674 11 3.8 8 2.7 49 5.7 5.3 9.8 209.3 75.9 17

16 Josh Freeman TAM 22 8 0 146 246 59.3 1722 10 4.1 5 2.0 58 7.0 6.9 11.8 215.3 85.8 15

17 Mark Sanchez NYJ 24 8 0 136 254 53.5 1679 10 3.9 5 2.0 74 6.6 6.5 12.3 209.9 79.2 12

18 Matt Schaub HOU 29 8 0 170 267 63.7 2005 10 3.7 7 2.6 50 7.5 7.1 11.8 250.6 88.0 21

19 Vince Young TEN 27 7 0 72 122 59.0 998 9 7.4 2 1.6 71 8.2 8.9 13.9 142.6 103.1 10

20 Shaun Hill DET 30 7 0 127 208 61.1 1309 9 4.3 7 3.4 75 6.3 5.6 10.3 187.0 79.6 8

21 Jay Cutler CHI 27 7 0 128 211 60.7 1671 9 4.3 7 3.3 89 7.9 7.3 13.1 238.7 86.0 28

22 Alex Smith SFO 26 7 0 143 242 59.1 1554 9 3.7 9 3.7 53 6.4 5.5 10.9 222.0 75.0 13

23 Brett Favre MIN 41 8 0 162 258 62.8 1896 9 3.5 13 5.0 37 7.3 5.8 11.7 237.0 75.7 17

24 Chad Henne MIA 25 8 0 176 277 63.5 1900 8 2.9 10 3.6 46 6.9 5.8 10.8 237.5 78.2 12

25 Michael Vick PHI 30 5 0 76 125 60.8 1017 7 5.6 0 0.0 61 8.1 9.3 13.4 203.4 105.3 14

26 Jason Campbell OAK 29 7 0 97 171 56.7 1252 7 4.1 5 2.9 69 7.3 6.8 12.9 178.9 81.3 19

27 Donovan McNabb WAS 34 8 0 159 277 57.4 1971 7 2.5 8 2.9 62 7.1 6.3 12.4 246.4 76.0 22

28 Matthew Stafford DET 22 3 0 57 96 59.4 535 6 6.3 1 1.0 36 5.6 6.4 9.4 178.3 91.3 4

29 Kevin Kolb PHI 26 5 0 97 153 63.4 1035 6 3.9 4 2.6 83 6.8 6.4 10.7 207.0 85.3 10

30 Matt Hasselbeck SEA 35 7 0 135 236 57.2 1411 6 2.5 7 3.0 52 6.0 5.2 10.5 201.6 70.8 22

31 Ben Roethlisberger PIT 28 3 0 52 82 63.4 754 5 6.1 2 2.4 53 9.2 9.3 14.5 251.3 103.4 6

32 Kerry Collins TEN 38 4 0 53 87 60.9 587 5 5.7 3 3.4 80 6.7 6.3 11.1 146.8 85.8 5

33 Matt Moore CAR 26 6 0 79 143 55.2 857 5 3.5 10 7.0 39 6.0 3.5 10.8 142.8 55.6 13

34 Derek Anderson ARI 27 8 0 98 181 54.1 1159 5 2.8 7 3.9 37 6.4 5.2 11.8 144.9 67.0 16

35 Seneca Wallace CLE 30 5 0 63 100 63.0 693 4 4.0 2 2.0 65 6.9 6.8 11.0 138.6 88.5 6

36 Bruce Gradkowski OAK 27 4 0 53 101 52.5 709 4 4.0 4 4.0 70 7.0 6.0 13.4 177.3 71.8 7

37 Jon Kitna DAL 38 3 0 69 112 61.6 749 4 3.6 6 5.4 41 6.7 5.0 10.9 249.7 70.9 9

 

 

Well said. I couldn't agree more.

Edited November 10, 2010 by Bart

[BillsVet]

But even Brady has fallen short since their defense has begun to tank. That Saints D last year was NO JOKE. The Super Bowl winning Colts faced a Bears team that had gone to the luck well one-too-many times. They were simply and inferior team. Big Ben threw less than 20 passes/game in his first Super Bowl bid, and the year they won it over the Cards was by the narrowest margins and included a defensive score right before half. The 08 Giants won on the backs of their D, and the 2002 Bucs were ALL D all the time.

 

Even the great ones have great supporting casts. So if we're going to talk Super Bowl, this team needs a WHOLE lot more help than just quarterback to make all the pieces go. And given the level of Fitz's play AND the unlikelihood that a Superman in cleats--the likes of whom could win when Fitz couldn't--probably doesn't exist right now, I maintain ADAMANTLY that we DON'T draft a quarterback in 2011 with our first pick.

 

Oh look, another TBC thread that posits a theory and then follows with the OP blasting people for not bowing to his omniscience. Each SB winner since 1999 has done it primarily with:

 

A. An outstanding QB or

B. A game manager type with a stellar defense.

 

And while this isn't an argument completely in absolutes, it's quite clear that a finding a long term answer at QB can make a huge difference. Like anything, there are exceptions to this, but a good front office with a high pick and in need of a QB will make the right pick.

 

As for taking a QB or not, the proof is there: in the last 10 drafts, 8 teams have used the top pick on QB's. If rebuilds don't begin with QB's, what does a rebuilding team select with their top overall pick? Only MIA in 08 and HOU in 06 took anything but a QB, and those years there was no clear cut top QB at #1 overall.

[John from Riverside]

I think the pick is Luck IF HE COMES OUT

 

I just think that we cannot afford to not take the closest thing to a sure thing with that number 1 pick.....and Luck appears to be that.

 

A couple of things

 

- Nobody seems to be able to tell me that the next Bruce Smith or cant miss left tackle is coming out in this next draft.

 

- Plenty of people can tell me (and I can see it myself) that Andrew Luck is a franchise QB

 

- I think it puts us in a win win.....while I am def impressed with Fitz play....I am also afraid that he will go back to the QB we saw LAST year and I have not forgotten that. Should that happen then taking Luck will end up being 100 percent the right pick.....and even if Fitz DOES keep up this level of play we go from having no QB's to a very good one and a potential pro bowl one.

 

- If we dont do a lot of trading down in this draft I really hope we are active in free agency....depending on what Merrimen looks like good aquisitions would be veteran Tight End like Zach Miller from the raiders, Tamba Hali from Kansas City....another veteran OG.....then with the 2nd pick go ROT....then defense, defense, defense.

[finknottle]

I'm not saying that Luck or Mallet are Brady or Manning but the point of a Franchise or Elite QB is this.

 

If you put Trent Edwards on the 2010 Colts, the team is 6-10 at best.

If you put Trent Edwards on the 2010 Pats, the team is 6-10 at best.

 

I don't think many people that watch football would really argue with the above statements.

 

Funny, you stick Edwards on a Dick Jauron-coached Buffalo Bills team and he is 7-9. Are you saying the Bills have been better than the Colts and Pats the last few years? Or would Edwards have actually led the Colts and Pats to winning records or - dare I say it - the playoffs?

[1B4IDie]

Funny, you stick Edwards on a Dick Jauron-coached Buffalo Bills team and he is 7-9. Are you saying the Bills have been better than the Colts and Pats the last few years? Or would Edwards have actually led the Colts and Pats to winning records or - dare I say it - the playoffs?

1. When exactly did Edwards play 16 games ?

2. How you could read my post and respond with that nonsense is beyond me.