Only Ralph gains from gains being in Toronto

[billsfreak]

Ralph really sold out his team, his fanbase, the players and any team sponsors by pocketing nearly 80 million dollars to play 3 preseason and 5 regular season games in Toronto. In all three regular season games so far, the Bills were the visiting team, with the exception of the markings on the field. All three games the other team had more fans than the Bills did in one of their supposedly eight "home" games. We only have 7 home games every year compared to every other team in the league having 8 (with the rare exception of a team playing in England or wherever Goodell sends them). The players don't like it, Whitner pretty much said they probably win today if they were in Buffalo, as there was no crowd noise to interfere with Cutler calling plays. This team is already at a disadvantage with the NFL's worst and cheapest owner, the worst and most inexpensive front office, a coaching staff that was purchased at the Dollar Tree store, and a small and relatively less rich economy, and Ralph throws one more obstacle for the team to overcome. I don't see where he has put any of the millions he got for this deal anywhere but his wallet, he sure doesn't spend it on the team or oganization. It shows you what the majority of us have always known, Ralph puts the almighty dollar way above being a successful franchise, which has in turn led to this team being the laughing stock of the NFL.

[birdog1960]

it's deals like this that put him in the hall of fame..he was doubly successful in this one, fleecing rogers and all bills fans simultaneously. well done, wilson. you should be very proud

[cossack]

Short sighted post. Bashing Ralph is popular, bashing Toronto is popular, combining the two is pure genius right? Not exactly.

 

We didn't lose because the game was in Toronto, we lost because we're not that good. Period.

 

Now, think of the numbers and what they mean to the Bills. I've posted this before after the preseason game vs Cincy, here it is again:

 

 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

What everyone seems to be missing right now but will become gradually more obvious as this deal enters its final two years is that this whole venture was excellent at least for the short to medium term viability of the Bills in BUFFALO.

 

Regardless of whether the Rogers Center is half empty and Rogers is losing money hand over fist, the Bills are still getting paid the same. It's a fixed price per game agreement.

 

Don't forget that the Bills are getting an estimated $9.75 Million per game, INCLUDING pre-season games. A REGULAR season game at the Ralph nets the Bills just under 5 million dollars, likely much less during the pre-season.

 

"The $9.75 million figure for the average Bills game in Toronto represents a windfall profit for the team, or roughly twice what the Bills can gross even from a sold-out game.

 

The team can realize about $3.8 million in gross ticket sales for an average home sellout in Orchard Park; additional game-day revenue increases that to about $5 million."

 

(source: Rogers Center)

 

I know there are a lot of Russ Brandon haters out there and he was terrible in a GM role, but this is an absolute slam dunk and he robbed Rogers silly. This ensure a steady stream of additional revenues that can only help stabilize the Bills' financial situation in the immediate term. in 4 games in Toronto (half of which are wasted pre-season games at the Ralph) you can essentially generate direct revenue equal to a full season in Buffalo. In other words, it represents a 20% increase in revenue just for holding two games in Toronto this year, and this does not account for the savings associated with not having to run the stadium (lights, staff, etc) on game day.

 

Yea, as season ticket holders we lose one regular season game for a few years. Not a bad deal to help ensure the Bills stay in Buffalo. If only it wasn't so obvious that Rogers was hemorrhaging money, this could go on for a bit longer.......

 

The real beauty in this lies in the unpredictable outcome that followed:

 

The over inflated prices set by Rogers to make up for the price they paid (who thought that, as usual, they were the only show in town when 20+K Canadians happily make the drive to Buffalo every game day), ensure that the stands are less than full and in return Toronto looks like a poor choice for an NFL team, and therefore a poor location to move the Bills to. Gone will be the talks of moving the Bills to Toronto.

[birdog1960]

 

 

 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

What everyone seems to be missing right now but will become gradually more obvious as this deal enters its final two years is that this whole venture was excellent at least for the short to medium term viability of the Bills in BUFFALO.

 

Regardless of whether the Rogers Center is half empty and Rogers is losing money hand over fist, the Bills are still getting paid the same. It's a fixed price per game agreement.

 

Don't forget that the Bills are getting an estimated $9.75 Million per game, INCLUDING pre-season games. A REGULAR season game at the Ralph nets the Bills just under 5 million dollars, likely much less during the pre-season.

 

"The $9.75 million figure for the average Bills game in Toronto represents a windfall profit for the team, or roughly twice what the Bills can gross even from a sold-out game.

 

The team can realize about $3.8 million in gross ticket sales for an average home sellout in Orchard Park; additional game-day revenue increases that to about $5 million."

 

(source: Rogers Center)

 

I know there are a lot of Russ Brandon haters out there and he was terrible in a GM role, but this is an absolute slam dunk and he robbed Rogers silly. This ensure a steady stream of additional revenues that can only help stabilize the Bills' financial situation in the immediate term. in 4 games in Toronto (half of which are wasted pre-season games at the Ralph) you can essentially generate direct revenue equal to a full season in Buffalo. In other words, it represents a 20% increase in revenue just for holding two games in Toronto this year, and this does not account for the savings associated with not having to run the stadium (lights, staff, etc) on game day.

 

Yea, as season ticket holders we lose one regular season game for a few years. Not a bad deal to help ensure the Bills stay in Buffalo. If only it wasn't so obvious that Rogers was hemorrhaging money, this could go on for a bit longer.......

 

The real beauty in this lies in the unpredictable outcome that followed:

 

The over inflated prices set by Rogers to make up for the price they paid (who thought that, as usual, they were the only show in town when 20+K Canadians happily make the drive to Buffalo every game day), ensure that the stands are less than full and in return Toronto looks like a poor choice for an NFL team, and therefore a poor location to move the Bills to. Gone will be the talks of moving the Bills to Toronto.

yup, pure genius...but shouldn't winning games at least be a collateral goal?

Edited November 8, 2010 by birdog1960

[Doc]

And the Rogers group wants to bring more games to Toronto. I certainly wouldn't have expected that.

[BillsVet]

Give the Canadian press credit for discussing this subject:

 

Canoe on Wilson article

 

It's a hallmark of RW's teams that they be business first, second, and third. Winning is optional so long as a healthy profit is generated. Of course he and the others must speak publicly about winning, but is there a veritable commitment to winning on the field? Not really, but we're inundated with why the contract with Rogers was necessary and RW is on record as saying the infusion of cash won't go toward player salaries. No surprise there.

 

So the team cuts player salaries 25M from 2010 to 2009, they continue pocketing Rogers' 9.75M per game, and the team is 0-8? Yeah, I'd say RW is winning but not the way fans want. Perhaps that's how they want it anyway.

Edited November 8, 2010 by BillsVet

[Mr. WEO]

Short sighted post. Bashing Ralph is popular, bashing Toronto is popular, combining the two is pure genius right? Not exactly.

 

We didn't lose because the game was in Toronto, we lost because we're not that good. Period.

 

Now, think of the numbers and what they mean to the Bills. I've posted this before after the preseason game vs Cincy, here it is again:

 

 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

What everyone seems to be missing right now but will become gradually more obvious as this deal enters its final two years is that this whole venture was excellent at least for the short to medium term viability of the Bills in BUFFALO.

 

Regardless of whether the Rogers Center is half empty and Rogers is losing money hand over fist, the Bills are still getting paid the same. It's a fixed price per game agreement.

 

Don't forget that the Bills are getting an estimated $9.75 Million per game, INCLUDING pre-season games. A REGULAR season game at the Ralph nets the Bills just under 5 million dollars, likely much less during the pre-season.

 

"The $9.75 million figure for the average Bills game in Toronto represents a windfall profit for the team, or roughly twice what the Bills can gross even from a sold-out game.

 

The team can realize about $3.8 million in gross ticket sales for an average home sellout in Orchard Park; additional game-day revenue increases that to about $5 million."

 

(source: Rogers Center)

 

I know there are a lot of Russ Brandon haters out there and he was terrible in a GM role, but this is an absolute slam dunk and he robbed Rogers silly. This ensure a steady stream of additional revenues that can only help stabilize the Bills' financial situation in the immediate term. in 4 games in Toronto (half of which are wasted pre-season games at the Ralph) you can essentially generate direct revenue equal to a full season in Buffalo. In other words, it represents a 20% increase in revenue just for holding two games in Toronto this year, and this does not account for the savings associated with not having to run the stadium (lights, staff, etc) on game day.

 

Yea, as season ticket holders we lose one regular season game for a few years. Not a bad deal to help ensure the Bills stay in Buffalo. If only it wasn't so obvious that Rogers was hemorrhaging money, this could go on for a bit longer.......

 

The real beauty in this lies in the unpredictable outcome that followed:

 

The over inflated prices set by Rogers to make up for the price they paid (who thought that, as usual, they were the only show in town when 20+K Canadians happily make the drive to Buffalo every game day), ensure that the stands are less than full and in return Toronto looks like a poor choice for an NFL team, and therefore a poor location to move the Bills to. Gone will be the talks of moving the Bills to Toronto.

This is total BS. It is clear that that $78 million did nothing to change the viability of the Bills in Buffalo in the short, medium or long term. This nonsense gets repeated over and over, yet there is no logic to it. The money went into Ralph's pocket. The team lost yet another game in that lame and disinterested venue. Canadians were already going to a sold out Ralph Wilson Stadium for years---why sell out the Americans, Ralph?

 

How can anyone believe there is any good to Wilson whoring out a once proud franchise?

[billsfreak]

And the Rogers group wants to bring more games to Toronto. I certainly wouldn't have expected that.

The ultimate goal of that group is to bring the team and all of the games to Toronto. There are substantial rumors that they are discussing at least doubling the number of games in Toronto if not nearly a 50/50 split. Using this series to keep the Bills in Buffalo was just a lame ass excuse by Ralph to fatten his wallet.

 

Short sighted post. Bashing Ralph is popular, bashing Toronto is popular, combining the two is pure genius right? Not exactly.

 

We didn't lose because the game was in Toronto, we lost because we're not that good. Period.

 

Now, think of the numbers and what they mean to the Bills. I've posted this before after the preseason game vs Cincy, here it is again:

 

 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

What everyone seems to be missing right now but will become gradually more obvious as this deal enters its final two years is that this whole venture was excellent at least for the short to medium term viability of the Bills in BUFFALO.

 

Regardless of whether the Rogers Center is half empty and Rogers is losing money hand over fist, the Bills are still getting paid the same. It's a fixed price per game agreement.

 

Don't forget that the Bills are getting an estimated $9.75 Million per game, INCLUDING pre-season games. A REGULAR season game at the Ralph nets the Bills just under 5 million dollars, likely much less during the pre-season.

 

"The $9.75 million figure for the average Bills game in Toronto represents a windfall profit for the team, or roughly twice what the Bills can gross even from a sold-out game.

 

The team can realize about $3.8 million in gross ticket sales for an average home sellout in Orchard Park; additional game-day revenue increases that to about $5 million."

 

(source: Rogers Center)

 

I know there are a lot of Russ Brandon haters out there and he was terrible in a GM role, but this is an absolute slam dunk and he robbed Rogers silly. This ensure a steady stream of additional revenues that can only help stabilize the Bills' financial situation in the immediate term. in 4 games in Toronto (half of which are wasted pre-season games at the Ralph) you can essentially generate direct revenue equal to a full season in Buffalo. In other words, it represents a 20% increase in revenue just for holding two games in Toronto this year, and this does not account for the savings associated with not having to run the stadium (lights, staff, etc) on game day.

 

Yea, as season ticket holders we lose one regular season game for a few years. Not a bad deal to help ensure the Bills stay in Buffalo. If only it wasn't so obvious that Rogers was hemorrhaging money, this could go on for a bit longer.......

 

The real beauty in this lies in the unpredictable outcome that followed:

 

The over inflated prices set by Rogers to make up for the price they paid (who thought that, as usual, they were the only show in town when 20+K Canadians happily make the drive to Buffalo every game day), ensure that the stands are less than full and in return Toronto looks like a poor choice for an NFL team, and therefore a poor location to move the Bills to. Gone will be the talks of moving the Bills to Toronto.

Mine was a short sighted post? Really? If you really believe what you post, and not that this is only to put money in Ralphs pocket, or even step one to move even more games if not all of them to Toronto, than you personally live in a short sighted world.

[birdog1960]

Give the Canadian press credit for discussing this subject:

 

Canoe on Wilson article

 

 

it's comforting to know that wilson had a nice meal in toronto. how many games has he attended in buffalo this year. why would this game be apriority for him to attend?

[jad1]

it's comforting to know that wilson had a nice meal in toronto. how many games has he attended in buffalo this year. why would this game be apriority for him to attend?

 

He showed up to this game to pick up the game check. Tomorrow he goes to his bank in Detroit.

[jr1]

9 road games is playing with 1 hand tied behind the players' backs. Ralph didn't use the Toronto money to bring in Gruden or any other coach that would make players want to come here

[akm0404]

Ralph Wilson: The only owner in the NFL that will sell competitive advantage in actual regular season games for cash money.

Edited November 8, 2010 by akm0404

[SoggyHog]

What Ralph doesn't understand is that he would make more money OVERALL if he put a winning product on the field. End of discussion!

[Wilson's Ears]

What Ralph doesn't understand is that he would make more money OVERALL if he put a winning product on the field. End of discussion!

 

 

i totally agree... he had the chance to continue what polian built in the 90's but decided to save a few bucks by firing him... wilson is undeniably the root cause of this franchises failure. when, not if, this teams moves bills fans will have the "almighty" ralph to blame. this toronto series is a total joke and a smokescreen to eventually move the bills. if you can't see it you're kidding yourself. will never understand how this dumb ass got elected into the hall of fame.

[Mr. WEO]

Give the Canadian press credit for discussing this subject:

 

Canoe on Wilson article

 

It's a hallmark of RW's teams that they be business first, second, and third. Winning is optional so long as a healthy profit is generated. Of course he and the others must speak publicly about winning, but is there a veritable commitment to winning on the field? Not really, but we're inundated with why the contract with Rogers was necessary and RW is on record as saying the infusion of cash won't go toward player salaries. No surprise there.

 

So the team cuts player salaries 25M from 2010 to 2009, they continue pocketing Rogers' 9.75M per game, and the team is 0-8? Yeah, I'd say RW is winning but not the way fans want. Perhaps that's how they want it anyway.

Ralph has no shame. How could he do this? 3 seasons in, how does he now justify it?

[dwight in philly]

i am in total agreement with fans on here concerning ralph's money grab . it sickens me every time i am watching these fiascos in toronto . say what you want about jerry sullivan, but his article today sums up my feelings about the game yesterday, and what my thoughts were during the game. the competitive edge that the team loses every time it goes up there frosts my a$$. we have discussed ralph on here ad infinitum, but this really tips the scales for me, i hate what he has done to the loyal fan base in WNY. long term viability be damned!, it is total bullsh-t. this team can survive in WNY without the toronto series. do i have any facts or figures to back that premise?, no, but it is pure conjecture to believe otherwise.

[JohnC]

This is total BS. It is clear that that $78 million did nothing to change the viability of the Bills in Buffalo in the short, medium or long term. This nonsense gets repeated over and over, yet there is no logic to it. The money went into Ralph's pocket. The team lost yet another game in that lame and disinterested venue. Canadians were already going to a sold out Ralph Wilson Stadium for years---why sell out the Americans, Ralph?

 

How can anyone believe there is any good to Wilson whoring out a once proud franchise?

 

I heartily agree with you. The owner pocketed the Toronto heist money ($78 M) and cut the payroll of the team even more. How does that increase the viability of the team? What I find confounding is that people believe such propaganda. It goes beyond being gullible; it is outright stupid.

 

When Al Davis sold some of the shares of his ownership a couple of years ago he used a large chunk of the proceeds to add to the team payroll. Was the money smartly spent? Probably not. But at least he is trying to compete. Ralph Wilson could care less. He is not even bothering to go through the charade of seriously trying to get better.

 

The standard response to those who bring up the fraudulent nature of the owner's seriousness in competing and his primary interest in mazimizing the bottom line at the expense of being competitive is to be vilified.

 

What is really absurd is not how bad the Bills are and for how long they have been bad as much as there is still a large percentage of people who actually believe that this obnoxious owner has the best interest of the fans and region.

[The Senator]

The ultimate goal of that group is to bring the team and all of the games to Toronto. There are substantial rumors that they are discussing at least doubling the number of games in Toronto if not nearly a 50/50 split. Using this series to keep the Bills in Buffalo was just a lame ass excuse by Ralph to fatten his wallet.

The Bills will be playing the majority (minimally 7) of their home games in WNY long after Rogers Stadium and the Rogers Communications empire lies in crumbled ruins. Ralph Wilson assured that when he firmly staked out Toronto and Southern Ontario as a market owned by the Buffalo franchise.

 

Mine was a short sighted post? Really? If you really believe what you post, and not that this is only to put money in Ralphs pocket, or even step one to move even more games if not all of them to Toronto, than you personally live in a short sighted world.

Ridiculously short-sighted, and exceeded in total ignorance only by WEO's post - but his ignorance is usually hard to beat, do don't get too down on yourself!

 

Did Ralph profit from the Toronto deal? Of course he did. He also profited tremendously from $25,000 he invested in a little something called the American Football League and the Buffalo Bills, way back in 1959. Did that bring any benefit to Buffalo, or was that also just something to line Ralph's pockets?

 

Here's a little scoop for you - businessmen have a right to profit from their investments. What would YOU do if some idiot from Toronto came to you and said, "Here's $80 million - why don't you agree to play regular-season 5 games up here - one each season - for the next five years?"

 

The pure Ralph Wilson genius of it all is that, by making Toronto a 'second home field' for the Bills, Toronto is now effectively established as the Bills home turf and anyone who would even think about trying to establish a rival NFL franchise there would have to deal with the Bills, and likely be faced with a prohibitive annuity/perpetuity for infringing on the Bills' market. (Think Baltimore Colts paying Washington Redskins $150K back in 1950, and imagine the value of that money today, along with the magnitude of value explosion that the NFL has experienced since 60 years ago, then try to come up with an appropriate dollar-amount based on today's value - it would be astronomical!)

 

Ralph Wilson's ownership has been great for Buffalo, despite some rough losing cycles that every team goes through on a regular basis. You and others can continue to ignorantly opine otherwise but - believe me - were it not for Ralph, this team would have been gone from Western New York DECADES ago!!!

Edited November 8, 2010 by The Senator

[Mularkey]

If you put a winning product out there year in and year out, maybe a year or two below .500 and revenue is not an issue (not a huge issue now in my opinion). Not only would you sell out most if not all games as the Bills already do but corporate sponsors would jump on board. Why, because it would be a hot ticket, in demand and the buzz would be enough to get those luxury boxes sold. Also, sell the freakin' naming rights for the stadium. Ralph has to pay more up front (to the front office and personnel)to get it back later. Spend money to make money. The last 10+ years of crap on the field has made corporations stay away from luxury suites and the Bills altogether. I know the economy in Western NY is terrible, but enough corporations would come out of the woodwork if the Bills were perennial contenders. It starts with Ralph, unfortunately he is too set in his ways to turn this around before he passes and once that happens, everything changes due to debt load of a new owner. Only then can I begin to think the Bills may not be sustainable in Buffalo.

Edited November 8, 2010 by Mularkey

[billsfreak]

The Bills will be playing the majority (minimally 7) of their home games in WNY long after Rogers Stadium and the Rogers Communications empire lies in crumbled ruins. Ralph Wilson assured that when he firmly staked out Toronto and Southern Ontario as a market owned by the Buffalo franchise.

 

 

Ridiculously short-sighted, and exceeded in total ignorance only by WEO's post - but his ignorance is usually hard to beat, do don't get too down on yourself!

 

Did Ralph profit from the Toronto deal? Of course he did. He also profited tremendously from $25,000 he invested in a little something called the American Football League and the Buffalo Bills, way back in 1959. Did that bring any benefit to Buffalo, or was that also just something to line Ralph's pockets?

 

Here's a little scoop for you - businessmen have a right to profit from their investments. What would YOU do if some idiot from Toronto came to you and said, "Here's $80 million - why don't you agree to play regular-season 5 games up here - one each season - for the next five years?"

 

The pure Ralph Wilson genius of it all is that, by making Toronto a 'second home field' for the Bills, Toronto is now effectively established as the Bills home turf and anyone who would even think about trying to establish a rival NFL franchise there would have to deal with the Bills, and likely be faced with a prohibitive annuity/perpetuity for infringing on the Bills' market. (Think Baltimore Colts paying Washington Redskins $150K back in 1950, and imagine the value of that money today, along with the magnitude of value explosion that the NFL has experienced since 60 years ago, then try to come up with an appropriate dollar-amount based on today's value - it would be astronomical!)

 

Ralph Wilson's ownership has been great for Buffalo, despite some rough losing cycles that every team goes through on a regular basis. You and others can continue to ignorantly opine otherwise but - believe me - were it not for Ralph, this team would have been gone from Western New York DECADES ago!!!

You are living in a fantasy world. Of course businessmen have the right to profit from their investments, and if Ralph made this team better, he stil would be profiting, you can't lose money owning a team in the NFL. The equivalent of Ralph would be if Bill Gates, the richest man in the world, just decided to pocket all his money and not improve any of his computer programs/games, would that be a good example of a businessman running his company good? I hardly doubt so. Any proficiently run business reinvests some of their earnings back into the company, to make the company better, Ralph doesn't even dream about doing that. He is a money hungry old coot who has the best interest of his team, organization, the fans and WNY so far down on his list, that it might not as well even be there at all. You can go ahead and keep believing the BS tha that you do about the great Mr. Wilson and his genious plan to keep the Bills in Buffalo, I will stay with the other 99% of Bills fans and believe the obvious truth.