Bills Bonds Posted November 6, 2010 Posted November 6, 2010 Below is a brief explanation of the idea. Please visit the recently launched website (www.BillsBonds.com) and find us on facebook and twitter, if you are interested. We’re interested to hear your thoughts. ______________________________________________________ - A way for Buffalo Bills fans to invest in the future of their team and to help keep the Bills where they belong -- in Buffalo. - A way of tweaking the Green Bay Packers idea of selling stock to fans so that it complies with current NFL Bylaws. - A way for fans to help save the Bills, while saving money. Please visit the www.BillsBonds.com for more information. ______________________________________________________ Buffalo Bills fans realize that the team is at risk of leaving Buffalo. What's frustrating is that it seems that there's almost nothing fans can do to effect whether the team stays or goes. When Ralph Wilson, Jr. passes away and the team changes ownership, fans will be on the sideline hoping that the new ownership group keeps the Bills in Buffalo rather than moving the franchise to a larger market. This doesn’t have to be the case. Fans do not have to sit idly by and just hope for the best. In 1923, with the Green Bay Packers on the brink of brink of bankruptcy, fans bought the team by purchasing shares of Packers stock. NFL Bylaws now prevent Bills fans from replicating this idea, but with a twist to the Packers idea Bills fans could invest in the future of the Bills. Bills fans could provide a “loan” to a new ownership group that is committed to keep the Bills in Buffalo. Proceeds from that loan, or more specifically bonds (a loan chopped into many pieces and sold to the public), would be used by the new ownership group to help pay the ~$800 million price tag for the team. The Bills new ownership would then pay the bondholders back overtime plus interest with cash flows generated by the team. By purchasing these bonds (called Bills Bonds) fans would be saving the team, while saving money. Please visit BillsBonds.com for more information.
Dr. Trooth Posted November 6, 2010 Posted November 6, 2010 Just send your money to Dr. Trooth Enterprises.
drinkTHEkoolaid Posted November 6, 2010 Posted November 6, 2010 just deposit it right into my paypal account
Bills Bonds Posted November 6, 2010 Author Posted November 6, 2010 just deposit it right into my paypal account Nobody is asking for money at this point . . . It's just an idea that tweaks the Packers idea of selling stock to fans, so that it complies with currrent NFL Bylaws. Wouldn't fans rather have a voice than just hoping for the best?
May Day 10 Posted November 6, 2010 Posted November 6, 2010 (edited) It states some assumptions and hypotheses as fact regarding Wilson's intentions and the future. To me it discredits the whole thing a bit, I would suggest toning it down... Maybe break down all the possibilities. The headlines on the front page scroll way too quickly and its hard to read the writing. There are also numerous costs associated with this. Lawyers and Accounting fees would be very high. That amount, would not be recovered and gain ROI. I would think that ROI in general isnt worth it. People arent doing this for investments sake. Im not going to give $1,000 waiting for 2% interest over 20 years when inflation is going to destroy that. Financially its not an incentive. I would be fine just getting the money back, or even just saving the team and having token voting rights or something. Im glad someone is organizing and trying to fight. Its an interesting idea, just very tough to get the snowball rolling. Then there is always the possibility that if everything goes right, and it turns out to be futile, and there are $ Millions of dollars to divvy up (minus all operational fees). You should explore every possible result with the money, who would be possibly be solicited with the Bond Fund, what prevents an owner from taking it, signing a non binding lease, then bolting. What if the owner/recipient goes bankrupt, what if Mr Wilson lives 20 more years and holds onto the team, etc... Just a little constructive criticism. Im sure its a work in progress and this is just the tip. Edited November 6, 2010 by May Day 10
Bills Bonds Posted November 6, 2010 Author Posted November 6, 2010 It states some assumptions and hypotheses as fact regarding Wilson's intentions and the future. To me it discredits the whole thing a bit, I would suggest toning it down... Maybe break down all the possibilities. The headlines on the front page scroll way too quickly and its hard to read the writing. There are also numerous costs associated with this. Lawyers and Accounting fees would be very high. That amount, would not be recovered and gain ROI. I would think that ROI in general isnt worth it. People arent doing this for investments sake. Im not going to give $1,000 waiting for 2% interest over 20 years when inflation is going to destroy that. Financially its not an incentive. I would be fine just getting the money back, or even just saving the team and having token voting rights or something. Im glad someone is organizing and trying to fight. Its an interesting idea, just very tough to get the snowball rolling. Then there is always the possibility that if everything goes right, and it turns out to be futile, and there are $ Millions of dollars to divvy up. Appreciate your comments. The website was just launched last night, and there are still a number of things we are working to fix (the scroll is moving too quickly). Your points about the transaction costs and ROI are well taken. I agree that fans would likely be more excited about helping to keep the Bills in Buffalo than a 2% return. The fact that the Packers were able to raise $24 million in 1999 by selling "stock" in a non-profit entity supports that point.
SoulMan Posted November 6, 2010 Posted November 6, 2010 If Bills fans really care about the team, this is a chance to man up. It is a fine idea.
Captain Hindsight Posted November 6, 2010 Posted November 6, 2010 This is an interesting idea. My biggest cincern is knowing exactly who im sending money to. If its Jimbo to help keep the Bills in WNY im all for it
Meathead Posted November 6, 2010 Posted November 6, 2010 you got the cartoonist ricig to do the bflo didnt you
Blaise321 Posted November 6, 2010 Posted November 6, 2010 Very interesting idea. There's obviously a lot of questions to be addressed with this idea but i believe this could be a good starting point for something that may become a viable plan.
bbb Posted November 6, 2010 Posted November 6, 2010 Below is a brief explanation of the idea. Please visit the recently launched website (www.BillsBonds.com) and find us on facebook and twitter, if you are interested. We’re interested to hear your thoughts. ______________________________________________________ - A way for Buffalo Bills fans to invest in the future of their team and to help keep the Bills where they belong -- in Buffalo. - A way of tweaking the Green Bay Packers idea of selling stock to fans so that it complies with current NFL Bylaws. - A way for fans to help save the Bills, while saving money. Please visit the www.BillsBonds.com for more information. ______________________________________________________ Buffalo Bills fans realize that the team is at risk of leaving Buffalo. What's frustrating is that it seems that there's almost nothing fans can do to effect whether the team stays or goes. When Ralph Wilson, Jr. passes away and the team changes ownership, fans will be on the sideline hoping that the new ownership group keeps the Bills in Buffalo rather than moving the franchise to a larger market. This doesn’t have to be the case. Fans do not have to sit idly by and just hope for the best. In 1923, with the Green Bay Packers on the brink of brink of bankruptcy, fans bought the team by purchasing shares of Packers stock. NFL Bylaws now prevent Bills fans from replicating this idea, but with a twist to the Packers idea Bills fans could invest in the future of the Bills. Bills fans could provide a “loan” to a new ownership group that is committed to keep the Bills in Buffalo. Proceeds from that loan, or more specifically bonds (a loan chopped into many pieces and sold to the public), would be used by the new ownership group to help pay the ~$800 million price tag for the team. The Bills new ownership would then pay the bondholders back overtime plus interest with cash flows generated by the team. By purchasing these bonds (called Bills Bonds) fans would be saving the team, while saving money. Please visit BillsBonds.com for more information. I'd have to do more research, etc. but I love your thinking BillsBonds.
Bills Bonds Posted November 6, 2010 Author Posted November 6, 2010 you got the cartoonist ricig to do the bflo didnt you You're right on . . I'm impressed . . This is an interesting idea. My biggest cincern is knowing exactly who im sending money to. If its Jimbo to help keep the Bills in WNY im all for it Very valid concern – in order for the idea to really take off a new ownership group (like the group Kelly is assembling) would have to get behind it. There’s plenty of incentive for a group like Kelly’s to get behind the idea though because it would provide low interest financing for their purchase of the Bills . . . like buying a house with a low-interest mortgage Maybe it time a new ownership group will support the idea. The idea was only launched yesterday afterall . .
Meathead Posted November 6, 2010 Posted November 6, 2010 i would strongly consider doing something like this if it could keep the team here but i have two difficult observations that need to be considered: - why would a new owner accept responsibility for a loan to the fans? even if it was zero interest its still another obligation they dont have to endure if they just move the team. seems like this would only be helpful to someone already wanting to keep the team here, which in that case might make it easier for jimbo to realize his dream. but for other owners whatever advantage it provides quickly vanishes when compared to the added income potential of another host city. also, local revenue without future obligation could be generated simply by selling inscribed bricks like theyve done at other new stadiums (wouldnt need a new stadium, just a new walkway or something). i suppose they could do both, but then you run the risk of giving fans an emotional 'out' (the rationale that i did one so i dont need to do the other) - how does this improve the luxury box issue? the bills must find a way to get their boxes full and at high prices to remain viable. this could help with the initial ownership transfer and potentially delay the box issue if enough money was raised, but sooner or later those boxes have to be filled. a new owner will be acutely aware of that, so other than somebody with a vested interest in keeping the team here at almost all costs will not find this initiative helpful with that huge problem looming long term
PromoTheRobot Posted November 6, 2010 Posted November 6, 2010 If, say, a typical investment in Bills Bonds is $1,000, you would still need 800,000 people to step up, and that does not include the cost of managing such an endeavor. You definitely have the right idea, just wondering if there are enough fans to pull it off. I had a similar idea about stadium financing. It would be like a PSL but the fans would actually own their share of the stadium. 70,000 fans would contribute around $11,000 over 20 years to raise $800M. That would add about $50 per game ticket, but they would literally own their seats and could earn a small dividend on every event held in such a facility. PTR
BuffaloRebound Posted November 6, 2010 Posted November 6, 2010 Below is a brief explanation of the idea. Please visit the recently launched website (www.BillsBonds.com) and find us on facebook and twitter, if you are interested. We’re interested to hear your thoughts. ______________________________________________________ - A way for Buffalo Bills fans to invest in the future of their team and to help keep the Bills where they belong -- in Buffalo. - A way of tweaking the Green Bay Packers idea of selling stock to fans so that it complies with current NFL Bylaws. - A way for fans to help save the Bills, while saving money. Please visit the www.BillsBonds.com for more information. ______________________________________________________ Buffalo Bills fans realize that the team is at risk of leaving Buffalo. What's frustrating is that it seems that there's almost nothing fans can do to effect whether the team stays or goes. When Ralph Wilson, Jr. passes away and the team changes ownership, fans will be on the sideline hoping that the new ownership group keeps the Bills in Buffalo rather than moving the franchise to a larger market. This doesn’t have to be the case. Fans do not have to sit idly by and just hope for the best. In 1923, with the Green Bay Packers on the brink of brink of bankruptcy, fans bought the team by purchasing shares of Packers stock. NFL Bylaws now prevent Bills fans from replicating this idea, but with a twist to the Packers idea Bills fans could invest in the future of the Bills. Bills fans could provide a “loan” to a new ownership group that is committed to keep the Bills in Buffalo. Proceeds from that loan, or more specifically bonds (a loan chopped into many pieces and sold to the public), would be used by the new ownership group to help pay the ~$800 million price tag for the team. The Bills new ownership would then pay the bondholders back overtime plus interest with cash flows generated by the team. By purchasing these bonds (called Bills Bonds) fans would be saving the team, while saving money. Please visit BillsBonds.com for more information. Applaud your effort but not sure how you get around the $150m debt cap to purchase an NFL team. Your website mentions this, but that is a huge hurdle to overcome. Unsecured debt is probably a non-starter because why would Bills fans line some billionaire's pockets by giving him/her a below market loan.
ET1062 Posted November 6, 2010 Posted November 6, 2010 This idea couldn't hurt, but I seriously doubt anyone with enough money to purchase the Bills would need a community funded bond. They can get their monies they need through conventional needs, sell their own bonds or get a bank loan.
Bills Bonds Posted November 6, 2010 Author Posted November 6, 2010 Applaud your effort but not sure how you get around the $150m debt cap to purchase an NFL team. Your website mentions this, but that is a huge hurdle to overcome. Unsecured debt is probably a non-starter because why would Bills fans line some billionaire's pockets by giving him/her a below market loan. You're right that the $150 million debt cap is a real hurdle. Most owners that have purchased a team in recent years have structured around this cap though. When Daniel Snyder bought the Redskins 10 years ago, he funded about 1/2 of the $800 million purchase price with debt. It is estimated that he is paying an interest rate of 10% on that debt -- so about $40 million a year (that's more than the Bills generate in profit a year, according to Forbes). Unsecured debt may be a non starter with fans. So maybe fans only fund up until the cap. It still would help. You're right that the heart of this plan is to help multi-millionaires (or a billionaire) keep the Bills in Buffalo. This could be viewed in a negative light. But that may be better than the alternative -- watching another billionaire move the franchise elsewhere. This idea couldn't hurt, but I seriously doubt anyone with enough money to purchase the Bills would need a community funded bond. They can get their monies they need through conventional needs, sell their own bonds or get a bank loan. You're right that they could get debt financing elsewhere. Owners typically get loans from large financial institutions, but these loans are usually made at a juicy interest rate. See the article below by Forbes that estimates that Daniel Snyder pays 10% a year on the debt he used to buy the Redskins. Fans may be willing to buy bonds at a lower rate because they want to see the team stay in Buffalo. http://www.forbes.com/2000/09/08/mu1.html If, say, a typical investment in Bills Bonds is $1,000, you would still need 800,000 people to step up, and that does not include the cost of managing such an endeavor. You definitely have the right idea, just wondering if there are enough fans to pull it off. I had a similar idea about stadium financing. It would be like a PSL but the fans would actually own their share of the stadium. 70,000 fans would contribute around $11,000 over 20 years to raise $800M. That would add about $50 per game ticket, but they would literally own their seats and could earn a small dividend on every event held in such a facility. PTR That is the key question -- could enough fans get behind a fan financing movement? Maybe, maybe not? One reason I think it's possible is that the Packers were able to raise $24 million over 10 years ago by selling stock in a non-profit entity (or essentially through charity since the stock has no monetary value). And the Packers were not at risk of going anywhere. Your seat ownership idea is an interesting one, and as you point out, it's along the lines of something that is already being done PSLs.
bbb Posted November 7, 2010 Posted November 7, 2010 Keep up the good work, BB. You obviously are smart and know finance. We need guys like you.
Bills Bonds Posted November 8, 2010 Author Posted November 8, 2010 Keep up the good work, BB. You obviously are smart and know finance. We need guys like you. Thanks to all who took a look at the idea and to those who responded (with either critiques or encouragement). We are just getting the website and facebook page off the ground and are trying to build some momentum behind the idea, so please help to spread the word and send the website link around to anyone who may be interested. www.BillsBonds.com Thanks again
bbb Posted November 8, 2010 Posted November 8, 2010 Thanks to all who took a look at the idea and to those who responded (with either critiques or encouragement). We are just getting the website and facebook page off the ground and are trying to build some momentum behind the idea, so please help to spread the word and send the website link around to anyone who may be interested. www.BillsBonds.com Thanks again Keep posting here with developments, please.
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