The New Monroe County Voting System Was Designed

[Steely Dan]

These are the machines we used to use when I first started voting and up until the last election. Until the whole Florida debacle in 2000 I thought the entire country used them;

 

http://i545.photobucket.com/albums/hh396/Rfeynman/more%20pics/voting_machine.jpg

 

You'd walk in and pull the red lever and the curtains would close. There was a series of pull tabs. You'd pull down the tab for the candidate you wanted to vote for and when you were finished you'd pull the lever the other way and the tabs would reset, the curtains would open and your votes would be recorded. It was impossible to pull each tab for different candidates running for the same office.

 

They had a plastic numbered pull lock around a hole in the back so you'd know that nobody had opened the machine before representatives from both parties were present to verify the votes.

 

After the representatives had cut the tab and recorded the numbers A new plastic pull tab would be put into place and the number recorded in case a recount was needed.

 

Now we are using an electronic system that is much worse than the machines we used to use, IMO. IIRC, these are the machines that caused so much trouble in the election for Al Franken.

 

They give you a paper ballot and a small black magic marker type pen and send you to a table with dividers that make it so you can easily see the person's ballot sitting next to you.

 

Next to each candidate is a circle. You take the black pen and fill in the circle for the candidate you want to vote for. I had to look at the thing for about twenty seconds until I understood which circle was for each candidate and how the lineup for each office was placed to be absolutely sure I was voting for the candidate I wanted to vote for.

 

The pen they gave me was nearly out of ink but had enough, I think, to adequately record my vote.

 

I then take the ballot to a machine and slide it in, much like a credit card at an ATM machine. It keeps the ballot and tells you that the votes have been recorded.

 

Here's my problem with this. Electronic machines are hackable. A heavy power surge might wipe the hard drive. If you accidentally fill in the wrong circle what do you do? Do you ask for a new ballot and if so then all of the votes you've already made have to be destroyed somehow without anyone seeing them.

 

Some people's pens may be so out of ink that their votes for certain candidates aren't recorded.

 

If there is a close race like the Franken race was each ballot has to be hand counted by representatives of both parties who will argue over some ballots because the circle wasn't fully filled in and the circle for the other candidate is filled in a little more. So who did they intend to vote for? Well throw that ballot away. Hand counting is always less reliable than an old fashioned number counter, IMO. It also doesn't require a ridiculous number of recounts.

 

The county tried, I'm not sure they succeeded, to cut school nurses from the budget and yet are willing to spend money on a less reliable voting system.

 

This is not progress. Sometimes the best way is the old way. JMO

 

There my rant is over. GRRRRRRRRR!!!

[....lybob]

These are the machines we used to use when I first started voting and up until the last election. Until the whole Florida debacle in 2000 I thought the entire country used them;

 

http://i545.photobucket.com/albums/hh396/Rfeynman/more%20pics/voting_machine.jpg

 

You'd walk in and pull the red lever and the curtains would close. There was a series of pull tabs. You'd pull down the tab for the candidate you wanted to vote for and when you were finished you'd pull the lever the other way and the tabs would reset, the curtains would open and your votes would be recorded. It was impossible to pull each tab for different candidates running for the same office.

 

They had a plastic numbered pull lock around a hole in the back so you'd know that nobody had opened the machine before representatives from both parties were present to verify the votes.

 

After the representatives had cut the tab and recorded the numbers A new plastic pull tab would be put into place and the number recorded in case a recount was needed.

 

Now we are using an electronic system that is much worse than the machines we used to use, IMO. IIRC, these are the machines that caused so much trouble in the election for Al Franken.

 

They give you a paper ballot and a small black magic marker type pen and send you to a table with dividers that make it so you can easily see the person's ballot sitting next to you.

 

Next to each candidate is a circle. You take the black pen and fill in the circle for the candidate you want to vote for. I had to look at the thing for about twenty seconds until I understood which circle was for each candidate and how the lineup for each office was placed to be absolutely sure I was voting for the candidate I wanted to vote for.

 

The pen they gave me was nearly out of ink but had enough, I think, to adequately record my vote.

 

I then take the ballot to a machine and slide it in, much like a credit card at an ATM machine. It keeps the ballot and tells you that the votes have been recorded.

 

Here's my problem with this. Electronic machines are hackable. A heavy power surge might wipe the hard drive. If you accidentally fill in the wrong circle what do you do? Do you ask for a new ballot and if so then all of the votes you've already made have to be destroyed somehow without anyone seeing them.

 

Some people's pens may be so out of ink that their votes for certain candidates aren't recorded.

 

If there is a close race like the Franken race was each ballot has to be hand counted by representatives of both parties who will argue over some ballots because the circle wasn't fully filled in and the circle for the other candidate is filled in a little more. So who did they intend to vote for? Well throw that ballot away. Hand counting is always less reliable than an old fashioned number counter, IMO. It also doesn't require a ridiculous number of recounts.

 

The county tried, I'm not sure they succeeded, to cut school nurses from the budget and yet are willing to spend money on a less reliable voting system.

 

This is not progress. Sometimes the best way is the old way. JMO

 

There my rant is over. GRRRRRRRRR!!!

The reason they want to get rid of the old machines (that were simple, and worked fine) is that they are not hackable - every other reason they give is bullcrap.

[Steely Dan]

http://voteup.democratandchronicle.com/story/voting-machine-problems-ontario-county-resolved

 

Voting machine problems in Ontario County resolved

Posted: Nov 02nd, 2010 | Bennett Loudon • Staff Writer

 

There were problems today with voting machines in about a dozen Ontario County precincts in the townships that had municipal elections....

:wallbash:

Edited November 3, 2010 by Steely Dan

[Mike in Syracuse]

I liked the old machines from a pure nostalgia perspective. They're what I watched my parents vote on, they're what I voted on and there was something wonderful about the tactile feel of pulling that lever.

 

BUT, for God sakes you'd have to be retarded to not understand the ballot you were given today. We used the exact same system in Onondaga County and it took me about 1 minute from start to finish. If you were able to graduate from high school you've taken a dozen tests that were no different than what you saw today. Is filling in a circle with a freaking pen really that hard? The advantage these machines have is that there actually IS a paper trail.

 

The fact that we're all not voting online is a freaking travesty. But you have to get past the fact that this isn't 1965 anymore. Most of those machines are ancient, no one wants to make the parts anymore and it's time to move on.

[drnykterstein]

Ya, electronic machines are highly subject to fraud and should really just be outlawed. Even the CIA agrees.

[boyst]

In order to get an "A" in a High School class for seniors you could work the polls for an election. It was a real eye opening, and I got paid, too! It was not a presidential election, nor a major senate election for that matter. I got there 45 minutes late and was yelled at by the 3 old women I was working with for not taking my responsibilities serious. We had these old machines and the women had worked elections for over 20 years a piece and still barely knew how to run them. They would tell voters their thoughts, informally of course. At the end of the evening we pulled out the tape from the machine and secured it in a lock box. All four of us had to witness this. We than pulled out the ballots and hand counted them. There were about 15 polls representing different districts of the community, so 4 per poll @ 5 units. I would watch everyone and half looked like blind reading brail, the other half just glanced at each ballot. Well, there were a few who were meticulous, but in the end of the day we all added up what we got on each and "agreed." We than had to wait until an elections official came by to secure our results...I ended up leaving and didn't really know what happened. I was told that the official would be given the "primary numbers" and they will pull out some units to recount. We would group each set of ballots per machine to make a unit. These were what they used, supposedly, to determine who won.

 

I remember quite a bit, surprisingly, because we had to write papers on it. I had wrote that I found it to be a complete mockery of what a democracy should be and it seemed more like scam. I am not proud of the way I acted at the age of 18 getting to skip a day of school to work the polls but I will not take back this statement: I do not believe in the election process in this country, it is a joke, much like the government it elects.

[Keukasmallies]

Just take a minute and think about the "old" machines: Are we currently paying to store them? How many of them are spread across NYS? Are they recyclable? Probably the same questions to be asked about any given piece of equipment that government decides is obsolete....

[KD in CA]

The reason they want to get rid of the old machines (that were simple, and worked fine) is that they are not hackable - every other reason they give is bullcrap.

 

+1

 

I used the same machines as in the picture my whole life too. They worked perfectly. The fill in the dots and scan deal we have now? Who friggin knows where that data is going.

[....lybob]

[ExiledInIllinois]

Weren't the old machinies prone to jamming... And needed an electrician on staff to service them. You know what party represents the IBEW...

 

And WTF is up with the Sabres... Can they decline a power-play? :wallbash:

 

Now 3-0... Enroth gettiong shelled by the B's...

Edited November 3, 2010 by ExiledInIllinois