Bill Polian's last four drafts

[BuffOrange]

Talk about a stretch by the OP. I prefer to look at it this way. He is good enough assembling talent other than high profile picks. They can afford to bif up some pics. How about finding diamonds in the rough? From Colts.com

 

"Gil Brandt of NFL.com recently compiled a list of the top 75 undrafted free agents of all-time. Three current and former Colts were named to the list: center Jeff Saturday, kicker Adam Vinatieri and wide receiver/return specialist Terrence Wilkins."

 

Or

 

"The Colts’ philosophy has long been one of giving undrafted free agents an opportunity to make the roster. The Colts have uncovered some other undrafted free agent gems. Among them, Dominic Rhodes and Gary Brackett."

 

"Rhodes had signed with the Colts after going undrafted in the 2001 draft. He missed the 2002 season with an injury, but battled back to be a key contributor for the Colts from 2003-06 and the 2008 season. Rhodes helped the Colts to a 29-17 victory in Super Bowl XLI by rushing for 113 yards and one touchdown.

 

Brackett joined the Colts in 2003. The Glassboro, N.J., native was a standout college football player at Rutgers, but was not drafted. Brackett made the Colts squad as an undrafted free agent and primarily made his mark on special teams in his first two seasons. In 2005, Brackett won the starting middle linebacker position in training camp and was named the Colts defensive captain in 2006. He has started the last 72 games he has played in and has over 100 tackles in each of the last five seasons.

 

Now entering his eighth season with the Colts, the former college walk-on and undrafted free agent is considered one of the NFL’s premier middle linebackers.

 

This past season, the Colts had nine regular contributors in addition to Brackett, Saturday and Vinatieri that entered the league as undrafted free agents. The team often started two undrafted free agents in its defensive backfield. Melvin Bullitt (12 starts) and Jacob Lacey (nine starts) combined for 160 tackles, three interceptions and 14 passes defensed. Dan Muir (10 starts) and Eric Foster (five starts) were part of a defensive line that allowed only 10 rushing touchdowns all season. And Ramon Humber, Chad Simpson and Jamie Silva all were special teams standouts for the Colts. Simpson was the team’s kickoff returner, and returned one kickoff for a touchdown at Jacksonville, the Colts first touchdown on a kickoff return since Rhodes had an 88-yard touchdown in 2004. Humber and Silva finished first and second, respectively, on the team in special teams tackles, while Kyle DeVan started the final nine games of the season at RG and Gijon Robinson started 10 games in the H-Back role."

 

Just one. Funny how the Colts don't have to depend on big name drafts picks or FA signing to save them. Don't worry. If the Bills get the 1st round pick odds are they are going to f it up anyway cause thats just the way they roll

 

You're talking about stretches and value diamond in the rough picks and your go-to counterpoints are Terrence Wilkins and Adam Vinateiri?

Wilkins would be about the 4th best Bills return man this decade.

Vinatieri I would say was as much of a "big name" FA as you can possibly have at K - and an overpaid one at that.

Dominic Rhodes was a guy who got carries on a team that won the SB, like the Bucs RB in 2002. Yawn.

Gary Bracket is a nice player. But every team in the league including the Bills has a guy like that who outperformed their draft evaluation.

Edited November 2, 2010 by BuffOrange

[Coach Tuesday]

What a BLEEP you are. I don't like to go out and call people names, but come on man. Really? The guy builds winning teams. Not everyone is gonna a sure pick. But as others have already posted, look at what he finds in the later rounds. He finds solid players for his team to be competitive. And seriously when was the last time the Colts didn't make it to the playoffs????? I'd take Bill Polian back in a heartbeat.

 

Really? THAT is the kind of post that gets someone called a (censored) name around here? I throw out a few facts and suggest a trend, and I'm cursed at?

[All_Pro_Bills]

We can debate the merits of Polian's specific picks and draft classes but you can't argue with results, winning. 13-3, 12-4, 14-2, and 5-2 so far this season.

 

The decision to fire Polian and side with one of the finance guys was probably the biggest of many blunders perpetrated by our owner. That decision just points out where the real power in the organization was, is, and will be until ownership changes hands.

[BillsObserver]

Coach Tuesday - this is a thread that I've been meaning to post for weeks.

 

I didn't know who they drafted but I knew one thing - they weren't making much of a difference. I did know of Donald Brown, who hasn't done squat.

 

And for all those mentioning Collie and Garcon, their success can be credited to Manning who has been working diligently with them. I'm guessing he could make it work with a lot of receivers.

 

I was just thinking the other day - the Colts have had their franchise, all-time great QB for several years now and you would think by now they would have several guys of note stepping up on Defense but that's not the case at all. They got a great one in Freeney and Mathis seems good but there really aren't many names on that defense. And it seems their offensive line has been in transition for a few years now.

 

I don't know what this proves other than the draft is a crap shoot and that's why New England trades down every year to stock pile picks. No coincidence that they have 2 first rounders, 2 second rounders and 2 third rounders. Get as many picks as possible because outside the top 3 - the percentages go down dramatically. And even in that top 3 you will get your occasional bust.

[Thoner7]

Just focusing on the top of the draft:

 

2007 - Anthony Gonzalez, WR, RD1; Tony Ugoh, OT, RD2

 

2008 - traded away first round pick to 49ers.

 

2009 - Donald Brown, RB, RD1

 

2010 - Jerry Hughes, DE, RD1

 

All of these players are underperformers. Gonzalez is injury-prone and has been passed on the depth chart by Collie and Garcon. Ugho was drafted as the LT of the future and was released this year. Donald Brown was a total waste of a pick and has been supplanted on the depth chart by Mike Hart. Jerry Hughes is having a rookie year much like Maybin's 2009 - he is weak at the POA and cannot get on the field (and when he does, he isn't making a difference).

 

Just saying, with all of the Polian talk around here, it's worth bearing in mind that he has his share of misses. Perhaps having the best QB ever to play the game can make up for lots of bad personnel decisions.

 

I agree with you that Polian has dropped the ball as of late – I have thought so for a while. He has ignored his OL too much and it has hurt their running game a lot and even affect their passing game. They have also been bad against the run forever and it has never been corrected, which has hurt them. When you ignore the lines, you lose.

 

But Hughes was out there a lot last night and was generating good pressure – far more than Maybin ever has.

 

Alas, when you have the best QB of all time you should win more than 1 Superbowl.

[Dante]

You're talking about stretches and value diamond in the rough picks and your go-to counterpoints are Terrence Wilkins and Adam Vinateiri?

Wilkins would be about the 4th best Bills return man this decade.

Vinatieri I would say was as much of a "big name" FA as you can possibly have at K - and an overpaid one at that.

Dominic Rhodes was a guy who got carries on a team that won the SB, like the Bucs RB in 2002. Yawn.

Gary Bracket is a nice player. But every team in the league including the Bills has a guy like that who outperformed their draft evaluation.

Bills have never won anything though. Thats the difference. I guess his bargain pickups were/are better.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

Look up in the sky, and you might see the ACTUAL point I was making flying over your head.

 

If you think I'm defending this organization, you're nuts. Ask anyone here who knows my posts (and my tone).

 

Since trading down is moot, the jury is out on Brown (has been #2 on DC behind Addai, nursing injury at the moment), and Hughes is a rook behind Probowl DE's, that leaves Gonzales who is good but injury prone?

 

Over, under, to the left of my head, so brilliantly argued it is incomprehensible to me, sorry I certainly don't grasp any coherent point or argument here… unless you are saying he is not only good he is so good he can afford to spend first round picks on depth.

 

Thanks in advance if you see it fit to better articulate the point to this simpleton...

Edited November 2, 2010 by over 20 years of fanhood

[BuffOrange]

Bills have never won anything though. Thats the difference. I guess his bargain pickups were/are better.

 

Five minutes ago they didn't sign big name FA's and found all of these brilliant late round picks and were spearheaded by Terrence Wilkins and Dominic Rhodes..

Now once that theory is thrown out they're just better because they win and the Bills don't. This is why Schopp is rude to callers - some of you guys deserve it frankly...

 

Peyton freaking Manning - that's the difference.

Edited November 2, 2010 by BuffOrange

[qwksilver]

Just focusing on the top of the draft:

 

2007 - Anthony Gonzalez, WR, RD1; Tony Ugoh, OT, RD2

 

2008 - traded away first round pick to 49ers.

 

2009 - Donald Brown, RB, RD1

 

2010 - Jerry Hughes, DE, RD1

 

All of these players are underperformers. Gonzalez is injury-prone and has been passed on the depth chart by Collie and Garcon. Ugho was drafted as the LT of the future and was released this year. Donald Brown was a total waste of a pick and has been supplanted on the depth chart by Mike Hart. Jerry Hughes is having a rookie year much like Maybin's 2009 - he is weak at the POA and cannot get on the field (and when he does, he isn't making a difference).

 

Just saying, with all of the Polian talk around here, it's worth bearing in mind that he has his share of misses. Perhaps having the best QB ever to play the game can make up for lots of bad personnel decisions.

 

 

The man is due to miss on a few picks every now and then. He has a solid team and can afford to do so. Also let's not forget that those "awful picks" ocurred @ # 28 or higher (just guessing as I didn;t look up the actual draft position of the Colts for the last 4 years.) He didn;t miss like we did @ #'s 10,11 & 12 the last few years.

[Travis]

Coach Tuesday - this is a thread that I've been meaning to post for weeks.

 

I didn't know who they drafted but I knew one thing - they weren't making much of a difference. I did know of Donald Brown, who hasn't done squat.

 

And for all those mentioning Collie and Garcon, their success can be credited to Manning who has been working diligently with them. I'm guessing he could make it work with a lot of receivers.

 

I was just thinking the other day - the Colts have had their franchise, all-time great QB for several years now and you would think by now they would have several guys of note stepping up on Defense but that's not the case at all. They got a great one in Freeney and Mathis seems good but there really aren't many names on that defense. And it seems their offensive line has been in transition for a few years now.

 

I don't know what this proves other than the draft is a crap shoot and that's why New England trades down every year to stock pile picks. No coincidence that they have 2 first rounders, 2 second rounders and 2 third rounders. Get as many picks as possible because outside the top 3 - the percentages go down dramatically. And even in that top 3 you will get your occasional bust.

 

It wasn't a crap shoot when Polian choose Manning over Leaf nor was it when he choose Edge over Ricky (leave my helmut on during interviews) Williams. Those two picks alone were huge critical picks for that franchise.

 

p.s. You need to change your icon to Cain Velasquez

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

At drafting, yes. And also that drafting is overrated.

 

I wish someone in buffalo's org was this overrated at drafting first round talent.

 

1998 1 * Peyton Manning QB Tennessee --> HOF

1999 4 Edgerrin James RB Miami (FL) -->Probowler

2000 28 Rob Morris LB Brigham Young --> 5 year MLB starter

2001 30 Reggie Wayne WR Miami (FL) --> Probowler

2002 11 Dwight Freeney DE Syracuse --> Probowler

2003 24 Dallas Clark TE Iowa --> Probowler

2004 — — No Pick — — [17]

2005 29 Marlin Jackson CB Michigan --> AVERAGE STARTER

2006 30 Joseph Addai RB Louisiana State --> Probowler

2007 32 Anthony Gonzalez WR Ohio State --> AVERAGE STARTER

2008 — — No Pick — — [18]

2009 27 Donald Brown RB Connecticut --> Could be bust TBD

2010 31 Jerry Hughes DE Texas Christian --> TBD

Edited November 2, 2010 by over 20 years of fanhood

[Ray]

Just focusing on the top of the draft:

 

2007 - Anthony Gonzalez, WR, RD1; Tony Ugoh, OT, RD2

 

2008 - traded away first round pick to 49ers.

 

2009 - Donald Brown, RB, RD1

 

2010 - Jerry Hughes, DE, RD1

 

All of these players are underperformers. Gonzalez is injury-prone and has been passed on the depth chart by Collie and Garcon. Ugho was drafted as the LT of the future and was released this year. Donald Brown was a total waste of a pick and has been supplanted on the depth chart by Mike Hart. Jerry Hughes is having a rookie year much like Maybin's 2009 - he is weak at the POA and cannot get on the field (and when he does, he isn't making a difference).

 

Just saying, with all of the Polian talk around here, it's worth bearing in mind that he has his share of misses. Perhaps having the best QB ever to play the game can make up for lots of bad personnel decisions.

The sentiment of the post is correct and you could do the same with the Pats' recent drafts. The point being that the Bills have not drafted well in the 1st rounds recently but neither have a lot of teams and that having high draft picks in no way assures you are picking a good player. There are so many variables with giving 21 year old kids $50M in a 1st round, having them go to an unfamiliar city and try an adjust to something they may never be suited for.

I think the big lesson is that once you have your QB it makes things a lot easier for you and allows for a greater margin of error. I do hear about bashing of the Bills' front office for taking a guy like Hardy but not the Pats for the same round WR like a Chad Jackson or Steelers' like Limas Sweed.

Why root for the number one pick in the draft when it is less than a 50/50 chance of getting a Pro Bowl player. Every front office whiffs....hopefully by the law of averages the Bills do not try and overthink themselves and pick the right player

[Doc]

It wasn't a crap shoot when Polian choose Manning over Leaf nor was it when he choose Edge over Ricky (leave my helmut on during interviews) Williams. Those two picks alone were huge critical picks for that franchise.

 

p.s. You need to change your icon to Cain Velasquez

Manning wasn't a crap shoot, but Edge over Williams was a surprise. Not that picking Williams would have been a bad move, since Indy probably would have been a better place for him than NO at that time.

 

The '00 Colts are like the late 80's to mid 90's Bills. Except that those SB Bills team didn't play in the cap era and didn't face a team as weak as the Bears in the SB. And it's too bad that a QB prospect like Manning (probably) isn't coming out in 2011.

[Travis]

The sentiment of the post is correct and you could do the same with the Pats' recent drafts. The point being that the Bills have not drafted well in the 1st rounds recently but neither have a lot of teams and that having high draft picks in no way assures you are picking a good player. There are so many variables with giving 21 year old kids $50M in a 1st round, having them go to an unfamiliar city and try an adjust to something they may never be suited for.

I think the big lesson is that once you have your QB it makes things a lot easier for you and allows for a greater margin of error. I do hear about bashing of the Bills' front office for taking a guy like Hardy but not the Pats for the same round WR like a Chad Jackson or Steelers' like Limas Sweed.

Why root for the number one pick in the draft when it is less than a 50/50 chance of getting a Pro Bowl player. Every front office whiffs....hopefully by the law of averages the Bills do not try and overthink themselves and pick the right player

 

I read an article within the last month or two on ESPN that broke down specifically the AFC East drafts for the past ~4 or 5 years and it was horrible. Not just us, but everybody's, they went through who was drafted/round/ if still on the roster and I was shocked. I wish I could find it.

 

Manning wasn't a crap shoot, but Edge over Williams was a surprise. Not that picking Williams would have been a bad move, since Indy probably would have been a better place for him than NO at that time.

 

The '00 Colts are like the late 80's to mid 90's Bills. Except that those SB Bills team didn't play in the cap era and didn't face a team as weak as the Bears in the SB. And it's too bad that a QB prospect like Manning (probably) isn't coming out in 2011.

 

 

When it was time to draft Manning or Leaf, the general consensus at the time was split. There were a ton of people enamored with Leaf and his gun slinging ways, confidence etc…

and the knock on Manning was he could never beat Florida, it wasn’t 80/20 in favor of Manning, it was pretty darn close to 50-50.

[Doc]

When it was time to draft Manning or Leaf, the general consensus at the time was split. There were a ton of people enamored with Leaf and his gun slinging ways, confidence etc…

and the knock on Manning was he could never beat Florida, it wasn’t 80/20 in favor of Manning, it was pretty darn close to 50-50.

Maybe not 80-20, but closer to that than 50-50. Manning's consistency at UT (despite his struggles against Florida) and his pedigree made him the clear favorite, even though some (like Butler) liked Leaf better. I'd say it was 80-20 in favor of Williams over Edge.

[Ramius]

I agree with you that Polian has dropped the ball as of late – I have thought so for a while. He has ignored his OL too much and it has hurt their running game a lot and even affect their passing game. They have also been bad against the run forever and it has never been corrected, which has hurt them. When you ignore the lines, you lose.

 

But Hughes was out there a lot last night and was generating good pressure – far more than Maybin ever has.

 

Alas, when you have the best QB of all time you should win more than 1 Superbowl.

 

This is nothing new. Take a look at polian's draft history. No matter where he goes, Polian spends lots of 1st rounders on skill players.

[buffaloaggie]

Just focusing on the top of the draft:

 

2007 - Anthony Gonzalez, WR, RD1; Tony Ugoh, OT, RD2

 

2008 - traded away first round pick to 49ers.

 

2009 - Donald Brown, RB, RD1

 

2010 - Jerry Hughes, DE, RD1

 

All of these players are underperformers. Gonzalez is injury-prone and has been passed on the depth chart by Collie and Garcon. Ugho was drafted as the LT of the future and was released this year. Donald Brown was a total waste of a pick and has been supplanted on the depth chart by Mike Hart. Jerry Hughes is having a rookie year much like Maybin's 2009 - he is weak at the POA and cannot get on the field (and when he does, he isn't making a difference).

 

Just saying, with all of the Polian talk around here, it's worth bearing in mind that he has his share of misses. Perhaps having the best QB ever to play the game can make up for lots of bad personnel decisions.

Why limit it to the top of the draft? Polian has drafted Pat Angerer, Austin Collie, Jacob Tamme, Pierre Garcon, Mike Hart and Clint Session in the past four years also. Donald Brown is just coming back from injury. He has not been supplanted on the depth chart. Polian knows where he needs to draft a player, that's why he gets value late in the draft.

[BreezeMafia]

For as good of drafts that Polian participated in from 1985 through 1988, he had his share of stinkers as well. 1990 was marginal at best with only Glen Parker becoming a true solid player. 1991 marginal at best as well with Henry Jones. Every GM will have their share of misses. But nothing comes close to how bad Marv missed for the Bills in 2006 and 2007

[Realist]

 

Peyton freaking Manning - that's the difference.

 

This is the one and only reason why the Colts win consistently. If you put an average to above average QB in there, the Colts are going nowhere but middle of the road.

[Dante]

Five minutes ago they didn't sign big name FA's and found all of these brilliant late round picks and were spearheaded by Terrence Wilkins and Dominic Rhodes..

Now once that theory is thrown out they're just better because they win and the Bills don't. This is why Schopp is rude to callers - some of you guys deserve it frankly...

 

Peyton freaking Manning - that's the difference.

Peyton on his own isn't the difference. Peyton combined with Polian is! Thats my point. Ok, you don't like the guys that were used as examples fine. But it takes more than a great qb to win. Where Polian comes in is that he would have put together and maintained a decent to great Oline to give any qb a chance. Something that hasn't been done here in a while.