Mr. Wilson And Jerry Jones

[Mr. WEO]

The basic point is that "desire to win" and a quarter won't even get you a cup of coffee. I find it funny that more than a few people laud Jones for his "desire to win" in the face of spending massive amounts of money, yet still failing. The problem with him is his ego is the problem since he thinks he can do it himself. Wilson's problem is finding the right men to run things (and yes, I know he fired Polian. Let it rest). There's a difference. Same goes for Snyder.

"Still failing"? The previous 5 seasons have been winning records and include 3 playoff appearances. If that's "failue in your book, how would you decribe the Bills last 5 years?

 

His QB is not a high priced FA, nor are his best RB and WR. That's a talented team, no question. His coach sucks, plain and simple. Jones can't bring himself to pull the trigger--hardly the imperial owner you are painting him as.

 

There is a difference: Jones is trying to maintain a winning team (he has a huge nut to cover every month now) whereas Ralph isn't even bothering to try.

 

He's very old, he's in the HOF and he correctly assumes the locals are going to forever pad his pockets.

[T master]

And who has been in the playoffs more than any other team over the last decade ?? The Pats & Colts they don't keep huge contract players to long they deal them to develop new talent

(Seymor , Moss , Vrable -- James , Harrison) If i would want to watch a team and take notes it sure ain't gonna be Jerra -- his freakin ego (& head) is as big as his bank roll .

 

Although it does take money to build a good team Dallas & Washington are not the prototypical teams to watch when taking notes that's for sure !! If you want to see how to get more bang for your buck watch Indy & N.E. -- If you want to see how to blow money & still have sub par teams watch Jerra & Snyder !!!

[Mr. WEO]

And who has been in the playoffs more than any other team over the last decade ?? The Pats & Colts they don't keep huge contract players to long they deal them to develop new talent

(Seymor , Moss , Vrable -- James , Harrison) If i would want to watch a team and take notes it sure ain't gonna be Jerra -- his freakin ego (& head) is as big as his bank roll .

 

Although it does take money to build a good team Dallas & Washington are not the prototypical teams to watch when taking notes that's for sure !! If you want to see how to get more bang for your buck watch Indy & N.E. -- If you want to see how to blow money & still have sub par teams watch Jerra & Snyder !!!

I won't argue that the Pats and the Colts are better than Dallas. But Ralph isn't taking any notes. He is getting the most bang for his buck right now, why would he emulate any other program?

 

By the way, the Colts "kept huge contract players" James and Harrison for a total of 20 years!

[filthymcnasty08]

Add the Ravens and Steelers to the list of teams to model yourself after.

 

I would kill for either F.O.

[JohnC]

Jones is welcome to draft Mallet. I've heard more bad about the kid than good.

 

PTR

 

What are you referring to? Not smart enough? Not mature enough? Bad dude? Just very curious.

Edited November 2, 2010 by JohnC

[Spiderweb]

As usual you missed the basic point. Ralph Wilson is a failure in his own right. He doesn't need to be compared to anyone else because he has his own inimitable way of failing.

 

Most people would agree that the Cowboys are underachieving, to put it mildly.. Most people would also agree that the Bills are not underachieving. They are simply a bad team.

 

It always begins as "underachieving" until (by then it's usually too late) it's realized the team is bad. The Cowboys simply are not the quality team many thought they were. As bad as the Bills? probably not, but even then they might not be that far apart in many ways. Another case of a meddling idiot owner, poor HC, and so on down throughout the team.

[JohnC]

Wilson's problem is finding the right men to run things (and yes, I know he fired Polian. Let it rest). There's a difference. Same goes for Snyder.

 

There is a very simple explanation as to why it is so difficult for him to hire the right people to run his failed organization. He is the one doing the hiring. When you don't know what you are doing your decisions are most likely not to work out.

[stony]

What are you referring to? Not smart enough? Not mature enough? Bad dude? Just very curious.

 

Yes, yes, and yes. No, no, and no. Just depends on who you ask.

 

In 2009, he was arrested at 3:47am for public intoxication as a 20yr old. Some people will say the starting QB at an SEC school should lead by example, others (myself included) will say "and your point is, he's in college."

 

Some question his accuracy on simple, short throws. He's admitted that he needs to develop more touch on passes underneath because defenses have keyed on taking the vertical passing game away from him. Some will say this reminds them of JP Losman who could throw it a mile, but not hit a guy on a simple slant pass. Others will say this is something good coaching can easily correct.

 

For a good laugh, check out his mug shot though. Funny stuff.

[JohnC]

It always begins as "underachieving" until (by then it's usually too late) it's realized the team is bad. The Cowboys simply are not the quality team many thought they were. As bad as the Bills? probably not, but even then they might not be that far apart in many ways. Another case of a meddling idiot owner, poor HC, and so on down throughout the team.

 

There are very few people who would say that the Cowboys lack talent. There is no doubt that they are a flawed team. Their OL is mediocre at best. What is apparent to most people who watch them is the lack of discipline on the team. Wade Phillips is not the type of coach who commands discipline.

 

With respect to the talent level the Bills are very distant from the Cowboys. Almost every NFL analyst had the Bills ranked near the bottom before the season even started. Their prognostications easily came to fruition. The Cowboys do have a nucleoius of good players to quickly turn it around. The Bills are far from having a critical mass of good players to turn it around in the forseeable future.

 

I am not giving the owner of the Cowboys a free pass. He, more than anyone else, is accountable for the chaotic state of affairs in Texas. What I do know for sure is that he is more driven to succeed and turn things around than the passive owner of the terrible Bills.

[Doc]

"Still failing"? The previous 5 seasons have been winning records and include 3 playoff appearances. If that's "failue in your book, how would you decribe the Bills last 5 years?

 

His QB is not a high priced FA, nor are his best RB and WR. That's a talented team, no question. His coach sucks, plain and simple. Jones can't bring himself to pull the trigger--hardly the imperial owner you are painting him as.

 

There is a difference: Jones is trying to maintain a winning team (he has a huge nut to cover every month now) whereas Ralph isn't even bothering to try.

 

He's very old, he's in the HOF and he correctly assumes the locals are going to forever pad his pockets.

With the money the Cowboys make and spend, not to mention the exposure, market and other advantages they have (eg. no state income taxes), AND the fact that his 2006 CBA was set-up to favor big market teams, winning 1 playoff game over the past 14 years is failing. And a lot has to do with the fact that HE runs the team, because he thinks he can run it, since he got lucky with the Herschel Walker deal and won a SB without JJ. At least Wilson admitted his mistake with Jauron and fired him mid-season, whereas Jones' ego can't bring himself to admit he made a mistake, as is the case with trading for and keeping Roy Williams.

 

The Bills have failed for a decade, there is no arguing that. But to say it's because the owner doesn't "want to win" or because he's intentionally trying to screw the fans is ludicrous. We've gone over this ad nauseum. All it eventually comes down to is that he fired Polian and/or hasn't spent big money on a GM or coach. Yet here we have Jones who does, and still struggles. Moverover the Bills tried to get a big name this past off-season and were rebuffed.

 

As for Jones' "nut," his investment in the team ($93M) was easily paid-off within the first decade of owning it. And no one told him he had to build a $1B stadium, $325M (at least) of which was paid for by the taxpayers, while a good chunk of the rest is being paid for by fans in the form of the highest PSL's, tickets, concessions, and parking in the league, as well as corporations (yet still no naming rights sold. Hmmm). You make it sound like he's footing the bill for everything and keeping ticket prices low, or even affordable for the average fan while Ralph is doing the opposite.

[JohnC]

Yes, yes, and yes. No, no, and no. Just depends on who you ask.

 

That's helpful. LOL

 

In 2009, he was arrested at 3:47am for public intoxication as a 20yr old. Some people will say the starting QB at an SEC school should lead by example, others (myself included) will say "and your point is, he's in college."

 

I agree with you. I'm not going to condemn a college kid for acting like a college kid. If he doesn't learn from his mistake then that is another matter.

 

Some question his accuracy on simple, short throws. He's admitted that he needs to develop more touch on passes underneath because defenses have keyed on taking the vertical passing game away from him. Some will say this reminds them of JP Losman who could throw it a mile, but not hit a guy on a simple slant pass. Others will say this is something good coaching can easily correct.

 

Do you trust our scouting department to make the right call? Supposedly, Nix's specialty is the SEC. I hope his connections can get some sound advice on him.

Edited November 2, 2010 by JohnC

[John from Riverside]

There is none. Bill is the only board member clinging to this asinine conspiracy theory.

 

In reality, Spiller was taken by Nix and co because he was the best player available, and a serious offensive threat/playmaker.

 

Bill I just dont understand why it is so hard to accept that Spiller was brought in because he was the right choice.

 

What were the things that Nix said.....he said this team needed playmakers and that he was looking for guys that actually did it in College (I am sure that was a knock against Maybin)

 

So he basically went out and did just what he said. Once Spiller starts getting more carries this is pick is gonna look a lot better.

 

To me the big difference between the two owners is one is not afraid to make moves and the other one is.

[stony]

That's helpful. LOL

 

 

 

I agree with you. I'm not going to condemn a college kid for acting like a college kid. If he doesn't learn from his mistake then that is another matter.

 

 

 

Do you trust our scouting department to make the right call? Supposedly, Nix's specialty is the SEC. I hope his connections can get some sound advice on him.

 

I do for the most part. We're one draft into the Nix regime, and despite those who wish to bash this past draft through 8 weeks, I think talent evaluation should be one of his strengths given his past time as a scout. Personally, I'm in the draft Luck if available and if not, go heavy on D. I just don't think Mallet has the mobility to survive in Buffalo, but, with that said, I don't hate on Mallet like some based on heresy.

[Doc]

Bill I just dont understand why it is so hard to accept that Spiller was brought in because he was the right choice.

 

What were the things that Nix said.....he said this team needed playmakers and that he was looking for guys that actually did it in College (I am sure that was a knock against Maybin)

 

So he basically went out and did just what he said. Once Spiller starts getting more carries this is pick is gonna look a lot better.

 

To me the big difference between the two owners is one is not afraid to make moves and the other one is.

Fezmid made a good point that if Spiller was a Ralph pick, he'd be playing a LOT more, and probably made the starter going into the season.

[JohnC]

I do for the most part. We're one draft into the Nix regime, and despite those who wish to bash this past draft through 8 weeks, I think talent evaluation should be one of his strengths given his past time as a scout. Personally, I'm in the draft Luck if available and if not, go heavy on D. I just don't think Mallet has the mobility to survive in Buffalo, but, with that said, I don't hate on Mallet like some based on heresy.

 

If you want to hear an interesting discussion of the qb prospects go to today's WGR55 audio fault for the Simon/Gabriel interview. Gabriel believes that Luck is the best prospect by far. His views on Mallet are more cautionary. He also discusses Locker and Newton. Very interesting discussion.

[SanJosePete]

As usual you missed the basic point. Ralph Wilson is a failure in his own right. He doesn't need to be compared to anyone else because he has his own inimitable way of failing.

 

Most people would agree that the Cowboys are underachieving, to put it mildly.. Most people would also agree that the Bills are not underachieving. They are simply a bad team.

 

Funny to see the season get to the point where we are asking ourselves the following questions?

Would you rather be like the Bills and at least be competitive with an 0-6 record?

Would you rather be like the Cowboys and underachieving with much better talent and an 0-7 record?

 

Wilson's real legacy will be what happens to the team after he kicks the bucket.

[Mr. WEO]

With the money the Cowboys make and spend, not to mention the exposure, market and other advantages they have (eg. no state income taxes), AND the fact that his 2006 CBA was set-up to favor big market teams, winning 1 playoff game over the past 14 years is failing. And a lot has to do with the fact that HE runs the team, because he thinks he can run it, since he got lucky with the Herschel Walker deal and won a SB without JJ. At least Wilson admitted his mistake with Jauron and fired him mid-season, whereas Jones' ego can't bring himself to admit he made a mistake, as is the case with trading for and keeping Roy Williams.

 

The Bills have failed for a decade, there is no arguing that. But to say it's because the owner doesn't "want to win" or because he's intentionally trying to screw the fans is ludicrous. We've gone over this ad nauseum. All it eventually comes down to is that he fired Polian and/or hasn't spent big money on a GM or coach. Yet here we have Jones who does, and still struggles. Moverover the Bills tried to get a big name this past off-season and were rebuffed.

 

As for Jones' "nut," his investment in the team ($93M) was easily paid-off within the first decade of owning it. And no one told him he had to build a $1B stadium, $325M (at least) of which was paid for by the taxpayers, while a good chunk of the rest is being paid for by fans in the form of the highest PSL's, tickets, concessions, and parking in the league, as well as corporations (yet still no naming rights sold. Hmmm). You make it sound like he's footing the bill for everything and keeping ticket prices low, or even affordable for the average fan while Ralph is doing the opposite.

The 2006 CBA favored the "big market teams"? By making them cough up 200 million for the low revenue teams? By allowing the low budget teams NOT to spend 59.5% o their revenue on players if they didn't feel like it? Look at all the "big market" SB winners since that CBA!

 

This isn't MLB, where the Yankees can simply overwhelm a player with money and own him. You obviously imagine that it is. And with JJ running the Cowboys, they have won 3 SBs.

 

No, he didn't have to build that ridiculous stadium, but I doubt, facing a 650 million dollar debt, it eases his mind to know that it's not 1 billion. He still has to pay the money back. The PSL's haven't paid the debt. The interest alone must be staggering. SO he feels the pressure to produce a winner on the field and, generally, despite your imagination, he has done so.

 

Ralph has no such worries--in fact, he could probably give away 20% of the gate and still make dollar 1. Nearly all of his costs are covered by the free money the League hands him each year from the TV contracts negotiated by his colleagues on his behalf (hint, the TV execs who shell out that money don't include Bills viewership in the calculations).

 

Jones can't bring himself to admit he made a mistake on a coach?? Well, what about his much ballyhooed (here) mea culpa regarding Chan Gailey? And Ralph doesn't get credit for firing Jauron "mid-season". You are being very disngenuous (and I know why) here. You are leaving out the part where, against all sanity, Ralph renewed DJ's contract the prior season after a 5-0 start when you and Ralph (that's why!) were convinced Jauron would be so expensive by that season's end that he had to be resigned immediately. It was a bald-faced money saving move, pure and simple. It was ridiculed uniformly (except by you) by the end of the season. It was so poor of a decision that the FO refused to admit they had done so until the end of the season.

 

 

Why do you think the Bills were rebuffed? Is it because of...the state income tax? hahahahaha.

[gobillsinytown]

As much as I hate to say it, but the Cowboys don't compare to the Bills....Jones expects to win and goes after it. As can be seen in their pursuit of quality personnel. The results may not show it this year, but at least they've been in the conversation. Wilson says he wants to win then allows 10+ years of questionable decisions to materialize.

 

What converstation? ESPN? Why should that matter? If Wade Phillips and Jason Garrett are considered "quality personell", they've got a long way to go.

I'm not defending Wilson, because with the team's track record for the last 10 years, it can't be defended. But neither can anyone defend Jones' record. which has been less than stellar. And to make things even more interesting, Jerry now has a huge bank note to pay off. The cost of building their new stadium was over 1 billion, with a significant amount of that financed. So the days of unlimited budgets for the Cowboys organization are over.

[JohnC]

Wilson's real legacy will be what happens to the team after he kicks the bucket.

 

That's because a large percentage of his half century of ownership should be forgotten.

[Big Turk]

Jerry Jones went to meet with Ralph and he said:

 

"You know Mr. Wilson...you and I, we're not so different after all..." just like Dr. Evil did with Austin Powers...hahahaha