Time for NFL to ban Time out just before Kick!

[Alphadawg7]

Some kickers prefer the warmup. Also, I think simply for rhythm kickers will atleast put a foot on it either way. Once they start approaching I think you are getting a kick. I'm sure most of the time they hear the whistle and see the refs but kick anyway.

 

I would guess (again just guessing based on what I see as there is no official stat on this) that probably some where near 80% of the kicks that happen after the TO is called are simply for this very thing you just said. Every time I see a kicker interviewed about it, they all say the same thing...that they kicked the first one anyway to get a feel for the wind and a warm up kick in even after the TO was called.

 

I have even seen one kicker who said that its a decided on plan prior to lining up...that if a timeout is called just before the snap to go ahead with the kick for practice and wind conditions.

 

In all honesty, Haley was pretty stupid for doing that on the kick Lindell did in terms of the situation. It was a very difficult kick in windy conditions, he already has a good chance of missing it from that far...you dont want to let him generally get a free kick to judge the wind when he can very well miss the first one. So a little surprised he took that risk...it happened to work out, but there are times where this TO tactic is a safer move and times when its a dangerous move.

[Fan in San Diego]

I would guess (again just guessing based on what I see as there is no official stat on this) that probably some where near 80% of the kicks that happen after the TO is called are simply for this very thing you just said. Every time I see a kicker interviewed about it, they all say the same thing...that they kicked the first one anyway to get a feel for the wind and a warm up kick in even after the TO was called.

 

I have even seen one kicker who said that its a decided on plan prior to lining up...that if a timeout is called just before the snap to go ahead with the kick for practice and wind conditions.

 

In all honesty, Haley was pretty stupid for doing that on the kick Lindell did in terms of the situation. It was a very difficult kick in windy conditions, he already has a good chance of missing it from that far...you dont want to let him generally get a free kick to judge the wind when he can very well miss the first one. So a little surprised he took that risk...it happened to work out, but there are times where this TO tactic is a safer move and times when its a dangerous move.

 

Any stats on how often the kicker misses the second kick?

[NoSaint]

I'm actually on your side. I was mainly playing devils advocate. I think it is a stupid use of a time out which, if anything, gives the Kicker a better chance.

 

I'd rather the coaches just not do it as it is a useless tactic that only serves to slow down the game.

 

I agree on uselessness but on the time issue not so much.

 

If it had any degree of legitimacey you would see it with more then just sudden death/3 seconds left in the 4th. If it was keeping points off the board it would be a better use then 90% of the timeouts wasted in a game.

 

As for slowing the game down - it'll happen once, maybe twice for the season for each team. I can deal with an extra 30 seconds a couple times a year.

[Chef Jim]

I'm actually on your side. I was mainly playing devils advocate. I think it is a stupid use of a time out which, if anything, gives the Kicker a better chance.

 

I'd rather the coaches just not do it as it is a useless tactic that only serves to slow down the game.

 

I'd rather a d-lineman kick the long snapper in the nuts right before he snaps the ball. That would probably have a more positive affect and much more entertaining as well.

[NoSaint]

Any stats on how often the kicker misses the second kick?

 

I would imagine very rarely or it would be worth doing in the second quarter, or with 5 mins left in the game if it really did keep points off the board.

[Peace]

Wahmbulance drivers: What would the new rule be?

 

"Coaches can't call timeouts before field goal attempts." Stupid. What if the coach sees a screwed up formation or too many men on the field. He can call a TO any other time for that but not on a FG?

 

"Coaches can't call timeout under 10 seconds." Again, dumb. How can a coach not be allowed to call a timeout late in the game. That is a critical part of the game for a coach.

 

"Coaches can't call a timeout within two seconds of a field goal snap." How the hell would anyone know when the snap was going to happen to know if the TO was legit.

 

"Coaches can't call timeout if the FG will allow the other team to take the lead." Now we're just into the realm of asinine.

 

Face it wahmbulancers, you're just sore because it's the Bills.

Edited November 1, 2010 by Peace

[Fezmid]

Face it wahmbulancers, you're just sore because it's the Bills.

Believe it or not, it's not just Bills fans who think it's lame to allow coaches to call timeouts "before" the FG attempt (and frankly, by the time the ref blows the whistle the play is usually already over). Most fans I've talked to seem to think ti's stupid as well.

[NoSaint]

Believe it or not, it's not just Bills fans who think it's lame to allow coaches to call timeouts "before" the FG attempt (and frankly, by the time the ref blows the whistle the play is usually already over). Most fans I've talked to seem to think ti's stupid as well.

 

By the time they blow the whistle and by the time you realize what's happening on tv are two very different things in this case.

[Mr. WEO]

Did you not read what I said?

 

I've said a number of times in the past (twice in this thread) that it's a stupid tactic no matter the outcome. It's within the rules, so I can live with the outcome, but it doesn't mean I have to like it.

 

This is just like a hitter in baseball dropping down a bunt in the 8th inning of a no-hitter. It's within the rules, but it's a silly, chickensh*t way to break up the no-hitter.

 

Breaking up a no hitter with a bunt is not going to alter the outcome of the game--it's late and your getting shut out. Inappropriate analogy.

 

 

I'm actually on your side. I was mainly playing devils advocate. I think it is a stupid use of a time out which, if anything, gives the Kicker a better chance.

 

I'd rather the coaches just not do it as it is a useless tactic that only serves to slow down the game.

 

The KC staff/team/fans would disagree. As we all would if the roles were reversed. As each team is given 3 TOs in the half, taking one before a kick adds no more time to the game than any other TO.

 

On and on it goes!

[Bangarang]

I have no problem with calling a timeout to try and ice a kicker. Especially since we used it to our advantage in overtime.

[bull7734]

nobody has a problem with a time out to ice the kicker, it has to do with the timomg of it, if a team wants to wait to the last second that is fine just call the time out from the field, i have always disliked this new rule, i am frustrated about the loss but they were several other areas where we should have made the play,if i were trying to be sour about the bills losing, i would mention the fact that the ref was standing next to haley waiting for the time out and chan gailey had to run to get the timeout, just a note chan did not do it the same way he called the timeout well before the snap not a millisecond before

[DrDawkinstein]

Im not a fan of the way the coaches are doing it, but I don't see any way to actually "ban" it or even change the rule to prevent/deter it.

 

You have to allow teams the ability to call TO right up to the snap, in case they have too many/few players on the field, or are caught in a bad formation.

[ExiledInIllinois]

Wahmbulance drivers: What would the new rule be?

 

"Coaches can't call timeouts before field goal attempts." Stupid. What if the coach sees a screwed up formation or too many men on the field. He can call a TO any other time for that but not on a FG?

 

"Coaches can't call timeout under 10 seconds." Again, dumb. How can a coach not be allowed to call a timeout late in the game. That is a critical part of the game for a coach.

 

"Coaches can't call a timeout within two seconds of a field goal snap." How the hell would anyone know when the snap was going to happen to know if the TO was legit.

 

"Coaches can't call timeout if the FG will allow the other team to take the lead." Now we're just into the realm of asinine.

 

Face it wahmbulancers, you're just sore because it's the Bills.

 

 

No. The rule would be just like it was years ago. No "post dating" the timeout... The coach would have to have a player get the attention of the ref. More power SHOULD NOT be in the coach's hands... Give it back to the players.

 

So how does the offense stop the play AFTER timeout has been called.

 

They see the timeout being called. The snap isn't called because the time out would have been signaled or they would have seen the opposing player call it. And you don't see it in baseball. It really pisses the pitcher when the batter steps out (of the B'sBox) too late and the pitcher has to finish the null pitch. Some umps DON'T grant the TO... That is how it should be in football.

 

It seems the people most offended by this are the ones that don't understand what's happening.

 

The TO is presnap.

 

The coach isn't telling the ref to blow the whistle at the snap. They are saying I will be calling a TO soon, so have your whistle ready. This warning system happens a lot - like a surprise onside kick or other trick play. Often times the refs are warned pre game, or shortly before there occurrence to make sure they are properly officiated. Same thing.

 

I understand... That is why I called it "post dating" the TO. The TO should be called in real time, no "warning." And ... By the players. The less power (actual game decisions right to the ref) the coach has is better. The coach coaches... The players execute... Executing is also calling TO's. The game would be better beacuse THE PLAYERS play the game... Again, the coach "coaches." Do they go right to the coach about a penalty? Maybe to explain. They shouldn't give the coach the power of actual choice (acceptance directly to the ref), it should be relayed to the player captain. Does the coach go out for the coin-toss... Of course not!

 

nobody has a problem with a time out to ice the kicker, it has to do with the timomg of it, if a team wants to wait to the last second that is fine just call the time out from the field, i have always disliked this new rule, i am frustrated about the loss but they were several other areas where we should have made the play,if i were trying to be sour about the bills losing, i would mention the fact that the ref was standing next to haley waiting for the time out and chan gailey had to run to get the timeout, just a note chan did not do it the same way he called the timeout well before the snap not a millisecond before

 

+1

 

Im not a fan of the way the coaches are doing it, but I don't see any way to actually "ban" it or even change the rule to prevent/deter it.

 

You have to allow teams the ability to call TO right up to the snap, in case they have too many/few players on the field, or are caught in a bad formation.

 

Why not go back to the old way... This is a power grab by the coaches... Let the players do what they always were doing. Why did they change to this newer rule in the first place? What is wrong with the way they were doing it for the first 70 or so years of the league?

[stevestojan]

I honestly can't believe some of you actually think the coach can call the time out after the snap. It takes good timing and really some luck to nail it the second before the snap. That said, the only part of this "rule" I don't like is coaches being able to call a timeout at all. The players should have to make that decision and call, IMO.

[NoSaint]

No. The rule would be just like it was years ago. No "post dating" the timeout... The coach would have to have a player get the attention of the ref. More power SHOULD NOT be in the coach's hands... Give it back to the players.

 

 

 

They see the timeout being called. The snap isn't called because the time out would have been signaled or they would have seen the opposing player call it. And you don't see it in baseball. It really pisses the pitcher when the batter steps out (of the B'sBox) too late and the pitcher has to finish the null pitch. Some umps DON'T grant the TO... That is how it should be in football.

 

 

 

I understand... That is why I called it "post dating" the TO. The TO should be called in real time, no "warning." And ... By the players. The less power (actual game decisions right to the ref) the coach has is better. The coach coaches... The players execute... Executing is also calling TO's. The game would be better beacuse THE PLAYERS play the game... Again, the coach "coaches." Do they go right to the coach about a penalty? Maybe to explain. They shouldn't give the coach the power of actual choice (acceptance directly to the ref), it should be relayed to the player captain. Does the coach go out for the coin-toss... Of course not!

 

 

 

+1

 

 

 

Why not go back to the old way... This is a power grab by the coaches... Let the players do what they always were doing. Why did they change to this newer rule in the first place? What is wrong with the way they were doing it for the first 70 or so years of the league?

 

 

I guess I just don't see the same sanctity in a timeout. Not saying your wrong, but where do you draw the line on the player vs coach line -- what about coaches calling challenges? Did these events coincide (coach timeouts and implementation of challenges)? Just thinking out loud.

Edited November 2, 2010 by NoSaint

[thurst44]

If its in the rules its in the rules. Do I like the rule ...no. But a good kicker would make that second kick just like the first.

 

Yes, you're right. Lindell should be faulted for hitting the crossbar on a 53-yard field goal after making one; a "good" kicker would. Holy cow, we're ridiculous.

[bartshan-83]

The KC staff/team/fans would disagree. As we all would if the roles were reversed. As each team is given 3 TOs in the half, taking one before a kick adds no more time to the game than any other TO.

 

On and on it goes!

I'm not going to argue because obviously coaches think it does something enough to want to keep doing it game after game. And I spoke poorly...I didn't mean slows down the game, I meant delays the outcome.

 

But that doesn't change the fact that it has no correlation to the kicker's success whatsoever.

 

If every time you and I flipped a coin to decide something, I would catch the first flip in the air and yell "STOP! Let's do it again!" it doesn't mean that my "method" was successful if I win the second flip.

 

On Sunday, luck smiled on Todd Haley and the Chiefs. But to call it a successful strategy, or a strategy at all is silly. It's a stupid superstitious practice that for some reason coaches have collectively latched onto. I and personally think it makes them look like idiots as they gallop down the sideline and then creep all close to the ref to make sure they can unleash their final "ace in the hole."

 

Bunch of girls. Just let the players line up and play out the final play of the game like men. No need for your predictably cliche "icing" after which you can claim genius if it works and shrug your shoulders if it doesn't.

Edited November 2, 2010 by bartshan-83