thebug Posted October 29, 2010 Posted October 29, 2010 Teach your children that sometimes it's ok to say you, I'm not doing that. This is really sad and should not have happened. RIP young man.
LongLiveRalph Posted October 29, 2010 Posted October 29, 2010 Clearly, by his tweet BEFORE practice where he mentioned "Gusts of wind up to 60mph well today will be fun at work...Guess I've lived long enough" it was obvious that he knew there was a danger. However, he also seems to know that he is in a very replaceable position, and would likely get fired for refusing to do his job. What a difference 10 years makes. At 20, I'm sure I would've been poor enough to need that $8.50/hour and dumb enough to get up on that lift. At 30, I would've told the coach, AD, and anyone else to go stick that camera up their ass. Can anybody familiar with college football coaching tell me if these practice videotapes are even worth the trouble, and if anybody other than the lowest-level assistant coaches actually watch them? A scrimmage, I can see, record it. New offensive plays, 11-v-11, I can see why you'd record it. Offensive line drills and backup QB's throwing to redshirt WR's? What's the point?
Acantha Posted October 30, 2010 Posted October 30, 2010 Can anybody familiar with college football coaching tell me if these practice videotapes are even worth the trouble, and if anybody other than the lowest-level assistant coaches actually watch them? A scrimmage, I can see, record it. New offensive plays, 11-v-11, I can see why you'd record it. Offensive line drills and backup QB's throwing to redshirt WR's? What's the point? The players watch them. So when your coach is telling you you're rounding off your routes, or always taking the wrong angles on a tackle, they can see it watch it themselves from an outside perspective. I'm sure different colleges do different things with the tapes, and yes I think they are a pretty important tool. But not having it for one day wouldn't have been an issue at all. Thing is, it didn't say anyone forced him to go up the that thing. There's just as good of a chance that he just assumed since practice was on and it was his job to film it, he would do it.
boyst Posted October 30, 2010 Author Posted October 30, 2010 Thing is, it didn't say anyone forced him to go up the that thing. Interesting. Would he have had to been told up? Would he have been expected to do his job daily? I have seen stories leave out some great parts but I wonder if there was a comment made to him or he made a comment to anyone. We'll never know, I am sure. I hope if he has siblings that ND pays their tuition to ND or any other school they attend.
Chilly Posted October 30, 2010 Posted October 30, 2010 (edited) How can anyones head be so fabulously dense? Did I say he caused the wind? Since he wrote "Holy f**k this is terifying" I would say the wind was already blowing, and he was aware his life was in danger, as he was posting.You do as you please, if I feel I am in a life threating situation I am going to give 100% attention to my surroundings, rather then texting about it. I think you missed my point. Edited October 30, 2010 by BlueFire
ExiledInIllinois Posted October 30, 2010 Posted October 30, 2010 I agree with you in general terms. Ultimately, some authority should have known that he always goes up there and stop him. I'm just thinking that maybe the head coach, busy with the team, just wasn't thinking about something as relatively mundane and in the background as the kid filming practice. I'm not trying to be a dick but you would think that the kid would have gone up to the coach and said he felt nervous about going up there. I know I would be. Now if the kid did approach the coaching staff about it and they ordered him up there then that really is bad. I guess either way the school is going to be held accountable I'm sure. You don't think they know those types of personalities (like the one you describe yourself)? Of course they do. You wouldn't even be sniffing a camera in calm winds. Go to the coach? They have a way of weeding those types of personalites out long before there is ever a safety problem. Get what I am saying?
Chef Jim Posted October 30, 2010 Posted October 30, 2010 Half of me is in that minority, too. Although it was stupid of him to go up there in the first place, I can empathize with the kid wanting to keep his job. Odds are he would have been fired if he had told his d-bag boss to !@#$ off. I wouls assume anyone who told their boss to !@#$ off would be fired regardless of the situation.
ExiledInIllinois Posted October 30, 2010 Posted October 30, 2010 I wouls assume anyone who told their boss to !@#$ off would be fired regardless of the situation. Yes. Then the person would have to grieve it if they felt they were wrong. Anyway... Like I said, people like that (strongly opinionated) would have been weeded out long before the safety issue. People that would speak up wouldn't even be given the opportunity to sniff a camera from the get go. I take that is not what they want. They want "soldiers" that will follow their every order. Even outside bad weather/safety... They have to be able to trust that the tape doesn't fall into the opposing teams hands. So yes... This kid fit the bill perfectly!
4BillsintheBurgh Posted October 30, 2010 Posted October 30, 2010 The tower had to be swinging around in the wind considering he was tweeting about it so long before the tower fell. It's too bad someone didn't see that and get the kid down. Very sad the kid had to give his life for something so insignificant. RIP.
LeviF Posted October 30, 2010 Posted October 30, 2010 I wouls assume anyone who told their boss to !@#$ off would be fired regardless of the situation. Ha, well I didn't mean them literally saying, "!@#$ off." That's why there weren't quotation marks
spartacus Posted October 31, 2010 Posted October 31, 2010 The coach and AD should both be fired immediately. Reckless disregard for human life having anyone 50 ft in the air during hurricane force winds -which had blowing all week not to mention he was carrying out the highly critical task of filming the scout team QB throw to red shirt WRs
ExiledInIllinois Posted October 31, 2010 Posted October 31, 2010 (edited) The coach and AD should both be fired immediately. Reckless disregard for human life having anyone 50 ft in the air during hurricane force winds -which had blowing all week not to mention he was carrying out the highly critical task of filming the scout team QB throw to red shirt WRs Ever watch IRT: The World's Most Deadliest Roads? (Ice Road Truckers)... Makes what they do back in North America look like a regulated walk in the park. The whole 3rd world should be shut down for reckless disregard for human life. Edited October 31, 2010 by ExiledInIllinois
H2o Posted October 31, 2010 Posted October 31, 2010 Sad situation all the way around, no doubt. Not pinning the blame on Kelly alone, but someone should've exercised common sense in this situation and not allowed the kid to go up there. I'm an ND fan and I have no idea what should be done. No matter what is done in this world it will not bring the young man back to his family, nor will it bring them comfort or closure. I pray that God would comfort them, along with his friends in their time of mourning.
Max Fischer Posted October 31, 2010 Posted October 31, 2010 Brainless move by Kelly even holding practice outdoors...but I assume I'm in a very small minority holding the kid responsible as well for not saying "!@#$ you, I'm not going up in that thing in this wind" and walking away? He was a 20 year old kid. At that age, you don't always feel like it's entirely your decision (loss of job, ridicule, peer pressure, etc). Kelly et al should have known better to put anyone in that situation. They cannot lose enough.
ieatcrayonz Posted November 1, 2010 Posted November 1, 2010 The players watch them. So when your coach is telling you you're rounding off your routes, or always taking the wrong angles on a tackle, they can see it watch it themselves from an outside perspective. I'm sure different colleges do different things with the tapes, and yes I think they are a pretty important tool. But not having it for one day wouldn't have been an issue at all. Thing is, it didn't say anyone forced him to go up the that thing. There's just as good of a chance that he just assumed since practice was on and it was his job to film it, he would do it. Someone must have asked him to report to work. If they practiced inside the day before he probably got a call to say "don't show up"; then he probably got another saying "we're back outside today so be there at noon". Somebody made that decision and it wasn't the kid. I'm sure no one meant for him to be harmed, but they were so focused on filming a practice that they put concerns about the kid on the back burner. Nice.
linksfiend Posted November 1, 2010 Posted November 1, 2010 I would bet some construction association has guidelines for this equipment that is well below 60mph/gusts and I doubt this kid was ever given proper safety training. Unless you can show me records on the training or the kid bypassing some checklist, ND is largely responsible.
Just Jack Posted November 1, 2010 Posted November 1, 2010 I would bet some construction association has guidelines for this equipment that is well below 60mph/gusts and I doubt this kid was ever given proper safety training. Unless you can show me records on the training or the kid bypassing some checklist, ND is largely responsible. OSHA considers a scissors lift to be a mobile scafold, I could not find a specific wind speed regulation on their webpage. Another quick search did find these regulations from the ChristChurch, NZ airport. The recommend not using it above 45kph which works out to just under 28mph. Here's another site that also mentions not using it above 28mph. I have been through "training" on scissors and boom lifts. Basically it was read the operating manual, watch a 10 minute video, then the instructor would take us up one at a time, stick the basket in a corner over some pipes and have us bring it back down. The whole process took about an hour.
linksfiend Posted November 1, 2010 Posted November 1, 2010 JLG (the manufacturer that I see the most) also cites 28 mph in their safety manual http://csapps.jlg.com/OnlineManuals/Manuals/JLG/JLG%20Scissor%20Lifts/E2%20Scissors/Operation_3120736_11-21-03_ANSI_English.pdf
Acantha Posted November 1, 2010 Posted November 1, 2010 Someone must have asked him to report to work. If they practiced inside the day before he probably got a call to say "don't show up"; then he probably got another saying "we're back outside today so be there at noon". Somebody made that decision and it wasn't the kid. I'm sure no one meant for him to be harmed, but they were so focused on filming a practice that they put concerns about the kid on the back burner. Nice. They film practices inside too, just not from a tower. Again, there's too much conjecture.
ExiledInIllinois Posted November 1, 2010 Posted November 1, 2010 OSHA considers a scissors lift to be a mobile scafold, I could not find a specific wind speed regulation on their webpage. Another quick search did find these regulations from the ChristChurch, NZ airport. The recommend not using it above 45kph which works out to just under 28mph. Here's another site that also mentions not using it above 28mph. I have been through "training" on scissors and boom lifts. Basically it was read the operating manual, watch a 10 minute video, then the instructor would take us up one at a time, stick the basket in a corner over some pipes and have us bring it back down. The whole process took about an hour. See this the thing... The same winds were in the whole area and predicted days before. They were even saying the last true storm like this (low centered in the Uupper Lakes) was in 1975 when the "gales of November" (of course this was October) came early and the Edmund Fitz went down. What were they sleeping in such a smart town like South Bend...?? All but the heaviest marine interests (and even they were) were advised to stay in port days before. The low being center around the Upper Lakes caused the southern half of Lake Michigan's elevation to drop low... At one point our upper pool at the lock (which is Lake Michigan elevation) dropped 3 feet... At one point the lake was 1.5 feet LOWER than the river and water was flowing back to the lake. South Bend is only about 70 miles from where I live. I was picking stuff up the night before, putting away chairs and what not... Basically battening down the hatches a good 12 hours before the first strong winds in that string of days. Even in Chicago, they closed the Sears Tower Skydeck, pulled in the the outside ledge (of course) and all construction companies in the area buttoned down devices and scaffolding. I guess the newsflash didn't get to South Bend... They must use my wife's motto of never finding out what will happen... That is what the husband is for. JLG (the manufacturer that I see the most) also cites 28 mph in their safety manual http://csapps.jlg.co...NSI_English.pdf Winds in the South Bend area were predicted days BEFORE to be that and more with gusts exceeding 40-45 mph. The paper trail on this one is gonna be damning.
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