1B4IDie Posted October 25, 2010 Posted October 25, 2010 (edited) I didn't see this specific topic called out and I think it deserves its own thread. Sorry if its already out there but Spiller gets the blame for losing this game. There were 4 obvious big plays that changed the game. 1. Pos dropping a possible Pic6 2. The Forward Progression Debacle and Helmet throw. 3. Throwing to a double covered Roscoe, when Shawn Nelson was wide open with no one near him. (They called an audible and a DE had to go out and cover Shawn Nelson, doesn't matter who else did what you throw it to a TE that has DE covering him) The Ball bounces off of Ray Lewis and Ed Reed gets the picl 4. SPILLER Pulling a McKelvin Of all the mistakes the Spiller mistake is the most inexcusable it has been driving me crazy. There are :58 seconds left in the half, you have an unexpected 10 point lead and you catch the Ball Two and Half Yards deep. Why would you run it out!!!???? Best case scenario you run it back for a touchdown, even still that means that Ravens get the ball back. Not a great play. Bruce DeHaven needed to do what Bobby April didn't do in Week 1 of 2009, tell his kick returner to sit on the ball if its in the end zone. ( Here is the official play call for people that say he wasn't in the end zone. B.Cundiff kicks 72 yards from BLT 30 to BUF -2. C.Spiller to BUF 27 for 29 yards (J.Parmele). FUMBLES (J.Parmele), RECOVERED by BLT-J.Wilson at BUF 27. J.Wilson to BUF 27 for no gain (C.McIntyre).) If I were playing Madden I wouldn't even run the ball out of the end zone in that situation. You take a knee, and give your offense a chance to try and to make a play or just take a knee and go to halftime with a ten point league. I have a freaking headache from thinking about how stupid that was. If McKelvin just took a knee in 2009 the Bills win the game, if Spiller took a knee the Bills most likely win the game. Out of all of the big game changing plays in the game against the Ravens Spiller running it out is so easily addressable, it should never have happend. Pos isn't a WR, so ok I get he can't catch, Fitzy, played lights out, so he made a mistake, but it was pretty obvious that Nelson was the presnap read and they seemed to be forcing to Roscoe all game, and the forward progression call is all on the refs. Spiller pulling a McKelvin is all on Spiller and DeHaven's coaching. SPILLER COULDN'T HERE ME SCREAMING "SIT DOWN! SIT DOWN!!!" FROM SECTION 535 when he caught the ball. Too bad it wasn't Madden. Edited October 25, 2010 by Levitre + Wang = Wood
C.Biscuit97 Posted October 25, 2010 Posted October 25, 2010 He fumbled trying to make a play. If he took it to the house, which he has the talent to do everything he touches the ball, you'd praise him. He fumbled and looked like the most upset guy on the team. It happened and it's done. I fully expect a lot more good than bad out of him.
1B4IDie Posted October 25, 2010 Author Posted October 25, 2010 (edited) He fumbled trying to make a play. If he took it to the house, which he has the talent to do everything he touches the ball, you'd praise him. He fumbled and looked like the most upset guy on the team. It happened and it's done. I fully expect a lot more good than bad out of him. Why would you run it out!!!???? Best case scenario you run it back for a touchdown, even still that means that Ravens get the ball back. Not a great play. You take a knee, and give your offense a chance to try and to make a play or just take a knee and go to halftime with a ten point league. Edited October 25, 2010 by Levitre + Wang = Wood
Billmatic Posted October 25, 2010 Posted October 25, 2010 I think you are refering to Whitner not Poz, Poz had a pass break up that he couldn't intercept but made a great play on. Whitner however dropped the for sure pick 6. I agree with Spiller returning the ball in that situation because thats what he does best but i would also preach ball security. he just wasn't as aware as he should have been.
BarkLessWagMore Posted October 25, 2010 Posted October 25, 2010 Why would you run it out!!!???? Best case scenario you run it back for a touchdown, even still that means that Ravens get the ball back. Not a great play. Just so I'm clear on this. If he had returned it for a TD, this would have been a bad play. Got it.
1B4IDie Posted October 25, 2010 Author Posted October 25, 2010 (edited) I think you are refering to Whitner not Poz, Poz had a pass break up that he couldn't intercept but made a great play on. Whitner however dropped the for sure pick 6. I agree with Spiller returning the ball in that situation because thats what he does best but i would also preach ball security. he just wasn't as aware as he should have been. Why? Why do you agree with running the ball out. Let's say he runs it back to the 50, its a kick return, it would take atleast 25-40 seconds off of the clock. Which would you rather have 1st and 10 with :58 at the 20, or 1st and 10 and the 50 with :28 7/10 offensive coordinators would take the time. You can have 1 strike for 30 yards that takes 8 second of the clock and the receiver gets out of bounds. This is what I mean. From a pure football strategy situation, why would you want your KR to pull it out? Just so I'm clear on this. If he had returned it for a TD, this would have been a bad play. Got it. How can you misquote a quote that is 2 lines above your response? I'm talking about football strategy. Why would you tell your KR to take it out of the end zone in that situation? Edited October 25, 2010 by Levitre + Wang = Wood
Meathead Posted October 25, 2010 Posted October 25, 2010 the 'trying to make a play' argument is very weak. you can try to make a play and still be responsible with the ball. its a classic rookie mistake, just something he has to feel the searing pain a few times before he realizes hes got to keep that ball near his body and on his mind in that situation mckelvin is just an idiot. yes im still mad
Kelly the Dog Posted October 25, 2010 Posted October 25, 2010 Why? Why do you agree with running the ball out. Let's say he runs it back to the 50, its a kick return, it would take atleast 25-40 seconds off of the clock. Which would you rather have 1st and 10 with :58 at the 20, or 1st and 10 and the 50 with :28 7/10 offensive coordinators would take the time. You can have 1 strike for 30 yards that takes 8 second of the clock and the receiver gets out of bounds. This is what I mean. From a pure football strategy situation, why would you want your KR to pull it out? How can you misquote a quote that is 2 lines above your response? I'm talking about football strategy. Why would you tell your KR to take it out of the end zone in that situation? 25-40 seconds off the clock on a 50 yard return? How about 10 seconds, unless he's chased and cutting back and forth across the field a few times. There was no question he should have run that ball out with 58 seconds left (clock doesn't start until he touches it). There is also no question in my mind that he wasn't holding the ball too securely. The hit that caused the fumble was not a hard hit, he just wasn't expecting it, which he should have been (and should always be). Spiller, however, does not at all have a ball security problem in his history though. I wouldn't worry about it unless it happens a few times. He definitely should have run that ball out though. I guarantee you that both Gailey and De Haven wanted him to.
C.Biscuit97 Posted October 25, 2010 Posted October 25, 2010 the 'trying to make a play' argument is very weak. you can try to make a play and still be responsible with the ball. its a classic rookie mistake, just something he has to feel the searing pain a few times before he realizes hes got to keep that ball near his body and on his mind in that situation mckelvin is just an idiot. yes im still mad No it's not. A guy came from behind and knocked it loose. Spiller didn't fumble once in college. http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/player/profile?playerId=192151 If Spiller is on my team, I want him returning that ball 100 times out of 100.
billsfaninvgs Posted October 25, 2010 Posted October 25, 2010 You lost me at the poz drop when it was Whitner. I don't know how you can mix the two up. As far as spiller running it out from a strategy stand point I think any Offensive coodinator would rather have the ball at the fifty. It changes how you call plays. Field position dictates play calling and if a 30 yard strike takes 8 seconds off the clock then your in the red zone and u can make a lot happen with 20 sec down there.
BillsfaninFl Posted October 25, 2010 Posted October 25, 2010 There were 4 obvious big plays that changed the game. 1. Pos dropping a possible Pic6 2. The Forward Progression Debacle and Helmet throw. 3. Throwing to a double covered Roscoe, when Shawn Nelson was wide open with no one near him. (They called an audible and a DE had to go out and cover Shawn Nelson, doesn't matter who else did what you throw it to a TE that has DE covering him) The Ball bounces off of Ray Lewis and Ed Reed gets the picl 4. SPILLER Pulling a McKelvin Why would you run it out!!!???? Best case scenario you run it back for a touchdown, even still that means that Ravens get the ball back. Not a great play. Wait a minute. Three out of four plays that killed a win were by the offense? Then why are so many crucifying the defense? Also, many of us have been bitching about our lackluster offense for the last few years. Then the team pulls out all the stops trying to win and you want us to be more conservative? I've had more than a decade of conservative (except half of Bledsoe's first year in Buffalo) and I'm sick of it. This game was a breath of fresh air and I hope they continue to play like they did (backs against the wall, desparate for a win).
billsfaninvgs Posted October 25, 2010 Posted October 25, 2010 Oh and spiller didn't cost the bills this game if anything it was the defense. The defense gives up way to many points each week. They are the problem. Most notably the pass rush
1B4IDie Posted October 25, 2010 Author Posted October 25, 2010 (edited) You lost me at the poz drop when it was Whitner. I don't know how you can mix the two up. As far as spiller running it out from a strategy stand point I think any Offensive coodinator would rather have the ball at the fifty. It changes how you call plays. Field position dictates play calling and if a 30 yard strike takes 8 seconds off the clock then your in the red zone and u can make a lot happen with 20 sec down there. I was at the game so I don't get the benefit of a million TV reviews; but there was definitely a pass breakup by Pos where the ball hit both of his hands when he was standing up. In the stadium it looked like a dropped INT. It took :10 for him to fumble it at the 27, so it will take more than 8 for him to get to the 50. Wait a minute. Three out of four plays that killed a win were by the offense? Then why are so many crucifying the defense? Also, many of us have been bitching about our lackluster offense for the last few years. Then the team pulls out all the stops trying to win and you want us to be more conservative? I've had more than a decade of conservative (except half of Bledsoe's first year in Buffalo) and I'm sick of it. This game was a breath of fresh air and I hope they continue to play like they did (backs against the wall, desparate for a win). How is putting the ball in your offense's hand conservative? Spiller sits down and the Bills have :58 seconds to go 55 yards and kick a field goal before the half. I'm surprised you guys drill McKelvin but give Spiller a Pass. If you don't learn from your mistakes . . . Edited October 25, 2010 by Levitre + Wang = Wood
Billmatic Posted October 26, 2010 Posted October 26, 2010 I was at the game so I don't get the benefit of a million TV reviews; but there was definitely a pass breakup by Pos where the ball hit both of his hands when he was standing up. In the stadium it looked like a dropped INT. It took :10 for him to fumble it at the 27, so it will take more than 8 for him to get to the 50. How is putting the ball in your offense's hand conservative? Spiller sits down and the Bills have :58 seconds to go 55 yards and kick a field goal before the half. I'm surprised you guys drill McKelvin but give Spiller a Pass. If you don't learn from your mistakes . . . I literally can't take you seriously, you really think giving the offense the ball is more time effective than a KR to the 50? the only way for that to possibly happen is if he is stretching the field from left to right rather than forward. and still if he does that chances are its going to be an even bigger run back which could put us in scoring position immediately. IF it took 10 seconds for him to fumble the ball it was because there was a scrum trying to recover it and that's what ate up the clock, not him running it out. The fastest man on this team running the ball 100 yards in a straight line should take about 10 seconds, now throw in the football aspect and i'm being generous here, 20 seconds tops. how do you figure it takes him 30 seconds to run 30 yards? your statement is asinine.
KD in CA Posted October 26, 2010 Posted October 26, 2010 So we drafted this guy with the 9th pick (instead of someone to help the worst defense in the league) in the hopes he would.....take a knee.
1B4IDie Posted October 26, 2010 Author Posted October 26, 2010 So we drafted this guy with the 9th pick (instead of someone to help the worst defense in the league) in the hopes he would.....take a knee. OK I see whats going on here, Lets pretend its not CJ Spiller, lets say its Joe McGilacutty. Joe McGilacutty catches the ball Two and half yards deep with 10 point lead and 58 seconds left in the half, do you want Joe running the ball back or do you want a hot QB to get the ball back in his hands and have him try to make something happen? Besides the fact that there hasn't been a logical response to running the kick out in that situation besides: "Its a Spiller he should, ah, run kicks and stuff and make things happen and stuff because he was, ah drafted and stuff."
NaPolian8693 Posted October 26, 2010 Posted October 26, 2010 Everyone is desperate for Spiller to work out, so no one wants to call a spade a spade. That fumble was inexcusable, bottom line. Ball security is his number one priority there, and he failed at it - and it cost his team dearly. Playing hard is important, but so is playing smart.
Acantha Posted October 26, 2010 Posted October 26, 2010 OK I see whats going on here, Lets pretend its not CJ Spiller, lets say its Joe McGilacutty. Joe McGilacutty catches the ball Two and half yards deep with 10 point lead and 58 seconds left in the half, do you want Joe running the ball back or do you want a hot QB to get the ball back in his hands and have him try to make something happen? Besides the fact that there hasn't been a logical response to running the kick out in that situation besides: "Its a Spiller he should, ah, run kicks and stuff and make things happen and stuff because he was, ah drafted and stuff." :58 left in the game, you take a knee. You don't don't sit on the ball with a 10 point lead before the half when you're playing a superior team. The reason no one is agreeing with you is because the strategy that you are spouting is wrong. The only thing that was wrong with that play is that he fumbled. No mnatter what the game situation is, the returner has to know that ball security comes before extra yards.
The_Philster Posted October 26, 2010 Posted October 26, 2010 The fumble was inexcusable...the decision to run it out and try to make a big play is not, however. A KR who cowers in the endzone afraid to take chances is useless...Leodis made the right decision last year and CJ made the right decision Sunday...they just each needed to practice better ball security
Jim in Anchorage Posted October 26, 2010 Posted October 26, 2010 :58 left in the game, you take a knee. You don't don't sit on the ball with a 10 point lead before the half when you're playing a superior team. The reason no one is agreeing with you is because the strategy that you are spouting is wrong. The only thing that was wrong with that play is that he fumbled. No mnatter what the game situation is, the returner has to know that ball security comes before extra yards. Exactly. This isn't football squares where you can win the half.
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