Wow

[OCinBuffalo]

Please tell me that there's an official document backing that PowerPoint.

 

If not, that's extraordinarily amateurish, even for government work. I could do better - hell, I HAVE done better.

Also, go here if you would like HHS to extol the "wonders"...of things other industries have been taking for granted for the last 20 years.

 

Holy crap! There's this new-fangled thing called integrated systems!!! God forbid they ever learn about web services.

 

Fundamentally, health care sucks at computers because they have been served by the modified, not even JV, team consultants. EDIT: The heatlh care regulators, from the HHS secretary all the way down to the surveyors, have no clue about quality assurance, and all they have succeeded in doing is allowing rampant fraud, while needlessly harassing the good providers.

 

None of them have ever run a serious feasibility study, like we did, to determine the best way for health care workers to collect VALID raw data, because none of them even know what that term means. Meanwhile, the government wants to spend billions on these people.

Edited October 26, 2010 by OCinBuffalo

[pBills]

Typical pig headed response " stop wasting my time because I know everything... I read a few PDFs from HHS."

 

Seriously you should run for office you know all of the answers and mindless people like just struggle to stay alive. Hahahaha pompous douche.

[OCinBuffalo]

Typical pig headed response " stop wasting my time because I know everything... I read a few PDFs from HHS."

 

Seriously you should run for office you know all of the answers and mindless people like just struggle to stay alive. Hahahaha pompous douche.

No. Stop wasting my time, because you don't know anything. Did you read that PDF? No? Then you will continue to know nothing.

 

Hahhahaha I have 10x the chance of fixing many of these problems right where I am. In fact, you want me and my outfit right where we are, you just don't know it yet.

 

What we are doing MAY end up helping Democrats not look like complete fools on this issue. It MAY even provide a vehicle for both parties to get out of the gutter and work together, because finally they will have accurate cost data that hasn't been extrapolated(poorly) based on financial allocation(retarded).

 

But, since you don't have any idea what I just said, and won't bother to learn it, I suppose I shouldn't have included that part. Maybe Alaska_Darin is right, and I should just call you an idiot?

 

Edit: Oh, and we're still waiting for you to describe exactly what you would amend. Here's your opportunity to prove you aren't an idiot.

Edited October 27, 2010 by OCinBuffalo

[pBills]

No. Stop wasting my time, because you don't know anything. Did you read that PDF? No? Then you will continue to know nothing.

 

Hahhahaha I have 10x the chance of fixing many of these problems right where I am. In fact, you want me and my outfit right where we are, you just don't know it yet.

 

What we are doing MAY end up helping Democrats not look like complete fools on this issue. It MAY even provide a vehicle for both parties to get out of the gutter and work together, because finally they will have accurate cost data that hasn't been extrapolated(poorly) based on financial allocation(retarded).

 

But, since you don't have any idea what I just said, and won't bother to learn it, I suppose I shouldn't have included that part. Maybe Alaska_Darin is right, and I should just call you an idiot?

 

Edit: Oh, and we're still waiting for you to describe exactly what you would amend. Here's your opportunity to prove you aren't an idiot.

 

 

First off, see the reply button? Don't click it. You want me and my outfit? Sorry buddy, don't swing that way. And yes, be like Alaska Darin, that will get you far in life. HAHAHA!!

 

Again, you read some PDFs and act as though you are an expert. Good for you.

 

 

1. 
    
   
2. I would change in the bill is that it doesn't do enough for Primary Care Physicians. They need to alter the bill, creating more incentives for doctors to stay that course rather than head to specialty medicine.
   
3. They truly have to figure out a better way to pay for it than simply saying it will pay for itself and by raising taxes. Adding that much to the deficit is ridiculous.
   
4. I do not like what we are currently seeing with employers having to alter coverage or remove it all together. Also, there should be no talk of fining an employer for not covering a employee.
   
5. I am on the fence on the individual mandate to have health insurance. Part of says it's a great thing, another part say no.
   

 

 

All in all you have your opinions and views on politics and life as do I. Unfortunately, you believe you are always right. Attitudes like that will be the downfall of our society.

[jjamie12]

First off, see the reply button? Don't click it. You want me and my outfit? Sorry buddy, don't swing that way. And yes, be like Alaska Darin, that will get you far in life. HAHAHA!!

 

Again, you read some PDFs and act as though you are an expert. Good for you.

 

 

1. 
    
   
2. I would change in the bill is that it doesn't do enough for Primary Care Physicians. They need to alter the bill, creating more incentives for doctors to stay that course rather than head to specialty medicine.
   
3. They truly have to figure out a better way to pay for it than simply saying it will pay for itself and by raising taxes. Adding that much to the deficit is ridiculous.
   
4. I do not like what we are currently seeing with employers having to alter coverage or remove it all together. Also, there should be no talk of fining an employer for not covering a employee.
   
5. I am on the fence on the individual mandate to have health insurance. Part of says it's a great thing, another part say no.
   

 

 

All in all you have your opinions and views on politics and life as do I. Unfortunately, you believe you are always right. Attitudes like that will be the downfall of our society.

You really struggle with separating the way the message is delivered from the actual message. You should probably try and re-read everything that OC has posted here in this thread after a drink or two so you can not have the reaction you do to it simply because of OC's 'style'. You *might* even change your mind if you'd take off your "I don't like OC so I won't try to absorb anything he says" blinders.

[ExiledInIllinois]

Try again...

 

What is the big deal... My costs have been going up drasctically the last few years. Just got my 2011 premiums, my employer the fed will kick in $875.29 a MONTH... I will pay $565.61 A MONTH out of my pocket. That is 260 every two weeks... 4 years ago I was paying about a 100 dollars less every two weeks.

 

How long have we had this law? I didn't think so. So why have premiums been going up? Oh... Right it must be the lemming response... Obama health care bad!

 

My ins. company is Humana.

 

Oh... And my health care provider still bills me for piddly crap here and there that I can't make heads or tails over.. 25 for this, 10 for this. I just don't pay. If they get squirrely with me, they can take me to court for the nickel and dime crap... Somehow the stuff always magically drops off. I am serious. I get calls like: 'You know that 15 dollars that we billed you?" I say: "No?" They say: "Well we adjusted it and you don't have to pay it.." Like I am really gonna pay some mystery billings anyway?

 

Eff it... Who cares. They are getting over 1300 bucks a month.

[Magox]

Try again...

 

What is the big deal... My costs have been going up drasctically the last few years. Just got my 2011 premiums, my employer the fed will kick in $875.29 a MONTH... I will pay $565.61 A MONTH out of my pocket. That is 260 every two weeks... 4 years ago I was paying about a 100 dollars less every two weeks.

 

How long have we had this law? I didn't think so. So why have premiums been going up? Oh... Right it must be the lemming response... Obama health care bad!

 

My ins. company is Humana.

 

Oh... And my health care provider still bills me for piddly crap here and there that I can't make heads or tails over.. 25 for this, 10 for this. I just don't pay. If they get squirrely with me, they can take me to court for the nickel and dime crap... Somehow the stuff always magically drops off. I am serious. I get calls like: 'You know that 15 dollars that we billed you?" I say: "No?" They say: "Well we adjusted it and you don't have to pay it.." Like I am really gonna pay some mystery billings anyway?

 

Eff it... Who cares. They are getting over 1300 bucks a month.

You didn't even read the articles did you? If anyone has the lemming response Exiled it is you, because of your blind support of a bill that you will defend no matter how terrible it is, simply because you want to back your guy. So let's not kid ourselves

 

Anyone who thinks rationally knows that premiums are going up regardless, that isn't in dispute. What we do know is that as a result of the health insurance law, premiums are going up even more then if there wasn't any bill that had passed. If the Obama administration really wanted to lower premiums then they would of actually looked to enact pieces of legislation that would of addressed rising medical costs, not reforming the insurers. How retarded is that? The reality is that your guy never really intended to seriously attempt to contain skyrocketing medical costs, what they wanted all along which was the ultimate liberal wet dream was to provide something close to Universal HealthCare no matter how bad the bill was.

 

As a result, businesses will hire less, premiums will go even higher, healthcare will be rationed due to an increased burden on primary care physicians, state budgets will be worse off because of the massive expansion of medicaid enrollees, certain rural hospitals will go under, taxes will go higher on the upper income earners taking money out of the economy, certain corporations will be forced to drop coverage to lower payed employees and the national debt will explode. Wait until the mandates kick in, then you will really see premiums explode. Why? Because the penalty is so little and insurers can't deny coverage to anyone, when you couple these two things together, you will get tons of younger and healthier people dropping their insurance until they need it knowing they can't get denied, which will dilute the health insurance risk pools with sicker people because of all the healthier people dropping out which in turn will cause premiums to go even higher.

 

 

There are some of us on this board that came to these conclusions before the bill was passed, we discussed this in a rational and logical manner and now that they are happening, the best you and Pbills can do is "Obama health care bad!"

 

If you stepped away and took off the partisan goggles for a sec and really tried to understand this law then maybe just maybe you would see that this was a terrible piece of legislation. Well-intended, but none the less a terrible piece of legislation.

[ExiledInIllinois]

You didn't even read the articles did you? If anyone has the lemming response Exiled it is you, because of your blind support of a bill that you will defend no matter how terrible it is, simply because you want to back your guy. So let's not kid ourselves

 

Anyone who thinks rationally knows that premiums are going up regardless, that isn't in dispute. What we do know is that as a result of the health insurance law, premiums are going up even more then if there wasn't any bill that had passed. If the Obama administration really wanted to lower premiums then they would of actually looked to enact pieces of legislation that would of addressed rising medical costs, not reforming the insurers. How retarded is that? The reality is that your guy never really intended to seriously attempt to contain skyrocketing medical costs, what they wanted all along which was the ultimate liberal wet dream was to provide something close to Universal HealthCare no matter how bad the bill was.

 

As a result, businesses will hire less, premiums will go even higher, healthcare will be rationed due to an increased burden on primary care physicians, state budgets will be worse off because of the massive expansion of medicaid enrollees, certain rural hospitals will go under, taxes will go higher on the upper income earners taking money out of the economy, certain corporations will be forced to drop coverage to lower payed employees and the national debt will explode. Wait until the mandates kick in, then you will really see premiums explode. Why? Because the penalty is so little and insurers can't deny coverage to anyone, when you couple these two things together, you will get tons of younger and healthier people dropping their insurance until they need it knowing they can't get denied, which will dilute the health insurance risk pools with sicker people because of all the healthier people dropping out which in turn will cause premiums to go even higher.

 

 

There are some of us on this board that came to these conclusions before the bill was passed, we discussed this in a rational and logical manner and now that they are happening, the best you and Pbills can do is "Obama health care bad!"

 

If you stepped away and took off the partisan goggles for a sec and really tried to understand this law then maybe just maybe you would see that this was a terrible piece of legislation. Well-intended, but none the less a terrible piece of legislation.

 

Turn the clock back and it is even worse.

[OCinBuffalo]

First off, see the reply button? Don't click it. You want me and my outfit? Sorry buddy, don't swing that way. \\

Ah, gay jokes. I will remember this if you ever start whining about gay marriage, and how insensitive everybody is.

And yes, be like Alaska Darin, that will get you far in life. HAHAHA!!

I have no idea how far Darin has gotten in life, but more importantly, we can add this to the massive list of things you don't know.

Again, you read some PDFs and act as though you are an expert. Good for you.

No, as I said, I have literally read EVERYTHNG that I deemed worthy of my time, and that is an ongoing process. And, more importantly, I have created an entire methodology and enterprise system, from scratch, to specifically deal with the huge chunks of health care business process that the turdish health care software companies have completely ignored.

 

I just happened to be reviewing that CMS stuff when you decided to start running your mouth. I have 20+ more examples of why the Federal government's incompetence makes it near impossible for them to administrate Obama care as designed. Want me to drop one on you every day for a month?

1. 
    
   
2. I would change in the bill is that it doesn't do enough for Primary Care Physicians. They need to alter the bill, creating more incentives for doctors to stay that course rather than head to specialty medicine.
   
3. They truly have to figure out a better way to pay for it than simply saying it will pay for itself and by raising taxes. Adding that much to the deficit is ridiculous.
   
4. I do not like what we are currently seeing with employers having to alter coverage or remove it all together. Also, there should be no talk of fining an employer for not covering a employee.
   
5. I am on the fence on the individual mandate to have health insurance. Part of says it's a great thing, another part say no.
   

1. But how, and how do you propose to do that while keeping the "deficit neutral" lie intact? This is the #1 thing I have been posting since the health care debate has started. So, we agree, but you don't know how to do this, and I do.

 

2. Again how? I know how. It's a simple, logical progression that even you should be able to understand:

a. You RATIONALLY, not macro swings(Democrats blindly throwing $$ at the problem and Republicans blindly cutting), cannot cut cost if you cannot manage it.

b. You cannot manage cost if you cannot measure it.

c. You cannot measure cost by reliance on health care workers sitting at desktops....and that's where we come in.

 

As I said: we know how to solve these problems, and we are. A little patience though, please: as I far as I can tell, we are the ONLY way that Obamacare has a hope of getting done. So, you WANT me right where I am, bailing out Democrats from EPIC FAIL.

 

3a. Then you hate Obamacare, because it has ALWAYS been about driving people to the "public option". They took that part out, but that was a smokescreen. The whole point of Obamacare is to drive people to the governmemnt exchanges, which are easily aggregated into...the single payer system that far-left wanted from the get-go.

3b. The point of the fine is to make it blatantly obvious to employers that they are better off dropping their employees' health insurance, which means they move to the government exchange...oh what a coincidence! :rollyseyes:

 

If you want these changes made, then you are 100% for REPEAL, never mind replace. You are confused.

 

4. Well, when you realize that this is an abuse of the commerce clause, and, will probably cause the SCOTUS to finally define solid limits for that clause, which will mean that the Feds will lose the threat of power, which means Dems are going to get screwed across the board, now and forever, having once again gotten the exact opposite of what they intend...I will will laugh, and you will blame Bush.

 

 

All in all you have your opinions and views on politics and life as do I. Unfortunately, you believe you are always right. Attitudes like that will be the downfall of our society.

Yes. But the difference is:

my positions and views are based on practical experience, years of intensive intellectual labors, tons of reading and a commitment to staying in field doing some project work every day

 

your positions are based on...what exactly?

 

As far as being right? I get PAID to be right about these issues. Anybody paying you for your "knowledge" of this issue?

Edited October 28, 2010 by OCinBuffalo

[pBills]

You really struggle with separating the way the message is delivered from the actual message. You should probably try and re-read everything that OC has posted here in this thread after a drink or two so you can not have the reaction you do to it simply because of OC's 'style'. You *might* even change your mind if you'd take off your "I don't like OC so I won't try to absorb anything he says" blinders.

 

 

I could really care less about OC or anything of the other anything the Dems haters do. So no OC blinders. The disconnect comes from people like him stated that they are ALWAYS right no matter what.

 

He asked for my opinion on what I would like altered or changed. I gave it. As usual someone can give their opinion on a subject and others tell them they are wrong, etc. Why bother.

[Magox]

Turn the clock back and it is even worse.

Actually, in fact it's not.

 

I could really care less about OC or anything of the other anything the Dems haters do. So no OC blinders. The disconnect comes from people like him stated that they are ALWAYS right no matter what.

 

He asked for my opinion on what I would like altered or changed. I gave it. As usual someone can give their opinion on a subject and others tell them they are wrong, etc. Why bother.

The problem PBills is that you like Exiled and many others are so blindly supportive of the president, that you refuse to look at the substance of the bill and it's negative consequences. It's much easier for you to just chalk it up as "well they were going higher anyway" or "Oh you just hate Obama" when in fact, corporations and small businesses are making decisions today that are effecting their employees due to the health care law, or that premium rate increases are soaring partially because of the health care law and that is indisputable because on the premium rate increase letters that people are receiving it states it right there.

 

And no, you just can't say "well they are just blaming it on OBama to justify their rate increase", that's not how it works. It goes to a GOVERNMENT state health commission board and they have to review it and give the ok.

 

It's time to just take a step back and say, "you know what, this bill really isn't that good, they kinda screwed up on this one."

 

It's just not a good bill and I spoke with you personally about this at length before the bill was passed, and I told you these things would happen and guess what? Alot more damage will come about in the next few years, specially when the mandates kick in. Hopefully, it never gets to that.

Edited October 28, 2010 by Magox

[Doc]

Before Obamacare, rates were going up ~10% a year. After Obamacare, rates are going up at least 20%. So within even just half half a year of its existence, it has failed at controlling costs for people, much less health care costs. Does anyone really think premiums will go down in the future?

Edited October 28, 2010 by Doc

[pBills]

Actually, in fact it's not.

 

 

The problem PBills is that you like Exiled and many others are so blindly supportive of the president, that you refuse to look at the substance of the bill and it's negative consequences. It's much easier for you to just chalk it up as "well they were going higher anyway" or "Oh you just hate Obama" when in fact, corporations and small businesses are making decisions today that are effecting their employees due to the health care law, or that premium rate increases are soaring partially because of the health care law and that is indisputable because on the premium rate increase letters that people are receiving it states it right there.

 

And no, you just can't say "well they are just blaming it on OBama to justify their rate increase", that's not how it works. It goes to a GOVERNMENT state health commission board and they have to review it and give the ok.

 

It's time to just take a step back and say, "you know what, this bill really isn't that good, they kinda screwed up on this one."

 

It's just not a good bill and I spoke with you personally about this at length before the bill was passed, and I told you these things would happen and guess what? Alot more damage will come about in the next few years, specially when the mandates kick in. Hopefully, it never gets to that.

 

 

Problem is that people believe that. I know that the President has made mistakes, like ALL presidents. I have said countless times I am interested in hearing all sides. Until the other side becomes nasty. Then what's the point. Like any bill there are negatives. I know that. I also know that like every bill there are positives. Of course, 99.9% of this forum would never agree to that. They will never look across the aisle. In regards to you saying that I will simply chalk it up to rates would go up anyway... fact of the matter is that the system is broken and rates have been going up for some time now. That is a fact. The move that the industry did by raising rates by 30%-40% was brilliant. They make people mad at the bill instead of them and they still get their cash. Sad thing is that people can't see that.

 

Back to the bill... I have never said it was a perfect bill. Of course it needs work, amendments to be made. Scrapping it completely, I think is foolish. Just my personal opinion.

 

So to sum up everything I wrote above.... Bill = Both sides SHOULD (but won't) work together and make amendments. My Democratic Support = Yes I am a Dem, however I am open to listening to opposing views until someone starts with attitude, calling people dumb, and telling me that they and their side of the aisle are always right. So if people want to be civil and discuss items... I will have no problem with that.

[IDBillzFan]

Before Obamacare, rates were going up ~10% a year. After Obamacare, rates are going up at least 20%.

That's just something insurance comnpanies are doing to make Obama look bad. That's all. Kind of like all those private companies keeping trillions of dollars on the sidelines instead of using that money to hire people. Those companies are intentionally not hiring staff they don't need because they want to make the president look bad.

 

It's all just one big global plot to make the president look bad. If you weren't so angry, you'd be thinking clearly and would understand that, as the president would say, you'd think you'd be thanking him instead of falling for all these lies perpetuated by the heavily right-leaning MSM.

[OCinBuffalo]

Problem is that people believe that. I know that the President has made mistakes, like ALL presidents. I have said countless times I am interested in hearing all sides. Until the other side becomes nasty. Then what's the point. Like any bill there are negatives. I know that. I also know that like every bill there are positives. Of course, 99.9% of this forum would never agree to that. They will never look across the aisle. In regards to you saying that I will simply chalk it up to rates would go up anyway... fact of the matter is that the system is broken and rates have been going up for some time now. That is a fact. The move that the industry did by raising rates by 30%-40% was brilliant. They make people mad at the bill instead of them and they still get their cash. Sad thing is that people can't see that.

 

Back to the bill... I have never said it was a perfect bill. Of course it needs work, amendments to be made. Scrapping it completely, I think is foolish. Just my personal opinion.

 

So to sum up everything I wrote above.... Bill = Both sides SHOULD (but won't) work together and make amendments. My Democratic Support = Yes I am a Dem, however I am open to listening to opposing views until someone starts with attitude, calling people dumb, and telling me that they and their side of the aisle are always right. So if people want to be civil and discuss items... I will have no problem with that.

So what if I told you that I can also identify the good things in detail, just like I can with the bad ones? I can do this all day, but I doubt you will make the effort to understand any of it. Instead, you will keep telling us how we have to work together, both sides, etc., without the first friggin clue as to whether or not that is even feasible.

 

When you get done telling us we should all get along: the fundamental flaws in this bill will still remain, the problems will still remain unsolved, along with the new ones this bill creates. They cannot be walked back or "amended" away, even if we forced Congress to sit in a drum circle, sing kumbaya and smoke kind bud for 6 months.

 

These flaws are inherent to the the bill, and they are the direct result of the Democrats letting ideology, and not sound problem solving methodology, rule them. Instead of starting with defining the problems correctly, they started with the solution they wanted, and worked backwards towards the problem. I've seen clients do this plenty, and it's FAIL.

 

Like I said, there are good things, but ALL of them are on the periphery. The root cause of many problems is the core of the bill itself, leaving the only RATIONAL choice: start over.

Edited October 28, 2010 by OCinBuffalo

[pBills]

So what if I told you that I can also identify the good things in detail, just like I can with the bad ones? I can do this all day, but I doubt you will make the effort to understand any of it. Instead, you will keep telling us how we have to work together, both sides, etc., without the first friggin clue as to whether or not that is even feasible.

 

When you get done telling us we should all get along: the fundamental flaws in this bill will still remain, the problems will still remain unsolved, along with the new ones this bill creates. They cannot be walked back or "amended" away, even if we forced Congress to sit in a drum circle, sing kumbaya and smoke kind bud for 6 months.

 

These flaws are inherent to the the bill, and they are the direct result of the Democrats letting ideology, and not sound problem solving methodology, rule them. Instead of starting with defining the problems correctly, they started with the solution they wanted, and worked backwards towards the problem. I've seen clients do this plenty, and it's FAIL.

 

Like I said, there are good things, but ALL of them are on the periphery. The root cause of many problems is the core of the bill itself, leaving the only RATIONAL choice: start over.

 

 

You are just a gem. Way to start out a conversation... "Instead, you will keep telling us how we have to work together, both sides, etc., without the first friggin clue as to whether or not that is even feasible."

 

Let me ask you a very simple question... do you believe that IF the republicans gain power, repeal the bill that they will... A) Try reform with a bill of their own? B) Not let their ideology get in the way?

 

 

Well I guess John Boehner already answered for you... "This is not a time for compromise, and I can tell you that we will not compromise on our principles," said Boehner, who will likely be elected House Speaker if Republicans win control. "To the extent the president wants to work with us, in terms of our goals, we'd welcome his involvement."

Edited October 28, 2010 by pBills

[Gary M]

 

Well I guess John Boehner already answered for you... "This is not a time for compromise, and I can tell you that we will not compromise on our principles," said Boehner, who will likely be elected House Speaker if Republicans win control. "To the extent the president wants to work with us, in terms of our goals, we'd welcome his involvement."

 

Oh like Obama has been bipartisan!!! hahahahahahahaha

[OCinBuffalo]

You are just a gem. Way to start out a conversation... "Instead, you will keep telling us how we have to work together, both sides, etc., without the first friggin clue as to whether or not that is even feasible."

 

Let me ask you a very simple question... do you believe that IF the republicans gain power, repeal the bill that they will... A) Try reform with a bill of their own? B) Not let their ideology get in the way?

 

 

Well I guess John Boehner already answered for you... "This is not a time for compromise, and I can tell you that we will not compromise on our principles," said Boehner, who will likely be elected House Speaker if Republicans win control. "To the extent the president wants to work with us, in terms of our goals, we'd welcome his involvement."

I am merely telling you the truth, because you desperately need to hear it. Stop pretending that your complaining about me somehow makes you look like you understand this any better. Want something positive? OK, I guarantee you now know more about this bill from this thread than you have learned everywhere else, combined.

 

A) The Republicans are committed to Repeal and Replace. Some of them may think they aren't, but they are. They can't just repeal it now, too many modifications to Medicare have already taken affect. Medicare Advantage will be in near shambles by NOV 2011, so they will have to do something. Never mind the fact that: the entire health care system, not just the health care insurance system, needs reform. It does. It does not need socialism, for socialism's sake.

 

B) It would be stupid for them to do that, especially given the fact that they are going to win based on people hating the leftist radicals currently in charge, and not because they love Republicans. And, anyone who really understands this stuff knows that the standard political positions each side likes to take, simply don't apply here. The whole system is f'ed, and therefore, the whole system needs reform. Obamacare has whole areas that have been ideologically left out, or, are clear political payoffs to the usual suspects.

 

After all the crap Obama/Pelosi/Reid have pulled in the last 4 years...you want the Republicans to be conciliatory? They have every right to stick it to Obama, etc. However, if they are smart, they won't. As I said: this is a hate leftists, not love Republicans election. The Republicans, especially the newly elected ones, have to prove they can do the job, and earn people's trust, just like the 94-2000 crowd did.

[Magox]

Congressional Budget Office Director Douglas Elmendorf said the most significant economic effect of President Barack Obamas health care reform package will be to drive people out of the job market.

 

For the economy outside the health sector, the most significant impact of the legislation will be through the labor market, Elmendorf said on Oct. 22.

 

We estimated that the legislation, on net, will reduce the amount of labor used in the economy by roughly half a percent, primarily by reducing the amount that people choose to work.

 

Change you can grieve in!

Edited October 29, 2010 by Magox

[pBills]

I am merely telling you the truth, because you desperately need to hear it. Stop pretending that your complaining about me somehow makes you look like you understand this any better. Want something positive? OK, I guarantee you now know more about this bill from this thread than you have learned everywhere else, combined.

 

A) The Republicans are committed to Repeal and Replace. Some of them may think they aren't, but they are. They can't just repeal it now, too many modifications to Medicare have already taken affect. Medicare Advantage will be in near shambles by NOV 2011, so they will have to do something. Never mind the fact that: the entire health care system, not just the health care insurance system, needs reform. It does. It does not need socialism, for socialism's sake.

 

B) It would be stupid for them to do that, especially given the fact that they are going to win based on people hating the leftist radicals currently in charge, and not because they love Republicans. And, anyone who really understands this stuff knows that the standard political positions each side likes to take, simply don't apply here. The whole system is f'ed, and therefore, the whole system needs reform. Obamacare has whole areas that have been ideologically left out, or, are clear political payoffs to the usual suspects.

 

After all the crap Obama/Pelosi/Reid have pulled in the last 4 years...you want the Republicans to be conciliatory? They have every right to stick it to Obama, etc. However, if they are smart, they won't. As I said: this is a hate leftists, not love Republicans election. The Republicans, especially the newly elected ones, have to prove they can do the job, and earn people's trust, just like the 94-2000 crowd did.

 

 

Merely telling me the truth. Ok. Republicans will repeal and replace. Not likely. I know the talking box told that they will. Fact of the matter is that they won't they had complete control for eight dreadfully long years and did nothing when it came to healthcare reform. Nothing. Now, because they hate this bill and need to own up to a campaign promise will repeal the bill. Or at least attempt to. Again, you will not see any movement from the right on replacing it. Mark my words.

 

I completely agree with you about Pelosi and Reid. I have never been a fan of theirs and they did completely mess up by never wanting to involve republicans. That being said the republicans are no angels either. Again, lets face the facts here the republicans didn't really enter any conversation with an extended hand. Just like Boehner said they other day... they will not compromise their beliefs. They didn't the last two years, they won't in the future. And that is a huge negative with our government.

 

Don't get me wrong, I am hoping that the republicans do not gain control. I don't believe in a lot of their talking points and certainly would not want them even having a snowballs chance in hell to getting placed into law.

 

A fair prediction of the next two years in DC... nothing gets done.