Wow

[pBills]

So in conclusion, you justify your own stupidity because no one else offered up a different solution.

 

Paul Ryan will be surprised to hear this.

 

 

If you don't like the proposed idea... offer a solution. If you can't do that, then shut up. Simple.

[IDBillzFan]

Notice how the Democrats never say anything bad about Ryan in public? They are scared schitless of him, and they should be.

Worse than that, they keep repeating the tired old Alan Colmes WH talking point mantra of "All the GOP does is block our plans and offer no plans of their own."

 

This is, of course, ridiculous, because the Ryan plan has been out there for a while, and even Obama acknowledged that it has a lot of good ideas. Of course, these are not the liberals' ideas and so the best way to keep it down is to reduce it to "They want to take away your social security," but to say there are no plans put out there is a lie at least and disingenuous at best.

 

But it placates the mindless dolts like pBills and Alan Colmes, who are always happy to repeat it over and over to make their own side feel better.

[OCinBuffalo]

Worse than that, they keep repeating the tired old Alan Colmes WH talking point mantra of "All the GOP does is block our plans and offer no plans of their own."

 

This is, of course, ridiculous, because the Ryan plan has been out there for a while, and even Obama acknowledged that it has a lot of good ideas. Of course, these are not the liberals' ideas and so the best way to keep it down is to reduce it to "They want to take away your social security," but to say there are no plans put out there is a lie at least and disingenuous at best.

 

But it placates the mindless dolts like pBills and Alan Colmes, who are always happy to repeat it over and over to make their own side feel better.

Well, since I don't pay attention to either pBills or Colmes, I guess I am safe from their incessant mewling.

 

I am making the call: Ryan will be coming to the Executive Branch one way or the other very soon.

[pBills]

The promise was "If you have health care, you can keep your plan and keep your doctor".

 

I heard it, hell, we all heard it.

 

The reality is "not if your employer drops your plan".

 

This was a lie from the get go, and many of us, especially those of us who have worked in the health insurance market, knew it was a lie the second it was read from the teleprompter.

 

Now you want to talk money? Buddy, there's no way you can add a massive amount of demand to a economic model, not increase supply, and have prices go down. There, in one sentence I have described the fundamental flaw of this idiocy, and you cannot refute it.

 

 

If Ryan keeps going like he has, I wouldn't be surprised if ends up at least as a cabinet secretary, possibly higher.

 

Obama would be a genius to hire him to take over HHS and reform it from within. Obama would be a super genius if he made Ryan an entitlement Czar, and had him fix SSI, Medicare and Medicaid. Hey, if Obama wants to hire all these czars instead of working within the system, why buck the trend? I don't like all these czars, but what the hell else can we hope for?

 

Obama would be an idiot to keep trying to take Ryan on in public debates. Ryan has already smoked him once, and if Obama uses his head instead of his ego, he won't let that happen again.

 

Notice how the Democrats never say anything bad about Ryan in public? They are scared schitless of him, and they should be.

 

 

First off, ANY employer can drop your plan. Even before the Bill. Yes, Ryan had pros to his idea however he also had cons... not just a perfect little path that you like to believe is there.

 

From FactCheck.org

CBO says of the bipartisan measure: "Although employers would have the option of continuing to offer coverage to their workers, nearly all individuals who were not enrolled in Medicare would obtain their basic health insurance coverage through this new system." Nixing the income tax exclusion and offering credits was the approach that John McCain favored during his run for the White House in 2008, and it was criticized (falsely) as being the "largest middle-class tax increase in history" by the Obama campaign. We found that to be nowhere near true — but these new proposals would face the same tax-hike criticism. And would their tax credits be enough for families to buy their own coverage, or pay the added taxes? Experts said McCain’s credits would fall short of keeping up with rising premium costs over time, but this would be true mainly for those with higher incomes.

 

And you are shining example of what is wrong with this country. I have said countless times that I would like to see Amendments made to the bill. You are simply condemning it. Paul Ryan has been serving since 1999. Why is he just now showcasing this plan? Why during the 8 years under republican control?

[IDBillzFan]

If you don't like the proposed idea... offer a solution. If you can't do that, then shut up. Simple.

Here's a solution.

 

Will you now stop saying the right has offered no solutions?

 

Of course you won't.

Edited October 26, 2010 by LABillzFan

[OCinBuffalo]

First off, ANY employer can drop your plan. Even before the Bill. Yes, Ryan had pros to his idea however he also had cons... not just a perfect little path that you like to believe is there.

 

From FactCheck.org

CBO says of the bipartisan measure: "Although employers would have the option of continuing to offer coverage to their workers, nearly all individuals who were not enrolled in Medicare would obtain their basic health insurance coverage through this new system." Nixing the income tax exclusion and offering credits was the approach that John McCain favored during his run for the White House in 2008, and it was criticized (falsely) as being the "largest middle-class tax increase in history" by the Obama campaign. We found that to be nowhere near true — but these new proposals would face the same tax-hike criticism. And would their tax credits be enough for families to buy their own coverage, or pay the added taxes? Experts said McCain’s credits would fall short of keeping up with rising premium costs over time, but this would be true mainly for those with higher incomes.

 

And you are shining example of what is wrong with this country. I have said countless times that I would like to see Amendments made to the bill. You are simply condemning it. Paul Ryan has been serving since 1999. Why is he just now showcasing this plan? Why during the 8 years under republican control?

I am a shining example of know what the f I am talking about when it comes to health care, because I am involved in the business of health care on a daily basis.

 

You think there is a top down, one size fits all, solution that the government can provide. You are patently wrong.

 

You think that micromanaging health care from DC is a good idea, when it has already been proven to be sheer lunacy just in the form of Medicare, never mind the entire system.

 

You are the problem with this country because you spend 0 time learning the material before you form an opinion. What amendments are you talking about? Specifically now, what exactly would you amend?

 

The truth is you have no idea, and, your "I would like to see amendments" position, if you want to call it that, is based purely on the fact that you know that health care reform is unpopular, and you don't want to look stupid on a message board.

 

Whatever.

[Gary M]

Here's a solution.

 

Will you now stop saying the right has offered no solutions?

 

Of course you won't.

 

 

Nancy and her band of flying monkeys didn't have time to read the "healthcare" bill, they sure as hell don't have time to watch some nonsense on the internet (thanks Algore)

Edited October 26, 2010 by Gary M

[1billsfan]

First off, ANY employer can drop your plan. Even before the Bill. Yes, Ryan had pros to his idea however he also had cons... not just a perfect little path that you like to believe is there.

 

From FactCheck.org

CBO says of the bipartisan measure: "Although employers would have the option of continuing to offer coverage to their workers, nearly all individuals who were not enrolled in Medicare would obtain their basic health insurance coverage through this new system." Nixing the income tax exclusion and offering credits was the approach that John McCain favored during his run for the White House in 2008, and it was criticized (falsely) as being the "largest middle-class tax increase in history" by the Obama campaign. We found that to be nowhere near true — but these new proposals would face the same tax-hike criticism. And would their tax credits be enough for families to buy their own coverage, or pay the added taxes? Experts said McCain’s credits would fall short of keeping up with rising premium costs over time, but this would be true mainly for those with higher incomes.

 

And you are shining example of what is wrong with this country. I have said countless times that I would like to see Amendments made to the bill. You are simply condemning it. Paul Ryan has been serving since 1999. Why is he just now showcasing this plan? Why during the 8 years under republican control?

 

 

The CBO lost all credibility when they gave Obama the "it will reduce the deficit by 150 billion" figure he was looking for regarding the nightmare Obamacare bill. They were accessories to this criminal, lie through your teeth enterprise. I don't believe anything that comes out of the CBO anymore.

[OCinBuffalo]

The CBO lost all credibility when they gave Obama the "it will reduce the deficit by 150 billion" figure he was looking for regarding the nightmare Obamacare bill. They were accessories to this criminal, lie through your teeth enterprise. I don't believe anything that comes out of the CBO anymore.

Not really. The CBO is a slave to the concept of "garbage in, garbage out".

 

We beat the GIGO in software by creating things like edits, validation, and business rules.

 

I would like to see these same principles established for the CBO, so that they wouldn't be so susceptible to GIGO.

 

In fact, I would like to see them establish their own modeling methodology, or a more disciplined one, so that political wonks can just give them whatever self-fulfilling prophetical data and models they want. If the CBO was to establish it's own structure, then we could get apples to apples comparisons of ideas.

 

Don't hold your breath though.

[pBills]

Here's a solution.

 

Will you now stop saying the right has offered no solutions?

 

Of course you won't.

 

 

 

As I stated earlier, why didn't he get this plan out there in the 8 years prior to Obama or at any other time since 1999?

 

I am a shining example of know what the f I am talking about when it comes to health care, because I am involved in the business of health care on a daily basis.

 

You think there is a top down, one size fits all, solution that the government can provide. You are patently wrong.

 

You think that micromanaging health care from DC is a good idea, when it has already been proven to be sheer lunacy just in the form of Medicare, never mind the entire system.

 

You are the problem with this country because you spend 0 time learning the material before you form an opinion. What amendments are you talking about? Specifically now, what exactly would you amend?

 

The truth is you have no idea, and, your "I would like to see amendments" position, if you want to call it that, is based purely on the fact that you know that health care reform is unpopular, and you don't want to look stupid on a message board.

 

Whatever.

 

 

I am the problem? I am open to hearing ALL sides not just the Democrats side unlike you only listening to the right side of the aisle. No matter what the Dems do their wrong. I have never claimed that I think micromanaging from DC is a good idea too. Usual crap tactic, let's act like people stated things like that nonsense. I also have NEVER that there is a one size fits all solution.

 

I don't care if the bill is unpopular. I have stated if the republicans don't like it offer something else. They did... after awhile. Now, instead of playing F'ing games sit down in the room, be adults, discuss and make changes. You like other dumbasses would rather just throw it all away and start over from scratch knowing for a fact that THAT will never happen.

[IDBillzFan]

As I stated earlier, why didn't he get this plan out there in the 8 years prior to Obama or at any other time since 1999?

Seriously? This is your take on things? The GOP never had any ideas for eight years prior to Obama, so any ideas they bring to the table now are not ideas that are being brought to the table because they're here now and not during the Bush administration?

 

Really? This is what you've got?

 

I think you just out-connered conner.

 

Nancy and her band of flying monkeys didn't have time to read the "healthcare" bill, they sure as hell don't have time to watch some nonsense on the internet (thanks Algore)

Maybe what they should do is pass Ryan's bill so they can see what's in it. Maybe we'll find all kinds of goodies, like, say, everyone in the US has to do whatever's in the bill except the people in congress and their aids who helped write the bill.

 

Seems like that's been a pretty good place to start for others.

[pBills]

Seriously? This is your take on things? The GOP never had any ideas for eight years prior to Obama, so any ideas they bring to the table now are not ideas that are being brought to the table because they're here now and not during the Bush administration?

 

Really? This is what you've got?

 

I think you just out-connered conner.

 

 

Maybe what they should do is pass Ryan's bill so they can see what's in it. Maybe we'll find all kinds of goodies, like, say, everyone in the US has to do whatever's in the bill except the people in congress and their aids who helped write the bill.

 

Seems like that's been a pretty good place to start for others.

 

 

Did they try to tackle healthcare reform in the eight years? Yes or No?

[Magox]

First off, ANY employer can drop your plan. Even before the Bill. Yes, Ryan had pros to his idea however he also had cons... not just a perfect little path that you like to believe is there.

 

From FactCheck.org

CBO says of the bipartisan measure: "Although employers would have the option of continuing to offer coverage to their workers, nearly all individuals who were not enrolled in Medicare would obtain their basic health insurance coverage through this new system." Nixing the income tax exclusion and offering credits was the approach that John McCain favored during his run for the White House in 2008, and it was criticized (falsely) as being the "largest middle-class tax increase in history" by the Obama campaign. We found that to be nowhere near true — but these new proposals would face the same tax-hike criticism. And would their tax credits be enough for families to buy their own coverage, or pay the added taxes? Experts said McCain’s credits would fall short of keeping up with rising premium costs over time, but this would be true mainly for those with higher incomes.

 

And you are shining example of what is wrong with this country. I have said countless times that I would like to see Amendments made to the bill. You are simply condemning it. Paul Ryan has been serving since 1999. Why is he just now showcasing this plan? Why during the 8 years under republican control?

No, OC said

"If you have health care, you can keep your plan and keep your doctor".

Which was a promise made by Obama, repeatedly. The Fact check from CBO doesn't address this part whatsoever. The reality is that already in its first year, the promise has been broken. They also said that premiums wouldn't go up as a result of this health insurance bill and that was a lie. They knew premiums would go higher, they couldn't possibly be that stupid, they lied knowing that they were desperate to garner just enough support from the very same people that will be losing their jobs next week in order to get the bill passed.

 

Well, November begins the repeal process.

 

Did they try to tackle healthcare reform in the eight years? Yes or No?

And what does this have to do with this terrible piece of legislation? Does this justify this abortion of a bill?

[pBills]

No, OC said Which was a promise made by Obama, repeatedly. The Fact check from CBO doesn't address this part whatsoever. The reality is that already in its first year, the promise has been broken. They also said that premiums wouldn't go up as a result of this health insurance bill and that was a lie. They knew premiums would go higher, they couldn't possibly be that stupid, they lied knowing that they were desperate to garner just enough support from the very same people that will be losing their jobs next week in order to get the bill passed.

 

Well, November begins the repeal process.

 

 

And what does this have to do with this terrible piece of legislation? Does this justify this abortion of a bill?

 

 

You would have to be a moron to think premiums wouldn't go up. That is the BEST way for the industry to fight it. Whether you have this bill or not you can lose your doctor. Coverages can be changed by employers, making "your" doctor out of network.

 

Yes, repeal it. Start over from scratch and waste more time. Instead of doing the smart thing and working with Democrats to make amendments.

 

And in regards to my question about whether or not the republicans pushed for any sort of healthcare reform in the 8 years prior to Obama... if they had such great ideas why not use them then? Why not push for reform to help the American people out?

[erynthered]

 

Yes, repeal it. Start over from scratch and waste more time. Instead of doing the smart thing and working with Democrats to make amendments.

 

 

Why were the Dem's in such a hurry to pass the bill? What was the rush?

[Magox]

You would have to be a moron to think premiums wouldn't go up. That is the BEST way for the industry to fight it. Whether you have this bill or not you can lose your doctor.

Ok, then you think Obama is a moron:

 

Listening to Mr. Obama pitch his plan, you might not realize that's how it works.

 

Visiting a Cleveland suburb this week, the president described how individuals and small businesses will be able to buy coverage in a new kind of health insurance marketplace, gaining the same strength in numbers that federal employees have.

 

"You'll be able to buy in, or a small business will be able to buy into this pool," Mr. Obama said. "And that will lower rates, it's estimated, by up to 14 to 20 percent over what you're currently getting. That's money out of pocket."

 

And that's not all.

 

Mr. Obama asked his audience for a show of hands from people with employer-provided coverage, what most Americans have.

 

"Your employer, it's estimated, would see premiums fall by as much as 3,000 percent," said the president, "which means they could give you a raise."

 

[IDBillzFan]

Did they try to tackle healthcare reform in the eight years? Yes or No?

First, Ryan's plan, which addresses health care reform, was available at the same time Obamacare was being discussed. So yes.

 

Second, the Democrats have been in control of Congress for four of the past eight years, so you may want to adjust the sights on your gun there, Skippy.

 

In the end, though, you seem to believe that a really, really BAD plan that makes things worse is better than no plan at all. The only thing more frightening than that is the fact that our country's leaders apparently believe the same nonsense.

 

The consequences of Obamacare don't affect the people who voted for it, so why WOULD THEY care? Typical garbage spewed from the mouths of people who have never, ever, ever had to be held accountable for their decisions.

 

And you're a dolt for defending it based on the premise that no one else was doing anything about it

[OCinBuffalo]

I am the problem? I am open to hearing ALL sides not just the Democrats side unlike you only listening to the right side of the aisle. No matter what the Dems do their wrong. I have never claimed that I think micromanaging from DC is a good idea too. Usual crap tactic, let's act like people stated things like that nonsense. I also have NEVER that there is a one size fits all solution.

 

I don't care if the bill is unpopular. I have stated if the republicans don't like it offer something else. They did... after awhile. Now, instead of playing F'ing games sit down in the room, be adults, discuss and make changes. You like other dumbasses would rather just throw it all away and start over from scratch knowing for a fact that THAT will never happen.

Did you not get it the first time? I certainly don't my ideas from Republicans. I get them from ME. I don't learn a damn thing about this from Democrats or Republicans, I learn by doing my job and reading PDFs from HHS(laughing as I do).

 

Micromanaging from DC is exactly what this is all about. But you don't know that, obviously. Example: We are dealing with "Meaningful Use" right friggin now. A doctor will have to prove that he is "meaningfully using" software in his practice, and he might get reimbursed for buying it...but not if he doesn't do everything EXACTLY the way HHS wants, hence micromanaging his practice form DC. If he doesn't, his Medicare reimbursement will be reduced year after year. The hysterical part is: the standards for all of this have been written by amateurs.

 

Now, after HHS has been scorned on this all over the internet, they are trying to firm up actual standards, leading to even more hilarity. The "talent" of government employees is on full display right here Ever want to know what it feels like to be a team owner and overpay for a player? Read that document, and realize some of these people get paid over 100k of your tax dollars for that work. So what are going to do there team owner? Double down and re-sign Kelsay? "Ensure that we take the measurements we are ALWAYS SUPPOSED TO TAKE...50% of the time?" Morons. Why are we bothering with this idiocy? Yes, tracking smoking in 13+ patients, 50% of the time, is a great way to lower health care cost. Again, Morons. No, its a great way for HHS Ph.Ds to get out of collecting raw data for yet another $20 million "smoking is bad" study. As if we don't already know.

 

You can't claim to love Obamacare, and claim to hate Micromanaging from DC, at the same time. This aspect of Obamacare cannot be "amended" away, because it is literally part of Obamacare's premise. The ONLY choice is to repeal this part of it entirely, and, if you do that, you might as well rip out the whole thing.

 

Incidentally, Obamacare creates a windfall for me. I have every reason to support it personally because it will make me rich. But I don't, because I understand the concept of honor, and the concept of sound quality assurance, cost accounting, and business process re-engineering(and no, I won't change what I call it).

 

Learn about this stuff, pick either: Obamacare or NO micromanaging from DC, and stop wasting my time.

[DC Tom]

Now, after HHS has been scorned on this all over the internet, they are trying to firm up actual standards, leading to even ore hilarity. The "talent" of government employees is on full display right here

 

Please tell me that there's an official document backing that PowerPoint.

 

If not, that's extraordinarily amateurish, even for government work. I could do better - hell, I HAVE done better.

[OCinBuffalo]

Please tell me that there's an official document backing that PowerPoint.

 

If not, that's extraordinarily amateurish, even for government work. I could do better - hell, I HAVE done better.

Nope. As far as I know, this is it.

 

Oh, and don't be surprised if they swap out one PDF for another, without any revision notations.