NPR fires Juan Williams

[IDBillzFan]

she later apologized (i don't believe williams ever has).

What was Williams supposed to apologize for?

[RkFast]

What was Williams supposed to apologize for?

 

Thinking.

[Adam]

What was Williams supposed to apologize for?

There is no shame in apologizing for offending someone- even if the offense was their misinterpretation.

[Rob's House]

There is no shame in apologizing for offending someone- even if the offense was their misinterpretation.

"Never apologize, it's a sign of weakness." -Buddy Ackerman

[Chef Jim]

There is no shame in apologizing for offending someone- even if the offense was their misinterpretation.

 

So far the only people that appear to be affended by his comments are non-muslims.

[Joe Miner]

My problem is that the terrorists wanted to create an atmosphere of distrust, fear and animosity between people, based on stereotypes and ignorance. They have succeeded. By default, what does that mean we have done?

 

There is nothing wrong with fear, but when it controls us, there is a problem- and I am going past whatever Williams said on this.....

 

Really?

 

People are fearful and mistrust those that are different from them based on stereotypes and ignorance.

 

That was caused by terrorists?

 

I think that was around long before our concept of terrorism.

[Adam]

Really?

 

People are fearful and mistrust those that are different from them based on stereotypes and ignorance.

 

That was caused by terrorists?

 

I think that was around long before our concept of terrorism.

You really aren't wrong, but they helped stir things up. All people fear those who are different from themselves- some control it better. If it were easy, everyone would be able to do it......

 

"Never apologize, it's a sign of weakness." -Buddy Ackerman

Actually- that is pretty interesting. The toughest concept for the human mind to deal with is its own imperfection. Apologizing is a very difficult thing to do

 

So far the only people that appear to be affended by his comments are non-muslims.

Those are the people we are hearing from. And they have every right to be offended, just as Williams has every right to say what he did. America still can be great.....sometimes.....

Edited October 27, 2010 by Adam

[Rob's House]

 

Actually- that is pretty interesting. The toughest concept for the human mind to deal with is its own imperfection. Apologizing is a very difficult thing to do

 

I threw that out mainly for comic effect and to see if anyone recognized the reference. I do generally think a public apology is almost always the wrong move when you've offended some one. Especially if you don't believe there was anything wrong with what you said. Once you apologize, you've conceded you did wrong, and the conversation has been reframed as such. If you're clearly wrong though, that's another story.

Edited October 27, 2010 by Rob's House

[3rdnlng]

I threw that out mainly for comic effect and to see if anyone recognized the reference. I do generally think a public apology is almost always the wrong move when you've offended some one. Especially if you don't believe there was anything wrong with what you said. Once you apologized, you've conceded you did wrong, and the conversation has been reframed as such. If you're clearly wrong though, that's another story.

 

I'm sorry if I offended you by having fearful thoughts when I see Muslims on a plane? Would I have offended you less by lying about it?

[X. Benedict]

Summary...

 

Muslim terrorists in civilian clothes attack the US on 9-11.

 

Some people that get on planes today are afraid of people in Muslim garb (even though, not even the dumbest terrorist in the US would telegraph an attack by wearing Muslim garb).

 

Juan Williams admits to being one of these people that holds this sub-rational prejudice.

 

He loses his job at NPR.....where he is paid to rationally analyze news.

 

He gets a much more lucrative job at FOX.....where it is okay to air such prejudices as long as emoting about personal fears comes from an honest place.

 

How am I doing?

[IDBillzFan]

There is no shame in apologizing for offending someone- even if the offense was their misinterpretation.

There may be no shame, but there'd be a whole lot of vagina juice pouring from the sky. We'd ultimately spend every day apologizing to each other because no matter what anyone says in the public arena, SOMEONE is going to misinterpret it and need an apology. We don't need more apologies. We need more people to get a freaking spine.

 

Juan Williams admits he does a double-take when he sees a muslim on a plane and somehow HE owes someone an apology, even if what he said was misinterpreted? Please.

 

I heard Greta Van Susteren pass along a thought during an interview the other night that I have never given thought to, but instantly liked; to paraphrase, "I'm not real big on apologies that start with the word "if."

[Chef Jim]

Summary...

 

Muslim terrorists in civilian clothes attack the US on 9-11.

 

Some people that get on planes today are afraid of people in Muslim garb (even though, not even the dumbest terrorist in the US would telegraph an attack by wearing Muslim garb).

 

Juan Williams admits to being one of these people that holds this sub-rational prejudice.

 

He loses his job at NPR.....where he is paid to rationally analyze news.

 

He gets a much more lucrative job at FOX.....where it is okay to air such prejudices as long as emoting about personal fears comes from an honest place.

 

How am I doing?

 

Oh like condensing a 14 page thread on PPP into 5 lines is difficult.

[X. Benedict]

Oh like condensing a 14 page thread on PPP into 5 lines is difficult.

 

I had a little time.

[Chef Jim]

There may be no shame, but there'd be a whole lot of vagina juice pouring from the sky. We'd ultimately spend every day apologizing to each other because no matter what anyone says in the public arena, SOMEONE is going to misinterpret it and need an apology. We don't need more apologies. We need more people to get a freaking spine.

 

Juan Williams admits he does a double-take when he sees a muslim on a plane and somehow HE owes someone an apology, even if what he said was misinterpreted? Please.

 

I heard Greta Van Susteren pass along a thought during an interview the other night that I have never given thought to, but instantly liked; to paraphrase, "I'm not real big on apologies that start with the word "if."

 

Or the Obama apology. I'm sorry you didn't understand what I meant.

[GG]

Summary...

 

Muslim terrorists in civilian clothes attack the US on 9-11.

 

Some people that get on planes today are afraid of people in Muslim garb (even though, not even the dumbest terrorist in the US would telegraph an attack by wearing Muslim garb).

 

Juan Williams admits to being one of these people that holds this sub-rational prejudice.

 

He loses his job at NPR.....where he is paid to rationally analyze news.

 

He gets a much more lucrative job at FOX.....where it is okay to air such prejudices as long as emoting about personal fears comes from an honest place.

 

How am I doing?

 

Yes, I've heard that line of reasoning. But it only works after your mind has gone through the entire train of thought and the possibilities. It does not go to the heart of the matter of what the initial thought is.

 

But frankly, Williams was probably embelishing his views a bit, because few people can distinguish between Muslim garb, Hindi garb, Budhist garb or African garb. What he likely meant to say is that he gets nervous when he sees a bunch of people from Middle East on an airplane. But that would be racially profiling, wouldn't it?

[X. Benedict]

Yes, I've heard that line of reasoning. But it only works after your mind has gone through the entire train of thought and the possibilities. It does not go to the heart of the matter of what the initial thought is.

 

But frankly, Williams was probably embelishing his views a bit, because few people can distinguish between Muslim garb, Hindi garb, Budhist garb or African garb. What he likely meant to say is that he gets nervous when he sees a bunch of people from Middle East on an airplane. But that would be racially profiling, wouldn't it?

 

I never liked Williams much myself....but in the end, I do see a conflict in terms of editorial voice

 

He was hired to be one of those para-textual voices of news criticism ....that is, someone who deliberates about the news cycle like an ombudsman, and synthesizes it into oversight and digests it into an evaluation of what is going on - Sober, deliberative, and detached in persona and passions.

 

That persona is fundamentally at odds with a lightening fast repartee where he is asked to be the "liberal voice" or the foil/straw position for a network star akin to an Alan Combs(?) role that he's been doing on FOX.

 

 

So anyway.... yes..I do think that one role compromises the other....but, as far as Juan Williams being a metaphor for some big Red vs. Blue thing...I don't much care about as it is about three levels detached from news as news - just a farting contest inside the 4th estate IMO.

[RkFast]

Yes, I've heard that line of reasoning. But it only works after your mind has gone through the entire train of thought and the possibilities. It does not go to the heart of the matter of what the initial thought is.

 

But frankly, Williams was probably embelishing his views a bit, because few people can distinguish between Muslim garb, Hindi garb, Budhist garb or African garb. What he likely meant to say is that he gets nervous when he sees a bunch of people from Middle East on an airplane. But that would be racially profiling, wouldn't it?

 

You "profile" every single person you meet and talk to who you do not already know.

 

You realize that, right?

Edited October 28, 2010 by RkFast

[X. Benedict]

You "profile" every single person you meet and talk to who you do not already know.

 

You realize that, right?

 

Perhaps...but isn't that idea so generalized as to be unhelpful to any discussion?

 

Profiling in the sense that I think he means is that if you see A there is a great chance of B.

 

If you are not screening for B at all.....what is that?

[RkFast]

Perhaps...but isn't that idea so generalized as to be unhelpful to any discussion?

 

Profiling in the sense that I think he means is that if you see A there is a great chance of B.

 

If you are not screening for B at all.....what is that?

 

The thing is, thats not what Williams said. He said that his fear WAS irrational based on the probability of "b". But NOBODY is focused on that.

[ExiledInIllinois]

Maybe because he's not afraid to tell the truth. Peace brought up a very example

 

Political correctness has it's drawbacks, not everything is black or white the way the majority of people believe. Just about everyone believes that something is either 100% right or wrong. The reality is that there are many shades of gray inside of each one of these answers and when Juan WIlliams stated his opinion, he was being honest, he was stating something that just about everyone feels but decides to keep it quiet and to themselves. Well, he said it, and there is justifiable outcry from the one's who feel this could possibly be a bigoted claim and there is a justifiable defense on his behalf, which is that "hey, I get nervous when I see a burqa on the plane".

 

Nothing wrong with that, it's his honest opinion.

 

No surprise that NPR would cut ties with him, as I said they are pissed that he works with FOX and they have a history of being sympathetic with muslims and taking a somewhat hard-line against the Israelis.

 

I agree totally... Look how PC society influences woman to think. Many that get hurt do so because their gut protective instinct is suppressed... Are taught to be "nice" and give people the benefit of doubt with things like: "Oh, I shouldn't think that way... It is racist, nasty or mean."

 

Something has to be said about "protective instincts" over the PC crap.

 

NPR is doing more harm than good.

 

People still have to trust their gut.