NPR fires Juan Williams

[birdog1960]

How are we supposed to HONESTLY say that we don't face an ongoing threat from people that seem normal, but are nuts inside? Sorry, but your "tolerance" isn't going to protect us from these nuts.

 

And, until the cowards start wearing uniforms, how are we supposed to tell who is who? HONESTLY, we can't. And, again, as long as the "moderate" Muslims allow these nuts to hide amongst them in civvies, they are going to have to get used to the occasional civilian casualties and profiling.

i'll bet tim mcvey looked a lot like you or even me. pretty sure he called himself a christian. was from lockport. what did you do to stop him. are you actively trying to break up american hate groups capable of similar terror? do you think we should have profiled all western ny christians after oklahoma city?

[OCinBuffalo]

What happens is the same as other religions and politics- the whackos hijack everything and are considered to be the majority. Do the terrorists represent the voice of the muslim community? Of course not. Does the wacko that murdered the abortion doctor represent the christian religion? of course not.

 

Do the idiots who wanted something bad to happen to George W. Bush represent the liberals? No. Does the idiot(s) who murdered JFK represent conservatives (might be a bad example), no.

 

The majority of muslims and christian (and I am not a member of either) are very considerate and charitable people. Unfortunately, we hear the wackos more, because that's what the media wants us to hear. This country is bored by good people- they have zero shock value.

 

We haven't done much to stop terrorism either. Our war over their was well intentioned- anyone who argues that is a flat out moron. When we removed Saddam, they wanted a theocracy, but we refused to allow it. After we leave, the insurgency will create the theocracy that should have been formed in Iraq a few years ago- and it might not be as friendly towards us as it could have been, if we didn't originally block its formation.

 

Well intentioned actions are fine, but living in absolutes can corrupt the outcome. By the way- I was completely against removing Saddam, but research shows how close to Hitler he actually was. I hope to never unearth that kind of stuff again.....very depressing that people can do that kind of stuff. If only the world were ruled by four year olds......

The difference is:

 

I have never seen Christians celebrating in the streets when an abortion doctor gets murdered.

I did see tons of Muslims celebrating in the streets the day after 9/11, when not one but 1000s of people were murdered.

 

And yeah, that indicates that Islam has problems that go far beyond a "few nuts".

 

And the idiotic "engagement" strategy has had all kind of unintentional consequences...as well as the benefit of being doomed to fail from the beginning, as I said it would be. You don't negotiate with Dr. Evil. All you accomplish is legitimizing Dr. Evil, and we already have enough Dr. Evils at the UN(see Chavez).

 

What do you mean? Obama has had the Unicorns and Rainbows economic team until just recently, and their "real world"(read: business) experience is precisely equivalent to that of a 4 year old. The stimulus was the equivalent of setting up a lemonade stand...so yeah, 4 year old sounds about right. How's that working out for us?

Edited October 25, 2010 by OCinBuffalo

[OCinBuffalo]

i'll bet tim mcvey looked a lot like you or even me. pretty sure he called himself a christian. was from lockport. what did you do to stop him. are you actively trying to break up american hate groups capable of similar terror? do you think we should have profiled all western ny christians after oklahoma city?

Oh here we go with Tim McVeigh and again, almost 20 years ago.

 

Tim McVeigh did not cite Christianity as part of his manifesto. He hated the government attacking a church, sure, but the fact that it was a church had less to do with it than the fact that they had guns inside and were on private property. McVeigh was about taking revenge on the Government(hence his target was an FBI building) and had little to nothing to do with religion.

 

McViegh wasn't part of a "hate group" unless we are treating government employees as their own race now. We are already treating them as a privileged class, why not make them a race too? This way we can call people who hate the government racists!

 

How many Western NY white Christian males have attacked us in the last 10 years? 0? OK, then 0 profiling. See, it's really easy when you let yourself be guided by reality, and not by political correctness.

 

Make no mistake, I HAVE personally dealt with white supremacist types, and I did actively participate in ending that nonsense immediately. I HAVE also personally helped ensure that a consistent wife beater went to prison, and not just jail, despite attempts by government officials, cops and lawyers to convince her not to testify. And believe me the list goes on. Perhaps you shouldn't make jackass assumptions.

 

In fact, I have done all of these things precisely because I am INTOLERANT. I don't tolerate BS from anybody, regardless of race or creed, and I especially don't like D-bags questioning whether I live what I say, every day, all the time.

[Adam]

The difference is:

 

I have never seen Christians celebrating in the streets when an abortion doctor gets murdered.

I did see tons of Muslims celebrating in the streets the day after 9/11, when not one but 1000s of people were murdered.

 

And yeah, that indicates that Islam has problems that go far beyond a "few nuts".

 

And the idiotic "engagement" strategy has had all kind of unintentional consequences...as well as the benefit of being doomed to fail from the beginning, as I said it would be. You don't negotiate with Dr. Evil. All you accomplish is legitimizing Dr. Evil, and we already have enough Dr. Evils at the UN(see Chavez).

 

What do you mean? Obama has had the Unicorns and Rainbows economic team until just recently, and their "real world"(read: business) experience is precisely equivalent to that of a 4 year old. The stimulus was the equivalent of setting up a lemonade stand...so yeah, 4 year old sounds about right. How's that working out for us?

Those people dancing in the streets were idiots. But let them be idiots- dancing in the streets didn't kill thousands of people- just my opinion.

 

President Obama is much smarter than the 4 year olds he has to pander to in our failing two party system. I could switch the name Obama for Bush and it would be just as true. The American people are the problem- the politicians intimidate them into keeping the status quo of the two party system.

 

As far as engaging world leaders we don't like, I didn't like hearing about that when the liberals brought up Bush's meetings with the Taliban, prior to 9/11 and I don't like it from the neocons now. Our government needs to work with other governments whether they like them or not or whether the american people like them or not. The talk about Bush's meeting with the Taliban was as grossly unfair as the talk about him not leaving the elementary school sooner on 9/11.

[OCinBuffalo]

Those people dancing in the streets were idiots. But let them be idiots- dancing in the streets didn't kill thousands of people- just my opinion.

Idiots, but, if Islam is a "religion of peace", where was their Mullah chastising them for their sick display and demanding that they atone for it, and stating that these people don't represent Islam? Where were their civic leaders the next day stating how embarrassed and outraged they were over this behavior? Were terrorists going to attack the press conference they could have scheduled anywhere, anytime? Please.

President Obama is much smarter than the 4 year olds he has to pander to in our failing two party system. I could switch the name Obama for Bush and it would be just as true. The American people are the problem- the politicians intimidate them into keeping the status quo of the two party system.

When all but 20% of the people are against every major agenda item he signed into law...who is he pandering too? The only answer here is: the unions. IF he was pandering, he stinks at it. He couldn't beat the Republicans on the issues, and then wasn't smart enough to join them. He played it like an amateur, but, given his prior experience and performance so far, isn't it obvious that he is?

As far as engaging world leaders we don't like, I didn't like hearing about that when the liberals brought up Bush's meetings with the Taliban, prior to 9/11 and I don't like it from the neocons now. Our government needs to work with other governments whether they like them or not or whether the american people like them or not. The talk about Bush's meeting with the Taliban was as grossly unfair as the talk about him not leaving the elementary school sooner on 9/11.

The key word there is "governments". Notice you didn't say "pissant crackpot individuals". Venezuela doesn't have a "government", just a dude who is running his country into the ground. Same with Iran, North Korea, and many African countries.

 

I have no problem talking with governments who actually have responsible diplomatic institutions.

I have every problem with applying our responsible diplomatic institutions towards Dr. Evil, and expecting a serious, positive result.

Edited October 25, 2010 by OCinBuffalo

[GG]

You mean assuming a bunch of Jews had hijacked our own planes, flew them into our own buildings, killing 3000 of our own people, all in the name of their religion?

 

Forget the planes. Try navigating the Thruway between Harriman & Suffern without getting killed on a Sunday.

 

If I may misquote Tom Friedman in his meeting with Egyptian students in 2002 when they asked him why people pick on Arabs about terrorism and not Norwegians or some other people. His point blank response was "Norwegians didn't fly a plane load of people & fuel into our buildings."

[OCinBuffalo]

Forget the planes. Try navigating the Thruway between Harriman & Suffern without getting killed on a Sunday.

 

If I may misquote Tom Friedman in his meeting with Egyptian students in 2002 when they asked him why people pick on Arabs about terrorism and not Norwegians or some other people. His point blank response was "Norwegians didn't fly a plane load of people & fuel into our buildings."

Careful, you are about to get walked out on, or fired, for simply stating the truth.

 

I saw some of that meeting I think. Ignorant turds. I got the distinct feeling that "this must have been what doing science was like before the scientific method was refined". Yes, wood is partially made of fire, and burning lets the fire out of the wood. Similarly, the US attacked itself, because we actually wanted to go to these crappy countries, because we want to waste our money on repressing these people, because we care more about harassing Muslims than we do about keeping our cash.

 

I think it's hysterical that with all their assertions about their role in modern science, Muslims don't seem capable of applying the concepts they helped create to their daily lives.

[Adam]

Careful, you are about to get walked out on, or fired, for simply stating the truth.

 

I saw some of that meeting I think. Ignorant turds. I got the distinct feeling that "this must have been what doing science was like before the scientific method was refined". Yes, wood is partially made of fire, and burning lets the fire out of the wood. Similarly, the US attacked itself, because we actually wanted to go to these crappy countries, because we want to waste our money on repressing these people, because we care more about harassing Muslims than we do about keeping our cash.

 

I think it's hysterical that with all their assertions about their role in modern science, Muslims don't seem capable of applying the concepts they helped create to their daily lives.

By that logic, doctors who perform abortions should be fearful of christians

[OCinBuffalo]

By that logic, doctors who perform abortions should be fearful of christians

How do you figure?

[Adam]

How do you figure?

Well, the terrorist that killed the doctor was a christian

[OCinBuffalo]

Well, the terrorist that killed the doctor was a christian

What does that have to do with Muslims being unable, or unwilling more likely, to apply reason to their existence, and come to the conclusion that they, not us, are responsible for their situation, and, if they want to change it, they need to do something besides whine on CNN, or have "meetings" where they make irrational claims?

[birdog1960]

Well, the terrorist that killed the doctor was a christian

i think it's an apt analogy. the murders and bombings at abortion clinics are done in the name of religion. the terrorists don't wear uniforms and are inconspicuous and there has not been a highly visible outpouring of anger from fundamentalist christian groups to stem the threats.

 

how do you think it would play for sanjay gupta to go on cnn and say he gets scared when he runs into a group of fundamentalist christians?

[Peace]

i think it's an apt analogy. the murders and bombings at abortion clinics are done in the name of religion. the terrorists don't wear uniforms and are inconspicuous and there has not been a highly visible outpouring of anger from fundamentalist christian groups to stem the threats.

 

how do you think it would play for sanjay gupta to go on cnn and say he gets scared when he runs into a group of fundamentalist christians?

 

Fundamentalist Christians, especially in groups, scare the beJesus out of me. A more annoying and bullying group you may not encounter.

[birdog1960]

Fundamentalist Christians, especially in groups, scare the beJesus out of me. A more annoying and bullying group you may not encounter.

and others likely agree but if you were a reporter for fox and said this (albeit truthfully) do you think you'd have a job there at the end of the day?

Edited October 26, 2010 by birdog1960

[GG]

Fundamentalist Christians, especially in groups, scare the beJesus out of me. A more annoying and bullying group you may not encounter.

 

I'm sure that could find more bullying and annoying groups if you randomly threw a stone into a crowd.

 

The funny part is that you guys are engaging in the same stereotyping that Williams is doing, as that's your knee jerk reaction. Why? Because the stereotype fits. If you hear a story in the news that an abortion clinic was bombed, your first hunch would be that a fundamentalist group did it. If you hear about a plane crash, your first hunch is that it was blown up by fundamentalists.

 

So don't get high and mighty that Williams was simply saying what 99% of the people's first reaction is.

[RkFast]

Fundamentalist Christians, especially in groups, scare the beJesus out of me. A more annoying and bullying group you may not encounter.

 

 

Try the Brooklyn Hasidm on for size.

[Peace]

I'm sure that could find more bullying and annoying groups if you randomly threw a stone into a crowd.

 

The funny part is that you guys are engaging in the same stereotyping that Williams is doing, as that's your knee jerk reaction. Why? Because the stereotype fits. If you hear a story in the news that an abortion clinic was bombed, your first hunch would be that a fundamentalist group did it. If you hear about a plane crash, your first hunch is that it was blown up by fundamentalists.

 

So don't get high and mighty that Williams was simply saying what 99% of the people's first reaction is.

 

Most stones thrown into a crowd won't hit members of groupthink organizations who by and large survive on bullying. Go to a Christian teen youth group if you want to see bullying. Not beat the **** out of kids bullying...but massive make you feel like crap and ostracize you for having the wrong opinion bullying.

 

I'm not high and mighty about Williams. He shouldn't have been fired and while what he said was biased, he was admitting his bias. He didn't say he acted on that bias. He didn't say he was proud of it--in fact, in the context of the interview, he was kind of admitting that it was an unfortunate reaction he had.

 

Maybe you shouldn't be so high and mighty by accusing me of being high and mighty Mr. high and mighty.

Edited October 26, 2010 by Peace

[OCinBuffalo]

I'm sure that could find more bullying and annoying groups if you randomly threw a stone into a crowd.

 

The funny part is that you guys are engaging in the same stereotyping that Williams is doing, as that's your knee jerk reaction. Why? Because the stereotype fits. If you hear a story in the news that an abortion clinic was bombed, your first hunch would be that a fundamentalist group did it. If you hear about a plane crash, your first hunch is that it was blown up by fundamentalists.

 

So don't get high and mighty that Williams was simply saying what 99% of the people's first reaction is.

Ahh, now you have defined the problem accurately: this is all about their need to get high and mighty. Getting high and mighty is a fundamental tenet of their belief system. Telling them not to get high and mighty is like telling Michael Moore he needs to stop filling his works with lies of omission, it is simply an impossible request.

 

They will never be able to perceive their own hypocrisy. Not as long as their belief system is predicated on the notion that they are morally superior to everyone else because they joined a group, and not due to their own character.

 

Think about it: conner attributes his "intelligence" to the fact that he is a liberal. He actually believes that being a liberal makes him smart. The same math is being used here, just replace "morally superior" with "smart".

[Adam]

What does that have to do with Muslims being unable, or unwilling more likely, to apply reason to their existence, and come to the conclusion that they, not us, are responsible for their situation, and, if they want to change it, they need to do something besides whine on CNN, or have "meetings" where they make irrational claims?

People that do nothing wrong are not accountable for the wrongs committed by others. they are not responsible for the situation.

 

I'm sure that could find more bullying and annoying groups if you randomly threw a stone into a crowd.

 

The funny part is that you guys are engaging in the same stereotyping that Williams is doing, as that's your knee jerk reaction. Why? Because the stereotype fits. If you hear a story in the news that an abortion clinic was bombed, your first hunch would be that a fundamentalist group did it. If you hear about a plane crash, your first hunch is that it was blown up by fundamentalists.

 

So don't get high and mighty that Williams was simply saying what 99% of the people's first reaction is.

My first reaction would be that it was an attrocity. I don't care who did it or why.

Edited October 26, 2010 by Adam

[birdog1960]

 

 

The funny part is that you guys are engaging in the same stereotyping that Williams is doing, as that's your knee jerk reaction.

no, just confirming the fact that a fundamentalist murdered an abortion doctor. no stereotype from me but i admit it exists. and if i was a reporter and objectivity was in my job description and i believed that stereotype, i would think it wrong to publicly admit it. even when objectivity isn't required (like at fox) i'd hold my tongue in the unlikely event that i wanted to keep that job