CBSsports Team Report/4-3 defense

[billsfaninvgs]

It's business as usual: the front office and the coaching staff are completely disconnected as to who they need to keep and not keep.

 

They're selling out to stop the run, thus opening up the passing game for opponents. Their 2 DE's in the heavy front aren't pass rushers and probably won't total 5 sacks this season. So, the pass rush suffers to stop the run which leaves the DB's hanging out to dry. That's great.

WHAT PASS RUSH????

[whodat]

it's a defensive wildcats b*tches.

 

the league is about to change before our very eyes...

 

It's Chan b*tch.

Football is a tough game for tough people. When I walk onto the field I expect to win (except this year).

This week we'll also put Maybin at NT to toughen him up a little bit, put Kelsie at CB to work on his turning and general quickness skills, Poz at free safety cause he's seems confused at MLB. And we're gonna try a few more hail mary's on offense.

 

With the bye week and all, I'm checking this board frequently for fresh ideas. Thanks and be at cha later!

[BillsVet]

WHAT PASS RUSH????

 

Right. Unless of course you expect the opposing QB's to trip over his shoelaces.

 

6 sacks in 5 games, 3 of which came against MIA opening week. Lesson learned here is that a scheme cannot make up for the players, who, in this case aren't suited for the scheme now or in the future.

[Ball'n]

They ran this set up last game...it was new then, not now. It also did not work because we could not set the edge, and Jax ran sweeps and reverses around our ends all day. Although, up the gut we did do better.

[Mike in Syracuse]

If it were up to me I'd go with Stroud-Williams-Troup-Kelsay on the DL. Just move Kelsay to Schobel's spot. Get Maybin's god damn hands off the ground and put him in at OLB with Poz in the middle and one of the other equally dreck LB's on the other side.

[Sisyphean Bills]

If it were up to me I'd go with Stroud-Williams-Troup-Kelsay on the DL. Just move Kelsay to Schobel's spot. Get Maybin's god damn hands off the ground and put him in at OLB with Poz in the middle and one of the other equally dreck LB's on the other side.

Don't like it.

 

Turn back the clock plan: DL is Kelsay, Williams, Stroud, Edwards and LB is Torbor?/Rolled Gold Guy, Davis/Poz, Poz/Ellison. The big hole is Sam in that lineup. Who the hell thinks Kelsay can play that position well?! Can Torbor play that position? Maybin would be a total disaster there as there are more skills involved than simply running around. Bryan Scott might still be the only option there. It's a train wreck.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

This looks like a desperate plan to try to stop the run. Doubtful it will work. Todd Heap will have a field day.

 

I thought the same when I read it. Hey when you are 0-5 going up against a talented team like the Ravens, why not experiment? If they stop the run, well that would at least demonstrate it is possbile.

 

The Ravens are proably another example of a team that is better at every single position on the field, so experiment away...

[dgrid]

OK, this whole Kelsay at OLB thing just sunk in. Guess Im a bit slow, or my brain didnt want to process that information.

So he DID actually play OLB in Jax game?? Was it more of a 5-man line or something? or was he actually playin as a 'regular' SAM role? I watched 1st half of that game online and didnt realize that was the case.

 

I dont get this at all. Are they that short at LBs because of injuries? I mean c'mon, better off playin Coleman or Moats there, or just signing some LBer FA than plugging in an underachieving DE at SAM.

Is it MAYBE to get Kelsay OLB experience for the future 3-4 ?

 

Somebody please explain the Bill's rationale for this.

Edited October 21, 2010 by dgrid

[DanInUticaTampa]

I guess I'll defer judgment until I see them play Sunday, but I can't help but wonder... is this coaching staff just with us? Can they really think that's the best lineup and use of players? I'm betting they all wear shoes with velcro straps.

 

agreed.

[Adam]

I remember calling what we planned to use a 5-2 over the summer.....we don't have personnel to field a good defense and haven't for years.

[dgrid]

I remember calling what we planned to use a 5-2 over the summer.....we don't have personnel to field a good defense and haven't for years.

so play the dam 5-2. play goalline the whole time, fine. just dont play kelsay as a dam 4-3 OLB!

[Got_Wood]

OK, this whole Kelsay at OLB thing just sunk in. Guess Im a bit slow, or my brain didnt want to process that information.

So he DID actually play OLB in Jax game?? Was it more of a 5-man line or something? or was he actually playin as a 'regular' SAM role? I watched 1st half of that game online and didnt realize that was the case.

 

I dont get this at all. Are they that short at LBs because of injuries? I mean c'mon, better off playin Coleman or Moats there, or just signing some LBer FA than plugging in an underachieving DE at SAM.

Is it MAYBE to get Kelsay OLB experience for the future 3-4 ?

 

Somebody please explain the Bill's rationale for this.

 

Yes, we DID play this last game. And we still couldn't stop the run. And I'll tell you why. We had Stroud and Edwards playing the DE positions, and they weren't fast enough to hold the edge against quick RB's and WR's coming out on end arounds. We stacked 5 guys on the line of scrimmage and had only 2 linebackers. If a RB made it to the second level up the middle, there was basically no LB support. Whitner would either take a bad angle or overpursue, and Byrd was 30 yards down field trying to make a clean up tackle on 20-30 yard runs.

 

This scheme is absolutely terrible. If we're going to play a 4-3, play guys where they should be playing. Play a Stroud/Troup/Johnson/Edwards rotation in the middle, use a Williams/Kelsay/Maybin at DE (I think Williams is the most athletic lineman we've got and he can play end in this "heavy" scheme). Use Poz-Davis-Ellison at linebacker. And if we can sub Moats and Torbor in there at LB that will help also. MAYBE try Maybin at OLB to see what he's got, but that's just a maybe. We need to see what he can do, and getting him on the field is important.

[Sisyphean Bills]

Yes, we DID play this last game. And we still couldn't stop the run. And I'll tell you why. We had Stroud and Edwards playing the DE positions, and they weren't fast enough to hold the edge against quick RB's and WR's coming out on end arounds. We stacked 5 guys on the line of scrimmage and had only 2 linebackers. If a RB made it to the second level up the middle, there was basically no LB support. Whitner would either take a bad angle or overpursue, and Byrd was 30 yards down field trying to make a clean up tackle on 20-30 yard runs.

 

This scheme is absolutely terrible. If we're going to play a 4-3, play guys where they should be playing. Play a Stroud/Troup/Johnson/Edwards rotation in the middle, use a Williams/Kelsay/Maybin at DE (I think Williams is the most athletic lineman we've got and he can play end in this "heavy" scheme). Use Poz-Davis-Ellison at linebacker. And if we can sub Moats and Torbor in there at LB that will help also. MAYBE try Maybin at OLB to see what he's got, but that's just a maybe. We need to see what he can do, and getting him on the field is important.

I can't see having a strong side of Poz and Kelsay slowing down anybody.

[dgrid]

Yes, we DID play this last game. And we still couldn't stop the run. And I'll tell you why. We had Stroud and Edwards playing the DE positions, and they weren't fast enough to hold the edge against quick RB's and WR's coming out on end arounds. We stacked 5 guys on the line of scrimmage and had only 2 linebackers. If a RB made it to the second level up the middle, there was basically no LB support. Whitner would either take a bad angle or overpursue, and Byrd was 30 yards down field trying to make a clean up tackle on 20-30 yard runs.

 

This scheme is absolutely terrible. If we're going to play a 4-3, play guys where they should be playing. Play a Stroud/Troup/Johnson/Edwards rotation in the middle, use a Williams/Kelsay/Maybin at DE (I think Williams is the most athletic lineman we've got and he can play end in this "heavy" scheme). Use Poz-Davis-Ellison at linebacker. And if we can sub Moats and Torbor in there at LB that will help also. MAYBE try Maybin at OLB to see what he's got, but that's just a maybe. We need to see what he can do, and getting him on the field is important.

Thanks for clarifying. yeah, no speed at all, just a line of tanks basically.

This is bad situation. I agree w/ all you just wrote, except for maybe Williams at DE, and Maybin at 4-3 DE, I think those are bad. Agree they gotta see what maybin has at OLB.

 

All I can think is they're trying to get players the exp they'll need for FUTURE 3-4 using a 4-3 format, ie- Kelsay OLB, Stroud/Edwards DEs. only rationale I can think. Seems WAY too half-ass tho.

I suppose you could say this is a 3-4/4-3 hybrid. but that's a long-shot.

 

not good. at all.

[nonprophet]

It's business as usual: the front office and the coaching staff are completely disconnected as to who they need to keep and not keep.

 

They're selling out to stop the run, thus opening up the passing game for opponents. Their 2 DE's in the heavy front aren't pass rushers and probably won't total 5 sacks this season. So, the pass rush suffers to stop the run which leaves the DB's hanging out to dry. That's great.

You mean as opposed to the satisfactory pass rush that the Bills' 'D' exhibited during the first five games?

 

Thanks for clarifying. yeah, no speed at all, just a line of tanks basically.

This is bad situation. I agree w/ all you just wrote, except for maybe Williams at DE, and Maybin at 4-3 DE, I think those are bad. Agree they gotta see what maybin has at OLB.

 

All I can think is they're trying to get players the exp they'll need for FUTURE 3-4 using a 4-3 format, ie- Kelsay OLB, Stroud/Edwards DEs. only rationale I can think. Seems WAY too half-ass tho.

I suppose you could say this is a 3-4/4-3 hybrid. but that's a long-shot.

 

not good. at all.

I think you're right; that's why Kelsay isn't playing DE and Stroud isn't playing DT in this alignment.

[The Big Cat]

Why is everyone here operating under the assumption that Kelsay will get a lot of reps at OLB??????????

 

We predominately play nickel, folks. He might be brought in occasionally, but if I had to venture a guess, the vast majority of the reps he DOES get will be to spell the DLine.

[dgrid]

Why is everyone here operating under the assumption that Kelsay will get a lot of reps at OLB??????????

 

We predominately play nickel, folks. He might be brought in occasionally, but if I had to venture a guess, the vast majority of the reps he DOES get will be to spell the DLine.

OK, maybe. I'm gonna watch for this all in Balt game.

 

Like an above poster said, it's really more of a 5-2. Would kinda make some sense, as the 5-2 is sort of similiar to 3-4, and w/ our personel, may be sort of a transitional D formation this yr. So, I wikipedia'd it, FWIW, to educate myself more about the 5-2, and...

 

this defense is most often used in middle school and little league

and

Currently, the Arizona Cardinals use this defense regularly, in addition to their base 3-4

AZ's D sucks.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5%E2%80%932_defense

 

of course, Im not taking that source very seriously. But Im trying to figure out what the heck the Bills' coaches are thinkin. A 5-2 would

1) help stop the run

2) vaguely resemble the 3-4

3) rely on an exceptional secondary, which is/was our strongest part of team.

 

So maybe that's the thought. maybe.

Edited October 21, 2010 by dgrid

[reddogblitz]

I don't have a problem with staying with the 3-4 as long as we start blitzing early and often. What's the worse thing that can happen, they burn us for a long gainer or TD. How is that different than what we're seeing now?