Felser's Article and our FO...

[rpcolosi]

Am I the only person who is a little fed up with people referring to this as the same FO? the scouts and Modrak remain, however 3 of the biggest decisions makers have changed -

GM - Nix

Asst. GM - Whaley

National Scout - Moody

 

granted Whaley should be focusing more on scouting the upcoming opposition and Free Agency, but his football accumen will still be necessary come draft time. Moody also will be a vital cog too. I'm not saying I wouldn't like a few more scouts or a few changes in our scouting department, but maybe that hasn't been the issue at all... maybe the issue has been the decision makers (or lack there of....) and not the data being presented. I guess I have faith Nix is smart enough to see whether the Modrak and these scouts have any sense of what makes a football player.. and I've said it in the past - Modrak had a track record at two other places, what's changed here is, besides Donahoe, he hasn't been on the same page as the guy calling the shots (though their 2001 class was pretty freaking good)...

[Britbillsfan]

Who knows what has happened with previous drafts. For all we know Modrak may have said something like - 'Ngata. Great prospect - some issues but really fills a need. I recommend him. Oh, you want a safety??? Let's see. Well the Whitner guy is probably the closest to what you want, but I really like Ngata...'

 

Of course he could be the chap who pushed Whitner/McCargo/McGahee/McKelvin/Hardy/Ellis/Maybin/Spiller on the FO with his recommendations.

 

Hopefully the changes in the FO will start to replace glitzy prospects with gritty players.

 

BTW - not saying ALL those picks are bad players but they were not necessarily good picks for the needs of the Bills.

[Nanker]

It'll never happen, but it would be very interesting to actually see The Bills real Draft board for the last decade, and have it in black and white who wanted whom and who actually made the call. Marv ran his mouth a lot after his drafts and took ownership of the top picks. I love Marv, but he was horrendous at The Draft. I don't love Russ Brandon, and his regime was flat out atrocious. I have to believe like Britbillsfan that Modrak's job is to rank the crop of new talent every year at each position. The shooter then makes the selection - based on who's available when it's time to step up to the podium. Marv wanted to build the D from the middle with a SS. Unfortunately for him Whitner wasn't Troy Polamalu. He wasn't even Leonard Smith - whom I think was the "inspiration" for that pick. Marv's Bills never got over the hump till he acquired Smith.

 

I also think this year that Nix was set on picking Tebow at #2. Ralph went ape **** when Denver traded back into the first to get him. I think Nix was rattled and then went immediately for Troup - who I believe they would have taken in the 3rd. He certainly would have still been there for them to get him. He might have still been available in the 4th for that matter.

[KOKBILLS]

Marv wanted to build the D from the middle with a SS. Unfortunately for him Whitner wasn't Troy Polamalu. He wasn't even Leonard Smith - whom I think was the "inspiration" for that pick. Marv's Bills never got over the hump till he acquired Smith.

 

I thought it was Henry Jones..I seem to remember Marv bringing up his name a lot after the Whitner Pick...Maybe it was just everyone else bring Jones name up...I can't recall...No matter though...Whitner is not as good as Jones or Smith...Period...

[Chandler#81]

Felser article link, please?

 

 

[Bob in STL]

It'll never happen, but it would be very interesting to actually see The Bills real Draft board for the last decade, and have it in black and white who wanted whom and who actually made the call. Marv ran his mouth a lot after his drafts and took ownership of the top picks. I love Marv, but he was horrendous at The Draft. I don't love Russ Brandon, and his regime was flat out atrocious. I have to believe like Britbillsfan that Modrak's job is to rank the crop of new talent every year at each position. The shooter then makes the selection - based on who's available when it's time to step up to the podium. Marv wanted to build the D from the middle with a SS. Unfortunately for him Whitner wasn't Troy Polamalu. He wasn't even Leonard Smith - whom I think was the "inspiration" for that pick. Marv's Bills never got over the hump till he acquired Smith.

 

I also think this year that Nix was set on picking Tebow at #2. Ralph went ape **** when Denver traded back into the first to get him. I think Nix was rattled and then went immediately for Troup - who I believe they would have taken in the 3rd. He certainly would have still been there for them to get him. He might have still been available in the 4th for that matter.

 

Last Paragraph - What makes you think these things?

[oak tree 12]

Am I the only person who is a little fed up with people referring to this as the same FO? the scouts and Modrak remain, however 3 of the biggest decisions makers have changed -

GM - Nix

Asst. GM - Whaley

National Scout - Moody

 

granted Whaley should be focusing more on scouting the upcoming opposition and Free Agency, but his football accumen will still be necessary come draft time. Moody also will be a vital cog too. I'm not saying I wouldn't like a few more scouts or a few changes in our scouting department, but maybe that hasn't been the issue at all... maybe the issue has been the decision makers (or lack there of....) and not the data being presented. I guess I have faith Nix is smart enough to see whether the Modrak and these scouts have any sense of what makes a football player.. and I've said it in the past - Modrak had a track record at two other places, what's changed here is, besides Donahoe, he hasn't been on the same page as the guy calling the shots (though their 2001 class was pretty freaking good)...

 

bill polian said Modrak is one of the best personnel men around and that is coming from the mouth of thurman thomas who was told this by polian himself and thurman said so on his show last monday.

 

he is getting blamed for all these first round picks where the truth is and was that he was overruled on several occasions by DJ ot Marv and was not in charge of making the picks. he was asked for his opinion but the final call the last 5 years came form DJ or Marv.

 

its common knowledge that modrak wanted Brian cushing last year as our pick and DJ overruled him and took Maybin yet all you guys blame modrak.

 

modrak is a great evaluator of talent has been for almost 40 years and is responsible for building the Eagles and picking McNabb.

 

however the truth of the matter is that he does not make the picks come draft day with the previous administrations. he was the head of collage scouting. you can lead a horse to water but you cant make it drink. thats what happened with modrak the last 5 years.

 

he gave his opinions but did not make the picks. the guy was not the GM the last 5 years the fact of the matter is the bills kept offering the job to him but he didnt want it. he's happy in florida and has been for the last 5 years doing what he does best and thats scouting.

 

yet all you morons blame him for all the first round failures when in fact he did not make the picks.

 

the guy has been in the business of scouting for almost 4 decades and polian knows how good he is and he told thurman as much.

 

however all the morons out there still keep blaming him for the bills failures and you all could not be more incorrect.

[bkc]

Who knows what has happened with previous drafts. For all we know Modrak may have said something like - 'Ngata. Great prospect - some issues but really fills a need. I recommend him. Oh, you want a safety??? Let's see. Well the Whitner guy is probably the closest to what you want, but I really like Ngata...'

 

Of course he could be the chap who pushed Whitner/McCargo/McGahee/McKelvin/Hardy/Ellis/Maybin/Spiller on the FO with his recommendations.

 

Hopefully the changes in the FO will start to replace glitzy prospects with gritty players.

 

BTW - not saying ALL those picks are bad players but they were not necessarily good picks for the needs of the Bills.

 

 

I think you nailed it . Modrak scouts the players. He does not pick them. If dickie j and Marv wanted a safety then he tells them what player best fits what they are looking for. I think the fact that we hit on some late round guys and some undrafted players shows that modrak and his team are actually prepared and put together a quality draft board.

[Sisyphean Bills]

Modrak had a track record at two other places, what's changed here is, besides Donahoe, he hasn't been on the same page as the guy calling the shots (though their 2001 class was pretty freaking good)...

2001 was before Modrak was hired by the Bills.

[Lv-Bills]

bill polian said Modrak is one of the best personnel men around and that is coming from the mouth of thurman thomas who was told this by polian himself and thurman said so on his show last monday.

 

he is getting blamed for all these first round picks where the truth is and was that he was overruled on several occasions by DJ ot Marv and was not in charge of making the picks. he was asked for his opinion but the final call the last 5 years came form DJ or Marv.

 

its common knowledge that modrak wanted Brian cushing last year as our pick and DJ overruled him and took Maybin yet all you guys blame modrak.

 

modrak is a great evaluator of talent has been for almost 40 years and is responsible for building the Eagles and picking McNabb.

 

however the truth of the matter is that he does not make the picks come draft day with the previous administrations. he was the head of collage scouting. you can lead a horse to water but you cant make it drink. thats what happened with modrak the last 5 years.

 

he gave his opinions but did not make the picks. the guy was not the GM the last 5 years the fact of the matter is the bills kept offering the job to him but he didnt want it. he's happy in florida and has been for the last 5 years doing what he does best and thats scouting.

 

yet all you morons blame him for all the first round failures when in fact he did not make the picks.

 

the guy has been in the business of scouting for almost 4 decades and polian knows how good he is and he told thurman as much.

 

however all the morons out there still keep blaming him for the bills failures and you all could not be more incorrect.

I just love how he was an assistant in Philadelphia and is responsible for building the Eagles. However, he's an assistant in Buffalo and has nothing to do with the players we drafted.

 

Some of you try so hard to justify some of the crap that goes on in this organization its laughable.

Edited October 17, 2010 by Lv-Bills

[cale]

DJ is on record as saying they needed a Cover Two safety in order to make the system work. So they reached for a pick for the system. I don't think the philosophy was that of the best athlete available.

 

The irony of course is that Ngata would have made everything work on D. He was a game changer and was even brought to Buffalo for an interview. His mom died before the draft and he became the sole breadwinner of the family. He was highly motivated to succeed.

 

That was probably one of the worst misses in Bills draft history. Probably worst than not taking a QB like Cutler when he was sitting there.

 

I don't hate Whitner. But he is a 3rd round pick at best in terms of production.

 

C

[Beerball]

I just love how he was an assistant in Philadelphia and is responsible for building the Eagles. However, he's an assistant in Buffalo and has nothing to do with the players we drafted.

 

Some of you try so hard to justify some of the crap that goes on in this organization its laughable.

I don't know how that room works and neither do you...but what the guy said was that Modrak doesn't make the picks, he ranks the players. That's his job. We don't know whether he pushed a particular player, in fact we don't know whether that is part of his role with the team.

 

Isn't it possible that the Philly front office was smart enough to listen to the personnel folks and the Bills wasn't?

 

Reading is fundamental.

[BillsVet]

bill polian said Modrak is one of the best personnel men around and that is coming from the mouth of thurman thomas who was told this by polian himself and thurman said so on his show last monday.

 

he is getting blamed for all these first round picks where the truth is and was that he was overruled on several occasions by DJ ot Marv and was not in charge of making the picks. he was asked for his opinion but the final call the last 5 years came form DJ or Marv.

 

its common knowledge that modrak wanted Brian cushing last year as our pick and DJ overruled him and took Maybin yet all you guys blame modrak.

 

modrak is a great evaluator of talent has been for almost 40 years and is responsible for building the Eagles and picking McNabb.

however the truth of the matter is that he does not make the picks come draft day with the previous administrations. he was the head of collage scouting. you can lead a horse to water but you cant make it drink. thats what happened with modrak the last 5 years.

 

he gave his opinions but did not make the picks. the guy was not the GM the last 5 years the fact of the matter is the bills kept offering the job to him but he didnt want it. he's happy in florida and has been for the last 5 years doing what he does best and thats scouting.

 

yet all you morons blame him for all the first round failures when in fact he did not make the picks.

 

the guy has been in the business of scouting for almost 4 decades and polian knows how good he is and he told thurman as much.

 

however all the morons out there still keep blaming him for the bills failures and you all could not be more incorrect.

 

Any proof of any of this? A lot of homers here don't know that many of these people leak info to the press (Pasquarelli is Modrak's buddy) in order to look good when all goes wrong. As in, I would have taken Cutler in 06 when we failed taking Whitner. Ask a Philly fan what they think of Modrak when he was there. And when someone turns down a chance to be a GM in the NFL, it tells me a lot about their work ethic when a promotion is offered.

 

You've got nothing to back any of this up. And somehow we're morons.

[Lv-Bills]

I don't know how that room works and neither do you...but what the guy said was that Modrak doesn't make the picks, he ranks the players. That's his job. We don't know whether he pushed a particular player, in fact we don't know whether that is part of his role with the team.

 

Isn't it possible that the Philly front office was smart enough to listen to the personnel folks and the Bills wasn't?

 

Reading is fundamental.

Reading is fundamental. So is writing. And everything is always written to spin things to cover how bad the guy sucks for the Bills.

 

Regardless. How good is Modrak anyway even if he didn't make any of the Bills picks? So, if he was in charge, he flat out sucks. Period. End of story. And if he wasn't in charge, he has ZERO sway to change anyone's mind. None.

 

So, really, how good is this guy? He obviously either A.) can't pick worth a schitt or B.) isn't convincing enough for anyone to listen to him on draft day.

 

So, really, he's in this front office for what reason? This is now his third GM.

 

But thanks for the help.

Edited October 17, 2010 by Lv-Bills

[Sisyphean Bills]

On Modrak's history, here is a recap of the drafts he has been involved with regardless of team. I'll start with the 2008 class.

 

2008: 10 picks - Steve Johnson, Leodis McKelvin, Demetrius Bell

2007: 7 picks - Posluszny (Lynch, Edwards gone)

2006: 9 picks - Kyle Williams, Keith Ellison, Donte Whitner

2005: 6 picks - Roscoe "Fear the Snow"

2004: 6 picks - Lee Evans

2003: 8 picks - Terrence McGee (top pick McGahee)

2002: 10 picks - Justin Bannan/Ravens, Josh Reed, Denney (top pick Mike Williams)

 

In Philadelphia for 4 years.

 

2001: 6 picks - some depth late in Correll Buckhalter, AJ Feeley

2000: 7 picks - not much, Corey Simon

1999: 10 picks - Donovan McNabb and not much else

1998: 8 picks - William Thomas and Jeremiah Trotter and not much else

 

In Pittsburgh was in charge of college scouting for 9 years.

 

1997: 8 picks - Chad Scott was the top pick, not much (Vrabel went to Patriots to have a career) (Daryl Porter was the guy that didn't stay in his lane for the Music City Miracle)

1996: 9 picks - Earl Holmes, Jamain Stephens was the top pick, not much

1995: 10 picks - Mark Bruener, Kordell Stewart, Brendan Stai

1994: 10 picks - Buckner, Gildon, (Jim Miller went to Bears), another WR strike out

1993: 10 picks - Chad Brown, Deon Figures was top pick (Alex Van Pelt Bills)

1992: 14 picks - Searcy, Kirkland, Steed

1991: 12 picks - Ernie Mills, Huey Richardson was top pick

1990: 13 picks - Eric Green, O'Donnell, Barry Foster, Strzelczyk

1989: 13 picks - Carnell Lake (Tim Worley was top pick)

 

Faneca, Ward, Joey Porter, Plaxico Burress, Marvel Smith, Casey Hampton, Kendrell Bell were all added in the years Modrak was in Philadelphia.

 

Despite all the experience, one might make the argument that the last time Modrak was really (part of) hitting drafts out of the park was back in the early 90's when the Steelers were using ample stockpiles of draft picks to select some core players for their franchise. He did have some part of a role in Donovan McNabb and there were a few other solid picks in 4 years at Philadelphia. In Buffalo, the record while he's been part of it has been very weak with 1 Pro Bowler on the team out of 56 picks.

 

One of the very best talent evaluators in the business? The results suggest that is a stretch, particularly since he left Pittsburgh.

 

It's disturbing that one of the common defenses of Modrak is that "he would have drafted so-and-so". This is a common refrain with respect to Modrak, that after the draft is done and there is a good body of evidence on the record, there is always some report that Modrak would have selected various Pro Bowl players. WTF is wrong with him that he doesn't push all these great picks more convincingly, if that is the truth? It sounds more like cover-your-ass blame ducking, but if it is true then how is it that the guys pulling the trigger are always focused on busts while Modrak supposedly is forced to stand in the corner with a dunce cap and mumble the names of future franchise cornerstone players to himself?!?

Edited October 17, 2010 by Sisyphean Bills

[spartacus]

I don't know how that room works and neither do you...but what the guy said was that Modrak doesn't make the picks, he ranks the players.  That's his job.  We don't know whether he pushed a particular player, in fact we don't know whether that is part of his role with the team.  

 

Isn't it possible that the Philly front office was smart enough to listen to the personnel folks and the Bills wasn't?

 

Reading is fundamental.

If Modrak is doing the ranking, having POZ ranked ahead of Willis is all you need to know about his ability to evaluate talent. 

 

 

Putting Maybin at the top of the pass rushers seals the deal.

 

 

[Sisyphean Bills]

If Modrak is doing the ranking, having POZ ranked ahead of Willis is all you need to know about his ability to evaluate talent. 

 

 

Putting Maybin at the top of the pass rushers seals the deal.

It would be very, very interesting to see Modrak's boards. The suspicion is that his ratings basically give all the name players (Kiper Hypers) virtually the same score, which in essence leaves whoever makes the final decision hung out to dry. It also gives him his wiggle room to claim that he would have selected Rookie of the Year so-and-so after the fact.

[Beerball]

Reading is fundamental. So is writing. And everything is always written to spin things to cover how bad the guy sucks for the Bills.

 

Regardless. How good is Modrak anyway even if he didn't make any of the Bills picks? So, if he was in charge, he flat out sucks. Period. End of story. And if he wasn't in charge, he has ZERO sway to change anyone's mind. None.

 

So, really, how good is this guy? He obviously either A.) can't pick worth a schitt or B.) isn't convincing enough for anyone to listen to him on draft day.

 

So, really, he's in this front office for what reason? This is now his third GM.

 

But thanks for the help.

Sure, blast away, it makes you much more convincing. I'm almost swayed.

 

You don't know.

 

I don't know.

 

I believe this is the most disfunctional franchises in the NFL. That is due to the owner and the people he puts in positions of power. Because of this I don't have a hard time believing that Modrak isn't listened to, but I don't know whether that's the case or not. The Bills draft record for many years has been indefensible. I blame the owner.

 

If Modrak is doing the ranking, having POZ ranked ahead of Willis is all you need to know about his ability to evaluate talent. 

 

 

Putting Maybin at the top of the pass rushers seals the deal.

Sure, if you know that either is the case.

 

Bills suck because of ownership. Below that I haven't a clue.

[Punch]

If Modrak is doing the ranking, having POZ ranked ahead of Willis is all you need to know about his ability to evaluate talent. 

 

 

Putting Maybin at the top of the pass rushers seals the deal.

 

What makes you think Modrak had Poz rated higher than Willis? Willis was picked 11th by San Fran when we had the 12th pick, and by all accounts, the Bills were hoping to take Willis.

[Red]

bill polian said Modrak is one of the best personnel men around and that is coming from the mouth of thurman thomas who was told this by polian himself and thurman said so on his show last monday.

 

he is getting blamed for all these first round picks where the truth is and was that he was overruled on several occasions by DJ ot Marv and was not in charge of making the picks. he was asked for his opinion but the final call the last 5 years came form DJ or Marv.

 

its common knowledge that modrak wanted Brian cushing last year as our pick and DJ overruled him and took Maybin yet all you guys blame modrak.

 

modrak is a great evaluator of talent has been for almost 40 years and is responsible for building the Eagles and picking McNabb.

 

however the truth of the matter is that he does not make the picks come draft day with the previous administrations. he was the head of collage scouting. you can lead a horse to water but you cant make it drink. thats what happened with modrak the last 5 years.

 

he gave his opinions but did not make the picks. the guy was not the GM the last 5 years the fact of the matter is the bills kept offering the job to him but he didnt want it. he's happy in florida and has been for the last 5 years doing what he does best and thats scouting.

 

yet all you morons blame him for all the first round failures when in fact he did not make the picks.

 

the guy has been in the business of scouting for almost 4 decades and polian knows how good he is and he told thurman as much.

 

however all the morons out there still keep blaming him for the bills failures and you all could not be more incorrect.

 

 

Here is my problem with your answers:

 

1.) If Modrak has been so successful in previous regimes, then how can you account for his failure here? He has had 10 years, and how many Pro Bowlers has he been involved with selecting? 1- Marshawn? Who is no longer with the team? We have had 3 different regimes. THREE!! That means Donahoe, Levy, and now Nix must all be thinking Modrak's input is worthless.

 

2.) If nobody listens to him, why keep him around?

 

3.) Where are our GM's, coaches, etc getting their scouting information from. Ok, so let's say Modrak said Brian Cushing is better than Maybin. Or Ngata is a better fit than Whitner. The decision makers- as your contention is that Modrak has no say in pulling the trigger- then follow their own plan and draft who they want to fit their need at the time. BUT WHERE ARE THE DECISION MAKERS GETTING THEIR SCOUTING INFORMATION FROM? The coach does not have the time, nor does the GM. That's why they have scouts in the first place, to compile the information on players to submit to the powers that be in order to make informed decisions.

 

Now, if that information if fatally flawed because of inferior scouting, then it would seem rationale that the scouting department and the man in charge of said department must be in need of a serious overhaul.

 

IF he is so heralded as you speak, I can't see 3 regimes disregarding his advice. And if nobody listens to him, then he should not be earning a paycheck. Furthermore, no matter who is pulling the trigger, the "trigger pullers" are getting the information from somewhere.

 

Last time I checked, Modrak's title is Director of Scouting.

 

4.) Do you honestly think that the Bills product is talented? Heck, everybody's favorite miser, Ralph Wilson, has come out recently and several times throughout the past decade and stated that the team is just not talented enough. Who's responsible for that? Who is doing the scouting on the players we eventually select? Sure, you can blame a decrepit Levy. But that is 1 regime. Modrak has now worked through 3. Yet the product on the field has remained eerily familiar.

 

No, Modrak's tenure should be brought to an abrupt end with the Bills. He has proven nothing. So he scouted McNabb. Yippedty-do-da. McNabb plays for the Redskins. What has Modrak done for the Bills (other than handicap the franchise with poor scouting reports)?

 

It would be very, very interesting to see Modrak's boards. The suspicion is that his ratings basically give all the name players (Kiper Hypers) virtually the same score, which in essence leaves whoever makes the final decision hung out to dry. It also gives him his wiggle room to claim that he would have selected Rookie of the Year so-and-so after the fact.

 

I completely agree.

 

I don't understand the comments made by Polian- then whom is Polian suggesting is responsible for the poor scouting?

 

Bottom line: if the scouting were any good, the players we currently have would be developing. Players taken 4-5 years ago would now be emerging as starters. A core group of guys would be formed. Chris Kelsay is part of the Bills "core"? Seriously? What part of talent are we missing here?

 

I love these Modrak defenders who claim, "he's not the one pulling the trigger". then if nobody listens to him, he does not have value. And where are the decision makers getting their scouting information from? If the Bills choose Whitner instead of Ngata (boner move), then Whitner had best be the most fantastic safety out there, or the scouts are failing the franchise.

 

Looking at our roster, and with the exception of Wood and Spiller, where are our emerging stars? Future Pro Bowlers? That is perhaps the most frustrating thing for me in this bottom out- there is nothing to even get excited about from a future impact player point of view. The horizon is bleak. Desolate.

 

Its the job of the scouting department to meet the needs of the team and front office. 3 regimes, multiple player turnover, coach turnover, and even GM turnover this past decade. Our scouting department has had little to no such change, yet the on-the-field product remains the same.

 

Are the Modrak lovers really this blind?