Jim Kelly

[CodeMonkey]

The problem is everyone seems to fel that RW owes them an explanation. If he wants to keep everyone guessing that's fine. Maybe it's hurting the team due to people not knowing, but the one it's hurting most is him, so again his choice.

I don't believe Mr. Wilson owes anyone an explanation. But can you think of a logical reason to keep it secret if the team is staying in WNY? I cannot. Or are you suggesting Mr. Wilson would knowingly hurt himself and the team by keeping what would be considered by most Bills fans, players, and coaches, great news a secret for no other reason than he feels like it??

Edited October 15, 2010 by CodeMonkey

[flomoe]

Is it possible that both parties, Wilson and the Kelly group, are waiting to see what happens in Washington in the next few weeks? There is a possibility that the Bush tax cuts will be extended and in that bill, there is the "death tax", that was waved till the end of this year. There is also, if I remember correctly, something in that bill that lowers the amount of capital gains taxes levied on the sale of anything with a capital gain.

 

They might be waiting to see what transpires with all of that, and considering that the Marxist wants to lower the boom on anyone making more than $250K/year, it is likely that both parties are waiting till the last minute to make the deal. I would bet that a deal is done before the end of the year if the tax cuts aren't extended completely for all involved. If congress and the Marxist decide to screw the "rich", Wilson has no other option than to sell the team this year.

 

If the regime loses the house and senate in November, there might be a compromise to extend the tax cuts for at least one or two more years and the need to sell right away won't be as necessary. Either way, my guess would be that everyone can look to Washington and the White House as to what happens with the Bills in the next couple of months.

[tonyd19]

He has got to be better than what is in Albany right now. This state is a mess why not give him a chance. 4 years from now if you do not think things have changed for the better the you can vote for the same old same old crap that is in office now.

 

Paladino killed his chances of winning with his comments about gay marriage, That will never fly with indpendents in New York.

[Buftex]

Quick (dumb?) question - What is Kelly's working relationship with the Bills? I was surprised to hear that he works for the Bills in some sort of capacity. Thanks.

 

 

My "inside source", FWIW, at One Bills Drive, told me a few years ago (after TD was fired) that it was announced to the staff that Jim Kelly would "be around" the offices a lot more, working for the team in some un-named, unspecified capacity. They were assured that he would not be a coach, but given very little other information. The presumption was that he was going to be a sort of "apprentice-GM". But now, who knows, maybe Mr Wilson was making an arraingement for Kelly to learn all the day to day ins and outs of owning a team, up close?

 

BTW- doubt my story, but I had at least two folks who "lurk" here PM me at the time, asking how I knew about this. It was supposed to be "top secret". I didn't divuldge my source.

[The Wei 44]

My "inside source", FWIW, at One Bills Drive, told me a few years ago (after TD was fired) that it was announced to the staff that Jim Kelly would "be around" the offices a lot more, working for the team in some un-named, unspecified capacity. They were assured that he would not be a coach, but given very little other information. The presumption was that he was going to be a sort of "apprentice-GM". But now, who knows, maybe Mr Wilson was making an arraingement for Kelly to learn all the day to day ins and outs of owning a team, up close?

 

BTW- doubt my story, but I had at least two folks who "lurk" here PM me at the time, asking how I knew about this. It was supposed to be "top secret". I didn't divuldge my source.

 

Thanks!

[JCBoston]

I do not know Mr. Wilson or Mr. Kelly or any of their business people. So I am just theorizing like everyone else. But until someone who is credible comes forward (preferably the most credible which would be Mr. Wilson himself) and states otherwise, my guess is number 2 above.

 

It's interesting that two people can look at the same exact set of facts and come to different conclusions. I feel that option 1 is more likely, given Ralph's unshaken loyalty to WNY in the past, and the fact that JK has no reason to lie -- what would that gain him?

 

I agree, though, that something is definitely going on here... and wouldn't doubt for a second that the uncertain tax laws might have something to do about it.

[JPS]

Where ever they are, that's my team. It's mentally impossible to switch allegiances.

[ChevyVanMiller]

My issue with all the conjecture around what happens after Mr. Wilson passes is that it is all conjecture still.

 

Why keep plans a secret if they do exist? Why keep everyone guessing?

 

Ockham's razor comes to mind. When competing hypotheses are equal in other respects, the principle recommends selection of the hypothesis that introduces the fewest assumptions and postulates the fewest entities while still sufficiently answering the question. So which makes the most sense to you:

 

1) There is a plan in place for Mr. Kelly and associates, or some other group, to buy the Bills and keep them in WNY. But not publicly acknowledge such a plan in the least which keeps the fan base, coaches, players, as well as any potential coach and player hires questioning the future of the team and tend to avoid making a commitment to a team whose future is uncertain.

 

or

 

2) There is a plan in place that will cause the eventual relocation of the team. But not publicly acknowledge such a plan in an effort to keep the fans coming to the games instead of disowning the Bills immediately which also allows the Bills to stay in Buffalo the entire time Mr. Wilson is alive.

 

or

 

3) There is no plan at all and the future of a 900 million dollar business entity if left to see where the chips fall after Mr. Wilsons passing.

 

Obviously 3 gets discounted immediately as Mr. Wilson is not a moron. So out of 1 and 2, which makes the most sense to you?

 

I do not know Mr. Wilson or Mr. Kelly or any of their business people. So I am just theorizing like everyone else. But until someone who is credible comes forward (preferably the most credible which would be Mr. Wilson himself) and states otherwise, my guess is number 2 above.

 

to any post that works Ockham's razor into the conversation.

[BuffaloATL]

I remember Thurman even gave a date in which something big was going to happen... and it never materialized. However, the writing is on the wall. With Thurman moving back to Buffalo, Kelly's comments which have become more and more direct, Wawrow's recent optimism AFTER speaking with Ralph, one can actually say that the future of the Bills in Buffalo looks better than it has in years, despite this dismal team. If the Bills end up picking first overall, don't be surprised if the move were to take place before the draft. New owners would certainly pay a little extra to have their say in the first pick overall.

 

Exactly what I was thinking.

[clearwater cadet]

Just for the record I'm a die hard bills fan living in another Big market NFL city. So I happen to get NFL news from a different point of view. The topic of Ralph Wilson's passing and relocation of the Bills does come up quiet frequently with all the new CBA talk. I really hope Jim Kelly is on to something, and it's always good to fight the good fight. Though in the end of the day does the league, TV, Media really want an NFL team in Buffalo. Look at how the NFL is changing. It completely different then when we were kids. PSL's, fee for being on a season ticket waiting list, band on tailgating so you to buy more stadium food, $10 hotdogs, etc. Next you will have to buy a bathroom pass, mortage the house if you have to flush twice. Lucky Bills fans haven't really been exposed to this yet. In my opinion, Bob Kraft, Jerry Jones, Dan Synder, etc don't want fans like us games any more, (certainly not anyone who crazy enough to waste time to express their opinion online), they want the business that don't care who the QB or running back are, just companies that buy the seats/ pay the PSL, buy the $100 pizzas (Dallas), leave at half time and figure it a tax write off, what the hell. I Think the only way the team has a chance to stay local is that if the powers that rule the NFL (not the commish) already have plans to use Buffalo to open up Canada. I'm not saying they want to move the team to Toronto, from what I understand it's would be more profitable to have the team based in the USA and tap into Cananda market, due to the antitrust laws, TV contracts/ regulations, and taxs. Not to mention if the exchange rate drops like it did 10 years ago. But really, I mean just image how big the TV contract is now, and how much bigger it will be if they could market a city like LA, instead of buffalo. The owners have been taking every possible cent from the fans as it is, I'm sure they have bigger plans if a team like LA is brought into the fold. Despite what Kelly says, I find it very hard to believe the owners want this to happen. Nobody wants the team in Buffalo more then me, but in my 35 years as a fan/ season ticket holder, I've always been let down in the end.

[Ray]

If you have lived in Buffalo and listened to many intervies with Jim and others you know that something is in place. To answer the question why donn't they just say it? Well, if you are Ralph this is your passion and probably one of the few things that keeps you going in life. Despite what some say he loves the Bills and this has been his baby form the beginning. Furthermore, once something is announced then you have people trying to push him out the door when he wants to be involved.

Obviously JK does not have the money but he has the personality and charisma and face to put a group together to buy the team. We have a stadium, great fan base, history in the league, etc....The team is going nowhere.

 

It will happen when it happens.

[CodeMonkey]

to any post that works Ockham's razor into the conversation.

Heh, I've been trying to do that for years!

[CodeMonkey]

It's interesting that two people can look at the same exact set of facts and come to different conclusions. I feel that option 1 is more likely, given Ralph's unshaken loyalty to WNY in the past, and the fact that JK has no reason to lie -- what would that gain him?

 

I agree, though, that something is definitely going on here... and wouldn't doubt for a second that the uncertain tax laws might have something to do about it.

Tax laws always deserve considerable respect when you are talking about a 900 million dollar sale

But my point to you is, if you are correct, why not come out and say:

Dear Bills Fans:

You have been loyal to my team for the past 50+ years so to assure you of the future and stability of this proud franchise I am proud to announce that upon my passing, plans have been put into place to assure that the Buffalo Bills will stay in Western New York.

 

Unfortunately due to potential tax and legal ramifications I cannot reveal the specifics at this time. But rest assured, the Buffalo Bills will stay where they belong, in Buffalo!

 

Thank you for your continued support.

 

Ralph Wilson

 

What is the advantage to being quiet?

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

Tax laws always deserve considerable respect when you are talking about a 900 million dollar sale

But my point to you is, if you are correct, why not come out and say:

 

 

What is the advantage to being quiet?

 

Alright! Intelligent debate is possible on this board. Nice job!!! At the end of it all it could be 1 and it could be 2.

 

The reason to keep quiet for option two is pretty clear, as for option 1, I say this is a coveted football franchise, there are a number of folks out there with the capital to obtain a team but the opportunities are clearly few and far between to get into the owner's box of an NFL team and the less that is known about the impeding deal the better the ability to protect the outcome.

 

If the arrangement details were released prior to executing the transaction, it may give other interested parties with the means an avenue to attempt to coercing an alternate outcome or to interfere with the legal structure developed to transfer ownership. Maybe details of the arrangement could compromise current operations. In a nutshell, to avoid tampering you keep it quiet.

 

Details of the big deals are rarely disclosed unless they legally must be, and almost never in advance.

Edited October 15, 2010 by over 20 years of fanhood

[Wilson from Gamehendge]

Here's another article in which Jim Kelly touches upon the future of the franchise. At first glance, it seemed to me more of what we already know at this point... that he is looking to put together a group of investors to purchase the team upon Ralph's demise.

 

But, reading the paragraph closely, one can infer that things have progressed a lot further than we have thought. The first example is when Kelly states "if that day comes when he decides, "It's time for me to relinquish the ownership..." "then I do have people in line that will want to purchase the team and keep it in western New York."

Two interesting things about this statement. First, the beginning of the sentence seems to indicate that Ralph would consider moving the franchise before he passes, a concept that has, to this point, been rejected by Ralph. Second, while Jim has been making noise for awhile about a group of potential investors, I never remember him being so declarative as he is when he states "I do have people in line that will want to purchase the team and keep it in Western New York." That suggests he has all his ducks in a row, and has everything set up in his corner for a purchase. No longer is the situation theoretical...he now has his people ready to make a move. Of course, that gives rise to speculation as to who those people are?

Other then the usual suspects, (Rich, Golisano, etc I have no idea who those people could be.) Although, I do think it's interesting that Paladino has been so chummy with Thurman of late. Paladino doesn't have the necessary funds to be a majority owner, but he could certainly chip in as a minority owner. At any rate, unless Jim is completely making things up, which seems unlikely, it appears he has assembled a legitimate group of buyers committed to keeping the team local.

What really grabbed my attention though, is the next sentence. "Because I do not entertain any offers from anybody looking to move the Buffalo Bills from western New York." Whoa... that makes it sound as if Jim is in the position to take offers from potential buyers. Only Ralphie would be in that position... unless a future sale was all but a done deal. Now Jim could have been talking about people making offers to join his ownership group... but he did not say that. Further, it seems unlikely there would be any offers to Jim from foreign investors looking to relocate, since everyone knows he is 100% committed to keeping the team here.

It could have just been clumsy wording on his part, or clumsy writing. But, this article, supplemented by John Wawrow's cryptic comments on WGR about him betting"70-30" the Bills would be here long term after his conversation with Ralph, definitely have me believing that Jim has something in the works and picking up steam.

I was just talking about this recently with somebody else, and besides Golisano, another name that came up was...Danny Wegman. He is a BIG Bills fan, has ties to Kelly, Thomas and the Glory Days players...and not only does he have a lot of money, he is a big local figure. Obviously it would be as a minority-owner, but if Paladino is being considered, there is no reason to laugh at the idea of Danny Wegman. If he and Golisano were to team up, Marvin Sands is another local Bills fan who could help as well.

Edited October 15, 2010 by Wilson from Gamehendge

[CodeMonkey]

Alright! Intelligent debate is possible on this board. Nice job!!! At the end of it all it could be 1 and it could be 2.

 

The reason to keep quiet for option two is pretty clear, as for option 1, I say this is a coveted football franchise, there are a number of folks out there with the capital to obtain a team but the opportunities are clearly few and far between to get into the owner's box of an NFL team and the less that is known about the impeding deal the better the ability to protect the outcome.

 

If the arrangement details were released prior to executing the transaction, it may give other interested parties with the means an avenue to attempt to coercing an alternate outcome or to interfere with the legal structure developed to transfer ownership. Maybe details of the arrangement could compromise current operations. In a nutshell, to avoid tampering you keep it quiet.

 

Details of the big deals are rarely disclosed unless they legally must be, and almost never in advance.

I wouldn't expect details to be announced for all your reasons you cited.

But a "don't worry be happy" statement from Mr. Wilson like I alluded to instead of silence could go a long way.

 

But If I owned a 900 million dollar asset maybe I would understand

I guess we will know when we know

[evilbuffalobob]

Maybe Paladino buys the Sabres and Golisano acquires the Bills?

[GR8PRKN]

My "inside source", FWIW, at One Bills Drive, told me a few years ago (after TD was fired) that it was announced to the staff that Jim Kelly would "be around" the offices a lot more, working for the team in some un-named, unspecified capacity. They were assured that he would not be a coach, but given very little other information. The presumption was that he was going to be a sort of "apprentice-GM". But now, who knows, maybe Mr Wilson was making an arraingement for Kelly to learn all the day to day ins and outs of owning a team, up close?

 

BTW- doubt my story, but I had at least two folks who "lurk" here PM me at the time, asking how I knew about this. It was supposed to be "top secret". I didn't divuldge my source.

 

I have heard that both him and Thurman are "ambassadors" for the bills, for the tune of 250k. I also heard the JK was spending a lot of time at 1BD

[Helpmenow]

Paladino killed his chances of winning with his comments about gay marriage, That will never fly with indpendents in New York.

Doesn't need their votes

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

No it's not a joke. You don't have to view more tan a half dozen or so posts to find someone ripping him. I'm not saying I agree with him, but if you look at things from his perspective, could see how he'd feel that way. The Bills have had many problem over the years, but in the past 20 years, it really isn't because RW was cheap. It was due to him most often in hindsight, NOT spending his money very wisely.

 

This is a joke, right?

 

Their insults?? Don't you mean their hard earned dollars (tens of millions of them per year)?